Builderburg Media: "Okay, so flouride CAN be bad."

[Danimal]

By MIKE STOBBE
The Associated Press
updated 1/7/2011 5:26:45 PM ET 2011-01-07T22:26:45

ATLANTA — Fluoride in drinking water — credited with dramatically cutting cavities and tooth decay — may now be too much of a good thing. Getting too much of it causes spots on some kids' teeth.

A reported increase in the spotting problem is one reason the federal government will announce Friday it plans to lower the recommended levels for fluoride in water supplies — the first such change in nearly 50 years.

About 2 out of 5 adolescents have tooth streaking or spottiness because of too much fluoride, a surprising government study found recently. In some extreme cases, teeth can even be pitted by the mineral — though many cases are so mild only dentists notice it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40962808/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/

I await your Cognitive Dissonance.

 

[morgs]

Good article, not sure if it'll have much effect but it would be good to see less fluoride in water supplies.

 

[dfc05]

My mom told me about this. Happens with lots of things. I remember there was a "chocolate is good/bad for you" thing going on 10 or so years ago.

Mostly I'm just glad this isn't about the whole "the government is putting fluoride into our water to turn us into complacent sheep" conspiracy theory.

My only concern is that this may lead people to drink more bottled water instead of tap water.

 

[Danimal]

My mom told me about this. Happens with lots of things. I remember there was a "chocolate is good/bad for you" thing going on 10 or so years ago.

Mostly I'm just glad this isn't about the whole "the government is putting fluoride into our water to turn us into complacent sheep" conspiracy theory.

I never found proof Flouride was used on holocaust prisoners/victims to keep them docile, despite how much that is used as that particular theory's main point.

My only concern is that this may lead people to drink more bottled water instead of tap water.

I SMELL A CONSPIRACY BREWING!

 

[dfc05]

I've never looked into it, but being the anti-conspiracy-theory type, just assumed it was made up.

 

[Stigmata]

Fluoride creates a plaque around your pineal gland.

http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/pineal/

"In conclusion, the human pineal gland contains the highest concentration of fluoride in the body. Fluoride is associated with depressed pineal melatonin synthesis by prepubertal gerbils and an accelerated onset of sexual maturation in the female gerbil. The results strengthen the hypothesis that the pineal has a role in the timing of the onset of puberty. Whether or not fluoride interferes with pineal function in humans requires further investigation."

It's only to do with gerbils, but consider two things. One, we do a shitload of medical testing on animals which ends up extremely relevant to humans. And two, all organic brains from reptilian upwards (and possibly including fish) have a pineal glan, and largely use the same neurotransmitters (serotonin, melatonin, dopamine, etc).

 

[VirusType2]

Well that's certainly interesting, Stigmata.

Spotty teeth though, Danimal? Do you realize how effective fluoride is in preventing tooth decay?

"Fluoride is considered by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention as "one of 10 great public health achievements of the 20th century".

Typically a fluoridated compound is added to drinking water, a process that in the U.S. costs an average of about $0.95 per person-year.

Dental cavities remain a major public health concern in most industrialized countries, affecting 60–90% of schoolchildren and the vast majority of adults. Water fluoridation prevents cavities in both children and adults, with studies estimating an 18–40% reduction in cavities when water fluoridation is used by children who already have access to toothpaste and other sources of fluoride. Although water fluoridation can cause dental fluorosis, which can alter the appearance of developing teeth, most of this is mild and usually not considered to be of aesthetic or public-health concern. There is no clear evidence of other adverse effects.

 

[elkaebee]

There is no clear evidence of other adverse effects.

WHAT ABOUT THE POLLUTION OF OUR PURITY OF ESSENCE?

 

[<RJMC>]

you first world people and your drinkable tap water...

 

[VirusType2]

Related to my earlier point, just look at the teeth of "country folk" who use well water - that is, if they have any left.

you first world people and your drinkable tap water...

Heh.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Related to my earlier point, just look at the teeth of "country folk" who use well water - that is, if they have any left.

I know, and they have such great dental care out there! Real stumper, that one.

 

[Mr Stabby]

In primary school I had to do a science report of the pros and cons of flouridation, the cons were no secret back then, the masonic/jew/illuminati run education system wasn't hiding it.

 

[Eejit]

All the *actual research* I've seen on fluoride indicates that health risks are all dosage-dependent. So eh, anything new? Is the point of this that levels safe for health can upset narcissists?

 

[VirusType2]

I know, and they have such great dental care out there! Real stumper, that one.

I don't know. I can't speak for the entire US, but 'the country' is probably different than you've seen on TV; it has been in my experience. Out past the dirt roads, it's like suburbia. There are tons of busy shopping centers, including hospitals and doctors. My Dad has been a plastic surgeon living in the country for 50 years.

I will concede the point, but as long as there is a highway nearby, I would expect the same across the US.

 

[dfc05]

Virus, they're just reducing the dosage, not eliminating the fluoride entirely. That way you'd still get the anti-cavity protection, but less of the spotty-tooth thing.

 

[Sheepo]

I SMELL A CONSPIRACY BREWING!

Humans have predictable behavior = CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!!

 

[Naph]

I think the spotty teeth business is a warning that you're drinking too much. Save some for the rest of us you ****.
Queensland if I recall, recently replaced the additive to the water supply after half a decade of absent flouride treatment. Good thing in my opinion, after all spotty teeth is far less of a problem then cavity filled and eroded teeth.

 

[VirusType2]

Virus, they're just reducing the dosage, not eliminating the fluoride entirely. That way you'd still get the anti-cavity protection, but less of the spotty-tooth thing.

Oh, yeah, I know. It's obvious. Reduce it some if that helps. I simply wanted to reinforce the fact that if it causes 'spotty' teeth, the benefits have greatly outweighed that.

 

[Stigmata]

Two more things.

1) If you brush your teeth, you don't need fluoridated water. At all. If your fluoride only comes from brushing then you're generally not actually ingesting any fluoride, which means it won't accumulate in your body and cause negative health effects. So why not give everyone toothpaste instead?

2) A major reason why fluoride is used at all is because it's a waste product of the bauxite->aluminium refining process. What better way to make a profit than wage an easy information campaign against the uninformed and make someone buy your garbage? (See the 1930s propaganda campaign against cannabis to see just how easily this can be done.)

 

[Higlac]

MMM well water.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Two more ****cakes.

1) If you brush your teeth, you don't need fluoridated water. At all. If your fluoride only comes from brushing then you're generally not actually ingesting any fluoride, which means it won't accumulate in your body and cause negative health effects. So why not give everyone toothpaste instead?

I drink Brita and brush my teeth!

 

[VirusType2]

MMM well water.

A water filter system is practical for drinking, and I would recommend it... perhaps regardless (well water or city water).

 

[Stigmata]

I drink Brita and brush my teeth!

/highfive. Don't swallow your toothpaste!

I'm getting a water filter as soon as I can afford one.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

I've also heard about home systems in which case you can just get the filtered stuff from your tap. Like $350ish. Self-cleaning so it doesn't need filters either.

 

[CyberPitz]

/spends nothing on my water and will not have any health problems from it either.

I'll probably end up dying from the million of other things way worse for me than fluoride in my tap.

 

[Warped]

/highfive. Don't swallow your toothpaste!

I'm getting a water filter as soon as I can afford one.

Brita water filters are about $10 now in the US. theres no excuse not to get one now

 

[dfc05]

/spends nothing on my water and will not have any health problems from it either.

I'll probably end up dying from the million of other things way worse for me than fluoride in my tap.

I tend to be a proponent of just drinking tap water too.

But lately something's been baffling me:
I'm in a department where half the profs there are experts in water quality/water treatment. For environmental reasons, we much prefer tap water over bottled water, since there are actually stricter health standards set on tap water to bottled. Yet, at our kitchen sink, we have a line with a filtration unit (ion exchange resin, I think) for drinking water. Even though I can see that it's good in helping people feel ok with drinking tap water instead of bottled, it also perpetuates the notion that the tap water is unsuitable to drink as is.

Sometimes I want to go there and fill up my water bottle from the sink line instead of the drinking water line. And then when someone points out there's a drinking-water tap, be like "Are you saying the tap water is unsafe to drink?"

 

[Warped]

Who here is more concerned with recycled plastic water bottles rather than the water inside. I always fear there are far more carcinogens in some cheesy plastic bottles than in the bottled water itself

 

[Raziaar]

Yes, the plastic bottles leech BPA.

I used to drink all the time with a plastic 2 liter soda bottle at home. I drank in a great bulk so it seemed good. However after research I found it's not healthy at all and could possibly cause cancer in the future so I switched to a glass wine bottle. I'm a wino 24/7.

 

[dfc05]

^Yep
Sometimes with really old bottles, the water tastes strange. And my mom used to do this awful thing when my sister and I were in school, where she'd save the plastic bottles, wash them and refill them, and have us drink out of those. Pretty sure they were degrading.

My international friends actually tend to drink bottled water the most, because they grew up in places where the tap water really isn't safe to drink. So it's more those people who I'm thinking about when we stick a filter on the sink at school. Because people aren't living at school, so they go home and there's no filter, and they think they can't drink the tap water.

 

[Raziaar]

^Yep
Sometimes with really old bottles, the water tastes strange. And my mom used to do this awful thing when my sister and I were in school, where she'd save the plastic bottles, wash them and refill them, and have us drink out of those. Pretty sure they were degrading.

My international friends actually tend to drink bottled water the most, because they grew up in places where the tap water really isn't safe to drink. So it's more those people who I'm thinking about when we stick a filter on the sink at school. Because people aren't living at school, so they go home and there's no filter, and they think they can't drink the tap water.

I used the same 2 liter soda bottle for a year and a half... washing it and reusing it for all that time.

 

[dfc05]

Dang. Mine was a little pint bottle for a year. Toward the end of it, I really hated drinking out of that thing because I could tell it was gross, but I never said anything about it. Then one day it got on the news that you're not supposed to reuse plastic bottles, so my mom stopped making me use it (though they still to this day buy cases of bottled water).

Kinda reminds me how my mom used to be obsessed with making my sister and I use acne soap. My sister was concerned with that kind of thing so she used tons of it. I didn't care so I never really used any. There was also this metal scoop where if you had a tiny speck of dirt in a pore that nobody sane would notice, you could literally dig it out of your face (a terrible idea unless you want infections). Multiple times a week, my mom would insist I use it and I'd outright refuse because it was ridiculous. It didn't stop until she was complaining my cousin about it, who finally told her that it's not actually good to use. My reaction was some combination of and :frown:. Nowadays my skin looks better than my sister's, probably because I didn't put chemicals all over it for 4 years straight.

...true horror stories from my childhood.

 

[Raziaar]

Dang. Mine was a little pint bottle for a year. Toward the end of it, I really hated drinking out of that thing because I could tell it was gross, but I never said anything about it. Then one day it got on the news that you're not supposed to reuse plastic bottles, so my mom stopped making me use it (though they still to this day buy cases of bottled water).

Kinda reminds me how my mom used to be obsessed with making my sister and I use acne soap. My sister was concerned with that kind of thing so she used tons of it. I didn't care so I never really used any. There was also this metal scoop where if you had a tiny speck of dirt in a pore that nobody sane would notice, you could literally dig it out of your face (a terrible idea unless you want infections). Multiple times a week, my mom would insist I use it and I'd outright refuse because it was ridiculous. It didn't stop until she was complaining my cousin about it, who finally told her that it's not actually good to use. My reaction was some combination of and :frown:.

...true horror stories from my childhood.

I probably shouldn't be saying this, but my aunt had some weird habits when it comes to acne with her kids. If they developed any sort of acne she'd pop them forcibly, at least from what I heard. Saw one of my cousins one day when he was visiting with us for summer vacation in the bathroom trying to pop a zit with a vise grip.

They don't have any acne really and they don't seem to have any acne scars from all that popping BUT WHAT THE ****.

 

[Danimal]

Spotty teeth though, Danimal? Do you realize how effective fluoride is in preventing tooth decay?

Spotty teeth aren't the be-all and end-all reason behind this reduction. Doesn't the fact that drinking something we've added to the water causing discolouration in children's teeth concern you in any way? It could be a sign of things to come.

The World Health Organization recently estimated that 2.7 million people in China have the crippling form of skeletal fluorosis. In India, 20 states have been identified as endemic areas, with an estimated 60 million people at risk and 6 million people disabled; about 600,000 might develop a neurological disorder as a consequence.

Although skeletal fluorosis has been studied intensely in other countries for more than 40 years, virtually no research has been done in the U.S. to determine how many people are afflicted with the earlier stages of the disease, particularly the preclinical stages. Because some of the clinical symptoms mimic arthritis, the first two clinical phases of skeletal fluorosis could be easily misdiagnosed. Even if a doctor is aware of the disease, the early stages are difficult to diagnose.[4] Given this, it may be beneficial for general physicians and neuromuscular specialists to familiarize themselves with this uncommon disease and monitor fluoride levels in patients diagnosed with arthritis over time.

Reducing the fluoride in the water will still probably give the precious benefit to teeth you apparently masturbate over, however it also reduces the chance of the natural and manually-added levels of fluoride to combine to more dangerous levels, which is the most common reason for Skeletal Fluorosis to take place, apparently.

Here's a few articles for thought, too:

Revealed: Texas officials covered up dangerously radioactive tap water for years


Exposure to Sodium Fluoride Produces Signs of Apoptosis in Rat Leukocytes (PDF)

Arsenic and Fluoride Exposure in Drinking Water: Children’s IQ and Growth in Shanyin County, Shanxi Province, China

Study Links Fluoride To Bone Cancer In Men

Fluoride Chemicals Leach Lead Into Water Supplies

Fluoride and The Phosphate Connection

And one that's only a week old:

EPA Proposes Phaseout of Fluoride Based Pesticide


Other then that, if it's proven that the benefits of Fluoride outweigh these negative aspects (It's apparently not as good as first thought to begin with) then wouldn't a reduction be ultimately a very, very good thing?

"Fluoride is considered by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention as "one of 10 great public health achievements of the 20th century".

Federal owned organisation defending and praising actions done by another Federal group. What the **** else is new.

Surely you can forgive me for not wholeheartedly trusting a group of people who have lied and lied again to the world. I can think of a couple of things that might have been better achievements of the 20th century for health, though.

Related to my earlier point, just look at the teeth of "country folk" who use well water - that is, if they have any left.

Oh look, an anecdote. Here's one too: I've always had perfect teeth, I only brush once a day before breakfast and until several months ago my state's drinking water did not have fluoride manually added to it.

 

[VirusType2]

Oh look, an anecdote. Here's one too: I've always had perfect teeth, I only brush once a day before breakfast and until several months ago my state's drinking water did not have fluoride manually added to it.

Yeah, well you're like... ****ing 20. And your adult teeth are like... 8 years old. Only 80 more years to go... once the enamel wears off it's all downhill and fast.

Think I've never heard of half of these diseases (in other words: has anyone ever died from skeletal fluorosis? Has anybody in the 1st world ever even had it? Your chances of getting them are about 0.


But by all means, protest it if you don't like it. It's your country and you should take part.


>China
Common causes of fluorosis include inhalation of fluoride dusts/fumes by workers in industry, use of coal as an indoor fuel source (a common practice in China)

>India
In India, the most common cause of fluorosis is fluoride-laden water derived from deep bore wells. Over half of ground water sources in India have fluoride above recommended levels.

 

[Maestro]

^Yep
Sometimes with really old bottles, the water tastes strange. And my mom used to do this awful thing when my sister and I were in school, where she'd save the plastic bottles, wash them and refill them, and have us drink out of those. Pretty sure they were degrading.

Yes, the plastic bottles leech BPA.

Who here is more concerned with recycled plastic water bottles rather than the water inside. I always fear there are far more carcinogens in some cheesy plastic bottles than in the bottled water itself

I used the same 2 liter soda bottle for a year and a half... washing it and reusing it for all that time.

Dang. Mine was a little pint bottle for a year. Toward the end of it, I really hated drinking out of that thing because I could tell it was gross, but I never said anything about it. Then one day it got on the news that you're not supposed to reuse plastic bottles, so my mom stopped making me use it (though they still to this day buy cases of bottled water).

Buy a Nalgene. It's 10 dollars for the best water bottle money can buy.

Sometimes I want to go there and fill up my water bottle from the sink line instead of the drinking water line. And then when someone points out there's a drinking-water tap, be like "Are you saying the tap water is unsafe to drink?"

The tapwater in my area comes from the nearby lake. To me it tastes like dead fish and sulphur, although I notice it less as time progresses. People who live here don't even notice it has a taste. Depending on the chemical makeup some people will just hate the water's default taste.

Not knocking tapwater's purity, but it can taste pretty godawful.

 

[Danimal]

Yeah, well you're like... ****ing 20. And your adult teeth are like... 8 years old. Only 80 more years to go... once the enamel wears off it's all downhill and fast.

Which is why the fluoride in my toothpaste and mouthwash exists, no? Are you implying that all the toothbrushes and the entirety of the dentistry industry in the world won't save you without phosphorus-mining toxic by-products?

You're not even meant to give that stuff to babies or children under the age of six (I'm sure you've seen the poison/dosage warnings on the backs of boxes), which means there must be some effective amount of the stuff in there - or am I stupid for thinking such?

Have you ever felt a bit hazy and light-headed stepping out of a hot, steamy non-filtered shower or sauna? That is because you have been inhaling the heated/vaporised chloroform, fluoride etc. in the water. It actually counts for bongs, too, but that's beside the point.

If you actually enjoy that feeling though, I recommend sniffing nail-polish remover instead - cheaper water bills and technically less uranium.

Think I've never heard of half of these diseases (in other words: has anyone ever died from skeletal fluorosis? Has anybody in the 1st world ever even had it? Your chances of getting them are about 0.

So you only care about a disease if it affects first world citizens, but not only that, it has to kill them? Apparently agonisingly stiff and painful joints aren't good enough to fill your care cup, especially when kids are starting to show signs of fluoride build-up in their teeth in your own country, which are pretty much bones too!

>China
Common causes of fluorosis include inhalation of fluoride dusts/fumes by workers in industry, use of coal as an indoor fuel source (a common practice in China)

Also, can you actually read the links I put in my posts instead of just pretending you do?

>The children tested in the Shanxi Province experiment aren't industrial workers.
>The test was conducted because similar results were showing up in Bangladesh.

I don't even understand why you're so violently opposed to reducing the amount of fluoride in your water in the first place. Are you trying to argue that we need more?

 

[VirusType2]

You're not even meant to give that stuff to babies or children under the age of six (I'm sure you've seen the poison/dosage warnings on the backs of boxes), which means there must be some effective amount of the stuff in there - or am I stupid for thinking such?

You're not supposed to drink it because the dosage is higher. There are some other chemicals in there too. Children under six, they may not understand or listen when you tell them to "swish". Or - just guessing here - they may swallow it out of habit (like flushing a toilet) or they simply like the taste.

Don't get frustrated man. You're not stupid, and I never implied it. But you often draw a conclusion that - just because possible - does not make it likely or even believable.

I don't believe it's an emergency health concern in our countries, where they intentionally put it in the water. In other countries, it sounds like it is an issue - but not from government water treatment - it's from careless exposure/poisoning. If some scientists think it's too much in the water, or if they think it's not necessary at all, then TAKE IT OUT. Simple.

No worries. Let's let scientists figure it out. We don't need paranoia that scares people into buying bottled water or to drink less water, or drink more soda and other unhealthy things.

How many Americans in over 60 years of water treatment may have pain from exacerbated "skeletal fluorosis"? Hardly a dozen? Is this an epidemic? Tell me. 350,000,000 other Americans are doing fine.

If you want to point something out that you think is a public health concern then please do so - let people draw their own conclusions.

When you paint yourself as "maybe delusional/maybe just paranoid" you have already lost most people. In addition when you do that, you also make it seem like you don't have enough evidence.

Then you point to things that aren't even convincing or are overly verbose without picking out anything important. Why should I read 100000000 words? It's not important or convincing or you don't understand it enough to pick out more than a scary sentence like ...they knew all along...

Forgive me then for dismissing much of this, but you often say things like: they put fluoride in the water to turn the lower class into mutants so they can't breed with the elite..., along with a link to something crazy. I think you may be mentally ill.

That said, I'm well aware that just because you think people are out to get you all the time doesn't mean they aren't sometimes.

 

[15357]

Haven't high levels of flouride caused severe aging in some parts of India?

Of course, high levels of anything would kill you, but still. Who drinks tap water anyway?

 

[VirusType2]

The relationship between fluoride and teeth has been studied since the early 19th century. By 1850, investigators had established that fluoride occurs with varying concentrations in teeth, bone, and drinking water. By 1900, they had speculated that fluoride would protect against tooth decay, proposed supplementing the diet with fluoride, and observed mottled tooth enamel (now called dental fluorosis) without knowing the cause

That doesn't sound like a plan to poison people.

By 2000, the topical effects of fluoride (in both water and toothpaste) were well understood, and it had become known that a constant low level of fluoride in the mouth works best to prevent cavities.

Fluoride definitely helps cavity prevention to be in drinking water. So you think they are putting too much? Or you'd rather have cavities and tooth loss than ingest any fluoride?


THIS is what happens to Danimals -

A Finnish study published in 1997 showed that fear that water is fluoridated may have a psychological effect with a large variety of symptoms, regardless of whether the water is actually fluoridated.

People can make themselves sick. It's a very real phenomenon of the human mind. The brain's built-in chemical set goes haywire, and sets the controls for the heart of the sun; the entire body is regulated by chemicals.