California bill seeks to legalize/regulate marijuana

but the bible is quite clear that jesus was stoned on the way to be crucified ..no doubt to ease the pain

Jesus preached love your brother, peace for everyone shit so he's obviously a stoner

I bet he had some killer shit too ..supernatural maui-wowi laced with the blood of virgins type shit ..the kind of shit that allows you to walk on water, make wine out of water and come back from the dead
 
Eejit said:
So you reach (hear and swallow whole?) an opinion and will nevermore be swayed from that no matter what facts or arguments contradict it?
Well that's... tenacious... of you.
Click to expand...

Sure, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that I know people who both have sold their lives, and continue to sell their lives away with spoonfuls of addictions that never satisfy, and that I actually take compassion on those people. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that I fear for my friends' lives that could turn out in a certain way, or that a serious lethal accident could occur when their stoned. I'm scared.

My stance on marijuana has nothing to do with whether or not the substance itself is bad for you. If its legalized, fine, that doesn't mean I have to like it, or condone it. My opinion is not based on data, charts, or graphs. My values simply do not approve of it, which is something you people will just have to respect.
 
If it's not bad for you it can't do any of the things listed in the first paragraph.
 
What Sheepo said.

Also, what do you mean, "you people"?
 
Eejit said:
I don't think the bible talked much about MJ's legal status.
Click to expand...

"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; that which cometh out of the mouth defileth a man." (Mat. 15:11)

"Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things." (Genesis 9:3).

"The Lord said unto me, 'I will take my rest and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs.' " -- Isaiah 18:4-5

SHAZAM!
 
Stretching it a bit aren't you? :p
 
That's how scripture works :D

Anyways, if they can sell soda drinks and junk food in school, what gives them the right to limit a harmless* substance
 
They don't sell ciggies in schools though do they? ;)

But yeah if cigarettes and alcohol are legal for sale there's no justification for banning weed. Still, not in schools. :p
 
Well I'm not saying sell it in school, but just showing that if they're willing to put actually unhealthy things into schools, than it would be somewhat hypocritical to not make weed legal.
 
Eh, unhealthy as in diabetes and obesity if taken in huge excess is still a bit different from carcinogens :)
 
I forgive you.
in nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti
 
Eejit said:
I forgive you.
in nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti
Click to expand...

OMG HE'S SPEAKING IN TONGUES!!! HE'S POSSESSED BY SATAN!

<holds up sign of cross to ward off evil Eejits> ;)



jet_porkins said:
Sure, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that I know people who both have sold their lives, and continue to sell their lives away with spoonfuls of addictions that never satisfy, and that I actually take compassion on those people. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that I fear for my friends' lives that could turn out in a certain way, or that a serious lethal accident could occur when their stoned. I'm scared.
Click to expand...

do you also worry about them when they're drunk? or tired, or get a cold, take an extra dose of Nyquil and then fall asleep at the wheel and drive themselves off a cliff?

it's all slippery slope with you "I'm afraid of what might happen!!!!" you cant argue that the drug itself is dangerous due to a possibility of overdose (because it's not possible) so instead you latch on to the intangible "what if" scenario ..well there's lots of "what ifs" in this world which you dont seem to take too much interest in ...because it doesnt suit your agenda which can boiled down to "drugs are bad m'kay"? ...no really that's the extent of your argument

jet_porkins said:
My stance on marijuana has nothing to do with whether or not the substance itself is bad for you.
Click to expand...

you've been arguing that since the beginning of the thread, you're making an about face because the facts contradicted your initial statements

jet_porkins said:
If its legalized, fine, that doesn't mean I have to like it, or condone it. My opinion is not based on data, charts, or graphs. My values simply do not approve of it, which is something you people will just have to respect.
Click to expand...

fine however since it doesnt affect you in any way it shouldnt matter right?

but it does because your "morals" wont allow any other pov to co-exist. it's the same thing with abortion gay marriage stem cell reseach and ever other issue.

You're pushing your moral values on the rest of us. this is what bothers me most about religious faith. there's always an underlying desire to shape society by their moral code, their moral values regardless of how the rest of feel. this is why I'm so hard on religion and christianity in particular
 
Alright, goddamn it, I'll bite. :frog:

jet_porkins said:
As far as I have heard in defense of legalized recreational marijuana, the general argument is "Why not?" Obviously that's a very simplified generalization. However, there is no need for it, and if there IS a need for it medical marijuana can supplement that need, society as a whole I don't think will benefit from it, and all it will generate in the long run is death. IMO.
Click to expand...

There's no "need" for recreational marijuana. This is true (although I would not have much of a problem arguing that our society is so ****ed up with the alienation of labor / sell your soul to the MAN for money and security shit that smoking pot to stay sane is completely justified). There's also no need for this forum, your computer games, Star Wars, the Simpsons, alcohol consumption, etc. We shouldn't make things illegal by default, but rather the opposite. That's in response to the "why not?" - it shouldn't even be a question. If something is illegal to do, and you can be sent to jail for doing it, there had better be damn good justification for it - and in this case there simply is not.

In regards to "all it will generate in the long run is death"... well, :LOL: you know we all die anyway, right? Nothing shows that marijuana speeds that process up. Sure, smoking isn't healthy, but again, it's all a matter of perspective. Humans lead inherently self-destructive lifestyles - even breathing air, eating, etc all take a toll on our bodies and lead to its eventual degeneration and death. Smoking weed on top of that isn't going to make you die any faster, nor is it likely to prolong your life... just arguably improve the quality of it.

jet_porkins said:
Sure, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that I know people who both have sold their lives, and continue to sell their lives away with spoonfuls of addictions that never satisfy, and that I actually take compassion on those people.
Click to expand...

Very few people are so addicted to weed that it poses a serious problem for them (we're talking psychological addiction here, physical addiction is not a factor with marijuana). This sentence would actually make sense if we were talking about opiates, alcohol, nicotine, cocaine, meth, speed, etc, but we're talking about weed, which is about as scary and dangerous as a cute little bunny rabbit compared to hard drugs like those. The vast, vast majority of people who smoke don't have any sort of problem with managing themselves and their 'habit' (although for most it couldn't even be called a habit), and when they do it's generally because they're an idiot and doesn't have anything to do with the drug itself (no more than WoW is responsible for the shitty social life of the poor nerd who plays it all day every day).

jet_porkins said:
Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that I fear for my friends' lives that could turn out in a certain way, or that a serious lethal accident could occur when their stoned. I'm scared.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but this is a load of bollocks. Marijuana has nothing to do with you fearing harm to your friends. If they start smoking pot they'll be fine. Actually, if you were thinking this through properly, you'd realize that legalization would help you in this area. Pot alone isn't really that big of a deal and isn't going to ruin anyone's life - but since it's illegal, anyone who wants to smoke a bowl has to be exposed to and interact with the underground drug market. This is far more likely to cause the person to experiment with more dangerous drugs than if they could just get weed at the equivalent of an ABC store, especially given that once people realize how relatively benign weed is despite its horrible stigma, they're more inclined to disbelieve the more warranted negative stigma of harder drugs.

jet_porkins said:
My stance on marijuana has nothing to do with whether or not the substance itself is bad for you.
Click to expand...
I hate to point this out, but this either a lie or you're a complete moron who makes 100% arbitrary decisions about everything, in which case your opinion is worthless anyway. Obviously if you have a position on this subject, it has to do with the facts of the matter, some of which are concerned with how bad the substance is for you physically or as a general social issue.

jet_porkins said:
If its legalized, fine, that doesn't mean I have to like it, or condone it. My opinion is not based on data, charts, or graphs. My values simply do not approve of it, which is something you people will just have to respect.
Click to expand...
No one's asking you to like it or condone it, but your opinion has to be based on something, and since we're discussing this you need to justify what you're saying or get out of this thread. We don't have to respect a goddamn thing you say unless you give us reason to, which you're pointedly avoiding. Your value system has to some kind of rational or moral basis, which I'm assuming is at least partially rooted in reality, so statements like this are not only false and meaningless but make you look like an idiot (I say that as pleasantly as possible).

Now, let's try this again. You either support legalization for recreational use, or you believe it should be illegal for recreational purposes. You have declared allegiance to the latter position - now justify it with actual reasons instead of a bunch of vague, unfounded wishy-washy crap about your values and how you worry about your friends. That stuff's all fine and dandy but there's still gotta be reasoning there behind it or you're just talking completely out of your ass.
 
CptStern said:
but it does because your "morals" wont allow any other pov to co-exist. it's the same thing with abortion gay marriage stem cell reseach and ever other issue.

You're pushing your moral values on the rest of us. this is what bothers me most about religious faith. there's always an underlying desire to shape society by their moral code, their moral values regardless of how the rest of feel. this is why I'm so hard on religion and christianity in particular
Click to expand...

a.) This isn't about your grudge with God.

b.) I'm not pushing anything on anybody. You asked me my opinion. I did not say everyone should conform to my ideas. Not once did I carry the implication that all you heathens should burn for giving into your desires. If I say something that goes against your morals, you assume I am trying to convert your thinking to my ways.

c.) I'd like to point out that I'm pro-choice.

Gotta run to class
 
jet_porkins said:
a.) This isn't about your grudge with God.
Click to expand...

you missed the point I was trying to make

jet_porkins said:
b.) I'm not pushing anything on anybody. You asked me my opinion. I did not say everyone should conform to my ideas. Not once did I carry the implication that all you heathens should burn for giving into your desires. If I say something that goes against your morals, you assume I am trying to convert your thinking to my ways.
Click to expand...

god how the hell could you have misinterpreted what i said so badly? my point was that since you had NO logical reason to oppose legalisation and since you yourself admiited it was your values that stops you from supporting legalisation therefore it is reasonable to conclude any opposition to legalisation is an attempt to have society conform to your values ..because since it doesnt affect you in any way shape or form it shouldnt matter at all, right? ..really it's not that hard a concept to grasp

jet_porkins said:
c.) I'd like to point out that I'm pro-choice.
Click to expand...


that's nice, I'm sure there are christians who dont believe in that adam and eve mumbo jumbo ...what does that have to do with anything?
 
As I sat down this morning, eating pancakes after class, I thought to myself, "jet porkins, why are you pro-choice on an issue that's far more controversial than weed legalization, but not pro-choice on marijuana use?" I then thought about why I was pro-choice to begin with: while I hold personal reservations regarding the act of abortion, those reservations should be contained at the local level; at the personal level. i.e., if someone I know is pregnant, I will go out of my way to either offer alternatives, or advise them not to use the big "A" word too soon. Ultimately it ought to be a person's right to have the choice to abort the baby, whether or not I hate the act of abortion (the difference between pro-abortion and pro-choice).

Over breakfast I ultimately concluded that this justification should carry over into marijuana use. While I have my personal reservations, that shouldn't have standing over a person's overall right to choose to use that substance, especially since I entered the 'discussion' thinking its effects were worse than they really are - and not just that, but also considering that the effects of alcohol use (something I'm just as excited about as I am drug use) are worse, generally speaking. I stand corrected.

CptStern said:
god how the hell could you have misinterpreted what i said so badly? my point was that since you had NO logical reason to oppose legalisation and since you yourself admiited it was your values that stops you from supporting legalisation therefore it is reasonable to conclude any opposition to legalisation is an attempt to have society conform to your values ..because since it doesnt affect you in any way shape or form it shouldnt matter at all, right? ..really it's not that hard a concept to grasp
Click to expand...

Some would argue that not voting for your values compromises who you are. But, pardon me for the misinterpretation.


CptStern said:
that's nice, I'm sure there are christians who dont believe in that adam and eve mumbo jumbo ...what does that have to do with anything?
Click to expand...

I glanced over the comment and pre-maturely jumped to the conclusion that you were pretending to know what I believed. Again, pardon me for the mis-interpretation.
 
jet_porkins said:
Whenever there is a need for it, doctors prescribe it. I'm not convinced as to why it needs to be legalized for recreational purposes. Regulating it like alcohol will obviously make it more available. I know dozens of teens who drink alcohol as a result of having friends who are eligible to purchase beer; they leak through the system, making it quite accessible for them. Regulating marijuana along the lines of alcohol, IMO, will generate the same 'leakage' in the system, and I think we'll see a rise in both lower and upper teenager consumption, which is for obvious reasons a bad thing.
Click to expand...

Dude, I smoked weed long before I ever got drunk. All you need to be able to buy an illegal drug is ?20. That's it.

jet_porkins said:
As far as I have heard in defense of legalized recreational marijuana, the general argument is "Why not?" Obviously that's a very simplified generalization. However, there is no need for it, and if there IS a need for it medical marijuana can supplement that need, society as a whole I don't think will benefit from it, and all it will generate in the long run is death. IMO.
Click to expand...

The thing is, it will be the people who use the drug who die. Not you. It doesn't affect in the slightest. As for why not, well why have alcohol legal? Or video games? Neither of those serve any other purpose than recreation.


EDIT: Wait, its over.
Shit, that makes this post invalid. GG Jet, I'm glad you're opinion changed.
 
Guys, guys, he caved. We can stop arguing now and start akwardly looking around.
 
jet_porkins said:
As I sat down this morning, eating pancakes after class, I thought to myself, "jet porkins, why are you pro-choice on an issue that's far more controversial than weed legalization, but not pro-choice on marijuana use?" I then thought about why I was pro-choice to begin with: while I hold personal reservations regarding the act of abortion, those reservations should be contained at the local level; at the personal level. i.e., if someone I know is pregnant, I will go out of my way to either offer alternatives, or advise them not to use the big "A" word too soon. Ultimately it ought to be a person's right to have the choice to abort the baby, whether or not I hate the act of abortion (the difference between pro-abortion and pro-choice).

Over breakfast I ultimately concluded that this justification should carry over into marijuana use. While I have my personal reservations, that shouldn't have standing over a person's overall right to choose to use that substance, especially since I entered the 'discussion' thinking its effects were worse than they really are - and not just that, but also considering that the effects of alcohol use (something I'm just as excited about as I am drug use) are worse, generally speaking. I stand corrected.



Some would argue that not voting for your values compromises who you are. But, pardon me for the misinterpretation.




I glanced over the comment and pre-maturely jumped to the conclusion that you were pretending to know what I believed. Again, pardon me for the mis-interpretation.
Click to expand...



well ....this doesnt happen often <scratches head> ok then apology accepted ...glad we could help to steer you towards the facts behind the issue.


also I'm not sure you're pro-choice ..I mean you're pro-choice only when you cant convince them to have an abortion. ...I think you're pro-life with a smattering of "oh well I tried, not my business" attitude ..not that there's anything wrong with that ..however I hope for your sake you never get into a position where you might actually have to make a choice because ity's not anywhere as black and white as most people think it is
 
CptStern said:
also I'm not sure you're pro-choice ..I mean you're pro-choice only when you cant convince them to have an abortion. ...I think you're pro-life with a smattering of "oh well I tried, not my business" attitude ..not that there's anything wrong with that
Click to expand...

No, that is pro-choice. :)
 
well I'd say it's more lazyman pro-life

"I dont agree with abortion but meh ...what ya gonna do?"



not that this is true of porkins, I wouldnt want to put words into his mouth
 
There's a reason it's called pro-choice, not pro-abortion.
 
Wait. Wait.

What the hell just happened?!
 
I always wonder why Christians are so adamantly against marijuana and the 'hippies' that smoke it.

For one, Jesus was a hippy, and for two...

For God said, "I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of the whole earth," (Genesis 1:29-31) And Jesus said, "There is nothing that enters a man from outside him, which can defile him." (Mark 7:15) "Therefore," Paul said, "No one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink..." (See Colossians 2:16-23, Romans 14, and Titus 1:15)



It's always a case of cherry picking and knowing ignorance.
 
Raziaar said:
I always wonder why Christians are so adamantly against marijuana and the 'hippies' that smoke it.

For one, Jesus was a hippy, and for two...

For God said, "I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of the whole earth," (Genesis 1:29-31) And Jesus said, "There is nothing that enters a man from outside him, which can defile him." (Mark 7:15) "Therefore," Paul said, "No one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink..." (See Colossians 2:16-23, Romans 14, and Titus 1:15)



It's always a case of cherry picking and knowing ignorance.
Click to expand...

It's not so much that it's a drug that they're against. If you ask me, they're specifically against other Christians using marijuana. They are against using a worldly supplement to answer life's problems, they're against its only function which is to make people feel good much the way masturbation does, and that it's a sexual stimulant. Their stance is: one cannot both please God and please fleshly desires.*

*edit: I don't speak for everyone, but that's what my stance would be.
 
jet_porkins said:
It's not so much that it's a drug that they're against. If you ask me, they're specifically against other Christians using marijuana. They are against using a worldly supplement to answer life's problems, they're against its only function which is to make people feel good much the way masturbation does, and that it's a sexual stimulant. Their stance is: one cannot both please God and please fleshly desires.*

*edit: I don't speak for everyone, but that's what my stance would be.
Click to expand...

If that were the case they wouldn't be fighting so hard to ban it for everybody.
 
I really wish you guys wouldn't quote so much. I really wanted to get into this debate but I am way too high to read through everything! :rolling:
 
I don't smoke, don't have friends who smoke, but I'm all for this. California needs money. People are going to smoke whether it's legal or not; California might as well make some money off of it.

Billions in revenue. BILLIONS. Even if you don't smoke, if you live in California you'd be ****-all-stupid to say, "No, I don't think this is a good idea."
 
Darkside55 said:
I don't smoke, don't have friends who smoke, but I'm all for this. California needs money. People are going to smoke whether it's legal or not; California might as well make some money off of it.

Billions in revenue. BILLIONS. Even if you don't smoke, if you live in California you'd be ****-all-stupid to say, "No, I don't think this is a good idea."
Click to expand...

Yeah...

All that happens now is the state LOSES money by incarcerating people. The prison industrial complex makes money off it though.

I dare say crime also goes up... as these people go in non violent offenders and come out potentially more violent to the world.
 
So what do you guys think should be the legal age to smoke weed? 21, like alcohol in most of the US? 18, like alcohol here (and voting)? 16, like smoking tobacco here (nfc what it is in US)?
 
I don't know about NI but cigarettes are 18 now in England.
 
In the US alcohol is 21 to buy or consume (although it's legal for 18-21 year olds to drink at home with their parents), cigarettes are 18 to buy and 16 to consume.

I think the drinking age should be lowered back to 18, and that's what I think the age for buying/using marijuana should be too, but 21 works, I'm willing to compromise.
 
I think it should be 18. Same as alcohol.

(But then since its in America, it'll be 21. Either way.)
 
I think legalizing pot isn't a laughing matter. I find his answer pretty pathetic. Most of the people who voted for him and asked this question should atleast get a decent answer. A bit more than just "no, I do not think so". The relatives of who suffer or have past away due to the problems caused by prohibition - AIDS patients, Mexican drug cartel violence victims and so on deserve a proper answer to the serious question.
 
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