Capital Punishment

[sinkoman]

I've just realised, it's VERY hard to argue AGAINST capital punishment.

Here, pose an argument against it, and i'll do my best to shoot down your argument.

 

[Warbie]

Because it's barbaric.

 

[jondy]

I've just realised, it's VERY hard to argue AGAINST capital punishment.

Here, pose an argument against it, and i'll do my best to shoot down your argument.

What's up with all the lame, bargain-basement reasoning threads lately?

The issue has been addressed so many times here it's not even funny... run a search before Apos, Stern et al come and **** you up. But here's a starter that avoids the bullshit 'morality' that's no doubt winging it's way here- in the American system, giving someone a death sentence is ultimately more expensive than giving them life.

 

[sinkoman]

Because it's barbaric.

How so?

What's up with all the lame, bargain-basement reasoning threads lately?

Am I required to make high quality threads for your highness?

I'm not trying to prove a point. It's just a though I had, and I want to toy with that though.

 

[jondy]

Am I required to make high quality threads for your highness?

Nope, feel free to continue making low quality threads.

I'm not trying to prove a point. It's just a though I had, and I want to toy with that though.

This has been dealt with a thousand times over, run a search. But since you won't, why not justify capital punishment to us instead?

 

[sinkoman]

Nope, feel free to continue making low quality threads.

This has been dealt with a thousand times over, run a search. But since you won't, why not justify capital punishment to us instead?

Why the hell are you posting in such low quality threads, if you're such a jaundice, entertainment-requiring buffoon?

And did you read what I said at all? I'm not trying to prove a point, i'm just trying to have a little fun with an idea I had.

 

[jondy]

Why the hell are you posting in such low quality threads, if you're such a jaundice, entertainment-requiring buffoon?

And did you read what I said at all? I'm not trying to prove a point, i'm just trying to have a little fun with an idea I had.

The word you're looking for would be 'jaundiced', but even spelled correctly it doesn't make much sense. Sesquipedalianism only works when you know what you're talking about. Insults aside, did you read what I wrote? I kickstarted your debate, and I haven't heard a peep outof you since. I'm genuinely curious as to what your reasoning is.

 

[sinkoman]

The word you're looking for would be 'jaundiced', but even spelled correctly it doesn't make much sense. Sesquipedalianism only works when you know what you're talking about. Insults aside, did you read what I wrote? I kickstarted your debate, and I haven't heard a peep outof you since. I'm genuinely curious as to what your reasoning is.

You kickstarted my debate with "this argument is bullshit".

God, what is do you hope to accomplish by derailing this thread?

 

[Mr-Fusion]

If you're wrongly convicted of a crime?

 

[Axyon]

Stop reporting all of jondy's posts sinkoman, you brought this on with the attitude in your original post. Sort your problems out by PM.

 

[jondy]

You kickstarted my debate with "this argument is bullshit".

.

in the American system, giving someone a death sentence is ultimately more expensive than giving them life.

 

[sinkoman]

If you're wrongly convicted of a crime?

That's a completely different argument aside from capital punishment.

Unless you mean, you could be taken out of jail, but not back from death.

Then you could SUPPOSE that there is supposed to be reasonable doubt during your execution for them to suspend it for further investigation.

You yourself could appeal your case, or if it's too late, try to provide unseen evidence to a jury member, in hopes that he ressurects your case.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Unfortunately, I see no argument against it. Capital Punishment is one thing I agree with Republicans and Conservatives.

 

[Jintor]

You're robbing a person of a future where... no, wait, imprisonment is exactly the same. Damn.

 

[$kelet0r]

no argument AGAINST capital punishment? Are you mad?

It's
- eye for an eye justice, not legislative justice
- the rich live while the poor die
- barbaric, archaic and immoral
- costs more than life imprisonment
- defeats the purpose of making someone pay for/atone for their crime with a life sentence
- legal murder
- guilty of executing innocent men and women

If you consider murdering someone in revenge for their crime justice that is i guess everything I stand against. To me imprisonment in a working judicial system should be the ultimate punishment - the removal of citizenship and freedoms. Murdering a prisoner just makes the state as guilty whatever way you dress it up. As a citizen, I am the state and I never want to be guilty of murder either by my own hand or commited in my name. Never.

 

[sinkoman]

no argument AGAINST capital punishment? Are you mad?

It's
- eye for an eye justice, not legislative justice
- the rich live while the poor die
- barbaric, archaic and immoral

Those are all personal issues (on your behalf), and can't logically be argued as real reasons to ban capital punishment.

- costs more than life imprisonment

Completely goes against your "rich live and poor die" statement, but that was a null argument to begin with. Never really thought of this one.

- defeats the purpose of making someone pay for/atone for their crime with a life sentence
- legal murder

For each of these, I say, how so?

The first, you could argue that, as we know not what happens when you die, it's a life sentence in its own. Then again, you could also argue that nothing happens when you die :/

But still, how so?

I agree with you dude, capital punishment is sick and stupid, but i've just noticed that there aren't many real arguments against it.

 

[$kelet0r]

Those are all personal issues (on your behalf), and can't logically be argued as real reasons to ban capital punishment.

Completely goes against your "rich live and poor die" statement, but that was a null argument to begin with. Never really thought of this one.

For each of these, I say, how so?

The first, you could argue that, as we know not what happens when you die, it's a life sentence in its own. Then again, you could also argue that nothing happens when you die :/

But still, how so?

I agree with you dude, capital punishment is sick and stupid, but i've just noticed that there aren't many real arguments against it.

I would have thought that it being sick and wrong as being enough
but the fact that
it punishes the poor more so than the rich, because the richer you are the more likely you will live by indefinitely delaying the judicial process
it costs the taxpayer more than life imprisonment
it executes innocent men/women often because of racism/poverty
it makes murder by the state acceptable
Those are facts, not frivolous opinions. My own opinions that
murder in my name would never be acceptable and is immoral and as evil as the crime commited itself
life imprisonment is more punishment than any death sentence, the latter you can accept and even look forward to, the former is a lifetime of punishment.
...are hardly easily dismissed either

Whereas if you look at the arguments for capital punishment
- that it acts as a deterrent (which is proven to be false beyond doubt - gogo American gun crime)
- that it is justice (if you even morally or pragmatically consider murder for a murder to be fair and compassionate justice)
...are there any other arguments for death penalties? No. And the ones above don't even hold any water - the arguments against capital punishment are logical facts, the arguments for capital punishment are demagogic, mob-rule, narrow minded, emotional opinions. I prefer logic and impartial equity in justice not passion and revenge

 

[Bull Goose Loony]

it's more of a punishment to spend the rest of your life in a jail cell than to die.

People should be given the opportunity to change. i personally think the death sentence is necessary for some people, but it could never be managed on a "special cases" basis so it's better not to have it, if only because so many people have been wrongly incarcerated and then found to be innocent later.

also, wtf is with them still using the electric chair? it's such a ****ed up way to kill someone.

 

[sinkoman]

it's more of a punishment to spend the rest of your life in a jail cell than to die.

EXACTLY!!!

You rot and regret for all eternity!

BUT, the outcome is the same, so there is no real argument there.

it punishes the poor more so than the rich, because the richer you are the more likely you will live by indefinitely delaying the judicial process

That right there is an oppinion. As true as it may be, it is still an oppinion.

 

[gick]

also, wtf is with them still using the electric chair? it's such a ****ed up way to kill someone.

I like the way that the Bill of Rights has a bit against 'cruel and unusual punishment' yet its considered OK to strap someone down and fry them from the inside out.

 

[15357]

I am all for execution. Especially for treason, rape, and murder.


I think that its one of the wrongful tendencies of the liberal community to assume that every single person in a nation of over 200million people can be made into a productive citixen

 

[$kelet0r]

I am all for execution. Especially for treason, rape, and murder.


I think that its one of the wrongful tendencies of the liberal community to assume that every single person in a nation of over 200million people can be made into a productive citixen

but at least you can say that you tried.
Otherwise you collectively damn every person who has committed a crime as anti social, anti citizen and irretrievable
Surely a life time of punishment outweighs giving the criminal a way out by effectively setting them free while at the same time making you guilty of murder, a crime as bad if not worse than the one the criminal has been convicted of.
You call it liberal to be repulsed by death. I call it barbaric to embrace it.

 

[Bull Goose Loony]

EXACTLY!!!

You rot and regret for all eternity!

BUT, the outcome is the same, so there is no real argument there.

that's ridiculous, by that logic, noone would care about murder, because the victim would have died eventually. the only reason you cant see any arguments against capital punishment is because you use your retarded reasoning to convince yourself they aren't arguments, and when someone asks you to justify it, you can't.

The fact that you can't justify capital punishment is reason enough to not use it.

 

[sinkoman]

that's ridiculous, by that logic, noone would care about murder, because the victim would have died eventually. the only reason you cant see any arguments against capital punishment is because you use your retarded reasoning to convince yourself they aren't arguments, and when someone asks you to justify it, you can't.

The fact that you can't justify capital punishment is reason enough to not use it.

Don't bash my oppinion just because you're a loony.

Last I checked, you didn't even post a reason why I should say it's a good thing.

 

[Ikerous]

In the United States from 1973 to 2005, 123 people have had their death penalty convictions overturned.

If that's how many times we've caught the mistake, imagine how many times we haven't caught it? If we kill just one innocent person we've committed a horrible offense.

Since theres no need for it and it leads to innocent people being murdered then we shouldn't have it.

 

[CptStern]

I'd only support captial punishment if there was a decree that only 3 more prisoners would be executed and after that it would be abolished

the last 3

 

[Solaris]

Capital Punishment?
You are taking away someones life.
I few all crime as a failure of the state.
It is the states fault that person x grew up in poverty got into drugs, and had a shootout and shot someone. Had person x had a proper education, and been properlly educated he would not have shot someone.

And it's barbaric, it's a purely opinionated issue, it's hard to bring logic into it. My morality holds that all murder is wrong, be it from the state or an individual, sometimes it is nessacary, say in a time of war. But when you have the luxury of imprisoning someone it should always happen instead of a death penalty.

 

[DeusExMachina]

I believe the death penalty should be used for murderers and rapists.

Obviously, the decision to kill them wouldn't be made until it was 100% proven that they are guilty. Those on deathrow have at least 10-15 years to prove it (unless you live in Texas, they give you 4). If you aren't proven innocent by then, well I'm sorry. When you killed/raped that person, you already made your decision.

 

[jondy]

Don't bash my oppinion just because you're a loony.

Last I checked, you didn't even post a reason why I should say it's a good thing.

First of all, personal insults don't illegitimise 'bashing your opinion'.

Secondly, that's a silly way to put an argument.

'Let's let the state execute people.'
'Why?'
'Why not?'

 

[kirovman]

My main issue with it is that innocent people have been, are being and will be convicted - you can't bring them back from the dead.

 

[Ennui]

Those are all personal issues (on your behalf), and can't logically be argued as real reasons to ban capital punishment.

american government and politics ARE based somewhat in morality. otherwise things like genocides would be okay, because they ARE a rather effective matter of solving problems.

 

[Solaris]

I believe the death penalty should be used for murderers and rapists.

Obviously, the decision to kill them wouldn't be made until it was 100% proven that they are guilty. Those on deathrow have at least 10-15 years to prove it (unless you live in Texas, they give you 4). If you aren't proven innocent by then, well I'm sorry. When you killed/raped that person, you already made your decision.

How many time though is it a kid, getting into drugs and then just doing something stupid that they will regret for the rest of their life? They killed someone, but nothing can bring that person back, there's still a human life which could have a happy life if it is reformed, not executed.

 

[DeusExMachina]

An innocent man accused of murder was proven innocent after 10 years or so.

Then, he goes and kills someone.

How many time though is it a kid, getting into drugs and then just doing something stupid that they will regret for the rest of their life? They killed someone, but nothing can bring that person back, there's still a human life which could have a happy life if it is reformed, not executed.

Kids I'm still iffy about. Yes, hypocritical of me I know. If the kid was below 16 or so, I don't really think they can be held responsible for their actions.

 

[Solaris]

An innocent man accused of murder was proven innocent after 10 years or so.

Then, he goes and kills someone.



Kids I'm still iffy about. Yes, hypocritical of me I know. If the kid was below 16 or so, I don't really think they can be held responsible for their actions.

What if they're 17...18 even 19?
They've got a life ahead of them, thats good if they're rehabilitated properly.

Ever watched the green mile? Or any documentary about execution?
It's just so barbaric, it makes me feel sick.

 

[DeusExMachina]

What if they're 17...18 even 19?
They've got a life ahead of them, thats good if they're rehabilitated properly.

What about the victim? That man was a loving single father to 3 kids. That young woman was a pre-med student and would've been a great Doctor in her field. That little baby hadn't even begun to speak. etc.

 

[$kelet0r]

What about the victim? That man was a loving single father to 3 kids. That young woman was a pre-med student and would've been a great Doctor in her field. That little baby hadn't even begun to speak. etc.

that's using emotion which is wrong :frown:
the judicial system should not give a damn about the victim, but weigh and punish the crime committed. It's about justice NOT revenge
otherwise your democracyand judiciary isn't worth a damn

 

[Solaris]

What about the victim? That man was a loving single father to 3 kids. That young woman was a pre-med student and would've been a great Doctor in her field. That little baby hadn't even begun to speak. etc.

It's sad, but the victim cannot be helped.

 

[kirovman]

Also, just because your arguement is being rejected, doesn't mean "it's VERY hard to argue AGAINST" it... no, it's more like you're trying to talk to a brick wall.

I feel that most of these points against capital punishment are very pertinent.

In fact, I would even say that the very fact that most countries in the civilised world have outlawed capital punishment after debate about it, suggests that the arguement against capital punishment is very strong.

Capital punishment is mainly practiced in:
USA,
The 3rd World,
The Middle East,
States in East Asia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Death_Penalty_World_Map.png

 

[DeusExMachina]

that's using emotion which is wrong :frown:
the judicial system should not give a damn about the victim, but weigh and punish the crime committed. It's about justice NOT revenge
otherwise your democracyand judiciary isn't worth a damn

Of course. I was simply refuting Solaris's "have whole life ahead of them." Emotion should never play the part in deciding the fate of someone. I find the death penalty a good form of justice. I'd prefer for murderers and rapists to be kept in soliditary confinement for the rest of their lives, but that's considered too harsh and immoral.

 

[Ennui]

Of course. I was simply refuting Solaris's "have whole life ahead of them." Emotion should never play the part in deciding the fate of someone. I find the death penalty a good form of justice. I'd prefer for murderers and rapists to be kept in soliditary confinement for the rest of their lives, but that's considered too harsh and immoral.

Something's wrong if solitary confinement forever is considered more immoral than murdering someone (er, executing them i mean)