CNC: Red Alert 3

[Tagaziel]

Not true, they are ultimately the same universe. Kain takes part in RA games. After RA1 he went into hiding to form his massive NOD army. (im half joking)

As long as you don't try to reconcile RA2 and the Tiberian universe, we're fine.

 

[Eejit]

Yeah they may exist, but unless the Tiberium meteorite fell after RA2 then there is no need for the Scrin to come to earth.

For me RA2 is where the RA series is taking its lead from.

I believe the meteorite fell in 1995, whereas RA2 ends in the early 70's.

Anyway I don't have any idea one way or the other whether tiberium will make an appearance, all I'm saying is it's possible for EA to do that

 

[Tagaziel]

I believe the meteorite fell in 1995, whereas RA2 ends in the early 70's.

Anyway I don't have any idea one way or the other whether tiberium will make an appearance, all I'm saying is it's possible for EA to do that

The USSR doesn't exist anymore in the 1990s, as do the Allied Forces (which were a temporary military alliance of European countries with minimal American support).

What kind of game would RA be without Reds?

 

[Eejit]

The USSR doesn't exist anymore in the 1990s, as do the Allied Forces (which were a temporary military alliance of European countries with minimal American support).

What kind of game would RA be without Reds?

Uh, it exists in the 90's in the universe of Red Alert 2. Probably.

 

[Bob_Marley]

My interpretation of the C&C timeline(s).

Life's better with flow charts.

 

[Eejit]

Looks about right, simplified though. Yuri's Revenge should be a loop from the end of RA2 to the start I think.

 

[Bob_Marley]

True, but I don't want to have to bolt in The Covert Operations, Counter Strike, Aftermath, Firestorm, Yuri's Revenge & Kane's Wrath to accomidate all the information that perhaps should be there.

 

[Eejit]

Well yes, but Yuri's Revenge is the only one (so far) that actually messes with the timeline.
I believe Kane's Wrath is meant to be set partly before TW and partly after it.

 

[ríomhaire]

Given that the RA and C&C universes are entirely separate, no.

Red Alert is part of the Tiberian universe, but Red Alert 2 isn't.

Tiberian timeline:

• Red Alert, Aftermath & Counterstrike (perhaps the expansion packs with a pinch of salt as some of the missions are a little silly, but they do help it link to the Tiberian timeline: The stealth tank and cyborg tech)
• Tiberian Dawn, Covert Ops & Renegade
• Tiberian Sun
• Firestorm
• Tiberium Wars

(The ones in italics are technically canon, but I don't like to include them as such because their stories either suck or contradict the real Westwood games, or both)

Red Alert timeline:

• Red Alert, Aftermath & Counterstrike
• Red Alert 2
• Yuri's Revenge (which technically makes most of the events of Red Alert 2 never happen)

The timelines diverage as in the Tiberian timeline the Tiberium meteorite hits Earth, but in the Red Alert timeline the Tiberium meteorite is knocked off course by the sillyness meteorite.


As for Red Alert 3:
Want:

• Frank Klepacki making Hell March 3
• More B-movieness
• More unique and weird units
• RA2 style FMVs

Do Not Want:

• Attempts to link to Tiberian universe
• Trying to balance it by making the sides more similar (one of the great things about RA2 was how different they were, while still being balanced)
• TW style FMVs
• Yuri country (mind control units for Sovs are fine, but I never liked playing as or fighting Yuri's forces)
• Trying to make the story serious

 

[Eejit]

Do Not Want:

• Attempts to link to Tiberian universe

Well technically having Tiberium appear wouldn't be doing that. The Scrin should be carrying on regardless of what the countries of Earth are doing in either timeline at that point.

 

[ríomhaire]

Doesn't make a difference. There should be no Tiberium and no Scrin and no GDI and no Nod.

 

[Eejit]

Why no Scrin? Timeline changes on Earth wouldn't affect them.
They should be present (off-screen) doing the same things in both timelines right up until the LQ event.

 

[Evo]

So? Even if they are present off screen then they shouldn't be in RA3. There has not been any Tiberium so far in the RA games and I don't see any need for there to be any.

 

[ríomhaire]

Red Alert 2 timeline is a different universe. Same rules don't have to apply, even to extraterestrials. In the RA2 timeline the Scrin may have never existed and Kane was Stalin's right-hand man, nothing more, nothing less. I don't think the Scrin, or Tiberium would fit in with RA2's style very well. It would also confuse the already strange timelines of C&C games for people who are unfamiliar with them. Some people even think that Generals is tied in with the Tiberian universe.

 

[Tagaziel]

No, seriously.

Without GDI or Nod it will be just a pointless addition. Better do the chaos theory thang.

Tiberian timeline:

* Red Alert, Aftermath & Counterstrike (perhaps the expansion packs with a pinch of salt as some of the missions are a little silly, but they do help it link to the Tiberian timeline: The stealth tank and cyborg tech)
* Tiberian Dawn, Covert Ops & Renegade
* Tiberian Sun
* Firestorm
* Tiberium Wars

(The ones in italics are technically canon, but I don't like to include them as such because their stories either suck or contradict the real Westwood games, or both)

Actually Renegade's story ain't half bad, it's just the presentation that sucks absolutely (thanks due to "improvements" and detracting from the original concept). The ReGenesis Project is a logical prelude to Divination and gives additional background as to the nature of biochemical research that was done by Nod (remember the third-to-last mission for GDI?). Not to mention the Cairo Temple (which in itself is a pretty functional design) and a lot of small, but nice information, like Nod archeological dig at the site of a mausoleum with much Nod-like imagery and symbols.

As for Tiberium Wars, I consider it to be on par with other parts of the franchise (well, except for the proton lattice, but that I can overlook). Plus, they utilized a lot of what Westwood already prepared for the game and integrated it, while also providing their own story (partially).

What I loved, though, was that the game, after Tiberian Sun's failure in this aspect, truly shown that this war was GLOBAL in scope.

 

[ríomhaire]

What I don't like about Renegade's story:

• Mobius is suddenly much older (forgivable)
• GDI have Tiberium weapons
• Flying saucer was so rubbish compared to the awesome Tiberian Sun Scrin ship
• Nod having a portable ion cannon
• Nod having railguns (forgivable)
• Not only are the ion cannon stupid and physicly impossible (call down an ion cannon strike anywhere on the planet in 10 seconds without any approval of GDI commanders needed makes them a ****ing huge liability) but Nod have loads of them. The second one in the game is found in a Hand of Nod in the middle of nowhere.
• The whole sillyness of the plot and characters (almost forgivable)

It's not the overall story that I don't like, but all the stupid little details that no one obviously put any thought into.

I don't like Tiberium Wars' story because it just seems to revert everything back to pre-Tiberian Sun. Most of the cool sci-fi elements are gone with the units seeming much more modern-day with sci-finess tagged on. The sudden transformation of the very nature of Tiberium is also stupid, and makes it much less cool as well as the lack of Tiberian life except for viceroids which are suddenly completly different and retarded mutants. Also, the fact that I don't like the new FMV style didn't help like the story.

The game's only saving grace is the Scrin campaign. They have the only good cutscenes and the only interesting plot-point of the entire game

Spoiler

The Scrin already have information on Kane

They also have to only good ending.

 

[Tagaziel]

What I don't like about Renegade's story:
[*]Mobius is suddenly much older (forgivable)

Taken.

[*]GDI have Tiberium weapons

No, they don't. Multiplayer ain't canon.

The Tiberium auto rifles and flechette guns are exclusively in the posession of Nod in the single player campaign.

I'll rephrase it.

ONLY NOD HAS TIBERIUM WEAPONS IN SINGLE PLAYER. MULTIPLAYER IS IRRELEVANT.

[*]Flying saucer was so rubbish compared to the awesome Tiberian Sun Scrin ship

Aesthetics. Irrelevant.

[*]Nod having a portable ion cannon

It's GDI's tech, not Nod's.

[*]Nod having railguns (forgivable)

The development had to start somewhere, right?

[*]Not only are the ion cannon stupid and physicly impossible (call down an ion cannon strike anywhere on the planet in 10 seconds without any approval of GDI commanders needed makes them a ****ing huge liability) but Nod have loads of them. The second one in the game is found in a Hand of Nod in the middle of nowhere.

Dude. The beacon apparently transmits a high-priority override code to the cannon. Plus, in C&C and TS, the strike was instantenous.

[*]The whole sillyness of the plot and characters (almost forgivable)

It's not the overall story that I don't like, but all the stupid little details that no one obviously put any thought into.

DOES NOT COMPUTE.

I don't like Tiberium Wars' story because it just seems to revert everything back to pre-Tiberian Sun.

I guess Red Zones and Yellow Zones are pretty non-existent now, huh?

Most of the cool sci-fi elements are gone with the units seeming much more modern-day with sci-finess tagged on.

Westwood planned on doing the same thing. Besides, it's not like you can develop the mechs any further except for tacking on different weapons.

The game's only saving grace is the Scrin campaign. They have the only good cutscenes and the only interesting plot-point of the entire game

Spoiler

The Scrin already have information on Kane

They also have to only good ending.

Cutscenes are a matter of taste. I really liked them as they finally gave the impression of a conflict on a global scale rather than a local war.

 

[Evo]

I gotta be honest that I absolutely HATED the cut scenes in C&C3, they really put me off the story and the whole game =/

 

[Tagaziel]

I am shivering in excitement waiting for Rimmy to respond.

 

[ríomhaire]

No, they don't. Multiplayer ain't canon.

The Tiberium auto rifles and flechette guns are exclusively in the posession of Nod in the single player campaign.

I'm sure I saw one of the Dead 6 using the flechette gun during the SP. Plus GDI is credited with the auto rifle in the info section.

Aesthetics. Irrelevant.

Aesthetics aren't irrelevant, they augment ones' enjoyment of the game. I would have enjoyed TWs more if the aesthetics and FMVs were more like those of Tiberian Sun.

It's GDI's tech, not Nod's.

In the SP, when you get the portable ion cannon, the villager says that it was smuggled from the Nod chateau. It seems that Nod have quit a bit of GDIs tech but never bothered using it.

The development had to start somewhere, right?

I just mean that in every other game it's GDI who use railguns.

Dude. The beacon apparently transmits a high-priority override code to the cannon.

Exactly. That's retarded and a ****ing huge liability, as shown by the fact that Nod had stolen loads of the damn things.

Plus, in C&C and TS, the strike was instantenous.

That's because the ion cannon was overhead in the missions you get to use them (which is one in TD, and each side's last mission in TS) but unless they had the cannon following Havoc the whole time his ability to call down an ion strike anywhere is mad. Surely Havoc doesn't override the priority of every GDI commander?

DOES NOT COMPUTE.

I phrased that badly. By overall plot I mean project reGenesis and the Cario temple. That's not a problem. When I was talking about the sillyness I was talking about the characters who are pretty much all taken from a list of generic action-movie characters, especially the Nod ones.

I guess Red Zones and Yellow Zones are pretty non-existent now, huh?

I phrased that badly too. I didn't really mean the story, just the style of the game and the presentation of the world. Tiberium doesn't seem to be such a large threat anymore (the Tacitus, I know) and the general style of the game just seems to go back to a point between Tiberian Dawn and Sun. All of the cool Tiberium life is gone. Tiberium doesn't seem to be the same thing anymore at all. Firestorm especially had some awesome areas crawling with Tiberium life. That showed what Tiberium was doing to the planet and why it had to be stopped. That gave much more of a 'Red Zone' feeling that Tiberium Wars' Tiberium Glaciers.

Westwood planned on doing the same thing. Besides, it's not like you can develop the mechs any further except for tacking on different weapons.

The same can be said for tanks. At least mechs are slightly more interesting than tanks. And reverting back to tanks after the point was made that heavy tracked vehicles couldn't navigate the red or yellow zones (I know the terms weren't actually invented then, but it's a useful thing to call them) properly seemed cheap. As did turning the disc throwers back to grenidiers and removing the subterrainian units and cyborgs. After their importance and coolness in TS it just seemed wrong to remove them.

 

[Tagaziel]

I'm sure I saw one of the Dead 6 using the flechette gun during the SP. Plus GDI is credited with the auto rifle in the info section.

Gunner has a Sarcus R-66 rocket launcher, Hotwire a Gizmo, Deadeye a sniper rifle and Patch a grenade launcher. Which one?

Aesthetics aren't irrelevant, they augment ones' enjoyment of the game. I would have enjoyed TWs more if the aesthetics and FMVs were more like those of Tiberian Sun.

Black Hand/Confessor armours are a logical step up from the armours Nod had in TS. GDI has apparently downgraded, though I think flexible armour is better than the stiff ones from TS.

In the SP, when you get the portable ion cannon, the villager says that it was smuggled from the Nod chateau. It seems that Nod have quit a bit of GDIs tech but never bothered using it.

It's bad scripting, I don't think you were ever meant to get an useless beacon, rather something like the laser rifle. Which is another example of bad scripting, as you get laser rifles in the chateau, whereas the Black Hand conversation mentions a prototype railgun being stored there.

I just mean that in every other game it's GDI who use railguns.

Which base on the prototype they stole from Nod in TW1.

Exactly. That's retarded and a ****ing huge liability, as shown by the fact that Nod had stolen loads of the damn things.

Blame it on half-arsed map design. That's what I usually do whenever I see something like that.

That's because the ion cannon was overhead in the missions you get to use them (which is one in TD, and each side's last mission in TS) but unless they had the cannon following Havoc the whole time his ability to call down an ion strike anywhere is mad. Surely Havoc doesn't override the priority of every GDI commander?

A. It's limited by the number of beacons he has.
B. The maps are smaller than the maps in C&C where you had the ion cannon.

I phrased that badly. By overall plot I mean project reGenesis and the Cario temple. That's not a problem. When I was talking about the sillyness I was talking about the characters who are pretty much all taken from a list of generic action-movie characters, especially the Nod ones.

Havoc is a generic action hero, Nod could've had it's moments, but sadly, is underperforming. A shame, really, a lot of flavour and lore sits unused in the .dat files. Cut conversations, EVA announcements, ****ing interviews with Charles Olivetti for instance.

I phrased that badly too. I didn't really mean the story, just the style of the game and the presentation of the world. Tiberium doesn't seem to be such a large threat anymore (the Tacitus, I know) and the general style of the game just seems to go back to a point between Tiberian Dawn and Sun.

I disagree, but purely on personal prefference. We only saw the Yellow Zones in TS, except for the pretty much Blue arctic areas.

All of the cool Tiberium life is gone. Tiberium doesn't seem to be the same thing anymore at all. Firestorm especially had some awesome areas crawling with Tiberium life. That showed what Tiberium was doing to the planet and why it had to be stopped. That gave much more of a 'Red Zone' feeling that Tiberium Wars' Tiberium Glaciers.

Being a Nod supporter, I can say that TS actually shown that Tiberium is reshaping and pretty much spearheading the rebirth of the planet. It wasn't apocalyptic, it was beautiful and new.

TW is much more grim, shows how GDI meddling ultimately causes more death and mayhem than Nod. The Scrin invasion, degeneration of the new ecosystem by reshaped Tiberium all were caused by GDI.

Without it, the world would already be reshapen and all humans transformed into homo tiberius, the next generation of humans.

The same can be said for tanks. At least mechs are slightly more interesting than tanks. And reverting back to tanks after the point was made that heavy tracked vehicles couldn't navigate the red or yellow zones (I know the terms weren't actually invented then, but it's a useful thing to call them) properly seemed cheap. As did turning the disc throwers back to grenidiers and removing the subterrainian units and cyborgs. After their importance and coolness in TS it just seemed wrong to remove them.

Walkers are clunky and damn complicated. Tanks are simpler and ultimately more efficent (finally TW introduced the obvious - why not just shoot the legs off?). The excuse that tanks can't navigate was the weak one. And the grenades have rocket propulsion and simple guidance systems, you can't clear a building with a disc.

I don't like the lack of subterranean tech too, though the global tunnel system still exists. Reinforcement bays anyone?

 

[Jintor]

Really do want Frank back doing the music. Really, really want him back.

 

[Narvi]

The disc throwers were retarded anyway. OMG POWERARMOURED FRISBEE MEN!

And I bring screenshots!

http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202917963.jpg
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202917794.jpg
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202918011.jpg
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202917986.jpg
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202917858.jpg

 

[Jintor]

Hmm. Everything looks... oddly rounded.

 

[Tagaziel]

Yay, an amphibious destroyer. And a Tesla boat.

The RA2tarded game everyone loves.

 

[Narvi]

That's because the art style is imitating actual Soviet tanks. The USSR liked rounded tanks.

And I don't like the aesthetic of the Sage engine. It never got that weird grittiness that the isometric had. Though it probably works in this case.

 

[Ravioli]

The disc throwers were retarded anyway. OMG POWERARMOURED FRISBEE MEN!

And I bring screenshots!

http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202917963.jpg
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202917794.jpg
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202918011.jpg
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202917986.jpg
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202917858.jpg

wait! are those the real official screenshots from the actuall red alert 3 game? Or is that a mod?

 

[Narvi]

It's not a mod. If it is a mod it's a very good mod, and you should love it.

 

[Jintor]

Go back to Iso! D:

 

[Tagaziel]

The disc throwers were retarded anyway. OMG POWERARMOURED FRISBEE MEN!

And I bring screenshots!

http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202917963.jpg
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202917794.jpg
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202918011.jpg
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202917986.jpg
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202917858.jpg

I forgot to add: standard GDI combat armour of the Second Tiberium War wasn't in any way powered.

 

[Mr Stabby]

Those graphics look out of date, looks like Generals.

 

[Evo]

The disc throwers were retarded anyway. OMG POWERARMOURED FRISBEE MEN!

And I bring screenshots!

http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202917963.jpg
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202917794.jpg
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202918011.jpg
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202917986.jpg
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-781-1202917858.jpg

I'm waiting for something official from EA before believing they are real screens. Look...crap?

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

If those screens are genuine, there's no way I'm buying this.

RA3 needs to be done in a TF2-esque graphical style.

 

[Asknoone]

Those are fake.

 

[Jintor]

If those screens are genuine, there's no way I'm buying this.

RA3 needs to be done in a TF2-esque graphical style.

I don't know how it'd be done, but I'd hit it.

 

[Evo]

To be honest...the civilian buildings don't even look as good as for C&C3, they look Generals esque

 

[Druckles]

See why I'm so confused? Everyone's arguing about it and I still don't get it. Too much speculation.

I really am going to have to play them all right through.

 

[Eejit]

So? Even if they are present off screen then they shouldn't be in RA3. There has not been any Tiberium so far in the RA games and I don't see any need for there to be any.

I never said they needed to be there, just that they could be. Personally I don't think Tiberium should make an appearance either, except maybe as a little aside. Like the meteorite crashes while you're fighting a mission in that area and it happens to immediately get nuked/tesla'd/whatevered into oblivion.

Red Alert 2 timeline is a different universe. Same rules don't have to apply, even to extraterestrials. In the RA2 timeline the Scrin may have never existed and Kane was Stalin's right-hand man, nothing more, nothing less. I don't think the Scrin, or Tiberium would fit in with RA2's style very well. It would also confuse the already strange timelines of C&C games for people who are unfamiliar with them. Some people even think that Generals is tied in with the Tiberian universe.

RA2 timeline only diverged after/during RA1. Occam's razor would state that it's more likely that events off-planet would be unaffected by this.
Like I said, it'll probably be a moot point anyway, but I think a 'cameo' or whatever like I described above would be a cool detail.

 

[Narvi]

I forgot to add: standard GDI combat armour of the Second Tiberium War wasn't in any way powered.

Then disk throwers make even less sense. I remember concept art for the game that showed them with a big-ass powerarm for throwing. Now they're just big, unwieldy frisbee grenades.

I don't get why discs were so effective anyway. If you're going for distance, you should just use rocket launchers. Hilariously, I remember that Nod rocket troopers were actually more effective in-game.

 

[Eejit]

Then disk throwers make even less sense. I remember concept art for the game that showed them with a big-ass powerarm for throwing. Now they're just big, unwieldy frisbee grenades.

I don't get why discs were so effective anyway. If you're going for distance, you should just use rocket launchers. Hilariously, I remember that Nod rocket troopers were actually more effective in-game.

That's the point, it differentiates them from the Nod rocket infantry. I think it was a decision mainly based on gameplay concepts rather than story or what makes more sense.