Bush or Kerry, vote today!

[Dulrough]

Your right blahblahblah, my last post was stupid and had no facts in it. except for the part about my avatar.
chill time...

 

[Korgoth]

I'm sorry but ranting does not make a valid argument.

The same goes for several other people in this thread on both sides of the fence. Why don't you guys take a break from this thread and cool down. That way the next time you post you can make some logical (and factual) arguments.

Right, nice rebuttal, have you actually read the facts i've posted on previous pages. Hardly a rant. But his post was totally legit right, because it was pro bush?

 

[SaL]

Ok, first and foremost, kerry isn't going to leave iraq if elected... Educate yourself before you make claims like this. And I never said once that i thought we should leave iraq now, we can't leave iiraq now, we are stuck there until the job is done... I have said however, i don't think we should have went there in the first place and that is completely different from abandoning the effort now.
Also if islam is so evil then why do you support the war in iraq? After all, there were no wmd, so we did it for the iraqi people, we freed them from a rutheless tyrant and now they live the good life right. But they are islamic so why would you want to help them, they are evil remember (at least according to you, now you're flip flopping haha)
And lastly you are a religious fanatic yourself, either that, or your very racist. I'm sorry your views of islam are so skewed from actuality. I've personally met many of these "islamic boogymen" and i'm still alive. So you're incorrect in your belief that everyone who follows the islamic faith is out to kill you because you don't believe in the same God.
And i'd also like to see factual evidence of this meeting, leading up to the oklahoma city bombing. Either way the perpatrators where white, do white people scare you?

you've never been to the Middle East

http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/
http://inhonor.net/videos.php
http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/Threats/iqbal.html

 

[Phraxtion]

Maybe because people are individuals with their own opinions and these opinions don't always follow exactly with the doctrine of a specific church. That doesn't mean they still can't consider themselves a member of that church.

Personally, I applaud him for standing up for what he thinks is right rather than bowing to the established church policy on a point that he disagrees with.



Yup, I just got it. Though I haven't gotten around to reading it yet.

Man... im not going to start making examples but do you relize how that sounds? It makes no sense. How can you claim to be a true Catholic and at the same time say abortion is ok?? I dont really see where opinion comes in. Only thing I see is a candidate trying to kiss everyones ass at the same time.

 

[DarkStar]

I'm sorry but ranting does not make a valid argument.

The same goes for several other people in this thread on both sides of the fence. Why don't you guys take a break from this thread and cool down. That way the next time you post you can make some logical (and factual) arguments.

Very good point. Blah, you almost make me want to become a Republican some times with your very sensible right-wing politics and even-handed approach.









HAHAhahahaAH! Just kidding. But seriously you're one of the few Republicans that I can have an intelligent conversation with. Far too many are so jingoistic and cheast-beating I can't even talk to them. Thanks for raising the level of discourse above that tripe.

 

[blahblahblah]

Right, nice rebuttal, have you actually read the facts i've posted on previous pages. Hardly a rant. But his post was totally legit right, because it was pro bush?

Very well. seinfeldrules quit posting, you are making republicans (like me) look like an ass. Happy, Innversion961?

Democrats: you are doing the same to your party.

I think you people need a break.

 

[Korgoth]

Whatever happened to seperation of church and state phraxtion. If you ask me its a good thing his religion doesn't affect his politics. If you remember America is diverse, not everyone follows the same religious beliefs and thats what makes us free, but to turn around and call him a hypocrit for this?

 

[blahblahblah]

Very good point. Blah, you almost make me want to become a Republican some times with your very sensible right-wing politics and even-handed approach.

Thats right, come join the dark side. I will have your soul soon enough.

Muwahahahaaa

 

[Dulrough]

I'm not satisfied that you guys are really debating the most important issues.

We are at War...know your enemy?

If some one down your street hates your guts do automatically think they are in the wrong or do you say to yourself, "hmph what the heck is ticken him off."? It may be easier to change then to commence "operation bomb the crap out of his house."

My enemy is one with the blood of my fellows on his hands and no one else.

 

[Korgoth]

Very well. seinfeldrules quit posting, you are making republicans (like me) look like an ass. Happy, Innversion961?

Democrats: you are doing the same to your party.

I think you people need a break.

Better, yes, remember this coin is double sided
And yes, frankly i'm rather tired of this debate, i've said what i've needed to say.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Sigh, this is it. I dont like Kerry because he

A: Cant make up his mind on anything (proven) heh
B: He is a pessimist
C: Bashes the swift boat vets, but not moveon.org
D: Will raise my taxes
E: Wont take a strong foreign policy approach. Would rather appease than stand and fight.

Okay, since I said other than flip-flopping and swift boats, that leaves:

B: He is a pessimist
Lots of people are. So what?
This thread makes me pessimistic until I look up to the 30-vote lead Kerry has.

D: Will raise my taxes
The Bush alternative is to cut funding to programs concerning health care, education and the environment, among others. Remember that there is a defecit that is rapidly growing. Cutting taxes won't fix that.
No wonder Kerry's pessimistic.

E: Wont take a strong foreign policy approach. Would rather appease than stand and fight
Other nations don't appreciate Bush's UN-snubbing style for some reason. As a Canadian, I can tell you don't like him.
I'd support Bush's anti-dictatorship stance if he actually went after more than one dictatorship. There are genocides being commited as we speak, but no action is being taken.

Hell, just one that doesn't have oil, even.

 

[DarkStar]

^^ Plus: Is a healthy dose of pessimissm such a bad thing? Looking at the United States with a critical eye instead of blindy swallowing everything you're spoonfed is actually quite an enlightened outlook IMO.

 

[SaL]

If some one down your street hates your guts do automatically think they are in the wrong or do you say to yourself, "hmph what the heck is ticken him off."? It may be easier to change then to commence "operation bomb the crap out of his house."

My enemy is one with the blood of my fellows on his hands and no one else.

Ahhh they've been bombing the crap out of American's,Europeans,Israeli's,and everyone that doesn't agree with them for the last 100 years

read this
http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/reports/The_Photo_that_Started_it_All.asp

 

[Phraxtion]

Whatever happened to seperation of church and state phraxtion. If you ask me its a good thing his religion doesn't affect his politics. If you remember America is diverse, not everyone follows the same religious beliefs and thats what makes us free, but to turn around and call him a hypocrit for this?

Oh but religion does affect his politics. Im sure you know theres a huge amount of religious voters out there...

 

[Neutrino]

Oh but religion does affect his politics. Im sure you know theres a huge amount of religious voters out there...

Yeah, but the problem is that they all have different religions. Thus the reason no politiocian can/should cater only to one of them.

 

[Dulrough]

Ahhh they've been bombing the crap out of American's,Europeans,Israeli's,and everyone that doesn't agree with them for the last 100 years

read this
http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/reports/The_Photo_that_Started_it_All.asp

Ahhh after you said "know your enemy" ok im too tired to reply properly so I fold on this part, yes some people in the middle east are crazy bastards and need to die but many of them dont like us and dont bomb us, why?!?!? Like a hornets nest if it stings yah, spray it, if not just leave it the hell alone. I dont think we have left them in peace. Look back at history, (see oil).

Btw your sig is awsome.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Oh but religion does affect his politics. Im sure you know theres a huge amount of religious voters out there...

That's kinda the problem. Church and state are supposed to stay apart, but Bush is getting support from the christian crowd by being anti-gay and anti-stem cell when those are almost purely religious concerns.

Frankly, it'd suck to be an atheist with alzheimers who couldn't get stem cell treatment, or a gay Buddist who isn't allowed to marry just because another religion told him not to.

It'd be like if Bush passed legislation to make all women wear Burquahs. Sure, some people would be happy, but many others would feel discriminated against, and rightfully so.

 

[blahblahblah]

I r teh winn3r!!111eleven

 

[Korgoth]

thats kind of underhanded blahblahblah, convince everyone to end the debate because its going nowhere then try to put your opinions up as the last and final word on the matter

 

[blahblahblah]

thats kind of underhanded blahblahblah, convince everyone to end the debate because its going nowhere then try to put your opinions up as the last and final word on the matter

Yeah, that was wrong of me, I wasn't thinking. I'll delete it (I'm serious). I'm going to bed.

 

[The Monkey]

If I was an american, I'd vote for Kerry.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

If I was an american, I'd vote for Kerry.

I think that's why he's winning the poll. HL2.net is an international crowd. An all-american site would expectedly have about 50% both ways.

Bah, I'm flip-floppering like Kerry on the topic of leaving this thread and getting some sleep. I'm leaving for real this time!

 

[DarkStar]

I think that's why he's winning the poll. HL2.net is an international crowd. An all-american site would expectedly have about 50% both ways.

Bah, I'm flip-floppering like Kerry on the topic of leaving this thread and getting some sleep. I'm leaving for real this time!

I think it also has something to do with the fact that as an FPS fansite, HL2.NET generally has a pretty youthful population. I've found that younger people tend to be slightly more liberal than older people.

 

[Korgoth]

Yeah, that was wrong of me, I wasn't thinking. I'll delete it (I'm serious). I'm going to bed.

You didn't have to delete it, it was your opinion, and you can voice it however you like. I just thought it was kinda sneeky

 

[Phraxtion]

That's kinda the problem. Church and state are supposed to stay apart, but Bush is getting support from the religious crowd by being anti-gay and anti-stem cell when those are almost purely religious concerns.

See for me that isnt a problem. I consider myself a good christian. Not baptist, not catholic, etc. Just a christian. Im married, have a wife of 2 years and we both have the same beliefs. Im not here to judge anyone off of their opinions, im not going to run into the streets and start waving sighs. There are just certain things I feel and believe both politicaly and religiously.

I once had a gay man ask me "So, do you think its wrong to be gay". I asked him how he thought it was right. I told him simply that 2 and 2 dont go together, know what I mean. From there it went into a huge mental blowout of hormones and balances and other reasons he was the way he was.

As for stem cells=abortion, they already have enough. Why do they need more. Bush has passed funding for all 21 lines I believe it is. More than enough, so whats the problem?

Guess ill be back in the morning to see what bashes ive recieved.

 

[Neutrino]

See for me that isnt a problem. I consider myself a good christian. Not baptist, not catholic, etc. Just a christian. Im married, have a wife of 2 years and we both have the same beliefs. Im not here to judge anyone off of their opinions, im not going to run into the streets and start waving sighs. There are just certain things I feel and believe both politicaly and religiously.

Ya, but for a lot of other people in this country who aren't christian it is a problem. And luckily we live in a democracy where they matter too. To think about it another way, would you be happy if the president was buddhist, or jewish, or a scientologist and started making decisions based on those beliefs?

I once had a gay man ask me "So, do you think its wrong to be gay". I asked him how he thought it was right. I told him simply that 2 and 2 dont go together, know what I mean. From there it went into a huge mental blowout of hormones and balances and other reasons he was the way he was.

How is it right? Well if two people love eachother it seems pretty right to me. However, that is beside the point. The reason you think it is wrong is due to your religion. Many others don't share that religion so don't think it is wrong. Bringing religion into politics is an extremely dangerous thing to do. It may not seem that way, but wait until someone bring a different religion than your own into it and then it becomes clear why it should not be done.

As for stem cells=abortion, they already have enough. Why do they need more. Bush has passed funding for all 21 lines I believe it is. More than enough, so whats the problem?

Well first, I truly don't understand how people equate stemcell research and abortion. I mean at a certain point you could logically use the same arguement to say that every sperm cell is a potential human child and thus killing one is abortion. Of course such a viewpoint would be absurd, and I really don't see much difference between that and stemcells.

But, that's somewhat beside the point. To answer your question, scientist think that the research is being hindered by only providing 21 lines. There's a lot of information on it. I can maybe go get some later if you'd like.

But another point in that debate is that polls show a majority support for stemcell research, and we do live in a democracy after all....

Kind of on the subject, here's a nice little snipet that I think sums up how religion plays a role for both Kerry and Bush. Though I'm sure many will disagree with it.

http://www.kniff.de/cgi-bin/cgiprox...p/www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5698295/site/newsweek/

The Republican message is don’t vote for Kerry because he supports abortion rights. Kerry thinks abortion is wrong, but he’s not going to impose his religious beliefs on the country. Bush on the other hand has turned his religious beliefs about embryonic stem cells into public policy.

Voters have the choice between a president who governs by belief and a challenger who puts his faith in rational decisionmaking.

This scares me somewhat because I'm afraid many people who happen to agree with Bush will vote for him because he does "govern by belief." I would however urge anyone who fits in this catagory to examine this issue very closely. This is not necessarily a good thing. Bringing religious beliefs into public politics is a recipe for disaster I think. After all, there's no gurantee that the next president will have the same religion as you do or the same beliefs. Therefore, I would hope people could see that basing policy solely on belief is never a good thing in a democratic country that supports freedom of religion.

 

[SaL]

FBI docs say China funded Kerry
Suggest exchange with Beijing for aerospace technology

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: August 28, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern



© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

The legal watchdog group Judicial Watch announced the release of recently declassified documents that indicate Sen. John Kerry accepted laundered contributions from the communist Chinese government for his 1996 re-election campaign.

In exchange, Judicial Watch suspects, the presidential candidate might have arranged meetings between Chinese aerospace executives and U.S. government officials.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40190

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40042

I'm Christian too and voting for Bush/Cheney.I had to endure 8 yrs of Clinton/Gore .My main reason for voting for Bush is foreign policy.Kerry and the Democrats too far left and weak on defense & military,foreign policy

 

[Korgoth]

FBI docs say China funded Kerry
Suggest exchange with Beijing for aerospace technology

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: August 28, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern



© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

The legal watchdog group Judicial Watch announced the release of recently declassified documents that indicate Sen. John Kerry accepted laundered contributions from the communist Chinese government for his 1996 re-election campaign.

In exchange, Judicial Watch suspects, the presidential candidate might have arranged meetings between Chinese aerospace executives and U.S. government officials.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40190

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40042

I'm Christian too and voting for Bush/Cheney.I had to endure 8 yrs of Clinton/Gore .My main reason for voting for Bush is foreign policy.Kerry and the Democrats too far left and weak on defense & military,foreign policy

Yeah, i'd definately believe everything i read on worldnetdaily SaL...

In fact here is the first thing i saw when i went to that site:

"Triple special! FREE Bible, prophecy, Farah blockbusters"

After further inspection of that site, i just have to take this time to stop and laugh at the fact that you would actually link to it. Sorry, its just to good.

 

[Sprafa]

"If Bush wins, I will personnaly devote the rest of my life to destroy the USA."

That truth is, the entire internacional community hates Bush.

So the message you'll send to the int. community is you vote for Bush, is that you don't give a ****, and that you love to be closed in your little arrogant empire.

And if anyone is going to link a site to prove themselves, then link a godamn internacional and unbiased site. i.e. - www.reuters.com or even better, www.wikipedia.org

 

[Sui]

if i was stupid... i mean... american, i would vote for kerry.

either him or neither

 

[blahblahblah]

"If Bush wins, I will personnaly devote the rest of my life to destroy the USA."

That truth is, the entire internacional community hates Bush.

So the message you'll send to the int. community is you vote for Bush, is that you don't give a ****, and that you love to be closed in your little arrogant empire.

And if anyone is going to link a site to prove themselves, then link a godamn internacional and unbiased site. i.e. - www.reuters.com or even better, www.wikipedia.org

Hey now. I suggest you shut your mouth.

 

[The Monkey]

You yankees decide alot of what's going to happen in the world for the next 4 years. Vote wisely.

 

[CptStern]

braggart or liar

the choice is clear

 

[blahblahblah]

You yankees decide alot of what's going to happen in the world for the next 4 years. Vote wisely.

You also have to remember, I will be voting for my country too (the US). Foreign policy is not the only thing I have to consider when voting this coming November.

Plus, you are assuming that the other canididate (Kerry) is better than Bush. Shouldn't make assumptions. Now that I think about it, Kerry hasn't mentioned anything about would he would do with foreign policy.

I take my voting very seriously. To be perfectly honest, I am starting to doubt Kerry more and more. I want to see more detailed policy ideas if he was elected. Right now, we have Kerry's Vietnam record and that is about it.

braggart or liar

the choice is clear

Wait, that describe Bush and Kerry...

 

[Bio]

What is best? Get shot in your heart or brain?

 

[seinfeldrules]

So? I don't remember this being very relavent to being president, and frankly if your basing your vote on that I'd be pretty apalled.

I dont want some doom and gloom guy running the White House. Again, you asked me why I didnt like him and I responded.

He has criticized people who say he is lying. Seems reasonable to me. And all the people who were actually with him support him. Plus, this is a really small issue in comparison to larger much more important things, and hardly creates a substantial argument against him being president.

No, not all people who were with him support him, look at the facts. Obviously it is minor, but you asked me why I didnt like him.

Maybe because they need to be raised? The government doesn't work for peanuts I'm sorry to say and with everything we need to pay for, plus the War Bush got us into, not to mention the deficit, I don't find it that surprising that taxes may have to go up somewhat. Plus, I believe he would mostly raise taxes for the rich, which really wouldn't be that much of a burden considerign that BUsh already cut them.

Then I believe we need to stop spending so much on social programs. Obviously Bush hasnt been the best example of a fiscal conservative, but I feel he will do better than Kerry, who is willing to spend money to the moon.

I think we could use a gentler approach to foreign policy. Compromise isn't an evil thing. Also, "standing and fighting" like Bush hasn't exactly done much for us, so I'd welcome a change.

I dont believe you can compromise with evil. And since we did start fighting I havent noticed any more 9/11 attacks (thank god). I cant believe we didnt learn our lesson after what we did with Hitler. Thank God Bush did.

 

[seinfeldrules]

So the message you'll send to the int. community is you vote for Bush, is that you don't give a ****, and that you love to be closed in your little arrogant empire.

No, the message is we dont want to be dictated to by a bunch of washed out Europeans who still think they are superior and more civilized than we are.

 

[seinfeldrules]

seinfeldrules quit posting, you are making republicans (like me) look like an ass.

I dont think so. You're a little too arrogant for your own good. Step off the pedestal and rejoin reality whenever you are ready.

 

[Operation Ivy]

Heres a video about Kerry its kinda long 12min but it shows how keeps flip flopping on everything

Like i said before im not a Bush fan, but Kerry is just shit

http://media1.stream2you.com/rnc/072304v2.wmv

 

[Sui]

seinfeldrules there iis such thing as an edit button... use it. im starting to find reading all or your posts annoying.

Post once, then forget about it. if you have something else to say, edit your last post and stick it on the end. Donw repetadly try and drill your opinion into everyones heads.