Black Mesa: Source Delayed

Used to really dislike BMS and its team, they were dramallamas with overblown egos a few years ago, but at this point I don't care. Their media is looking great and I'll judge the mod when I play it, and give credit where credit is due. I do dislike "commercialized" mod teams, but it is a big undertaking. Really I would prefer all that talent to be making something new and awesome, but I can dig a remake of the best FPS of all time. My opinion of it is contingent of what I think after I've played it. Never mind the fact that it'd be almost impossible for them to recreate Half-Life to the ideal I would want it to be, though.

If you think about it though, it is a little silly. They've spent 6 years and presumably many thousands of hours of man-time developing this mod, which is a remake that people will play through once, gush about, and then uninstall. I've played HL straight through at least a dozen times and certainly it won't take more than one play through to appreciate the remake. I'll probably spend a total of about a day of my life playing the mod. Now if that huge, talented team was working on some kickass, innovative or just well-formulated multiplayer mod and spent that much time on it, it's feasible that I and many other people would be willing to spend much more than a day playing it, like any other multiplayer game. Whatever though.
 
I, for one, am still excited for this mod.

I don't know why people still bitch and moan about the supposed redundancy of this mod's development. Would it have been more appropriate to wait a little longer to release a remake/re-imagining of the game? Look at Lucasarts, they just rebooted the original Secret of Monkey Island game with updated graphics and interface. They could've gotten away with selling the game as it was when it originally released, but there's something exciting about updating a classic to be more in tune with today's standard of video game technology.

There are, very simply, some things that Valve wasn't able to do 10 years ago, because of the limitations of the GoldSource engine. With the Source Engine, the amount of detail the BMS team can add to Black Mesa can very well surprise us.

Now I think a lot of remakes of anything are trash, and there are very few that make my approval list (I'm mostly talking about movies right here). A lot of Hollywood remakes are almost purely made for easy money--"hey, it's that horror movie from 1971, but new. lets go see it!" KA CHING! I loathe that kind of mindset.

But with what the BMS team is doing--essentially remaking a 20+ hour long game and releasing it for free--is a very honorable undertaking, in my opinion.
 
I understand the notion that it's a lot of work - most mods are, really - and sure there's some appeal in that they're putting in all the effort, but what I don't understand is why. It's not a matter of making money, and it's not a matter of bringing an old game to more people. I mean, hell, you can get Half-Life 1 on Steam in any number of Valve's packs for dirt cheap, and it runs absolutely fine. It's not a case of a game that doesn't run on new machines, or can't be purchased anymore.

And I have to say, it's pretty ridiculous when you figure that it's been six years, and most of them are talented enough that they could have made something original and less ambitious and released it already. And, you know, even if it does get released, the die hard fans are going to hate it, because it cannot possibly be 100% faithful to the original, because it simply isn't the original, a few people will love it, but I think the general reaction is just going to be "Meh, it's decent."

This just has always seemed like a colossal waste of time to me.
 
Was also looking forward to it, just pretending it doesn't exist works well. If it comes out, it will, if it doesn't, it won't.
 
One wonders had Black Mesa never been announced, whether the single-player mod community could have actually ever taken off. It's a bit of a talent black-hole that looks increasingly like a targeted portfolio. I'm really hoping they get hired. Not because of the quality of a mod I haven't played to be able to judge, but because it might make them generous. You only have to look at the years of 'which enemy should return?', 'where are all the Houndeyes?', 'When will we go back to Xen' style threads, on this and other forums, to realise that the demand is there for single-player mods with this kind of classic content...

With the HL1 enemies, props, textures, weapons and the rest added into the mix, Source single player modding, by small teams looking to create something with a story could really get a shot in the arm. Without it, there's always going to be this massive gap in the lore of the world and the variety of the gameplay that asks to be filled by the team expanding to include the AI guy, the modeller etc. I'm no expert, but I think as soon as those people are added into the mix, SP mods seem to just die.
Captain M4d said:
But with what the BMS team is doing--essentially remaking a 20+ hour long game and releasing it for free--is a very honorable undertaking, in my opinion.
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I doubt Half-Life 1 has ever taken anyone 20 hours to complete, but I think it's going to be very interesting what Black Mesa's play time will be like. Even with all the reinterpretation they're doing, I would have thought that a Half-Life veteran is going to be able to sleep-walk the game if they're not willing to stop and appreciate the craft of the mod. I fancied a quick run through of the original this weekend, set the game to 'normal' and emerged the other side in less than five hours. Now, it'll be my fault if I play Black Mesa quite so agressively, but it makes you wonder.
 
Stuff happens, whatever. I still will play it not once, not twice, but probably dozens of times when it comes out.

All the people that are disappointed need to go out and live life, I don't spend every day checking to see if it's out, so much that I didn't even realize it's been six years in development.

Soldier on BMS team.

Fun fact: It's been 7 months since I've logged on, hehe.
 
Yorick said:
I understand the notion that it's a lot of work - most mods are, really - and sure there's some appeal in that they're putting in all the effort, but what I don't understand is why. It's not a matter of making money, and it's not a matter of bringing an old game to more people.

And I have to say, it's pretty ridiculous when you figure that it's been six years, and most of them are talented enough that they could have made something original and less ambitious and released it already.

This just has always seemed like a colossal waste of time to me.
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You sound like one of those fagets that hang around art boards whining, "OH, WHY DO THEY WASTE THEIR TALENT ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS?"

Newsflash, nobody on that team gives a shit what you think is a colossal waste of time. Ultimately, the mod will be released despite being plagued with Valve time, people will download it and probably have a good time with it. The team will at least be remembered as having done something, whether or not it turns out to be successful or enjoyed.

Meanwhile, Yorick will be a nobody bitching on a forum about how other people use their talent.
 
Darkside55 said:
You sound like one of those fagets that hang around art boards whining, "OH, WHY DO THEY WASTE THEIR TALENT ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS?"

Newsflash, nobody on that team gives a shit what you think is a colossal waste of time. Ultimately, the mod will be released despite being plagued with Valve time, people will download it and probably have a good time with it. The team will at least be remembered as having done something, whether or not it turns out to be successful or enjoyed.

Meanwhile, Yorick will be a nobody bitching on a forum about how other people use their talent.
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Your words are so cold they briefly froze my retinas.
 
Darkside55 said:
You sound like one of those fagets that hang around art boards whining, "OH, WHY DO THEY WASTE THEIR TALENT ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS?"

Meanwhile, Yorick will be a nobody bitching on a forum about how other people use their talent.
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someone should speak the truth for everyone, the way mods are getting created/the time they spend on it...it's not like old days. maybe carmack was right about complexity of tools/technology we use today, who knows. people today try to create something to get hired/or something visually good - what happened to days when modding was fun, and a hobby for many.

just look at moddb, search through mods - they're full of shit: remakes, recreations, zombie mods, wannabe mods/counter-strike clones/and worst of all, mods who use stolen content from other games/mods. the list could go on (not even going to talk about how retarded moddb community is).

there was a bold line between industry and modding, now it's gone. it's not about devs not releasing their tools, but the way modding/mods turned into. i remember having great time when playing hl1 mods, i played many, many mods/addons (i lost the count) - i was laughing at people spending their money on commercial games, and missing fun time/experience I had in mods. i miss old days.
 
^ Truth. Mods either require way too much production value these days or the modders give up because they look like utter shit. Total conversions are a dying art and it's sad to see.
 
Reginald said:
ITT HL2.net staff do not like Black Mesa: Source.
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I've come to the conclusion admins on any forum don't like anything it makes them hip and cool or something.

Yorick said:
This just has always seemed like a colossal waste of time to me.
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Well it isn't a colossal waste of time for the people working on it otherwise they would have stopped working on it a long time ago. Even Ennui makes the same argument "oh they've spent so long and I'd only play it for a day lols" who cares what you'll do when it's released? They are the ones making the mod and not you.
 
Barnz said:
someone should speak the truth for everyone, the way mods are getting created/the time they spend on it...it's not like old days. maybe carmack was right about complexity of tools/technology we use today, who knows. people today try to create something to get hired/or something visually good - what happened to days when modding was fun, and a hobby for many.

just look at moddb, search through mods - they're full of shit: remakes, recreations, zombie mods, wannabe mods/counter-strike clones/and worst of all, mods who use stolen content from other games/mods. the list could go on (not even going to talk about how retarded moddb community is).

there was a bold line between industry and modding, now it's gone. it's not about devs not releasing their tools, but the way modding/mods turned into. i remember having great time when playing hl1 mods, i played many, many mods/addons (i lost the count) - i was laughing at people spending their money on commercial games, and missing fun time/experience I had in mods. i miss old days.
Click to expand...

Amen... this is all true and well said. I don't feel so gloomy though. Things are not like they used to be, but there are still many modders out there doing it because they enjoy it, not to attract industry attention. Admittedly they are becoming much more rare. The indie game community is thriving though because of efficient content delivery mechanisms like Steam and that's a joy to see. I don't think modding is doomed, in fact I think as the bar is raised by the industry in terms of content quality (hi poly models etc) the real kind of modder (looking to create an engaging, fun experience for free as their primary motivation) will just have to compensate by having better gameplay. Sure mass consumers and console kiddies aren't very open to playing games with previous-gen graphics but many PC gamers are and mods are PC gaming's dominion.

I do miss the good ol days too though :( the general attitude of modders has certainly shifted.
 
I'm disappointed, but not surprised - it has been dragging on for a long time. Good luck to the team - I hope they can eventually deliver it, and I'll be waiting for it to be available for download. It was always an ambitious task, and it's clearly much more ambitious than they ever imagined, but I still think it will be great when they release it.

Besides, as already said, it will keep us going until we hear something from Valve that isn't a new TF2 game mode/add-on/dlc or Left4Dead 3.
 
Darkside55 said:
You sound like one of those fagets that hang around art boards whining, "OH, WHY DO THEY WASTE THEIR TALENT ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS?"

Newsflash, nobody on that team gives a shit what you think is a colossal waste of time. Ultimately, the mod will be released despite being plagued with Valve time, people will download it and probably have a good time with it. The team will at least be remembered as having done something, whether or not it turns out to be successful or enjoyed.

Meanwhile, Yorick will be a nobody bitching on a forum about how other people use their talent.
Click to expand...

Congratulations on being a complete tool, as per usual. And no, that analogy is completely retarded. If someone is making art, that's a completely different thing. This is more like taking a sketch that someone else did, tracing it, and adding colour. Sure it's a fine way to spend your time, like masturbating in a pile of jello, but it's not like you created something that's your own.
 
If someone is making art, that's a completely different thing.
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No, it isn't a different thing. It's the same thing when someone makes fanart of someone else's creation. You still created it. "Oh, you didn't make Half-Life, so completely redoing all the levels in the source engine, creating your own models, scripting the scenes, making new soundfiles, etc. isn't creating something that's your own." Do you realize how you sound right now?

And he says I'm the tool.
 
You're both tools.
 
Darkside55 said:
No, it isn't a different thing. It's the same thing when someone makes fanart of someone else's creation. You still created it. "Oh, you didn't make Half-Life, so completely redoing all the levels in the source engine, creating your own models, scripting the scenes, making new soundfiles, etc. isn't creating something that's your own." Do you realize how you sound right now?

And he says I'm the tool.
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You didn't say "fanart", you said "art". And being your own creation is not the same thing as being your own vision.

And yes, you're the tool. You should get it tattooed on your forehead.
 
I see Yorick as a corkscrew, Darkseid more of a lathe.

BMS, where for art thou? =()
 
Thanks for that comment Glenn a few pages back. I for one can't wait for this. Why are people complaining about it, they are bringing a defining 11 year old game into the 21st century, by giving the same graphics and effects as Valve's latest games, giving it more up-to-date playability. I for one can't stand Half-Life's graphics etc now.

Its funny that so many can criticize just for the sake of criticizing HAHA. Give them a break they are doing a good service.
 
Yorick said:
You didn't say "fanart", you said "art". And being your own creation is not the same thing as being your own vision.
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Are...are you just arguing for the sake of arguing right now or do you have to prove that you're the dullest tool in the shed? Hurr durr, fanart isn't art, herp derp, making your own vision of something isn't creating it, derpy derp.

Anyway, you're right--I didn't say fanart in the beginning, I said you were like one of those guys on art boards bitching about what other people do with their time and talent, and how you think it's all a big waste and they should do something else.

I only mentioned fanart because you missed the analogy. Somehow, because OH MY FUCKING GOD DID YOU GUYS HEAR? THE BMS TEAM DIDN'T MAKE HALF-LIFE IT TOTALLY ISN'T THEIR CREATION, somehow me telling you that you're bitching about what other people do with their time doesn't apply. But even when you twist it around and say, "No it's different because you create art and they didn't create Half-Life!" it still applies, because even if they didn't create the initial thing, they still CREATED the props used in the mod, they wrote code for it, and they made soundfiles. You can argue all the semantics bullshit you want about "visions aren't creations" (hurf durf) but the meaning of 'creating' still applies here. They created something. It's based on something else, but they still created it.

Goddamn now that I think about it you really don't even understand that what you said about taking someone's sketch and throwing some inks and colors on it isn't creating it, what a boatload of fuck that is. I did some collaborations with someone once; my sketches and their inks and colors, and never once did I think, "Oh, they didn't help create this, they just threw some fucking color on it."

Jesus I didn't even process it in my last reply, but goddamn, you're a twat. Fuck, you're dense. You notice I'm only a "tool" to people who deserve it, right?
 
Why are you people getting so worked up over a mod that you are not involved with?
You are not gaining nor losing anything. Whether they release it or not. Who gives a shit what these people waste their time on? It's theirs to waste.
For ****s sake, are you that bored?
 
TwwIX said:
Why are you people getting so worked up over a mod that you are not involved with?
You are not gaining nor losing anything. Whether they release it or not. Who gives a shit what these people waste their time on? It's theirs to waste.
For ****s sake, are you that bored?
Click to expand...

You are on a gaming forum and you'd ask that question? Lol.
 
Yorick said:
lol @ darkside getting ridiculously heated.
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Oh wow.

Yorick, who I previously respected quite a bit. Using the "It's the internet, calm down lol" argument. Yorick.

Oh wow.

...
 
Corp. Sheepo said:
Oh wow.

Yorick, who I previously respected quite a bit. Using the "It's the internet, calm down lol" argument. Yorick.

Oh wow.

...
Click to expand...

No, you know, I just don't see the point in responding when that's the attitude he's going to take. I feel like my argument is perfectly valid and I've generally tried to explain myself in a reasonable way (you know, for me). But that barrage is just a mess of anger that I don't even feel like digging through.

I still maintain that Black Mesa is a total waste of everyone's time.
 
Yeah, that's exactly what I thought reading that post Sheepo.

Yorick, you don't look more reasonable next to a hot-tempered Darkside, you're just making yourself look like a twat trying to act like you're "above" all this when you clearly aren't.

:|

Really I'm quite proud of being on the HL2net staff seeing how mature we are all.
 
Yorick said:
Brad, I wrote that before I knew who you were. Let me amend it by saying **** off.
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Absolutely no need to go trolling Brad like that, I suggest you go take a long walk because that's unacceptable. You have to abide by the same rules the rest of the forum does.
 
For all you god damn naysayers I have only one thing to say - cooperative campaign.

Besides, I don't really understand how can you say that they didn't put any creativity into it. Have you actually read anything about it, about its new features, facegen and so on?

Oh, I forgot, it's cool to be a hater today...
 
We don't hate. We're apathetic to this redundant vaporware mod. We're just sharing our apathy.
 
Ennui said:
Yorick, you don't look more reasonable next to a hot-tempered Darkside, you're just making yourself look like a twat trying to act like you're "above" all this when you clearly aren't.
Click to expand...

Not caring that much =/= taking the high road.

It was off subject and into personal attacks on both sides. There's no need of that. I'm not going to apologise, because it's not like I'd mean it, but I see no reason to continue the argument, k?

Hectic Glenn said:
Absolutely no need to go trolling Brad like that, I suggest you go take a long walk because that's unacceptable. You have to abide by the same rules the rest of the forum does.
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It's not trolling. If he stays here I'm sure it's only a matter of days before he's banned. He has pulled shit at other forums that even I consider unacceptable. It may be unwarranted, but only as far as hl2.net goes.
 
Ah, Yorick, it's good to see the old, "Whatever, I don't care--despite my previous defense of my position--and I can't defend my argument so I'm going to drop out whilst still claiming that I believe in said argument" escape is still alive and well. Seeing that kind of schoolyard obstinance makes me feel all nostalgic. And throwing in that I'm "getting too heated" for you to continue is a nice touch...even though everyone who didn't just join the forum yesterday knows that I'm rarely ever actually angry at someone when I argue--even if they are being a bit twatish; I just have an immense love for ALLCAPS and the propensity to swear like a Tourette's-afflicted sailor. To my recollection, only a single member of this forum has ever made me get too heated in arguments, and it isn't you. ;)

Good run, though. *Pats Yorick on the back* See you next controversial news post. :cheers:

barker_s said:
For all you god damn naysayers I have only one thing to say - cooperative campaign.
Click to expand...
I did not know about this. Awesome. I wonder how it's going to work; can't have two Gordon Freemans (Freemen?) running around. Maybe you get to play as the security guards or the scientists?

Oh, I forgot, it's cool to be a hater today
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2wrkbc3.jpg
 
I thought you both were sensible people! ;(

I feel so dirty...


But, the wait is getting a little ridiculous. I've lost interest, though I will still play it, it's beginning to look like DN;F
 
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