Bullets Physics

[mi6o]

Well... the Physics in HL2 is almoust perfect, but has one huge problem - fired bullets physics.I don't know how much of you have played Max Payne 2 (also using Havoc), but there, when you shoot someone, he doesn't stay still.He acts the way a real body will act, when has an impact with fired bullet.His limbs are bouncing(not sure if this is the correct word...) when shooted.

Also about the dead annimations.I am now in Ravenholm, here the only humanoid enimies are zombies and they die in exactly the same way.Doesn't matter if you shoot them in the head or in the leg with the shotgun, they allways fall on their knees and then lay down.With the revolver and the pistol they have 2 dead annimations - for headshot and for arm/body/leg.That is funny considerring that we have Havoc.

The dead body reacts very weel when shooted, the way a living body should react.But there is a problem with dead bodies too.They ignore the small items like a brick.The brick dropped on the dead body just falls down to the floor, like the body doesn't exist.

What do you say ?

 

[PvtRyan]

Funny, since HL2 doesn't have ANY death animations (you can check it in the model viewer if you like).
When shot, a model preserves momentum, meaning that if you gun it in the head with a magnum its head will fly back taking his body with him. And when you shoot him in the legs (and if he dies from it) his leg will swing backwards and make his face slam on the floor. It's perfectly realistic.

And an object doesn't react to ragdolls because a ragdoll is the most complicated form of collision detection in the game, and this would stress the physics calculations too much. You can turn it on however with cl_ragdollcolide 1

 

[D€vIL²]

uh... k... did you ever do the cheat "cl_ragdollcollide 1"

 

[NetWarriorDan]

How many limbs have you shot in real life Mr. expert in bullet physics?

 

[Sieni]

Gr8 reply

 

[Biggleska]

If you shoot someone in the leg, their leg doesn't go flying backwards and kick themselves up the arse.

If you drop a brick on a dead body it'll just make a thump and lay there... what are you expecting?. For it to bounce off into the sky?

 

[About]

If you drop a brick on a dead body it'll just make a thump and lay there... what are you expecting?. For it to bounce off into the sky?

exactly :afro:

 

[King John]

not so suprisingly a body recieves very little momentum from a bullet.
You could do the physics calculations but i cant be arsed, leave it that momentum before collision = momentum after and that a bullet has a gizillionth the mass of a body and that when the bullet enters the body the impulse is chaged becuase it takes time and distance for the bullet to come to rest (in the body) blah blah blah.

 

[FictiousWill]

FarCry ragdolls > HL2 ragdolls >= Max Payne 2 ragdolls

 

[Biggleska]

And, my grandfather was a sniper for the British army in the korean war (He must have been good, because he got into the S.A.S) - And from what he's told me... when you shoot a commie in the head - he doesn't go flying ten metres across the ground.

You're thinking bodies go flying when they get shot, well... they dont. Sorry.

 

[ray_MAN]

FarCry ragdolls > HL2 ragdolls >= Max Payne 2 ragdolls

Far Cry ragdolls are better than HL2's? MP2's are worse or equal to both? Are you being sarcastic?

 

[Wildhound]

Far Cry's physics engine was hilarious.

Max Payne 2 was a fantastic game.

The thread starter is an idiot.

Following my three entirely unrelated statements, I'll be off.

 

[corkscru74]

And, my grandfather was a sniper for the British army in the korean war (He must have been good, because he got into the S.A.S) - And from what he's told me... when you shoot a commie in the head - he doesn't go flying ten metres across the ground.

You're thinking bodies go flying when they get shot, well... they dont. Sorry.

Yeah, the whole point of a bullet is penetration - this way, if it makes it through the body, the exit hole will be greater and more effective.

If all the power of the bullet was used up pushing the person back it would be completely ineffective - for an example take a look at Jackass the Movie when Knoxville gets shot with a Beanbag from a 12 bore!

 

[ktimekiller]

hl2's ragdoll is the best around, but it isnt exactly realistic, you know why? because when someone gets shot, and dies, before he dies, he moves, he tries to cover the wound, or something, he falls to the ground, then he dies, in a game, the person dies right away. and in games, bones are inaccurate, no body fluids, no organs, nothing specific, but i agree hl2's ragdoll is teh 1337. and for mi60, when someone gets shot, they dont go flying a million feet like in hollywood. and i bet your thinking, if you shoot a dead body with a gun, it will move like 6 inches or something, but no, it will only wiggle. and by wiggle, i dont mean like jello wiggle....

 

[Rocketman9mm]

You've GOT to love how the crossbow shots are affected by gravity though.

 

[CookieCuttah]

A .50 calibur rifle will send em flying 10 feet. But then again the body will be sorta disjointed. Anyhow I find that the most realistic bullet physics around are in the 2d game called Soldat, google that and have fun.

 

[Onager]

I got a HL2 physics question. Why do the bodies go through entities, like cars,trash cans,barrels and so on. I just discovered the magic of cl_ragdoll_collide 1, it made the gameplay so much better. Still a great game.

 

[Pauly]

Well... the Physics in HL2 is almoust perfect, but has one huge problem - fired bullets physics.I don't know how much of you have played Max Payne 2 (also using Havoc), but there, when you shoot someone, he doesn't stay still.He acts the way a real body will act, when has an impact with fired bullet.His limbs are bouncing(not sure if this is the correct word...) when shooted.

Also about the dead annimations.I am now in Ravenholm, here the only humanoid enimies are zombies and they die in exactly the same way.Doesn't matter if you shoot them in the head or in the leg with the shotgun, they allways fall on their knees and then lay down.With the revolver and the pistol they have 2 dead annimations - for headshot and for arm/body/leg.That is funny considerring that we have Havoc.

The dead body reacts very weel when shooted, the way a living body should react.But there is a problem with dead bodies too.They ignore the small items like a brick.The brick dropped on the dead body just falls down to the floor, like the body doesn't exist.

What do you say ?

I believe you are talking about havok keyframe blending. Where you shoot a living persons arm and it flows backwords with a force. source engine uses havok 2 same with max payne- so yes it can do keyframe blending- its just not enabled on halflife2 probably performace reasons.

 

[Reaktor4]

You've GOT to love how the crossbow shots are affected by gravity though.

Well, gravity divided by about a thousand

 

[mi6o]

Oh My God People, I have never said that I expect the enimies to fly 10 meters in the sky after each shot... what i mean is that even the slightest push makes you change you possition... you just cant remain still when somebody shoot you... Whatever, I want fight back to those of you who flamed me, especially to those who called me idiot.

Pauly that was exactly what I am talking about, and I was just going to post a new thread in the developer's forum with link to this thread, and ask them if the Source is actually capable of doing this .But you answered me.

 

[BetaMaster]

Source Engine uses a heavily-modified Havok 1 physics engine.

 

[CookieCuttah]

it would be cool to have bullets rendered out, I remember they did it in the specialist, surely it would be possible

 

[Paravel]

If you think about it the whole principle of a bullet is to create intense pressure in a localized area to the effect of rupturing organs and lacerating tissues. If perhaps a bullet were as wide as a football, yes remained the same weight, it would negate the piercing effect in exchange for a wider impact thus distributing the force and loosing all the momentum by passing it on to the person.

But the way bullets work is they are small and designed (.22 caliber) to bounce around inside, shatter on impact (Losses much momentum because of this), or perhaps a larger full metal jacket rifled rounds designed for penetrating heavy armor and the body....

What I'm trying to say is from what I've read, heard, fired...bullets tear a little hole through things and footballs push things a lot. Try throwing footballs at your enemies if you want to see them go flying.

 

[L337_Assasain]

This guys is obviously a dumbass, there are no death animations, the guys die 100% differently ever single time you shoot them, when you shoot there arm, it does move, i don't know what setting your using.
And HL2s physics are much better then farcrys' so don't even joke about that, it makes me want to smack you through the computer screen.

 

[manic_subsidal]

You people aren't understanding this properly. He's not talking about the bodies flying when hit, it's how enemies have next to zero reaction when they are shot, and the way just stand there and absorb your bullets is unreal. You can shoot them in the face and there head barely bobs and they just keep standing still firing. A good example of how people should react when shot is Metal Gear Solid 2. Also, cl_ragdoll_collide does not solve bodies clipping through props.

 

[bone4ahead]

You people aren't understanding this properly. He's not talking about the bodies flying when hit, it's how enemies have next to zero reaction when they are shot, and the way just stand there and absorb your bullets is unreal. You can shoot them in the face and there head barely bobs and they just keep standing still firing. A good example of how people should react when shot is Metal Gear Solid 2. Also, cl_ragdoll_collide does not solve bodies clipping through props.

Exactly! In max payne 2 when a enemy is shot but not killed, they recoil in pain and move back a little. In HL2 shooting enemies has 0 effect on the animation they are performing. It's not very realistic but it doesn't matter that much.

And what's with the flaming? I don't post on this forum very much but it seems very hostile.

 

[ktimekiller]

I got a HL2 physics question. Why do the bodies go through entities, like cars,trash cans,barrels and so on. I just discovered the magic of cl_ragdoll_collide 1, it made the gameplay so much better. Still a great game.

if every single one of those calculations were made, even the best computers will be playing with average of 20 fps

 

[gcomeau]

Well... the Physics in HL2 is almoust perfect, but has one huge problem - fired bullets physics.I don't know how much of you have played Max Payne 2 (also using Havoc), but there, when you shoot someone, he doesn't stay still.He acts the way a real body will act, when has an impact with fired bullet.His limbs are bouncing(not sure if this is the correct word...) when shooted.

Also about the dead annimations.I am now in Ravenholm, here the only humanoid enimies are zombies and they die in exactly the same way.Doesn't matter if you shoot them in the head or in the leg with the shotgun, they allways fall on their knees and then lay down.

Ummm... as already pointed out by others: bullshit?

Just yesterday I cut a combine's legs out from under him with the pulse rifle and I swear his head actually bounced when it met the pavement.

It was great...

 

[StAtiC]

If you have ever played a long range HL2 DM map (I played one called 'race') You will notice that bullets actually have a lag-time before hitting targets. This is over a considerable distance, maybe 100-150+ feet away. If a modder takes advantage of the Source engine, this could be used well.

 

[rocklegendfm99]

uh... k... did you ever do the cheat "cl_ragdollcollide 1"

....no

 

[CookieCuttah]

Remember in delta force, where you had to set your sniper rifle to a certain distance arch, and if it was on the wrong arch it would shoot like weird...And the bullets were delayed...That game rocked...A lot. I still haven't been seeing anything of that scale being done effectively.

 

[mi6o]

Pay attention:

1)Yes, the Zombies, shooted with the shotgun, die in exactly the same way(may be 2 ways, one for the headshot, not sure).You can see this by going to ravenholm, find a place with lots of zombies, right ai_disable in the console and test.Shoot them in the leg, in the arm and in the body and see by yourself...


2)No, I wasn't talking about other hostiles, except Zombies:

I am now in Ravenholm, here the only humanoid enimies are zombies and they die in exactly the same way...

3)Yes, when you shoot someone alive, his body doesn't even tremble.

So I really don't see why you arguing me and keep calling me dumbass and idiot :| .

About dead annimation: may be here i haven't expressed myself properly.By dead animation I understand the way the body will fall.Of course you have no premade annimations, its all calculated in real time by havok.But Maybe the ragdoll of Zombies before they die is one huge Cube, so they die in 1 way... Dunno way, probably because Ravenholm is full of zombies and this is made for performance reasons.Pay attention again: I am talking only about zombies.

 

[destrukt]

i hate being a spelling-nazi, but it's shot, not shooted.

 

[Asuka]

uh... k... did you ever do the cheat "cl_ragdollcollide 1"

Its not a cheat Just a cmd.

 

[Flyingdebris]

If you have ever played a long range HL2 DM map (I played one called 'race') You will notice that bullets actually have a lag-time before hitting targets. This is over a considerable distance, maybe 100-150+ feet away. If a modder takes advantage of the Source engine, this could be used well.

actually bullets don't have a lag time before hitting. The tracer effect has a lag time, but the bullets hit instantly. For a better example of this, use the bullet-time mod. You will see the impact of a bullet well before the tracer crosses the distance. Also play the pilotable strider mod. The strider machinegun has really slow tracers compared to other guns, but its bullets still hit instantly.

 

[KurtCobain]

Well... the Physics in HL2 is almoust perfect, but has one huge problem - fired bullets physics.I don't know how much of you have played Max Payne 2 (also using Havoc), but there, when you shoot someone, he doesn't stay still.He acts the way a real body will act, when has an impact with fired bullet.His limbs are bouncing(not sure if this is the correct word...) when shooted.

Also about the dead annimations.I am now in Ravenholm, here the only humanoid enimies are zombies and they die in exactly the same way.Doesn't matter if you shoot them in the head or in the leg with the shotgun, they allways fall on their knees and then lay down.With the revolver and the pistol they have 2 dead annimations - for headshot and for arm/body/leg.That is funny considerring that we have Havoc.

The dead body reacts very weel when shooted, the way a living body should react.But there is a problem with dead bodies too.They ignore the small items like a brick.The brick dropped on the dead body just falls down to the floor, like the body doesn't exist.

What do you say ?

I say you're a knit picking kiddy that doesnt know anything about physics, or even HL2 for that matter. And you should read the post before sending it because your gramma is terrible.

Sorry for the rant but bored

 

[Cukel]

actually bullets don't have a lag time before hitting. The tracer effect has a lag time, but the bullets hit instantly. For a better example of this, use the bullet-time mod. You will see the impact of a bullet well before the tracer crosses the distance. Also play the pilotable strider mod. The strider machinegun has really slow tracers compared to other guns, but its bullets still hit instantly.

I was just about to post this myself.
Talking about Max Payne 2, the momentum gained from the shot was sometimes just absurd, you could pin a dude into the wall if you kept shooting constantly, almost with any weapon. Just to mention...

 

[PvtRyan]

Please, point me to one instance where the bodies lie te same in my picture. The way they ragdoll completely depends on 1) their current animation 2) their momentum 3) the weapon you kill them with.

And they do have flinch animations for being hit.

 

[ktimekiller]

you forgot where you shoot them and which direction

mi60 prolly never played hl2, hes just flaming and wants attenchen

 

[Paravel]

Every time I read something by Mi60 I'm left going "wtf?".

Go into the models, they have flinching animations (WHICH THEY USE). There are no animations or limitations as to how a character can die, they can roll, flip, bounce, slid, slither whatever...

Now PAY ATTENTION Mi60!

....you're dumb...