City 17 view from Citadel. What were they thinking?!?!?

[kestrel7e7]

The ground texture used to represent City 17, when viewed from the Citadel at the end of HL2, is a night satellite image of Brooklyn, New York, with the Citadel near Williamsburg Bridge.

The ground texture looks like a normal, vibrant city and doesn't appear to have been modified to reflect the level of destruction of City 17. There are no signficant dark, powerless patches that you would expect in a war-torn city with a high level of destruction (as seen in the image below) and no outline of Combine Walls that featured so prominently throughout the game.

Also:
*It doesn't look like a typical cluttered European street-scape.
*There are no 'tentacles' coming from the Citadel.
*Using the same scale as the ground texture, the Citadel is no more than 0.3 miles high (it should be 1.9 miles).

The only consistent part of the texture is that the image is a night shot and it looks like a city. That's about it. :/

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

You aren't supposed to be looking this deep into it. It's just for show. :|

It's pointless to put more than a few minutes of work into something nobody is going to be looking at for more than a few seconds.

 

[kestrel7e7]

It's pointless to put more than a few minutes of work into something nobody is going to be looking at for more than a few seconds.

It featured prominently in the long tiresome elevator ascent and I found it inconsistent the first time I saw it. Valve has put plenty of effort into things that are much less prominent (or important) than this.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

I'm sure after 3 years of people playing this game, you are the first to both recognize and freak out about the city texture map.

I thought it was very nice looking. In truth, it is not detailed enough to assume anything about it. Explain how they could possibly draw combine walls onto it to make it look "correct". It's nothing but blurry lights and roads on a black background. Completely flat and undetailed.

I see a lot of blue and red light. And we all know blue force feilds and bright fires riddle the city.

 

[kestrel7e7]

View from the Citadel Lift:

The outline of the Combine Walls should be obvious because the destruction they leave in their wake would contrast with the normal surroundings.

 

[15357]

Perhaps they have lighting at the walls?

 

[Naudian]

I agree with kestrel, Valve should have tried to go for a smoking/fiery ruin look instead of just using a satellite picture of a bright city...
I've wondered about this too but never thought of it as a huge deal...now that I think about it, wtf valve.

 

[nokori3byo]

Does anyone else find it odd that, in a scene that takes place at dusk, the city is lit up so brightly?

 

[Jintor]

There should be fires, not neon lights.

STEAM UPDATE TO HL2 ON ROUTE.

 

[Asknoone]

Does look sort of daft.

 

[knut]

The longer streets look like Main Streets, full of traffic and shops, theatres, casinos, etc. :| So bright.

 

[votka]

I also thought the city view looked quite odd for what is supposed to be burning ruins. I didn't imagine the city to sprawl as far out as it appears from that view either.

 

[Iron Kat]

As usual, Kestrel, you're reading a little bit too much into this. I mean, no offence, man, but tou don't have to take these things so seriously!

 

[knut]

In all fairness the guy's just finding out some information on something that intrests him; I wouldn't say it's too serious, it's just obviously something he wanted to find out. I do it, and I see no problem with others. Although I personally would never have found the time or bother to go looking for the real layout on Google though. But fair enough to you.

 

[Asknoone]

I always thought it was a view of Seattle, not NY?

 

[Rapstah]

I always thought it was a view of Seattle, not NY?

Wikipedia says NY.

 

[Shift]

Valve could have definately set up a much more belivable landscape from the Citadel lift

 

[Xendance]

I'm guessing you nocliped on the last map before 'Dark Energy' to see this?

 

[CyberPitz]

I always wondered why it was so bright, but I didn't care. I get the cases of Vertigo really easy.

 

[pomegranate]

Just realised something (or nothing) - we never had any scenes in C17 at night, did we? Bit of a missed opportunity imo...

 

[Russian Mafia]

Just realised something (or nothing) - we never had any scenes in C17 at night, did we? Bit of a missed opportunity imo...

Yeah, I wanted to see C17 at night, too bad we were at Ravenholm when it was night.

 

[kupocake]

It worked for me when I saw it. It's been known that it depicts New York for some time, but in the few seconds you see it for, most people wouldn't recognise the location. I guess it just boils down to the lack of decent available night-time aerial shots of war-torn cities. edit: that and the fact that there probably wouldn't be much to see in a photo of that nature, certainly less dramatic than the one they used. Accuracy is not always best for the game.

 

[pomegranate]

Better for atmosphere and sense-of-place, though.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

I really don't see how anyone can expect Valve or any other game developer to spend more than a couple minutes on a huge, flat, low res texture that you see for less than 30 seconds.

What can they do? Redraw the entire picture to make it look wartorn? You aren't supposed to know what City17 looks like from the air and you aren't supposed to question what the level designers gave you. It is what it is, which is pretty much nothing but a blurry picture of squares and lights that could be anything. To me it looks as if there could very well be a war being waged down there.

Who's to say? Just because you know it's NY and you know it's probably unedited doesn't mean Valve needs to go to ridiculous lengths to make up for your own lack of imagination. :|

 

[Mechagodzilla]

It's not too much of a leap for the imagination.

Blue lights = combine technology, forcefields, etc. That stuff is everywhere in the city, and close to indestructible.

Orange lights = fires from damage / fights going on.

White lights = major main streets, which you don't visit in the games. (The majority of outdoor fighting happens in side-streets and alleyways.)


Most major light-producing things in the city, especially the combine technology, should still have power. The power is all supplied by the citadel, which was still 100% fully functional at that point, or by generators, which would still be largely intact.
Remember that it took a lot of effort, with Alyx and Gordon working together, to take down just one generator. Same with the three generators needed to power down the Suppressor with Barney. Both were pretty major battles.
Then, at the end, all those various light are enhanced because you're looking at the city for the first time at night, while any destroyed buildings would be obscured by darkness.

Pretty much all the devastation seen at the end of HL2 was from strider attacks, with a bit from gunships. That damage was specifically localized to the area directly surrounding the citadel, since the striders were sent out defensively. Looking out the windows, it is impossible to see the devastation surrounding the base of the tower, and the rest of the city is being attacked mainly by ground troops using very few non-incendiary explosives. They wouldn't create the same amount of damage the striders did.

So the point is that it works well if you think about it creatively.

Plus, folks are ignoring the most obvious benefit: you can find a fairly accurate map of city 17 on google maps whenever you want to now.

 

[kestrel7e7]

Pretty much all the devastation seen at the end of HL2 was from strider attacks, with a bit from gunships. That damage was specifically localized to the area directly surrounding the citadel, since the striders were sent out defensively. Looking out the windows, it is impossible to see the devastation surrounding the base of the tower, and the rest of the city is being attacked mainly by ground troops using very few non-incendiary explosives. They wouldn't create the same amount of damage the striders did.

So the point is that it works well if you think about it creatively.

And the Combine Walls? (that exist as far from the Citadel as Dr Kleiner's Lab)

 

[Jintor]

Oh, I forgot something: Do you guys remember streetlights and stuff?

I don't.

But I remember a Concerned Comic involving streetlights, so they were probably there.

 

[Narvi]

Streetlights were around. They just weren't on.

The combine walls are black. They might blend in quite well with the normal buildings.

 

[pomegranate]

Oh, I forgot something: Do you guys remember streetlights and stuff?

That's the exact thought that prompted me to ask about nighttime.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

Streetlights were around. They just weren't on.

Well there weren't any night scenes on ground level apart from Ravenholm, which did not have streetlights as I recall. (it barely had streets)

 

[Ridge]

I agree with kestrel, Valve should have tried to go for a smoking/fiery ruin look instead of just using a satellite picture of a bright city...
I've wondered about this too but never thought of it as a huge deal...now that I think about it, wtf valve.

I also wondered just why it is that the city has been at war for the past week, yet in the 45 minutes from leaving Barney and Dog mid-day, its become dusk and the city is lit up like Tokyo...

 

[Stene]

I also wondered just why it is that the city has been at war for the past week, yet in the 45 minutes from leaving Barney and Dog mid-day, its become dusk and the city is lit up like Tokyo...

Well, see how soon it comes night after Lighthouse Point when you enter that Vortigaunt camp. First it is day when you killl the AntGuard but then night when you walk through those cliffs.

 

[Rapstah]

Well, see how soon it comes night after Lighthouse Point when you enter that Vortigaunt camp. First it is day when you killl the AntGuard but then night when you walk through those cliffs.

The Combine probably messed up Earth's rotation by draining the water.

 

[Dynasty]

I must admit, i remember saying 'urgh, nice one Valve' out loud when i first saw it going up the lift.

Truth be told though, its just one of very VERY few 'could have spent more time on' things in the amazing game. Come on, no game is THAT perfect. Scores of 96%, 98% etc are there for a reason. I doubt they were willing to spend a day or so creating a lush 3D cityscape for all of 5 seconds viewing.

 

[Slimy Marmot]

I always thought that the change from day to dusk represented the long elevator climb up the citadel. After all, the ride was a bit short for a gargantuan structure like that. Random time transition, anyone?

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Streetlights are everywhere in the game.
They just aren't noticeable, because they're just regular boring lights.

 

[McGooTheWise]

I always thought that the change from day to dusk represented the long elevator climb up the citadel. After all, the ride was a bit short for a gargantuan structure like that. Random time transition, anyone?

Well, there is a point in which gordon seems to black out before he sees the view of the city... maybe some time passed as he went up? After all, he did fight up quite a ways, counting the elevator ride with hidden combine outposts along the way...

 

[kestrel7e7]

There's nothing wrong with an accelerated day-night cycle, like in GTA, because it makes everything more visually interesting over the few hours you play the game. Otherwise you'd have to spend more than 24 hours playing the game just to see a sunrise and sunset.

Truth be told though, its just one of very VERY few 'could have spent more time on' things in the amazing game. Come on, no game is THAT perfect. Scores of 96%, 98% etc are there for a reason. I doubt they were willing to spend a day or so creating a lush 3D cityscape for all of 5 seconds viewing.

In comparison with the general high quality of Half-Life 2's design (read "Raising the Bar"), the City17 view from the Citadel is very disappointing. It can be seen well but briefly in the lift and only partially in Dr Breen's office (but inspected for as long as you want) and on the horizon in the final moments of the game. Just because it doesn't feature that much doesn't mean it couldn't have featured more. Concluding the game at the top of the Citadel was an excellent opportunity to bring the rest of the game's odyssey into perspective. The Citadel is the focus from the very beginning of the game, it's presence suggests the game will conclude at its peak, you move away from it to Nova Prospekt and then towards it in a direct assault, expecting to be treated with a spectacular view of the city at its top. But all you get is a generic city texture, and not a good one at that. It trivialises the whole game, the whole journey up to that point. Making it look consistent could have been done with relative ease using an appropriate satellite image of a European city and some simple Photoshop manipulation.

 

[Derkaiser]

If I was the combine, and the entire city was in a uproar and your trying to supress the rebellion, I would light the hell out of the city (assuming the combine has plently of resources. Power is obviously no issue).

I'm no army general, but i would think that it would make it alot easier to supress the rebellion if all the streets and what not were lit up. Its sorta light turning on the light in the kitchen and watching all the cockroaches skuttle under the fridge

 

[Jintor]

If I was the Combine, and had no need to keep the city intact, I'd blow the whole ****ing place up. The walls can still process rubble.