Blizzard’s Reaction to Gay Guilds an “Unfortunate Mistake”

[CptStern]

"Back in early February, we reported that Blizzard sent Sara Andrews of Tennessee an email warning her against trying to recruit for her gay-friendly World of Warcraft guild because it violated the company’s anti-harassment policy. Andrews wrote Blizzard back, saying she wasn’t insulting anyone. Blizzard replied that her actions could incite others to harass players.

Lambda Legal, the country’s oldest and largest legal group dedicated to gay and lesbian civil rights’ protection, got involved and contacted Blizzard, explaining groups for possible litigation. Here’s the crux of their argument:

Although Blizzard is well within its rights to insist that players avoid referring to other gamers in an “insulting manner,” Blizzard cannot issue a blanket ban on any mention of sexual orientation or gender identity.

Blizzard began to cave and withdrew the warning. The company’s worldwide customer service contacted Ms. Andrews and said the action against her was an “unfortunate interpretation” of current policies. In fax sent yesterday, Blizzard acknowledged that “the initial reaction to Ms. Andrews’ in-game announcement of a LGBT-friendly guild was, quite frankly, an unfortunate mistake.”

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/breaki...-gay-guilds-an-unfortunate-mistake-159536.php



good to see blizzard coming clean and admitting their mistake ...even if they had no choice what with lawyers waiting to file discrimination suits


here's the entire press release

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/lambdalegalletterfromblizzard1.jpg

 

[Gray Fox]

Wait does that mean that you can have an only hetro guild also.

 

[Steve]

Heh, well, they could have denied all knowledge.

Wait does that mean that you can have an only hetro guild also.

Of course not. That's DISCRIMINATION. Psh. At least I'm sure that's what someone would say.

 

[CptStern]

Wait does that mean that you can have an only hetro guild also.

they did NOT have a gay only guild ...she was warned because she was recruiting for members who were "gay positive" but NOT necessarily gay ..they allow all walks of life


here read these threads


http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=99999&highlight=blizzard

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=100564&highlight=blizzard

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=100686&highlight=blizzard

 

[dream431ca]

Well, Blizzard didn't like it because it brings hate to WoW (And what I mean by that is, is people who do not like gay's or lesbians or anything like that are going to be really angry). But Human rights says it's just fine..and personally I see absolutly no problem with gay people or lesbians playing a game in the same guild or group. It's just rediculous.

 

[VirusType2]

Some annoying child kept shouting horrible rap poems in Iron forge. A long, bother everyone else type spam fest of horrible poems, so I shouted, "Poems are gay" and I was banned for like 72 hours. And she threatened my life, but I was banned for saying the word "gay" on grounds of "sexual orientation" Thats ****ing gay dude.

Who knew that the word gay didn't mean "happy" last time I looked in the dictionary it was. But threatening someone's life and spamming everyone is completely acceptable.

****ers.

 

[Gray Fox]

they did NOT have a gay only guild ...she was warned because she was recruiting for members who were "gay positive" but NOT necessarily gay ..they allow all walks of life


here read these threads


http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=99999&highlight=blizzard

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=100564&highlight=blizzard

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=100686&highlight=blizzard

I'm sorry I misunderstood.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Leave it to Blizzard to be vaginas. They're trying to protect their gay gamers, they weren't discriminating against them. There'd be a buncha dumb 13 year olds sending Blizzard emails about their hatred for gays and all that crap and how they want them all banned from the game.

And let's not forget its a game. People don't need to know your sexual orientation.

 

[CptStern]

yes but the point was that they punished her as a way of protecting her ..read this

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=99999&highlight=blizzard

 

[JNightshade]

I dunno. The reason you can't have a "straight guild" is pretty much the same as you can't have a "white guild"- straight people are in the majority, so it's percieved as being oppressive. And anyway, good for Blizzard, I say. As long as it's not hurting themselves/others, people should be able to do whatever the hell they want (online and off).

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Who knew that the word gay didn't mean "happy" last time I looked in the dictionary it was. But threatening someone's life and spamming everyone is completely acceptable.

At least cracking down on homophobia is a step in the right direction for online gaming.

With luck, other idiocy will be next.

 

[Razor]

Leave it to Blizzard to be vaginas. They're trying to protect their gay gamers, they weren't discriminating against them. There'd be a buncha dumb 13 year olds sending Blizzard emails about their hatred for gays and all that crap and how they want them all banned from the game.

And let's not forget its a game. People don't need to know your sexual orientation.

Agreed 100%, why should it matter what your sexual orientation is, you should be free to enjoy any guild you want. I know it was just a woman setting up a guild to bring gay members of the WOW community together, but i think it would be better for everyone if the gay members played alongside straight members of the community, sexuality shouldn't come into it.

But then...as long as the guilds aren't anti-anything, they should be allowed to make up there own rules for joining.

 

[VirusType2]

At least cracking down on homophobia is a step in the right direction for online gaming.

With luck, other idiocy will be next.

Of course I didn't enjoy being banned, but I respected their decision to do so, and I am pleased that they are doing something to keep the game clean. Its a game, its for having fun. I didn't say poems are for fags! Or anything derogitory of gays, but fair enough. Banned.


Let me tell you, I can't count how many hundreds of times I got in a shouting match with other players on Phantasy Star Online, and no moderator ever stepped in and did anything, and the situations always got way out of hand.


Admitedly, me saying poems are gay is about as immature as possible. But thats the type of thing I grew up saying as a kid. Kids have an excuse for not being politically correct ( they are kids ), Kids are they biggest enemy of gays, or at least thats what I've heard someone say and I tend to agree with it, hence the harsh incorrectness of the phrase in question. Kids invented "thats gay!"

As a cool kid trying to avoid being called a nerd, what other alternatives for adjectives do kids have?


Poems suck?
Poems blow?
Poems are gay.

These are things many many kids have grown up saying, becuase they are not exactly swears, but they are as hardcore as possible without swearing.

Teh cool kids.

Im not gay, so Im not sure, but I don't think a gay person would be offended by someone saying "poems are gay." I would think they might laugh, and think whatever they think, without so much as saying anything. All the gay people I have met seem very tolerant and nice.


Instead of saying something like, "I think your poems are not very good, and I don't think anyone else really wants to hear them", in retrospect, that may have worked much better, but I was sort of playing around with her, stooping to her level and speaking in a manner in which i knew she would understand.


I don't even think peoms are gay or suck or blow. So maybe I need to try better to say what I mean, and to leave the child-like adjectives behind me.


(What was that thing Stern Posted? 30 no-no's for gamers over 30?)

lol



Instead, a kid could have said to that rhyme spammer:
/y You Suck!

That would have better described his/her rhyme skill


And that would have been perfectly fine. After all sucking dick is not nearly is bad as being gay. Is it bitch?


Im only kidding with you guys.




Laff!
-v

 

[CptStern]

Agreed 100%, why should it matter what your sexual orientation is, you should be free to enjoy any guild you want. I know it was just a woman setting up a guild to bring gay members of the WOW community together, but i think it would be better for everyone if the gay members played alongside straight members of the community, sexuality shouldn't come into it.

But then...as long as the guilds aren't anti-anything, they should be allowed to make up there own rules for joining.

I've posted this a number of time in 4 seperate threads:

it is NOT a gay only guild ..it's a normal guild that ALLOWS openly gay members ..but they have straight members as well ..they were NOT reprimanded for having a gay only guild.

 

[DreamThrall]

I've posted this a number of time in 4 seperate threads:

it is NOT a gay only guild ..it's a normal guild that ALLOWS openly gay members ..but they have straight members as well ..they were NOT reprimanded for having a gay only guild.

Just to expand on this a bit, because some people don't quite get it yet:

The idea behind something like this is to create a friendly playing environment for GLBT players, as well as GLBT-friendly players where they wouldn't have to deal with all the idiot 12 years calling things "gay" and other players "fags" every 10 seconds.

 

[DeusExMachina]

I know its a gay-friendly guild. But I'm saying, other people who aren't apart of the guild aren't so friendly.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

So why address the symptom (or, more specifically, the medicine) and not the actual disease?

The sexuality-mentioning group would not need to exist if it weren't for jackass children.

Remove the idiots, and there will be no need for an idiot-free guild.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Great...

So in a fantasy world someone bring a real life issue into this fantasy world...one which is ighly controversial and internet flame bait. Blizzard steps in to stop a snowball effect and is attacked for it. What if this guild was recruiting for people who like to have sex with animals? Nope...it wouldn't be allowed but because those people are gay and have lawyers to back them up it's alright. Whether or not it broke the rule it doesn't matter...they are gay and your not allowed to discriminate against them in any way whether or not they are breaking the rules everyone else has to follow. I guess they are the exception.

GG America.

 

[DeusExMachina]

So why address the symptom (or, more specifically, the medicine) and not the actual disease?

The sexuality-mentioning group would not need to exist if it weren't for jackass children.

Remove the idiots, and there will be no need for an idiot-free guild.

Unfortunately, most of the paying members are idiots and Blizzard needs those idiots money.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I doubt the hardcore multiplayer idiots have enough backbone to boycott their game of choice because they can't casually swear.

Blizzard steps in to stop a snowball effect and is attacked for it. What if this guild was recruiting for people who like to have sex with animals?

Way to ignore half the posts in this thread AND compare gay people to animals.

FAIL.

 

[kirovman]

Remove the idiots?

Then who is a man to whack with his cane, whilst walking through the centre of town wearing his bowler hat?

 

[Sulkdodds]

So in a fantasy world someone bring a real life issue into this fantasy world...

This part of argument even applicable on RP servers.
Where everyone is a female night elf lesbian anyway, so...

 

[Glirk Dient]

I doubt the hardcore multiplayer idiots have enough backbone to boycott their game of choice because they can't casually swear.



Way to ignore half the posts in this thread AND compare gay people to animals.

FAIL.

So now we are to fix human nature and tell people what they can and can't find disgusting and wrong?

It is pretty easy to figure out.

A player starts a guild with an flame-bait theme
You want to avoid that player getting flamed and to stop the community from being upset that the offensive RL content is allowed in game...what do you do?

Allow it? People get angry, flame the players involved and chances are a few players would go to the extremes and attempt to hack/something else that is too far.

Stop it? This stops flame bait and the fantasy world remains a fantasy world as was intended. Did I compare gays to people who have sex with animals?

In a way that both are disgusting and viewed as wrong, except many of you here think anyone who has an opinion about what they view as right or wrong when it comes to gay people are simply homophobes and deserve to be stoned.

Would the case of people having sex with animals be allowed to be a guild? No..it is an offensive subject and has no place in a fantasy world. Hence it wouldn't be allowed. How about the subject of homosexuals? It is an offensive subject and has no place in a fantasy world. It is allowed? Why? Because they are homosexuals and the rules apparently don't apply to them.

Don't take this as a homo bashing post. I am not against gay marriage. Just it seems the rules have been allowed to be broken because the subject dealt with homosexuals. Not whether it was right or wrong what that player did. That is the issue I have with this. Homosexuals shouldn't get special treatment for their choice.

 

[kirovman]

Yes, but people who have sex with animals are in fact raping unconsenting animals.

So I submit that you surely have fallen victim to some form of fallacy?

Besides, a beastiality guild would be hilarious.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Yes, but people who have sex with animals are in fact raping unconsenting animals.

So I submit that you surely have fallen victim to some form of fallacy?

Besides, a beastiality guild would be hilarious.

I am not comparing them and saying they are alike. I am saying both are found to be disgusting and wrong.

So lets cut out the animals and just say if a guild was based on an rouchy subjects that many people find disgusting and wrong. There...now stick to the subject as im sure focusing on a small insignificant part of the argument is also a form of fallacy.

 

[kirovman]

So being gay is offensive?

During the 1930s and 1940s, being a Jew was "offensive" in much of Europe.

 

[Glirk Dient]

So being gay is offensive?

During the 1930s and 1940s, being a Jew was "offensive" in much of Europe.

Some people get offended when they see obscene/disgusting guilds forming. So yes, it can be to some people. However it is still flame bait and has no place in a fantasy setting.

I just don't get why homosexuals get special treatment.

 

[kirovman]

I guess they just want to play in an environment free from such slurs?

I don't think they went about creating this guild in the right way, but I think they should be allowed to do it in principle.

And why not? People should be allowed to do the things they enjoy (e.g. gaming), without having to face biggotry all the time.

 

[Gray Fox]

Glirk, you do know that they did not make a gay only guild, they simply recruited people who were okay with other members beeing gay.
Besides obscenity is in the eye of the beholder, some people find anal sex obscene, that does not give them the right to insult people who **** up the ass.

 

[Sulkdodds]

They're not getting special treatment. AT ALL.

Would the case of people having sex with animals be allowed to be a guild? No..it is an offensive subject and has no place in a fantasy world. Hence it wouldn't be allowed. How about the subject of homosexuals? It is an offensive subject and has no place in a fantasy world.

What are you talking about? Both of these things have a place in a fantasy world, especially if said fanatasy world is based on medieval times (although WoW is more like renaissance/industrial revolution). AND THIS ARGUMENT ONLY WORKS ON ROLEPLAYING SERVERS.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Glirk, you do know that they did not make a gay only guild, they simply recruited people who were okay with other members beeing gay.
Besides obscenity is in the eye of the beholder, some people find anal sex obscene, that does not give them the right to insult people who **** up the ass.

No it doesn't give them that right but they would voice opinions anyways. If you made a guild called the "Fanny Bandits" how long do you think it would last? Not very long, blizzard isn't dumb and would catch on to your butt pirates guild and force a name change or disband it. Subjects like that aren't allowed unless it pertains to homosexuals then its OK to break the rules.

When the obscenity is in the eye of the large majority who are already getting worked up over it...well it is in blizzards interest to fix the problem. Guilds don't need to be oriented to such subjects especially ones that cause a lot of flaming from the community. So you stick with your rules of such things dont belong and call it a day.

They're not getting special treatment. AT ALL.
What are you talking about? Both of these things have a place in a fantasy world, especially if said fanatasy world is based on medieval times (although WoW is more like renaissance/industrial revolution). AND THIS ARGUMENT ONLY WORKS ON ROLEPLAYING SERVERS.

In any case it doesn't need to be brought into the game when it has a negative effect. People find it disgusting and wrong and many people will actively voice their opinions about it. It doesn't need to be there, so why can't they create a normal guild like everyone else?

Blizzard doesn't allow other guilds that cause a giant flame fest to form...so why are homosexuals allowed to do so or anything related to them allowed to pass by? It is breaking the rules everyone else follows yet they aren't subject to those apparently. I see special treatment.

 

[Raeven0]

When the obscenity is in the eye of the large majority who are already getting worked up over it...well it is in blizzards interest to fix the problem. Guilds don't need to be oriented to such subjects especially ones that cause a lot of flaming from the community. So you stick with your rules of such things dont belong and call it a day.

"A select few think X is offensive, so let's ban X instead of telling those few to get the **** over it and shut up."

 

[Glirk Dient]

"A select few think X is offensive, so let's ban X instead of telling those few to get the **** over it and shut up."

Select few?

How about a large chunk of the player database? In any case, you can't tell me homosexuality isn't one of the largest controversial issues in the U.S. right now. So don't say only a very small amount of people find this controversial, because it is one of the largest issues.

I still don't see why they should allow content that a large portion of player find disgusting and wrong. All i have heard is "Zomg stfu" "Omg...homophobe!" and of course "Deal with it...they are gay, how dare you think negatively of them in any way possible.".

 

[Angry Lawyer]

They're not petitioning to have mansechs in the game, you know. If the players are gay or not doesn't change how it plays.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[DeusExMachina]

In any case it doesn't need to be brought into the game when it has a negative effect. People find it disgusting and wrong and many people will actively voice their opinions about it. It doesn't need to be there, so why can't they create a normal guild like everyone else?

The people who would voice their opinion would only voice hate. It's fine not agreeing with another's beliefs or creed or sexual orientation, but people should at least have the decency to be tolerant of them. Most of the people who play online videogames are of the former catergory.

 

[Yuri]

I don't see why Blizzard should have admitted their mistakes when they made none.

Sexual orientation is just like race, hair color, and height. You don't see "Four-Footer friendly" guilds, do you? No. Because there is no point.

Blizzard was protecting them from the obvious problems they are going to face, but moreso protecting themselves from having to deal with these dumbass problems that wouldn't arise if people didn't have to be so obnoxious.

 

[Lemonking]

why would you even talk about sex in WoW?



/Guild:OMG I found the [Krol Blade]
/Guild: grats mate
/Guild: thx, btw Im Gay.



LOL

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Sexual orientation is just like race, hair color, and height. You don't see "Four-Footer friendly" guilds, do you? No. Because there is no point.

There is a point though.
The gay-friendly guild was made specifically to exclude the kids constantly going "u re homogays lollol"

If WoW were plagued with kids spouting racial slurs, there would be multicultural guilds forming as well.
Hopefully, things aren't that bad in the game.

But if they were, would the guilds promoting tolerance towards other races be in the wrong?

I still don't see why they should allow content that a large portion of player find disgusting and wrong.

Sometimes you need to pull out the national guard to help the kids pass through the mob and get to their classroom.

Anyways, check the logical fallacy thread to see why objecting to something just because it's 'gross' or 'unnatural' to you isn't very smart.[/selfpromotion]

If you stop to think, the problem is homophobic children.
Remove the kiddies spamming "faggo" and you wouldn't have the suffer the intense trauma of seeing people who are different from you.

Trying to blame the gays for existing in the first place is just plain stupid. I don't think I am being unreasonable in saying that.
As I always say, replace "gay" with "black" and your argument will magically reveal its awfulness.

No-one is forcing you to have anal sex, so just keep a vomit bucket beside you in case you see two guys kiss, and attempt to cope with life in our post-1980's world.

A strapping straight man, I'm sure you have are secure enough in your sexuality to handle it.

 

[Glirk Dient]

There is a point though.
The gay-friendly guild was made specifically to exclude the kids constantly going "u re homogays lollol"

Most guilds say they are recruiting mature members and those who portray themselves as not mature enough by the above example are usually kicked out.

If WoW were plagued with kids spouting racial slurs

It is...Look at barrens chat and all they talk about is gay bashing and chuck norris.

But if they were, would the guilds promoting tolerance towards other races be in the wrong?

If someone had a problem with it chances are yes. It only takes a few petitions to make a GM look into the issue and do something about it.

Anyways, check the logical fallacy thread to see why objecting to something just because it's 'gross' or 'unnatural' to you isn't very smart.[/selfpromotion]

How else do you argue a case that is morally charged like this? There aren't facts to be had here, just moral issues.

If you stop to think, the problem is homophobic children.
Remove the kiddies spamming "faggo" and you wouldn't have the suffer the intense trauma of seeing people who are different from you.

I am tolerant of homosexuals and really tolerant to most everyone different. Doesn't mean I find what they are/do as disgusting or wrong. You can't force an opinion on people...all you can do is ask that people be tolerant.

Trying to blame the gays for existing in the first place is just plain stupid. I don't think I am being unreasonable in saying that.
As I always say, replace "gay" with "black" and your argument will magically reveal its awfulness.

See, your assuming I am against this because the party involved was gay. I am against this because Blizzard is giving out special treatment to certain people because of their choice.

No-one is forcing you to have anal sex, so just keep a vomit bucket beside you in case you see two guys kiss, and attempt to cope with life in our post-1980's world.

A strapping straight man, I'm sure you have are secure enough in your sexuality to handle it.

Now your assuming more again, I am sure this is another one of those fallacies. Assuming one condition to disprove another. Anyways...your more flaming me than adressing the issue at hand which is someone broke the rules blizzard set forth then they retracted the punishment...special treatment as I have said.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

How else do you argue a case that is morally charged like this? There aren't facts to be had here, just moral issues.

Arguing morality is the problem here, because what we are looking at is quantifiable with facts. Introducing morality into a factual matter clouds the issue with opinionation and emotional appeal.

Although Blizzard is a privately run institution, they are still, like any international company, at least trying to base their rules on secular logic.
The simple reasoning behind this is that secular logic is the standard international and cross-cultural method of decision making.
It allows the rules to apply fairly to the greatest number of people, as although everyone disagrees in religion and personality, logic is not equivocable.

Under that principle, it is not desirable for Blizzard to apply an arbitrary moral judgement based on "disgust" to their international paying audience.

The simple reasoning behind any rule is to prevent damage to a system. In the case of World of Warcraft, that system is based on community and interactivity.

Now, in WoW we have the homophobes and we have those who are anti-homophobe.

Homophobes, by definition, are being exclusive in their reasonless alienation of an estimated 10% of the game audience.

The anti-homophobes, on the other hand, are being inclusive to all, excluding only when there is a substantial reason (i.e. when the person is being harmful).

Of the two, one is a rational, productive community and the other is an irrational, destructive nuisance.

Blizzard's original rules supported the nuisance and antagonized the community.
That policy was harmful to their overall goal of creating community, and was therefore a regretable mistake.

I am tolerant of homosexuals and really tolerant to most everyone different. Doesn't mean I find what they are/do as disgusting or wrong. You can't force an opinion on people...all you can do is ask that people be tolerant.
See, your assuming I am against this because the party involved was gay. I am against this because Blizzard is giving out special treatment to certain people because of their choice.

Although you may very well be tolerant, your argument was made on behalf of and in support of those who are not.
You had made frequent reference to how "Some people get offended when they see obscene/disgusting guilds forming. " without any apparent acknowledgement that that mindset isn't rational.

On that grounds, I treated your argument for what it was.

Considering that apparent strong support for the homophobes and your previous comment comparing homosexual love to bestial rape, I do not think my more personal comments were without basis, regardless of what you may or may not actually believe.

If you were in fact arguing theoretically from an imagined homophobic position and are not actually prejudiced, then please consider my prior comments to be addressed to the fictional homophobic charicature you had presented.

Anyways...your more flaming me than adressing the issue at hand which is someone broke the rules blizzard set forth then they retracted the punishment...special treatment as I have said.

Although not exactly friendly, my flames do have logical basis in that a pleasant community must sometimes be enforced, as it had with racial integration in schools.

The enforcement in question must take place against the will of what you consider the vast majority, as they are acting in a matter that is simultaneously irrational and harmful.

In that regard, as I had stated, Blizzard was actually in the wrong by providing "special treatment" to those harmful elements in the first place.
Thus, in retracting the punishment, Blizzard have restored an equality that was originally missing.

Other topics may be worthy of punishing, but they are not relevant to this topic.
In the case of the LGBT guild, Blizzard's original rules were in the wrong, and have been rightfully repaired.

The real fallacy is in assuming that the rules must be right, regardless of their actual merit.