Bush orders Marines to Haiti

[Direwolf]

Certainly. But at this point it just turns into a game of numbers and averages. Theres no real point in arguing it since theres no real answers to be had.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Are you kidding? We spend more on our military than the next five countries combined. The United States has the largest, best equipped, thoroughly-trained, most modern military in the entire world. This is the primary reason we are the SOLE superpower left on Earth.

If the United States military brought its full force to bear, it could defeat Russia and China with a hand tied behind our back and be home in time for cocktails. I think YOU need to do some research.

Here, I'll start you off. http://www.cdi.org/issues/wme/spendersfy04.html

Well, that certainly was an uneducated post.

Best equipped, thoroughly-trained, most modern is true. But, it still isn't the largest.
Also, keep in mind the Chinese are Communist, and can call civilians into duty forcefully. The Chinese govt. has even boasted the thought of spawning a 200 million man Civilian Army.

Cybersh33p, and Direwolf: Thanks for the hilarious support!

 

[DarkStar]

Technically China is a super power (they do have stockpiled nuclear weapons & one hell of an army)

I don't agree with America's army being the most thoroughly trained, generally on the size of the army to the standard of the training perhaps, but overall there are countries out there that might have smaller army's but train their soldiers better.

Other coutries that have stockpiled nuclear weapons:

England
France
Russia
Israel
India
Pakistan

Having nukes doesn't make you a superpower. Really, go to any political science professor and they will tell you that the US is the sole superpower in the world. I'm not making this up people. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union it has been us and nobody else. I'm an IPE major (International Political Economy) so I know a little about which I speak. China is indeed on the cusp of becoming a superpower but they are not there now. China just doesn't have the economic chutzpah to take on the United States quite yet. Seriously, who controls just about every international institution out there? The World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, the World Health Organization? ETC? The answer - THE UNITED STATES.

As for the US not having the best trained military. You are right on this point. One nation has a better trained military force - Israel.

 

[JonTheCanuck]

yeah, israel is definately a strong army for its size. Considering every time they go out they're in it for real. Very experienced bunch.

 

[DarkStar]

Well, that certainly was an uneducated post.

Best equipped, thoroughly-trained, most modern is true. But, it still isn't the largest.
Also, keep in mind the Chinese are Communist, and can call civilians into duty forcefully. The Chinese govt. has even boasted the thought of spawning a 200 million man Civilian Army.

Read my last two posts bro. And let me ask you this - Lets say that China were to draft 200 million people into their army just for kicks. What would they do with those people? How would they transport them? What would they be armed with? It would be a logistical nightmare! They couldn't really go anywhere, they'd essentially be landlocked.. And this is why you should never get into a land war in China if you can avoid it because you'll lose. We have learned this lesson countless times, most recently from the Princess Bride.

EDIT: Oh...and did you click on that link I gave you? No? Here's a quote:

"For 45 years of the Cold War we were in an arms race with the Soviet Union. Now it appears we're in an arms race with ourselves."

Admiral Eugene Carroll, Jr., U.S. Navy (Ret.)
Deputy Director
Center for Defense Information

 

[Direwolf]

"You've just committed one of the classic errors in history! The first is never get in a landwar in Asia, but only slightly behind that is never go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line!"

 

[DarkStar]

"You've just committed one of the classic errors in history! The first is never get in a landwar in Asia, but only slightly behind that is never go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line!"

Yes....that is it. Thank you.

 

[Direwolf]

Its likely closer to a paraphrase than the actual quote, but close enough.
Ahahahaahhahahahahaha*falloverdead*
Stop saying that!

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Read my last two posts bro. And let me ask you this - Lets say that China were to draft 200 million people into their army just for kicks. What would they do with those people? How would they transport them? What would they be armed with? It would be a logistical nightmare! They couldn't really go anywhere, they'd essentially be landlocked.. And this is why you should never get into a land war in China if you can avoid it because you'll lose. We have learned this lesson countless times, most recently from the Princess Bride.

EDIT: Oh...and did you click on that link I gave you? No? Here's a quote:

"For 45 years of the Cold War we were in an arms race with the Soviet Union. Now it appears we're in an arms race with ourselves."

Admiral Eugene Carroll, Jr., U.S. Navy (Ret.)
Deputy Director
Center for Defense Information

I'm quite sure every country has something another doesn't know about.
I never said they were a superpower, just that they had a big army,...and that they could forge a larger one if they wished.

 

[0|_|tl@no|ish]

And I believe it is a crime. If we took a fraction of what we spend on guns and devoted it to education, maybe I wouldn't have to explain these things to people.

I think it’s interesting to note that everyone constantly states that if we were to spend just a little bit of what we spend on military spending on education everything will be better, and I beg to differ. One fact that most people never hear when politicians (democrats and republicans both) say increase spending on education is that the United States of America spends the most of all countries in the world on education yet we still retain failing schools. In my opinion the biggest problem is that we currently think that if spending increases education increase but it is so far from the truth. I live in Ohio (for those of you outside of the country it’s in the top, mid-east of America right down stairs from Canada. The largest problem in my city, and in fact I think in most places inside the United States, is that when a school system runs into problems they immediately run to the tax payers and ask for a levy and than go out and put commercials (where they get the money I have no idea) saying it was increase community bonds etc etc etc. Every time a levy is passed my property tax (since that is our target for levies, many other cities use sales tax and other areas but lets just continue with my example) goes up, but the money never gets to where it belongs it seems. When I was helping out the head of the history department she told me how they had to fight with the school board so that they can hopefully get new books or anything else they need with the new tax money. On my way out of the school I waved to an old teacher who was driving out in his car which was an old Chevy from maybe 1990, in his spot pulled up an administrator with his new black glossy Mercedes. I think the answer to the situation is to reorganize school systems that the money is not bottle-necked on the bureaucracy side and shift the full wait of the tax money being spent (remember we spend the most in the world) back into the school rooms. *steps down from the soap box*

Oh yeah.. about the military. Logistically we have the highest tech, highest trained, highest paid, and the best equipped army in the world. Our numbers are not that large but in 1991 it didn’t matter that much when going against Iraq. At the time the militaries largest worry was that they were going up against possibly (was) the 4th largest army in the world. But we all know what happened in the liberation of Kuwait (We never really dove into Iraq in the first gulf war, probably the biggest crime against humanity since Cambodia because Saddam brutally crushed the rebel uprisings in Iraq. The population believed that we were going to move into Iraq and removed Saddam and his horror twins Uday and Qusay. But you never heard that on the news, nor the amazing amounts of mass graves uncovered daily… I guess it’s not news.).

As for friendly fire incidents, there is no worse position for a soldier to be in when he knows he could possibly be in danger of losing his life or those of his fellow soldiers if he fails to act. Using the example of the poor souls of the British soldiers who lost their lives when an American warplane dropped a bomb on them, put yourself in their position. Its sortie day for you, briefing before take-off told you of warnings of shoulder mounted missile weapons being fired upon helicopters and other air-planes and in some cases actually downing the vehicle and killing fellow servicemen. That you are now stuck in the position of not acting and someone dies whether it is you or your buddy. Identification is something you cannot always wait for (Like in the first gulf war when an Apache pilot and gunner were flying support for an American light tank group accidentally fired upon a small group vehicles that they though were trying to flank the column. As it turned out the wind had been slowly pushing the Apache to the west and brought it upon the side of the column which they thought was still the front line.)

 

[DarkStar]

I think the answer to the situation is to reorganize school systems that the money is not bottle-necked on the bureaucracy side and shift the full wait of the tax money being spent (remember we spend the most in the world) back into the school rooms.

I couldn't agree with you more. There are probably nearly as many bereaucrats as there are teachers working in my local public school system. Reorginization is badly needed.

My point about the military spending remains however. What if we were to take a fraction of what we spend now (like 2% or something), and put it towards a program that could help people in their daily lives? That's 6 billion dollars. I personally believe that the government CAN improve people's lives when it commits itself appropriately. Guess I'm just an old-school liberal in that sense.

Very good post though. And welcome to HL2.NET!

 

[Korgoth]

Well you guys strayed off topic so I want to jump back in
I'm sure we could feed the entire African continent with a fraction of our military and defense spending. Imagine a world where there were no weapons, and all that tax money we all pay went to cloth feed and house the needy at home and abroad. Ah, wouldn't that be sweet. And i'm sure we have some secret weapons no one knows about, like biological agents that attack only a certain race of people or something like that. Really think about what we could have, they say the weapons and technology the military have secret are 40 or 50 years ahead of what you see them use now (could be more) we are just waiting for the right moment!!!!!!!!!! /retard uh I mean /rant

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

This topic has gotten out of hand.