Bush's False Case For War

[Bodacious]

OK, you just ignored what I said. Meaning you lose this one. I already pointed out how the fact we went to war has nothing to do with it. WE STILL PROFITED FROM THIS AS MUCH AS ANYONE ELSE; CHENEY DID. The fact we went in to Iraq is because Bush wanted to; other countries saw the faulty intelligence and didn't want to go it. Are you telling me the entire world is opposed to the war because they are all profiting from the oil for food scandal. You are so full of shit buddy. And stop trying to spin this in circles by replying that we still went in to Iraq; it will make you look like an ass.

And I am supposed to believe you because your sources are people who had an interest in the US not going into Iraq? I think I am going to take the word of Americans before I do foreigners.

Twist the congressional resolution to go to war all you want, the resolution is a historical document and no amount of spin you try and put on it will change the fact that it cited humanitarian reasons to go to war.

Do you really think I care if you think I lost an argument? You refuse to acknowledge my answers and you belittle me every chance you get. Think I am wrong all you want, but the majority is on my side. I think Zel Miller and a lot of other democrats who voted for Bush know way more than you. I will take their word long before I take yours.

I don't have to make you do anything. I just proved that you have no clue what you are talking about since you won't respond and will support Bush blindly no matter how much he lies to you or how wrong he is. Meaning you are nothing more than a liar and partisan hack.

See what I mean? "Nothing But a liar and partisan hack."

You can give them every fact in the world and they're going to have a mantra rooted in their emotional hatred for George Bush that they will fire right back at you. You will not permeate. There's a boundary around their brain that doesn't allow anything factual in if it concerns Bush and good news, or the country and good news. They simply won't allow it in. They won't process it. They won't think about it. They will simply react by calling you names: A mind-numbed robot or you're stupid or you're an idiot or you're a partisan or whatever

*smiles*

Again, a load of shit coming from you, what a suprise. You said that all the intelligence at the time showed Saddam had WMDs. I show you how everyone in the world at the time thought this evidance was weak (as it was since we now know) and you give me this shit that it isn't intelligence.

And I am supposed to take your word for it? Source? None yet...

There is no point debating anything else with you. You can not address facts even if they slap you directly in the face. Then you claim I pull facts out of my ass. I think I proved my point and I hope you know anyone reading this thread knows you have absolutely no credibility as many members have already pointed out in other threads. Bye.

Good for you and good for thsoe pepole. It is no wonder those same people subscribe to the same doctrine of beleifs you do.

 

[Bodacious]

This proves you are a LIAR that will repeat disproven LIES over and over again no matter how many times people point out you are wrong. I would like to point you to this thread:

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69992&page=6&pp=15&highlight=sign

Look at stern's post asking "why did you sign this". It shows exactly why his opinion means a lot and you quoted it so I know you saw it; however, you never gave a response since you were proved wrong. Again, you have absolutely no credibility what so ever and this proves debating with you is a total waste of time as you will repeat the same old talking points over and over again that we already pointed out to you were false.

So go away then. Like I care. No skin off my back.

 

[Bodacious]

:stare:


Again, ignoring the point. I am not going to waste time debating with you; I will simply point out every time you try to spin or you ignore a simple point.

Read what jondy quoted. I am sorry your bridge the gap betweedn Al-Aqaed and 9/11. I am intelligent enough not to do that.

If you think that is what Bush meant when he said ties to Al-Qaeda then that it an assumption. And we all know assumptions are fact, right?/sarcasm

 

[jondy]

Bodacious
And I am supposed to take your word for it? Source? None yet...

Actually, No Limit gave a source on the first page.

 

[Bodacious]

Yeah, because fifty, oh, shit, sorry Nolimit, seventy percent of America is leftwing.

.

Seeing as you don't have a source for those polls then I am supposed to take your word for it? Coming from a person who thinks a constitutional ammendment from the late 1800s has to do with an act mad in 1935, I am not going to believe anything you say.

So, source?

I remember this poll, and what it said, but I doubt your interpritation of it.

 

[No Limit]

Zel Miller

'Zel Miller' a democract? I thought you might be talking about 'Zell Miller' and simply made a typo but that can't be as Zell Miller is hardly a democrat. When asked on Hannity & Colmes what issues he agrees with the Democrats on he couldn't show one single issue. Yeah, what a democrat.

See what I mean? "Nothing But a liar and partisan hack."

yeah, I gave my reasons for why you are and you haven't been able to disprove it. You are still nothing but a liar and a partisan hack. I like how you ignored the post where I pointed this out directly.

And I am supposed to take your word for it? Source? None yet...

For christ sake, look at my original post smart one. It is nothign but soruces.

Good for you and good for thsoe pepole. It is no wonder those same people subscribe to the same doctrine of beleifs you do.

Harldy. I would like to see one credible person on this board that agrees with you. This can't happen as everything you said has been proven to be not credible.

So go away then. Like I care. No skin off my back.

If you don't care that you are a liar that's cool, I just want other people to care which is why I pointed it out.

 

[No Limit]

Actually, No Limit gave a source on the first page.

Don't waste you time, the only argument he can provide is the crappy source argument even if you do provide one. As he just proved in his reply to you by asking you for another source.

 

[Bodacious]

Actually, No Limit gave a source on the first page.

Go look at his post again. First source was Bush saying he thought WMDs would be found. Second one was Iraqi ambassador to the UN saying they didn't have any. 3rnd and fourth were Elbaradai saying he needed more time and that the investigation was ongoing. Nothing about "the rest of the world thought the intelligence was weak."

 

[No Limit]

Go look at his post again. First source was Bush saying he thought WMDs would be found. Second one was Iraqi ambassador to the UN saying they didn't have any. 3rnd and fourth were Elbaradai saying he needed more time and that the investigation was ongoing. Nothing about "the rest of the world thought the intelligence was weak."

:stare: :stare: :stare: :stare: :stare:

What is wrong with you. I showed you how the IAEA, Blix, and many others doubted the 'intelligence' and as we know they were proven right. See how you are full of crap?

 

[Bodacious]

'Zel Miller' a democract? I thought you might be talking about 'Zell Miller' and simply made a typo but that can't be as Zell Miller is hardly a democrat. When asked on Hannity & Colmes what issues he agrees with the Democrats on he couldn't show one single issue. Yeah, what a democrat.

Doesn't change the fact he is a registered democtat does it?

yeah, I gave my reasons for why you are and you haven't been able to disprove it. You are still nothing but a liar and a partisan hack. I like how you ignored the post where I pointed this out directly.

I could give you a million reasons and you won't accept any of them

Harldy. I would like to see one credible person on this board that agrees with you. This can't happen as everything you said has been proven to be not credible.

If anyone agreed with me you would label them as not credible.

If you don't care that you are a liar that's cool, I just want other people to care which is why I pointed it out.

Because othe people on a message board matter sooooo much!

 

[Bodacious]

:stare: :stare: :stare: :stare: :stare:

What is wrong with you. I showed you how the IAEA, Blix, and many others doubted the 'intelligence' and as we know they were proven right. See how you are full of crap?

And you would rather blame Bush than see the obvious intelligence failures. See how you are full of crap?

 

[No Limit]

Doesn't change the fact he is a registered democtat does it?

I'm sorry, I fell off my chair when I heard that from laughter. So if I mark Republican on my voter registration I am a republican. What an idiotic thing to say (I'd call you an idiot directly but I'd get a warning).

I could give you a million reasons and you won't accept any of them

I showed you a direct example of Stern proving you wrong and then you repeating it in this thread. You are nothing but a liar and a partisan hack.

If anyone agreed with me you would label them as not credible.

Prove it.

Because othe people on a message board matter sooooo much!

It doesn't matter what you think of them. I simply want everyone to know that everything that comes out of your mouth is a lie and I want them to take it with a grain of salt. There is a chance some poor bastard might actually listen to you; it won't happen now.

 

[No Limit]

And you would rather blame Bush than see the obvious intelligence failures. See how you are full of crap?

Again, that made me laugh. Yes, I blame Bush because the world was telling him this intelligence was questionable yet he used it and said it was credible. This is why Bush needs to be blamed but you fail to see it.

You say I don't have a source. I prove you wrong. You again say I don't have a source and again I prove you wrong. You then spin it to say this isn't Bush's fault. Again, I prove you wrong and you just spin it.

I would just like to add that if I seem angry at you I am. I don't appreciate people saying I pull stuff out of my ass without any back up. I came in to this debate hoping to have a mature debate with you; you decided to insult me. So from now on I will not let you get away with any idiotic statements simply because I am tired of it as I have in the past.

 

[jondy]

Yeah, it gets kindof lame after a while. I'm going out. Hear that? Going out. :dozey:

I'll check back later, to provide more questionable sources and polarized views

Heh

 

[Bodacious]

I'm sorry, I fell off my chair when I heard that from laughter. So if I mark Republican on my voter registration I am a republican. What an idiotic thing to say (I'd call you an idiot directly but I'd get a warning).

Go take a government class. there are judges here who are registered democrats but are as conservative as they come.

I showed you a direct example of Stern proving you wrong and then you repeating it in this thread. You are nothing but a liar and a partisan hack.

See my signature.

Prove it.

If anyone agreed with me they would have the same ideal I do, correct? You called me uncredible, what would stop you from calling them uncredible, seeing as how their beliefs were just the same as mine?

It doesn't matter what you think of them. I simply want everyone to know that everything that comes out of your mouth is a lie and I want them to take it with a grain of salt. There is a chance some poor bastard might actually listen to you; it won't happen now.

Because people on a message board matter sooooo much.

 

[Bodacious]

I would just like to add that if I seem angry at you I am. I don't appreciate people saying I pull stuff out of my ass without any back up. I came in to this debate hoping to have a mature debate with you; you decided to insult me. So from now on I will not let you get away with any idiotic statements simply because I am tired of it as I have in the past.

You have warnings for insulting me, so don't try and pull that crap.

Don't pull stuff out of your ass? How about that retarded quote from the constitution in the other thread?

 

[No Limit]

See my signature.

That coming from Limbaugh. Please, you are making me laugh so hard that my coworkers are looking at me funny. That's like Hitler calling Saddam a bad guy for human rights violations.

http://mediamatters.org/archives/search.html?string=Limbaugh

I won't resort to adding anything in my signature that shows exactly how you are a partisan hack and liar; I have more class than that. I suspect this thread will be closed but I will be the bigger man and simply end this right here; I made my point.

 

[No Limit]

Don't pull stuff out of your ass? How about that retarded quote from the constitution in the other thread?

You mean the one you still haven't responded to?

Forget it, I said I won't bother and I mean it this time.

 

[CptStern]

And I am supposed to believe you because your sources are people who had an interest in the US not going into Iraq? I think I am going to take the word of Americans before I do foreigners.

.

so you're saying all these countries had an financial interest in the US not invading iraq?



Algeria
Andorra
Antigua and Barbuda
Argentina
Armenia
Austria
Bahamas
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belarus
Belgium
Belize
Benin
Bhutan
Bolivia
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Botswana
Brazil
Brunei
Burkina Faso
Burundi
Cambodia
Cameroon
Canada
Cape Verde
Central African Republic
Chad
Chile
Comoros
Congo (Brazzaville)
Congo, Democratic Republic of the
Côte d'Ivoire
Croatia
Cuba
Cyprus
Djibouti
Dominica
East Timor
Ecuador
Egypt
Equatorial Guinea
Fiji
Finland
Gabon
Gambia, The
Ghana
Greece
Grenada
Guatemala
Guinea
Guinea-Bissau
Guyana
Haiti
India
Indonesia
Iran
Ireland
Israel
Jamaica
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kenya
Kiribati
Korea, North
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Lebanon
Lesotho
Liberia
Libya
Liechtenstein
Luxembourg
Madagascar
Malawi
Malaysia
Maldives
Mali
Malta
Mauritania
Mauritius
Mexico
Moldova
Monaco
Morocco
Mozambique
Myanmar
Namibia
Nauru
Nepal
New Zealand
Niger
Nigeria
Norway
Oman
Pakistan
Papua New Guinea
Paraguay
Peru
Qatar
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and The Grenadines
Samoa
San Marino
Sao Tome and Principe
Saudi Arabia
Senegal
Serbia and Montenegro
Seychelles
Slovenia (613)
Somalia
South Africa
Sri Lanka
Sudan
Suriname
Swaziland
Sweden
Switzerland
Syria
Taiwan
Tajikistan
Tanzania
Thailand
Togo
Tonga
Trinidad and Tobago
Tunisia
Turkmenistan
Tuvalu
United Arab Emirates
Uruguay
Vanuatu
Vatican City
Venezuela
Vietnam
Western Sahara
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe


while not all are UN members, you get the picture

 

[burner69]

Bodacious; My apologies, the 45min claim, it seems, was made purely by Blair. It was all over the Brittish press for weeks, and I assumed the US would be getting the same treatment.

Right, the 9/11 link.
Bush constantly gave speeches leading up to Iraq that linked him to Al Quaeda, saying he worked with them, helped them etc. That's the same Al Quaeda that attacked the US on 9/11. Because the American, and no doubt Brittish people were being shown time and time again that Saddam was working with Al Quaeda, and we were being told Al Quaeda was a giant organised global terrorist network, people made the simple assumption that Saddam was involved with helping with 9/11.

70% of the US people believing this shows the extent that Bush's tactics of misinformation shaped the view of the public.

And whichever way you look at it, the war was illegal. You need hard evidence that a country has WMDs and is willing to use them before attacking. Bush had none of those two, although he did like to pretend with his speeches about Saddam being "jealous of our freedom" and being "addcited" to weapons of mass destruction.

 

[Bodacious]

Bodacious; My apologies, the 45min claim, it seems, was made purely by Blair. It was all over the Brittish press for weeks, and I assumed the US would be getting the same treatment.

All this hatred towards me (not by you specifically, burner) based on all kinds of stuff and look what we have here. 45 min thing was used as ammunition to asault me and look at this claim now. I actually get an apolgy and, !!!!!, I was right!

Right, the 9/11 link.
Bush constantly gave speeches leading up to Iraq that linked him to Al Quaeda, saying he worked with them, helped them etc. That's the same Al Quaeda that attacked the US on 9/11. Because the American, and no doubt Brittish people were being shown time and time again that Saddam was working with Al Quaeda, and we were being told Al Quaeda was a giant organised global terrorist network, people made the simple assumption that Saddam was involved with helping with 9/11.

But you can't give a source citing a Bush speech saying that Saddam had anyting to do with 9/11, can you?

70% of the US people believing this shows the extent that Bush's tactics of misinformation shaped the view of the public.

No source for this poll either.

And whichever way you look at it, the war was illegal. You need hard evidence that a country has WMDs and is willing to use them before attacking. Bush had none of those two, although he did like to pretend with his speeches about Saddam being "jealous of our freedom" and being "addcited" to weapons of mass destruction.

Intelligence failures. At the time it was hard evidence. Now its not. Itelligence failures.

 

[Bodacious]

That coming from Limbaugh. Please, you are making me laugh so hard that my coworkers are looking at me funny. That's like Hitler calling Saddam a bad guy for human rights violations.

http://mediamatters.org/archives/search.html?string=Limbaugh

I won't resort to adding anything in my signature that shows exactly how you are a partisan hack and liar; I have more class than that. I suspect this thread will be closed but I will be the bigger man and simply end this right here; I made my point.

Yes, and opinions are fact, the sky is red, not blue, and Jon Kerry is president.

 

[CptStern]

hey I'm getting a little lonely here ...I've posted twice bodacious but you'd rather spend your time hounding No Limit and Burner ...I'm feeling neglected boo hoo ;(

 

[No Limit]

Here is your soruce that would have taken you 10 seconds to look up on google with the keyword "poll 70 americans saddam 9/11'. Am I still pulling stuff out of my ass?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-09-06-poll-iraq_x.htm

 

[Bodacious]

so you're saying all these countries had an financial interest in the US not invading iraq?
while not all are UN members, you get the picture

France, Germany, and some other had a financial interest in keeping us out and they were the ones who would have vetoed a war resolution.

Coincedence? Sure, but conincedences got Scott Peterson the death penalty.

 

[CptStern]

France, Germany, and some other had a financial interest in keeping us out and they were the ones who would have vetoed a war resolution.

Coincedence? Sure, but conincedences got Scott Peterson the death penalty.

any fool can see that ...actually if you look into foreign companies in iraq you'll see that the UK, the US, China, france, russia, germany alll had huge contracts in iraq ...seems like someone wanted a bigger slice of the pie

 

[No Limit]

Yes, and opinions are fact, the sky is red, not blue, and Jon Kerry is president.

What opinions are you takling about? I just gave you a link that shows 25 pages of factual lies Rush has made.

 

[No Limit]

any fool can see that ...actually if you look into foreign companies in iraq you'll see that the UK, the US, China, france, russia, germany alll had huge contracts in iraq ...seems like someone wanted a bigger slice of the pie

Yeah, including Cheney. Lots of people around the world was profiting from Saddam, it has nothing to do with support for the war as the individual people in these countries never made a penny of the corruption and still don't support the war. I remember reading somewhere the the government is a representation of its people; I could be wrong. :hmph:

The problem is he will ask me for a source on this even though I already gave him one in another thread.

 

[burner69]

All this hatred towards me (not by you specifically, burner) based on all kinds of stuff and look what we have here. 45 min thing was used as ammunition to asault me and look at this claim now. I actually get an apolgy and, !!!!!, I was right!

It was still used on the UK people to rally war support. And I wasn't using it to assault you, I try and stick to the debating where possible.

But you can't give a source citing a Bush speech saying that Saddam had anyting to do with 9/11, can you?

Extract taken from the letter from Bush, to the senate

I have reluctantly concluded, along with other coalition leaders, that only the use of armed force will accomplish these objectives and restore international peace and security in the area. I have also determined that the use of armed force against Iraq is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001. United States objectives also support a transition to democracy in Iraq, as contemplated by the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998.

Source

Also, from here

It possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. It has given shelter and support to terrorism, and practices terror against its own people. The entire world has witnessed Iraq's eleven-year history of defiance, deception and bad faith.

We also must never forget the most vivid events of recent history. On September the 11th, 2001, America felt its vulnerability -- even to threats that gather on the other side of the earth. We resolved then, and we are resolved today, to confront every threat, from any source, that could bring sudden terror and suffering to America.

Dosen't take much to make the link does it? And whether you agree this is implicitly implied or not, you cannot deny that there is at least some degree of misinformation going on here.

No source for this poll either.

Ta daaaa
http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0.asp?docid=1G1:107901845&refid=ink_pubnews&skeyword=&teaser=

Intelligence failures. At the time it was hard evidence. Now its not. Itelligence failures.

Clearly it wasn't. When so many people were telling them the WMD program had been scrapped, when there was NO evidence he planned to use WMDs against anybody. He took any evidence there was to take us to war (which seemed to be a few aerial photographs) and blatently ignored the mountains of evidence against his case.
Intelligence faliure? No. Intelligence ignoring? Yes.

 

[Bodacious]

What opinions are you takling about? I just gave you a link that shows 25 pages of factual lies Rush has made.

Your opinion that you are somehow above me and that I am some evil liar for supporting Bush.

You act like you have murdered me and am dancing on my corpse. When all that I have seen is a difference in beliefs and two people refusing to see what the other side has to say.

Keep thinking you are something special, when all this is just a chat on a message board.

I could care less if Rush limbaugh is a liar or not. He still makes good points. He still has the most listend to radio program ever

 

[No Limit]

Your opinion that you are somehow above me and that I am some evil liar for supporting Bush.

You act like you have murdered me and am dancing on my corpse. When all that I have seen is a difference in beliefs and two people refusing to see what the other side has to say.

Keep thinking you are something special, when all this is just a chat on a message board.

I could care less if Rush limbaugh is a liar or not. He still makes good points. He still has the most listend to radio program ever

See this is the problem. You say you could careless is Rush lies, since he makes good points. Do you not see the stupidity in that? How can you possibly have a good point if you are lying about the facts? So if I say Bush supported Hitler do I have a good point?

The problem is not that we have differences, I love differences as I love debate. I have dealt with many conservatives that I respect, those conservatives never said I pulled stuff out of my ass nor did they try to spin things in circles when they were proven wrong. Also, I regularly disagree with democrats; this has nothing to do with being a partisan, it simply has to do with my views. When democrats screw up I am willing to admit that.

Here is the question, how can you support an administration if you can not defend it? You have not been able to defend anything in this thread so far.

 

[jondy]

He still has the most listend to radio program ever

Irrelevant. Doesn't make him right. Everyone in Germany listened to Hitler on their People's Radios.

Enough of the rhetoric, buddy, you're digging yourself a hole.