Cell Factor: no real difference with or without PhysX card

CptStern

CptStern

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$359 (canadian) for a physx card that pretty much does nothing for a tech demo meant to showcase it's capabilities? it's a $359 paper weight. I think it was pretty underhanded of them to tout the wonders of physx by showcasing Cell Factor, when in fact it didnt do much ..at least from a user's perpective. 1 or 2 fps difference ..that's it! what a let down

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1056037
 
You can't have cloth/liquid physics without PPU though.
 
I would never buy a dedicated physics unit for my computer unless it was dirt cheap. Some extra physics in a couple of games and no other uses outside of games make it seem like a pretty poor way to invest 350$.
 
1 to 2 frames per second extra? on average. lol , mother of all rip offs.
 
Sounds pretty bad, but I would want to see benchmarks with more games before pronouncing it useless. Not that I would be getting one anyway.
UT2007 will seal the fate of this card, I feel. If Epic can't make it shine then we know it's junk.
 
You guys are all noobs, commenting on something without even looking!

Did anyone actually look at the chart? The increase was from 15 to 17 FPS.

Going from 15 to 17 FPS is actually REALLY good.

Think about it.. That's about a 15% increase (give or take) in FPS.

Just saying "it's only a crappy 2 FPS increase" is wrong. Cmon guys.

If we were talking 55 FPS to 57 FPS, it would be a joke. But 15 to 17 is actually pretty nice.
 
NJspeed said:
You guys are all noobs, commenting on something without even looking!

Did anyone actually look at the chart? The increase was from 15 to 17 FPS.

Going from 15 to 17 FPS is actually REALLY good.

Think about it.. That's about a 15% increase (give or take) in FPS.

Just saying "it's only a crappy 2 FPS increase" is wrong. Cmon guys.

If we were talking 55 FPS to 57 FPS, it would be a joke. But 15 to 17 is actually pretty nice.
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Doesn't work like that for me. 1 fps is 1 fps! Yes it makes a bigger percent differce, but 17 is still total shit-cakes.

350$ for 1 or 2 fps? You can't deny thats ****in asinine and you could get so much more for that much. Like a X360 or a new graphics card .. for me this would give me like 150 more fps compared to my dinosaur PCI Celeron rig.

But anyway, I would expect it to do a **** lot more than 1 or 2 fps. I would expect games not to hardly run without it - type difference. Like 20 or 30 fps wouldn't you?


Pretty much the same.
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Pretty much the same framerate with or without. In half the examples, the frame-rate is even worse with the physics card! It sounds like a lawsuit. The game even says 'Ageia required!' but it works without it just the same. Selling a brick for $350
 
NJspeed said:
You guys are all noobs, commenting on something without even looking!

Did anyone actually look at the chart? The increase was from 15 to 17 FPS.

Going from 15 to 17 FPS is actually REALLY good.

Think about it.. That's about a 15% increase (give or take) in FPS.

Just saying "it's only a crappy 2 FPS increase" is wrong. Cmon guys.

If we were talking 55 FPS to 57 FPS, it would be a joke. But 15 to 17 is actually pretty nice.
Click to expand...


$350 for a 1fps increase? that's a lot to ask ....but the marginal increase isnt what's so troubling ..they used Cell Factor as a marketing campaign to showcase the capabilities of their product ..pretty much anyone who saw the video left with the impression that you needed a physX card to get that level of interactivity ... it's now clear it's not the case at all. Misleading advertising doesnt bode well for a company trying to push a new product into a niche market ..loyalty goes a heck of a long way
 
Im surprised all of you fell for this...People and the company have said that the PPU is in a bottleneck right now. Meaning it does its job on par but if you dont have a really good gfx card you will bottleneck. Plus there are many more options that will get enabled many more updates to make it better. Its still really early. Many games dont use it and the 1 tech demo TECH DEMO that uses it people are saying runs at 12 fps? Are you joking? I ran that demo without a PPU and i surely got over 50-60 fps. Shooting things around it had to have not dropped below 40 and your telling me this guy is benchmarking correctly?

**** that. Ill be picking one up, if EPIC games signed on to use THEIR physics engine they know its good, EPIC wont take a risk like that if its not a good engine. Think about that. I dont think they will risk 2007 flopping because it runs like shit with or without a PPU.
 
I'll wait for an official comparisation test by tomshardware or something. And more games using it, cause this game might suck at using the PPU (although I doubt is since it's made for it). Absolutely not buying one yet.
 
Raziel-Jcd said:
Im surprised all of you fell for this...People and the company have said that the PPU is in a bottleneck right now. Meaning it does its job on par but if you dont have a really good gfx card you will bottleneck. Plus there are many more options that will get enabled many more updates to make it better. Its still really early. Many games dont use it and the 1 tech demo TECH DEMO that uses it people are saying runs at 12 fps? Are you joking? I ran that demo without a PPU and i surely got over 50-60 fps. Shooting things around it had to have not dropped below 40 and your telling me this guy is benchmarking correctly?

**** that. Ill be picking one up, if EPIC games signed on to use THEIR physics engine they know its good, EPIC wont take a risk like that if its not a good engine. Think about that. I dont think they will risk 2007 flopping because it runs like shit with or without a PPU.
Click to expand...





here are his specs:

physX Driver : 2.4.3 BETA-1 Release Date: May 5, 2006
Forceware version : 87.25

3.4 @ 3.6 Preshott (Intel)
2gig ddr2 @ 533 (Cosair)
7800gtx @ 500/1.3 (Leadtek)
physX PPU 128mb (BFG)



please post pics of you running that demo @ 55fps

please use this as a guideline and post your results the same way the guy did:

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1029445660&postcount=25
 
CptStern said:
$359 (canadian) for a physx card that pretty much does nothing for a tech demo meant to showcase it's capabilities? it's a $359 paper weight. I think it was pretty underhanded of them to tout the wonders of physx by showcasing Cell Factor, when in fact it didnt do much ..at least from a user's perpective. 1 or 2 fps difference ..that's it! what a let down

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1056037
Click to expand...

Is it something to do with the fact that Microsoft hasn't released directPhysics yet?
 
but why would that make a difference on hardware? I mean I can understand how it would matter with software


anyways ..this is more of a case of false advertising than a 1fps gain
 
Guys, nvnews stated that the upcoming Nvidia Froce driver 90.XX will enable one graphics card to act as a PPU and one card to act as GPU,

so for all SLI users this is a good news.

:D

excellent
 
HunterSeeker said:
Becouse direct x is a method of communicating with hardware?
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the person in the thread also ran a cpu test and he says the cpu does most of the work
 
The Brick said:
Will a gpu PPU be as fast? As advanced? link?
Click to expand...

Well, it can't be much worse than the current PPU cards tbh. It just used one of the GFX cards for dedicated physics instead of graphical rendering.

Got and links on benchies for this against the PPU's, Gorgon?
 
I thought the purpose of including the PPU was to be able to enable one to add more fancy effects, not to increase the framerate? Most games are graphics, not physics limited, so I don't see how speeding up the physics will increase the framerate considerably, unless you add all the uber-effects that normal CPU's can't handle.
 
sory, no benchmarks out yet,

but here is a link for the news:

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=3635

its on vr-zone not nvnews. my bad :D

edit: there are many huge threads out there on the internet concerning this article, just type in Forceware 90 in google and look at them
 
You guys are completely missing the point. The PPU does much more than just physics, sure your cpu can handle the physics; the PPU does much more computational intense effects that would hinder your performance if you didnt have it. Which is why there is no liquid or cloth physics without it, if you had some way to have thoes effects running on your CPU you would notice a difference i would think. Sure games are not ALL about the physics for everyone, just like the graphics isn't everything for everybody; just look at the Wii as an example for the graphics part. The whole point of the PPU is what I said before, to do thoes much more computational intense effects. Now with that possibility of having better effects, games can become more in-depth. Just like having better graphics makes a better game, it will come to a point where physics make or break a game.
 
I could spend $400 on RAM that would increase my FPS more than that stupid physx card
 
Again... your missing the point. The PPU isn't supposed to directly increase framerates. Without it some phyisics effects are just not possible. (Without dramatic loss of fps) Unless you have other dedicated hardware to physics, which might as well be called a PPU...
 
TCfromBN said:
Again... your missing the point. The PPU isn't supposed to directly increase framerates. Without it some phyisics effects are just not possible. (Without dramatic loss of fps) Unless you have other dedicated hardware to physics, which might as well be called a PPU...
Click to expand...

we don't exactly know yet, just wait until UT07 hits. benchmarks + vids + SLI new PhysX technology reviews starts, then we can decide which is better, :thumbs:
 
You people and your ignorance :p

Listen to Gorgon or TCfromBN.

What a horrible way to present this story by the way. It's entirely misleading. Notice how they forget to leave out the fact that the CPU gets 2 fps less because it ISN'T RENDERING THE WATER AND CLOTH PHYSICS. That would bring its fps down to like 1 if that. Besides, the PPU is widely untested, and has only just been released.

People need to learn to think before they go believing any headline they read >_>

I blame you, Stern.

;)
 
Well at least it doesnt slow the game down!

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2759&p=1

11967.png


11896.png
 
DrDevin said:
Well at least it doesnt slow the game down!
...
Click to expand...
QFE

I saw that earlier this week and that's another reason I am iffy about this thing. Shouldn't this card be able to have the better effects and also increase performance by taking the physics load off the processor.
Like I said before though, I'm going to wait to see what it does with UT2007 before making a final verdict.
Raziel-Jcd said:
**** that. Ill be picking one up, if EPIC games signed on to use THEIR physics engine they know its good, EPIC wont take a risk like that if its not a good engine. Think about that. I dont think they will risk 2007 flopping because it runs like shit with or without a PPU.
Click to expand...
There's a difference with hardware and software man. The physics engine could be the best out there for all we know(and from what we've seen it looks pretty good) but that doesn't necisarilly mean that the card performs all that well or that the drivers intercede poorly with the hardware and software.
Just don't jump on this bandwagon until we find out it can actually roll.
 
Quixoticism said:

Just don't jump on this bandwagon until we find out it can actually roll.
Click to expand...

Good point. It's basically what the guys at AnandTech said:

As an end user, we would like to say that the promise of upcoming titles is enough. Unfortunately, it is not by a long shot. We still need hard and fast ways to properly compare the same physics algorithm running on a CPU, a GPU, and a PPU -- or at the very least, on a (dual/multi-core) CPU and PPU. More titles must actually be released and fully support PhysX hardware in production code. Performance issues must not exist, as stuttering framerates have nothing to do with why people spend thousands of dollars on a gaming rig.
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I ain't jumping on the bandwagon yet.
 
Responce to thread:

Do you have the graphical capability to run the game with that many polys on the same level, prior to installing the PPU?
 
UT2k7 has only eye-candy physics, nothing that impacts gameplay (confirmed by Epic). So basically, it'll be multiplayer GRAW.

If it doesn't help gameplay, I'm not blowing 400+ bucks on a card that, according to latest reports, is buggy, slows the game down and takes up a PCI slot. The Ageia is worse than trash, at least with trash you know what you are getting.
 
Buggy? Havn't heard that.
It can only slow the game down because all the physics mean alot more meshes which hits the graphic card. The Physics card is doing great but the Graphic Card is what is slowing down the game.

Epic can't really use it to affect gameplay due to the fact that it is a multiplayer game and even broadband connections still arn't fast enough for a ton of physics being sent across.

Now liquid and cloth physics....well your CPU might get ~2fps if it is lucky. On this thing you wouldn't even feel a hit. That is showing the power of it. Of course with Quad CPU's coming out why not just throw physics on 2 cores?
 
Dalamari said:
I could spend $400 on RAM that would increase my FPS more than that stupid physx card
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you really dont know what your talking about do you?

several people got it right on here so far...Its not how many fps you will benefit from, it soley takes strain off the cpu. It has been stated that it will not gain fps rather then helping the procesor. As Tc said, the ppu will open the door to physics in gaming. Remember sli when it was reintroduced a few years ago? It had barely any effect on fps, until games began using sli capabilities and now there are games with significant advantages with sli.
The ppu will not gain you fps, but it will enable you to use certain technologies such as cloth and liquid physics while taking strain of the cpu
 
Minerel said:
Buggy? Havn't heard that.
It can only slow the game down because all the physics mean alot more meshes which hits the graphic card. The Physics card is doing great but the Graphic Card is what is slowing down the game.

Epic can't really use it to affect gameplay due to the fact that it is a multiplayer game and even broadband connections still arn't fast enough for a ton of physics being sent across.

Now liquid and cloth physics....well your CPU might get ~2fps if it is lucky. On this thing you wouldn't even feel a hit. That is showing the power of it. Of course with Quad CPU's coming out why not just throw physics on 2 cores?
Click to expand...

Correct #1

bryanf445 said:
you really dont know what your talking about do you?

several people got it right on here so far...Its not how many fps you will benefit from, it soley takes strain off the cpu. It has been stated that it will not gain fps rather then helping the procesor. As Tc said, the ppu will open the door to physics in gaming. Remember sli when it was reintroduced a few years ago? It had barely any effect on fps, until games began using sli capabilities and now there are games with significant advantages with sli.
The ppu will not gain you fps, but it will enable you to use certain technologies such as cloth and liquid physics while taking strain of the cpu
Click to expand...

Correct #2
 
anyone else still waiting for raziel to post his specs and screenshots of him running the demo ?

also, this game was designed to demo the physx card, IT SHOULD have a noticable increase though as said, mainstream games won't until developers start using it.
 
I'm just going to wait........ heh, I see no reason to buy one of these yet.
 
I am iffy as well....but at the same time I'm almost willing to risk it sucking, just to show my support of the general idea. Even if the card itself sucks, i'd like to see it do marginally well, just to prove that gamers do indeed like the idea of accelerated physics and are willing to pay money to whoever can do it best, so as to get some other players into the market.

I mean really, I'm almost suprised at these reactions after reading all those posts here over the years bemoaning the lack of liquid physics in games, and how it would take ages to implement. The way I see this, is as a first step.....even if the liquid physics are rudimentary, it's still a start...you make those physics enabled particles and make them smaller and smaller as the tech advances, and soon enough you can do it with sand-sized particles
(or a close approximation, as you probably wouldn't have to go quite that small to get the desired effect).

I don't know......for all my ranting I'm still probably going to wait for some more reviews....buyer beware and all that. lol.
 
Where's the video of that game with the liquid particle blood and the ships flying through the cloth banners? You sure as hell can't run that without a PPU, that's for certain. Was it an e3 vid? I forget. It was nuts. The plane-crash demo doesn't hold shit to that.
 
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