Clarification: Scripted or not?

[Narcolepsy]

I've been seeing a lot of conflicting information about whether or not the E3 Videos were actually scripted. If they were, I'd be terribly disappointed, espcially because the entire idea behind the astounding quality of the videos was that they were not scripted. Anyone have any definite information?

 

[Sandman]

Why don't you try e-mailing valve software employees and see if they'll tell? They've been pretty tight-lipped lately about which e-mails they answer, but it's worth a try!

 

[nw909]

Yeah, scripted.

 

[CheapAssStrat]

Do search before posting. This topic has been covered more times than I can remember.

The conclusion that most of us have come up with is, yes, the E3 videos are scripted to demonstrate how the game will play when it's done (and not scripted).

EDIT: But keep in mind, we don't know for sure either.

 

[Shuzer]

Ok, the big debate wasn't over whether all of the E3 stuff was scripted, but whether or not TRAPTOWN was scripted.

The only time anything was ever mentioned as unscripted was during the barricade scene.

I believe it was generally excepted that that's what the AI will (potentially) be able to do in the final version.

Originally posted by nw909
Yeah, scripted.

Work for VALVe, do you? Unless you're basing it on the stolen build.. either way, all that was truely scripted was traptown.

 

[Styloid]

We're talking AI right?
I'm not sure of all the actions that were scripted (and if I recall the AI didn't have a terribly great showing in the vids) but I think the combine kicking open the door was scripted.
We do however know for sure that the rebel fighters in barricade were unscripted and the movement of the strider was unscripted. To me, if nothing else, that has some potential.

 

[Faravid]

Only thing that isn't scripted is the barney and pal's helping Gordon out in the attack against combine, remember that it was with incomplete engine...

 

[Cheetarah654]

This post, scripted or not.

 

[the_prodigy]

Scripted or not ....

WHO GIVES A FLYING F*CK MAN ! WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE ?! BIG DEAL ! Every thing in all games is 'scripted' in some way or another if u look at it like this. We haven't developed independent AI capable of thought now have we? So there will never really be TRUELY unscripted scenes now. As long as the enemies BEHAVE intelligently .... i couldn't care less if they were scripted or not. What difference if it's scripted or not man! Sick of people talking about this.

What Valve is doing is 'intelligent' scripting. That is, scenes that are partly scripted and blend in nicely. As long as it fits in seemlessly, who gives if its scripted or not. I don't think any game can have truely unscripted events AS OF NOW. The enemy reactions to the player will be dynamic (not the same stuff all the time). What more do you want?

Maybe Valve should wait till humans develope Artificial Intelligence, then make the enemies use that. Or maybe there are actually creating AI right now! OOO SO THATS WHY HL2 GOT DELAYED ! :|

 

[Faravid]

Originally posted by the_prodigy
Scripted or not ....

WHO GIVES A FLYING F*CK MAN ! WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE ?! BIG DEAL ! Every thing in all games is 'scripted' in some way or another if u look at it like this. We haven't developed independent AI capable of thought now have we? So there will never really be TRUELY unscripted scenes now. As long as the enemies BEHAVE intelligently .... i couldn't care less if they were scripted or not. What difference if it's scripted or not man! Sick of people talking about this.

What Valve is doing is 'intelligent' scripting. That is, scenes that are partly scripted and blend in nicely. As long as it fits in seemlessly, who gives if its scripted or not. I don't think any game can have truely unscripted events AS OF NOW. The enemy reactions to the player will be dynamic (not the same stuff all the time). What more do you want?

Maybe Valve should wait till humans develope Artificial Intelligence, then make the enemies use that. Or maybe there are actually creating AI right now! OOO SO THATS WHY HL2 GOT DELAYED ! :|

Yup yup... I agree actually, but go get a few beers at local bar to cool down a lil'.
Actually myself I'm bored to every theory that has to do with HL2 engine being crappy.
What we need to is wait and... have a few beers while waiting.

 

[PvtRyan]

I believe the general theory is that the scenes WERE scripted except Barricade. Most believe the AI will be able to perform these actions in the final game and this script was just because the AI was probably incomplete and/or unpredictable. A Valve employee more or less confirmed this even though he was not 100% sure about it.

But anyway, the real question is: does it matter?
And I say no, I rather have a game that is well directed with beautifull scripted scenes like CoD than a free game like GTA: VC.
But one thing is sure, the scripts in the final game can be influenced by the player so you'll probably be able to stop the combine from kicking in the door (altough I believe AI will easily be able to do this too, because Gabe said AI can follow you anywhere, lying about this would be kicking yourself in the nuts)

 

[Edcrab]

But one thing is sure, the scripts in the final game can be influenced by the player so you'll probably be able to stop the combine from kicking in the door (altough I believe AI will easily be able to do this too, because Gabe said AI can follow you anywhere, lying about this would be kicking yourself in the nuts)

Does anyone have a link to that interview where Gabe discusses the "Actor" system? I gather its basically a series of scripting waypoints that allow the AI to make their own decisions (pretty sure he indicated that any breakable could be "painted" with such a waypoint, hence references to some enemies smashing down doors and suchlike). Might include things like Antlions knowing when they can jump over terrain.

Whether the AI needs Actor waypoints to be effective, I don't know- but as everyone keeps saying, if the end result is enjoyable, who really gives a flying f***?

 

[ZoSo]

It depends on what you mean by scripted. Scripted here means that the units that are not you, travel along a certain path and they can't travel along any other path independent of where you are. You of course could trigger such actions by being in a certain place, which happens alot in Half-life.

The unscripted AI is just based on probabilities and the shortest path to the character. You can say Pac-Man uses unscripted AI because the ghosts movements are based on the shortest distance to you. If 2 distances are the same, a direction is randomly chosen.

In conclusion: Half-life2 = Pac-Man with better looking bad guys. Along with other differences.

 

[Someone]

Originally posted by PvtRyan
I believe the general theory is that the scenes WERE scripted except Barricade. Most believe the AI will be able to perform these actions in the final game and this script was just because the AI was probably incomplete and/or unpredictable. A Valve employee more or less confirmed this even though he was not 100% sure about it.

But anyway, the real question is: does it matter?
And I say no, I rather have a game that is well directed with beautifull scripted scenes like CoD than a free game like GTA: VC.
But one thing is sure, the scripts in the final game can be influenced by the player so you'll probably be able to stop the combine from kicking in the door (altough I believe AI will easily be able to do this too, because Gabe said AI can follow you anywhere, lying about this would be kicking yourself in the nuts)

Totally my view on it.

I can't see Gabe lying THAT much about this subject so I believe the actual game will be different than that of the stolen E3 demo by leaps and bounds. Did he hype the game to where some of it probably won't be as good as he suggested? Sure, but what game company doesn't do that? But it should be able to perform very close to what he said ... I have faith.

But, in the end, as long as the game is fun, I really could care less if every single event was scripted in one way or another.

 

[Pitt-Bull]

There are clearly some parts in the game that are scripted, but as said in the E3 Demonsration Video. There are scenes that arent scripted, or atleast not %100

 

[iamironsam]

Wasn't this topic already beaten to death and then spit upon?

 

[SilentKilla]

yea if i remember correctly Gabe did respond to the one guy who said he played the "demo" and was complaining that Valve lied and that it was scripted, and Gabe said that the demo was scripted to show what the final version will be like, which will be unscripted.

 

[theGreenBunny]

I don't think he ever said something about this issue. Makes sense, as it was found by people downloading and playing a stolen build of his game.

 

[Pitt-Bull]

Originally posted by SilentKilla
yea if i remember correctly Gabe did respond to the one guy who said he played the "demo" and was complaining that Valve lied and that it was scripted, and Gabe said that the demo was scripted to show what the final version will be like, which will be unscripted.

Boy, that's pretty dumb of the guy saying he had the beta...

 

[HybridM]

I think it's time to face facts. We're not that good at AI yet. If it ends up being a better experience with scripted events, then use scripted events.

 

[iamaelephant]

Originally posted by ZoSo
In conclusion: Half-life2 = Pac-Man with better looking bad guys. Along with other differences.

:cheers:

 

[Letters]

Originally posted by ZoSo
Along with other differences.

Just a few... :cheese:

 

[PvtRyan]

Originally posted by SilentKilla
yea if i remember correctly Gabe did respond to the one guy who said he played the "demo" and was complaining that Valve lied and that it was scripted, and Gabe said that the demo was scripted to show what the final version will be like, which will be unscripted.

No Gabe never said anything about this, but a Valve employee roaming Planet Halflife forums did. But he couldn't give complete clarification because he wasn't sure either or wasn't allowed to speak.

 

[Narcolepsy]

The reason I didn't search is because everywhere I looked I found people disagreeing. Apparently this hasn't changed since the last time I was here (I've been away for a while).

Feel free to beat to death and then spit upon this post - I know what I need to know.

 

[kkevin666]

SCRIPTED??

Thats funny man

It was a technical demo - thats all they had then and im pretty sure they aint got a lot more now

Hence the delay and lack of ANY info coming from valve

 

[SilentKilla]

Originally posted by PvtRyan
No Gabe never said anything about this, but a Valve employee roaming Planet Halflife forums did. But he couldn't give complete clarification because he wasn't sure either or wasn't allowed to speak.

No, I think it was Gabe. And for the other person, why wouldnt he tell Gabe that he played the beta? If I had something to ask him and I was that guy I would have told him to. 4 trillion people have played it, no sense in fining, or jailing one of them.

 

[Frosty]

In conclusion: Half-life2 = Pac-Man with better looking bad guys. Along with other differences.

Ahh, good old PacMan. Hey, maybe they'll make a HL2 Arcade Machine, so they when some newbie is camping, we can go over to them and strangulate them with the power cable.
Mmmm, LAN cafe memories...

 

[PvtRyan]

Originally posted by kkevin666
SCRIPTED??

Thats funny man

It was a technical demo - thats all they had then and im pretty sure they aint got a lot more now

Hence the delay and lack of ANY info coming from valve

OH NO! ITS A CONSPIRACY!! QUICK, RUN BEFORE THE CIA AND THE ALIENS COME OUT TO GET YOU!! I KNEW ALL ALONG GABE WAS INVOLVED IN THIS MAJOR CONSPIRACY!!!

No, I think it was Gabe. And for the other person, why wouldnt he tell Gabe that he played the beta? If I had something to ask him and I was that guy I would have told him to. 4 trillion people have played it, no sense in fining, or jailing one of them.

I doubt it was Gabe, I've seen like all the news from HL2 (well not that there was much news after the source leak) and I probably would have seen it. But hey, maybe I'm wrong.

Ah, here was the link I was looking for: http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12978

 

[Stigma]

Originally posted by PvtRyan
I believe the general theory is that the scenes WERE scripted except Barricade. Most believe the AI will be able to perform these actions in the final game and this script was just because the AI was probably incomplete and/or unpredictable. A Valve employee more or less confirmed this even though he was not 100% sure about it.

But anyway, the real question is: does it matter?
And I say no, I rather have a game that is well directed with beautifull scripted scenes like CoD than a free game like GTA: VC.
But one thing is sure, the scripts in the final game can be influenced by the player so you'll probably be able to stop the combine from kicking in the door (altough I believe AI will easily be able to do this too, because Gabe said AI can follow you anywhere, lying about this would be kicking yourself in the nuts)

And we spesificly had word from Valve that the events in the E3 videos were NOT scripted, yet they turned out to be (atleast the most impressive parts (traptown)). Isn't that kicking yourself in the nuts in the exact same way?

I don't doubt HL2 will be a fine product, I just think its a bit naive to think that they wont lie about other things when they allready lied about the E3 scripting...

-Stigma

 

[PvtRyan]

Originally posted by Stigma
And we spesificly had word from Valve that the events in the E3 videos were NOT scripted, yet they turned out to be (atleast the most impressive parts (traptown)). Isn't that kicking yourself in the nuts in the exact same way?

They only said 'not scripted' at the barricade video. And maybe Gabe said somewhere in an interview that the E3 scenes won't be scripted, but if it weren't for some geeky hacker, we would have never found out the scenes were scripted because in the final game they wouldn't be. We were never supposed to see this. As long as the end product is good, I don't care how they handeled the development process, we have no right to interfere with that.

 

[Sp00fman]

BS.

while showing the barricade vid gabe said: none of these sequences are scripted.

he was only referring to the barricade show, not the rest. It's so obvoiuse I dont believe anyone could be so silly to understand him wrong.

It's a sad world.

 

[Non-Sequitur]

Doug Lombardi clearly stated that they had the Strider sequence working with AI before E3... yet suspiciously, they felt the need to script it.

Valve has said that AI will look for "cool" things to do... sounds more like scripting to me.

Whatever the final version turns out to be, it can't be denied that Valve has said some rather misleading things...

 

[CrazyHarij]

As every artist knows , you don't judge a work-in-progress thing unless wanted to do. The e3-demo was back in July (or somewhere around that) , and they may have scripted the sequences to make sure the whole thing happened as they wanted it to happen, not having the combine dude jump through a window or just camping outside instead of smashing the door open in the TrapTown video, for instance..

I can bet 100 bucks all the fighting sequences like the ones we saw in the videos will be unscripted.

 

[Non-Sequitur]

Originally posted by CrazyHarij

I can bet 100 bucks all the fighting sequences like the ones we saw in the videos will be unscripted.

Not one bit of scripting at all? You're on. :cheese:

 

[crabcakes66]

Originally posted by CrazyHarij
As every artist knows , you don't judge a work-in-progress thing unless wanted to do. The e3-demo was back in July (or somewhere around that) , and they may have scripted the sequences to make sure the whole thing happened as they wanted it to happen, not having the combine dude jump through a window or just camping outside instead of smashing the door open in the TrapTown video, for instance..

I can bet 100 bucks all the fighting sequences like the ones we saw in the videos will be unscripted.

there will be ALOT of scripted stuff........


thats the only way to tell a story and guide the player through the game......without scripted stuff......HL2 would suck.

 

[AcneBrain]

Valve can't lie to us because the game is not out yet.

Have a nice day all

 

[Pitt-Bull]

Your answer is in the E3 Demonstration

 

[PvtRyan]

Originally posted by AcneBrain
Valve can't lie to us because the game is not out yet.

Have a nice day all

So very true, possibly the shortest argument to end this whole discussion. :cheers:

 

[CrazyHarij]

Originally posted by crabcakes66
there will be ALOT of scripted stuff........


thats the only way to tell a story and guide the player through the game......without scripted stuff......HL2 would suck.

Read my post again.

Fighting Sequences

I said those will be mostly unscripted. I'm not stupid, I'd laugh if they said the entire game will be unscripted..

 

[Chazz]

Originally posted by Non-Sequitur
Valve has said that AI will look for "cool" things to do... sounds more like scripting to me.

Well of course there's scripting. The game can't spontaneously create reaction algorithms, self-generate animations, or summon up unholy powers to create new ways to get around things.

What that line, "look for cool things to do" means, is that the AI will have a set number of scripts that it will search through. For instance, you run into a room and close a door behind you. The AI could:

A) Break down the door with attacks, if possible.
B) Kick in the door.
C) Push the table off to the side over, and jump in through the window.

The "unscripted" part means that no matter what it chooses, it's not pre-determined, written into the map that "Okay, when you enter room 32, a Combine will come from behind and kick the door in." While there will be SOME scripted things, the majority of actions like that will be implemented on-the-fly.