Bush or Kerry, vote today!

[Korgoth]

I'm not the confused one here for crying out loud, you asked me what I was talking about!

 

[Phraxtion]

I'm not the confused one here for crying out loud, you asked me what I was talking about!

lol *tries to hug Innervision*

 

[Sprafa]

WTF? I've never seen America have positive foreign relations. Ever since WWII, we've never had it. Never. Kerry will not improve foreign relations. For the first year in office, you make think there is change, but their isn't. 4 years later you will be moaning and complaining about America again.

Honestly, having a protest in *some random country* affect me? Not at all. On a scale of things that I have to worry about my life, foreign policy is on the back end of things. Telling me that I am arrogant frankly shows your arrogance. Further more, calling me arrogant (or my country or President) is not going to change my mind. If anything you are going to cement it further. Tread lightly.

I need to worry about our economy, education, jobs, environment, social security, government spending, military, taxes, health care, electricity, etc. Foreign policy is a distant consideration.

Right now, our foreign policy isn't hurting you. It is only hurting Iraq and Afghanistan (which isn't a good thing). Before this happened, I am wiling to bet money that you had no idea where Afghanistan is located. Telling me that he has the worst foreign policy is ridiculous. If we really had horrible foreign policy, Iraq would be glowing (read: radiated) parking lot.

oh...I didn't noticed your foreign policy only affected Iraq and Afghanistan..... So the global rise of oil prices has nothing to do with you guys right? no...

I know where Afghanistan is located ever since I 1st heard Soviet invasion. And that was a long time ago....

Bush screwed the economy and MediCare.

And guess what, Clinton had excellent foreign relations. Saudi Arabia, Turkey, they all loved him. Now they all hate America. Wonder why is that... A protest in *some random country* certainly does not affects you. But hell, a protest in every single *random country* should.

And Iraq is hell. How close is that of your radiated parking lot?

 

[Korgoth]

ah, i'm loved

 

[Phraxtion]

Ok you guys, I need a break. Gonna go play some CS:S :sniper:

 

[seinfeldrules]

Potential terrorists.

Wait so you're saying that we shouldnt offend the terrorists by electing Bush again. HAHAHAHA

Heaven forbid terrorists should get their feelings hurt!

And why should I take into "consideration" what a French citizen thinks of the President of the United States of America? I should take into consideration what I, as a citizen of the United States of America, feel. We arent electing the head of the UN, so in all honesty international thought and opinions are worthless. I am not saying they are always worthless, far from it, but I am saying for the election they are.

Finally I disagree with blahblahabla

Right now, our foreign policy isn't hurting you. It is only hurting Iraq and Afghanistan

I dont see how removing one of the most brutal dictators in history hurt Iraq. Then again, I bet they loved getting slaughtered by the thousands!

 

[blahblahblah]

oh...I didn't noticed your foreign policy only affected Iraq and Afghanistan..... So the global rise of oil prices has nothing to do with you guys right? no...

I know where Afghanistan is located ever since I 1st heard Soviet invasion. And that was a long time ago....

Bush screwed the economy and MediCare.

And guess what, Clinton had excellent foreign relations. Saudi Arabia, Turkey, they all loved him. Now they all hate America. Wonder why is that... A protest in *some random country* certainly does not affects you. But hell, a protest in every single *random country* should.

And Iraq is hell. How close is that of your radiated parking lot?

Take a look at China for rising oil prices. The American economy has pretty much been stagnant since 2000. You can also blame China for price increases in copper, scrap metal and various other semi-precious resources.

I stand corrected about Afghanistan. Nice to know that other people can find Afganistan on a map.

You don't know what you are talking about. Bush can barely affect the economy if he tried. For medicare, see congress. Anyways, the new medicare bill that passed is a massive (but expensive) jump.

Yup, all these countries love America. That is why we had the USS Cole bombed while Clinton was in office. We can't forget the massive amounts of protests in the Balkans can we?

How is Iraq different than it was when Saddam Hussein was in office? Iraq will get better because it can start to receive international aid and has had NATO restrictions lifted. You can't rebuild an economy and government overnight.

 

[seinfeldrules]

That is why we had the USS Cole bombed while Clinton was in office. We can't forget the massive amounts of protests in the Balkans can we?

Dont forget Somalia.

 

[Sprafa]

Take a look at China for rising oil prices. The American economy has pretty much been stagnant since 2000.

Not true. The main reason why the prices are going so high is Iraq and Yukos. China is a small factor.

You don't know what you are talking about. Bush can barely affect the economy if he tried. For medicare, see congress. Anyways, the new medicare bill that passed is a massive (but expensive) jump.

Who controls the congress? Isn't it the...hmm... Republicans?

Yup, all these countries love America. That is why we had the USS Cole bombed while Clinton was in office. We can't forget the massive amounts of protests in the Balkans can we?

Balkans? guess what, USA had invaded the Balkans. At least they didn't went ape like Iraq. I wonder why is that...


The USS Cole - Al-Quaeda. Al-Quaeda isn't Saudi Arabia or Turkey. And most inhabitants of both these countries were favorable to America because of Desert Storm.

How is Iraq different than it was when Saddam Hussein was in office? Iraq will get better because it can start to receive international aid and has had NATO restrictions lifted. You can't rebuild an economy and government overnight.

Well, 1st - The country was stable, insurgents count - 0. . No anarchy and cities being warzones.

2nd - 0 americans on the ground.

3rd - There was nearly 0 crimes in Iraq, except the ones commited by the State or the powerful.

4th - Al-Sadr didn't had an army. All of the cities were under control of the same power

I could go on .... but my point is done.

 

[Sprafa]

Dont forget Somalia.

Somalia is still nearly in civil war. Now why doesn't Bush invades them and brings "peace & freedom" :|

 

[seinfeldrules]

There was nearly 0 crimes in Iraq, except the ones commited by the State or the powerful

Yeah we'll just let the hundreds of thousands of murders not count as crimes. I bet the people loved that!

Somalia is still nearly in civil war. Now why doesn't Bush invades them and brings "peace & freedom"

Because people like you would whine and holler about the Bad Boy America bullying around another country. Why doesnt your country do something about it? Why doesnt France, Germany, Japan or Korea?

 

[Sprafa]

Yeah we'll just let the hundreds of thousands of murders not count as crimes. I bet the people loved that!

You really can't read can you?

Mass murder was commited by the State.

 

[Prince of China]

Somalia is still nearly in civil war. Now why doesn't Bush invades them and brings "peace & freedom" :|

Because they have no weapons of mass destruction.

 

[seinfeldrules]

You really can't read can you?

Mass murder was commited by the State.

So you completely downplayed that. You didnt even mention it. Also I'm sure people would rather get robbed than murdered. Correct?

 

[Sprafa]

Because they have no weapons of mass destruction.

That's a very interesting point... Iraq did?

wonder why no one can find them....

 

[Sprafa]

So you completely downplayed that. You didnt even mention it. Also I'm sure people would rather get robbed than murdered. Correct?

I did not said that.

There was nearly 0 crimes in Iraq, except the ones commited by the State or the powerful

If you're really going to insist on that, it's estimated that Saddam killed less than the 2 USA-Iraq wars.

 

[Prince of China]

If Bush really wanted to find WMD's, he would've went to North Korea.

 

[Sprafa]

If Bush really wanted to find WMD's, he would've went to North Korea.

And get a nuclear bombardment of Japan, maybe even LA.

N.K. is not an option.

(amazingly, I did stand up for Bush here)

 

[Sprafa]

hey check this out - http://www.atsnn.com/story/76236.html

Bush is also quite known for dissing international leaders.

 

[blahblahblah]

Not true. The main reason why the prices are going so high is Iraq and Yukos. China is a small factor.

I suggest you learn about business and economics. Since the mid 90's China's economy has exploded. If it continues its current pace (which is highly unlikely), it will actually rival the US's in about 7 years. China is the factor in causing a hike in oil prices.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3572172.stm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5767636/

Who controls the congress? Isn't it the...hmm... Republicans?

Thats congress, we are talking about Bush know. Don't confuse the 2 subjects.

Balkans? guess what, USA had invaded the Balkans. At least they didn't went ape like Iraq. I wonder why is that...

You are confusing the UN with the USA. The USA was treated as a scape goat for the Balkan fiasco.

The USS Cole - Al-Quaeda. Al-Quaeda isn't Saudi Arabia or Turkey. And most inhabitants of both these countries were favorable to America because of Desert Storm.

Hmm...my friend who use to live in Saudi Arabia never said that. He said that he was usually to afraid to leave his American compound when he lived there. Yup, they sure loved American's back then.

Well, 1st - The country was stable, insurgents count - 0. . No anarchy and cities being warzones.

2nd - 0 americans on the ground.

3rd - There was nearly 0 crimes in Iraq, except the ones commited by the State or the powerful.

4th - Al-Sadr didn't had an army. All of the cities were under control of the same power

I could go on .... but my point is done.

Thats right, we should have left the Iraqi people starving and Saddam Hussein in his 13+ palaces.

 

[seinfeldrules]

If you're really going to insist on that, it's estimated that Saddam killed less than the 2 USA-Iraq wars.

I really do think you are insane. I am not even kidding. Where you could even think up something like that is beyond me.

http://www.insightmag.com/news/2004/03/16/World/Mass-Graves.Testify.To.Saddams.Evil-621193.shtml

the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) reports that since Saddam was ousted 270 sites of mass graves have been reported. These contain an unknown number of Iraqis, Iranian prisoners of war, Iraqi Kurds and Kuwaiti prisoners among the long list of those Saddam tortured and killed. British Prime Minister Tony Blair puts the remains in mass graves at 400,000 so far.

 

[gh0st]

I did not said that.

i dont like you, but not because your gay. because your the type of bleeding heart liberal that always wants to appease to everybody. personally i dont give a flying **** about what portugal, or anyone from it thinks about my country. not because im close minded, but because of how rediculous it would be if i bitched and moaned about your president. im just saying what everyone else thinks. by the way, hows the portugese communist party doing?

 

[Sprafa]

I really do think you are insane. I am not even kidding. Where you could even think up something like that is beyond me.

http://www.insightmag.com/news/2004/03/16/World/Mass-Graves.Testify.To.Saddams.Evil-621193.shtml

Really unbiased site you got there....

Meh. I really never thought Saddam had killed more than 150 000. If he did, hell, that's a lot.

 

[Sprafa]

i dont like you, but not because your gay. because your the type of bleeding heart liberal that always wants to appease to everybody. personally i dont give a flying **** about what portugal, or anyone from it thinks about my country. not because im close minded, but because of how rediculous it would be if i bitched and moaned about your president. im just saying what everyone else thinks. by the way, hows the portugese communist party doing?

pretty bad, everyone hates them. They have less than 3% of the votes on the last election.

You're all missing the point btw. Do you really think it's just Portugal?

Am I really the only one that remembers the worldwide protests?

By the way, I really don't judge ppl just for politics...

 

[gh0st]

pretty bad, everyone hates them. They have less than 3% of the votes on the last election.

5%. thats more than our green party typically gets. bush also gets insulted quite a bit, from foreign politicians who dont know when to keep their mouths shut: http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/08/26/canada.us.reut/index.html and that one not only was bush, but insulting america as well.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Written by someone from the NYT: http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=5773

Casualties from Iraq's gulag are harder to estimate. Accounts collected by Western human rights groups from Iraqi émigrés and defectors have suggested that the number of those who have "disappeared" into the hands of the secret police, never to be heard from again, could be 200,000. As long as Mr. Hussein remains in power, figures like these will be uncheckable, but the huge toll is palpable nonetheless.

Your ignroance truly sickens me Sprafa. How you could even make such a ridiculous claim is beyond me. Your arguments hold no water after this one.

 

[SaL]

Yeah, i'd definately believe everything i read on worldnetdaily SaL...

In fact here is the first thing i saw when i went to that site:

"Triple special! FREE Bible, prophecy, Farah blockbusters"

After further inspection of that site, i just have to take this time to stop and laugh at the fact that you would actually link to it. Sorry, its just to good.

Because you think that if somebody's a Christian that invalidates the integrity of their journalism?Then only BBC,CNN,ABC,NBC,CBS,and FOX are the only news organizations that are credible?

And only atheists,agnostics,skeptics,non-Christians are unbiased enough to present the news?

So many people hate Christians thats why they hate Bush and Americans who vote for him.

 

[Sprafa]

Written by someone from the NYT: http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=5773



Your ignroance truly sickens me Sprafa.

200 000. That's about half of what you posted before. Amazing how the data got corrupted.

 

[gh0st]

200 000. That's about half of what you posted before. Amazing how the data got corrupted.

who have "disappeared" into the hands of the secret police, never to be heard from again, could be 200,000

comprehension is a beautiful thing.

 

[Sprafa]

5%. thats more than our green party typically gets. bush also gets insulted quite a bit, from foreign politicians who dont know when to keep their mouths shut: http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/08/26/canada.us.reut/index.html and that one not only was bush, but insulting america as well.

5% ?

meh, told ya it was really low. Checking the CIA factobook? I'm talking about the European Parlament Elections, not the legislative.

 

[gh0st]

5% ?

meh, told ya it was really low. Checking the CIA factobook? I'm talking about the European Parlament Elections, not the legislative.

no, cnn.

typically parliaments would fall under legislative branches of governments. edit: yeah i don treally see what your talking about unless "parlament" is different than "parliament"

 

[Korgoth]

I don't hate christianity, but that site was all about end times and pretty laughable if you ask me, and i think just about everyone in this debate, republican or democrat would agree here... I can't believe your going to try and defend it.

 

[seinfeldrules]

200 000. That's about half of what you posted before. Amazing how the data got corrupted.

It is all estimates if you havent noticed. The only ones who know for a fact how many died, are dead.

 

[ferd]

Since when do Americans vote for what Europeans want. Ridiculous. It would be like Americans telling you to vote for a different PM because we dont like your current one.

I've seen Americans do that you know?

 

[seinfeldrules]

I've seen Americans do that you know?

Then dont listen to them.

 

[Sprafa]

no, cnn.

typically parliaments would fall under legislative branches of governments. edit: yeah i don treally see what your talking about unless "parlament" is different than "parliament"

I'm not talking about National Parliament, I'm talking about the European one.

Whatever, I just know the Socialist Party won by a pretty big margin. The right-winged party, The Democratic Socialist Party, the one I like, lost unfortunately.

 

[Sprafa]

It is all estimates if you havent noticed. The only ones who know for a fact how many died, are dead.

Did you noticed that was exactly my point?

I really don't think Saddam broke the 150 000 to barrier. well, he might have reached the 200 000, but I seriously doubt it.

 

[seinfeldrules]

I really don't think Saddam broke the 150 000 to 200 000 barrier.

Then you are a fool. And also do you realize how many people that is. Good lord.

 

[gh0st]

I really don't think Saddam broke the 150 000 to barrier. well, he might have reached the 200 000, but I seriously doubt it.

haha. he only killed 150000 people? what a nice guy, should have definatly let him stay in power.

 

[OCybrManO]

hahaha, if he had to avoid the entire left media then he wouldnt be able to make any appearances at all.

You do know that the few corporations that own and control almost all of the TV media are conservatives, right? The somewhat more liberal reporters have to read what is on the teleprompter/cards. They might be able to slip in some liberal comments every now and then, but they can't affect the overall slant of their news show without getting reprimanded or fired. The higher up you go in the news conglomerates, the more conservative the employees get. The "liberal media" is like bigfoot... the believers think the evidence is obvious while it actually proves them wrong if you take the time to stop and think.

Meh, I dunno. Voting for the war, then not voting to fund the troops. Switching his policies whenever it will help him politically. Calling for Bush to stop the swift boat ads, but ignoring moveon.org. Missing most of his time in the Senate.

You guys (everyone) need to stop and look at what they are voting for before you use it against them. Whenever something is guaranteed to pass they (both parties) tack on additional legislature that is often completely unrelated to the issue at hand in an attempt to force the other party to pass their additional crap or vote against it and be called anti-American, communist, etc. Politics is a dirty profession. You can't take anything at face value...

a war that kerry voted for. twice. he has had a very negative influence on the senate.

assumptions? the kgb, mi6, and the cia do not make "assumptions". they had clear and concise evidence toward war, that they gave to bush.

that international objection is moot point. bush went to the UN repeatedly, but the organization is so broken and ineffective, eventually we have to do whats int he best interest of our national security.

So, the best interest of our national security is to attack someone that is no threat to us (and risk pissing off lots of potential terrorists)?

BTW: All of the satellite imagery and testimony used to "prove" they had WMDs was based on guess what... that's right... assumptions. The evidence was far from "clear and concise."

You also have to remember, I will be voting for my country too (the US). Foreign policy is not the only thing I have to consider when voting this coming November.

Plus, you are assuming that the other canididate (Kerry) is better than Bush. Shouldn't make assumptions. Now that I think about it, Kerry hasn't mentioned anything about would he would do with foreign policy.

I take my voting very seriously. To be perfectly honest, I am starting to doubt Kerry more and more. I want to see more detailed policy ideas if he was elected. Right now, we have Kerry's Vietnam record and that is about it.

How about you go read about his policies instead of expecting them to be spoon-fed to you through television?

http://www.johnkerry.com/index.html

Click on one of the links under "Plan for America" on the left. That will give an overview of the subject and links to more in-depth discussion on the right side of the page.

Honestly, I've never been to johnkerry.com and I found that in like 5 seconds. Quit being so helpless.




This last part is to everyone:

Both sides need to avoid character assassination. Ignore Kerry's service record and Bush's missing service records. Ignore Kerry's flip-flopping and Bush's flip-flopping. Those arguments don't work because both candidates are bad in those areas. Keep the discussion on the issues.