Combine Vs. Imperials?

[Narvi]

The OP evidently knows jack shit about HL2, because if he did, he would have actually talked about the Combine itself, rather than the Over watch.
If you don't use a proper comparison, you might as well not have one at all.

...If I was even talking about the entire Empire versus the Combine, I would probably put it to the Combine. If we were talking about the entire Empire, I would be referring to orbital incursions by giant landing craft as occured in Episode 2. Sheesh.

You can either be ignorant and lather about the strength of a few poxy AT-AT's, or you could stop riding the Star Wars fan boy bandwagon and actually look at how screwed the Empire would be.

As opposed to lathering about the OMG awesome combine lolololol? :|

"The atomic bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima was rated at 15 kilotons. This translates to about 63 terajoules. Using my conservative estimate for TL bolts (ignoring vaporisation), a middle-sized TL bolt has about 30 TJ of energy. Therefore, a TL bolt has about half the energy of the Hiroshima bomb."

Taken out of context.

Immediately after:"Of course, with the energy required to vaporise the asteroid (~250 terajoules), a turbolaser bolt must have on the order of 3750 terawatts of firepower. The energy released would be approximately 4 times more than that of the Hiroshima bomb."

Not counting the fact that that was a lower limit. Here's another bit which shows a higher figure, for instance.

 

[Llama]

...If I was even talking about the entire Empire versus the Combine, I would probably put it to the Combine. If we were talking about the entire Empire, I would be referring to orbital incursions by giant landing craft as occured in Episode 2. Sheesh.

You should have said so

As opposed to lathering about the OMG awesome combine lolololol? :|

I try my best ^_^
Taken out of context.

Immediately after:"Of course, with the energy required to vaporise the asteroid (~250 terajoules), a turbolaser bolt must have on the order of 3750 terawatts of firepower. The energy released would be approximately 4 times more than that of the Hiroshima bomb."

Not counting the fact that that was a lower limit. Here's another bit which shows a higher figure, for instance.

That's still not exactly on the level of a continent melting attack.

I don't trust that site at all, and a huge amount of his calculations are based on total speculation and guesswork. He's about as reliable as a Kansas book on Evolution.

Star Wars in basically stuck in Anime-Land. It makes up crap and then tries to make it fit together using dodgy reasoning.
For example, the guy in that website claims that the weapons are actually not lasers. If this is the case, when a ship is hit by a bolt, why doesn't it go spinning into space from the force of the hit?

Each large 'Turbolaser' is supposed to be roughly the equivalent of 22 gigatons of tnt - Why doesn't anything hit by it do flying off into space?

 

[MJ12]

People, people, stop using the "well imperials were taken out by rebels" shit, because the rebels used gorilla warefare basically.

Not to mention most of the earth combine soldiers were taken out by A SINGLE MAN!



Now that I've got that cleared up, remember the empire before they were the empire? When it was a "clone war"? Yeah, they took out all those sissy robot generators.

So, if the republic took out the manufacturing of a droid army on a galactic level, what makes you think the imperials can't stop the manufacturing of the combine on a single planet?


(oh, and to clear shit up, this is a ground and air battle, because we know nothing about combine space craft)

 

[Eejit]

So, if the republic took out the manufacturing of a droid army on a galactic level, what makes you think the imperials can't stop the manufacturing of the combine on a single planet?

Surely the Combine would be able to teleport more in from another universe if that did happen.

 

[Kevin]

The rebels used gorilla warefare basically.

 

[MJ12]

laughin' at me, bub? *snikt*

 

[Kevin]

...yes.

 

[MJ12]

and whats so funny punk?

 

[Kevin]

Read the quote...


Are you seriously pissed off?

 

[MJ12]

no, who uses words like "bub" when they are angry?

 

[Shift]

Well to be fair, they did actually use a form of gorilla warfare, in the sense that they only beat the Empire by staying hidden and keeping their bases hidden so they couldn't be blasted from space, by exploiting weaknesses using hidden scouts (using spies to infiltrate the Empire to get the Death Star plans) and over time gathering more people to their cause (which how they managed to gather a large attack fleet by the end of Return of the Jedi). That along with having luck on their side and Darth Vader turning good again so he could kill the Emperor.

That is a form gorilla warfare, because if I put it in another perspective, say like the NVA in Vietnam. They kept their bases and supply lines hidden, usually underground, so they wouldn't be bombed by the US airforce. They exploited the USAs weaknesses, drawing them into the many jungles where they couldn't use their tanks etc, where they were unfarmiliar with the territory and combat situation, where they could be ambushed with infantry or traps, also exploiting this by digging tunnels into their bases to pkant charges on their buildings and equipment, assasinating key people. Over time they starting gathering more and more people to combat the invaders of their home down south, as well as constantly gaining more weapons from the Russians.

Note that im just explaining an example of gorrila tactics, I know they aren't the only reasons why the yanks lost the war.

 

[Que-Ever]

I think you all mean "guerilla". The closest things to gorillas in star wars are wookies.

 

[Shift]

I did lol, my spelling ability has decayed over the summer :S

 

[Kevin]

Exactly Que-ever!
I was just laughing about the spelling error.

Nothing offensive.

 

[Llama]

I chuckled heartily at it myself.

On the topic of Trans-human over watch troops (Eg - Combine Soldiers and Elites) vs Storm troopers. I will give this to the Combine. This is because the armour of troops in the SW universe is so geared towards blaster defense, that more simple forms of attack (Ie - Bullets) would shred it like Fly paper.

That and the famed inability of Stormtroopers to hit anything

 

[Rapstah]

Pulse Rifle vs. Blaster Rifle? What would win the fight?

 

[Kevin]

Pulse rifle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Narvi]

I chuckled heartily at it myself.

On the topic of Trans-human over watch troops (Eg - Combine Soldiers and Elites) vs Storm troopers. I will give this to the Combine. This is because the armour of troops in the SW universe is so geared towards blaster defense, that more simple forms of attack (Ie - Bullets) would shred it like Fly paper.

That and the famed inability of Stormtroopers to hit anything

Have you noticed that Combine soldiers aren't very accurate? And that a red-hot unaerodynamic rebar is capable of shooting through that armour of theirs? And that Han Solo's pithy little hand blaster managed to blast red-hot holes in concrete? And what's this silliness about armour? Blasters shoot explosive bolts. The only soft bits in stormtrooper
armour is the black body-glove. We've never seen the white armour plates being penetrated by anything less than a blaster bolt.

A pulse rifle is basically an assault rifle, as seen in game. We've never seen it do anything an assault rifle can't, beyond the disintegration balls.

And I'm tired of the stormtrooper accuracy jokes. They've actually been pretty effective against non main characters. The Combine are as non main character as you can get.

 

[soulslicer]

PUT THEM IN A DARK AREA AND WE SEE WHO WINS!!

 

[Sui]

Jeez. This argument is pretty heavy going.

I'd have to side myself with the Empire, because, well... you know...

Just look at him. How could he not win? He looks awesome.

Though seriously, Stormtroopers are surely a match for the Combine footsoldiers. Most of them are clones who have superb endurance and reflexes, on par with any mechanical adjustments the Combine have made to their troops, whilst their training and tactics are fairly advanced.

ATSTs, along with most of the Empire's ground machines, would probably just be cannon fodder for Striders though. The latter are far more agile and manoeuvrable, with a singularity cannon to boot.

I think it's the Empire's air force that would really shine though. The Combine's Earth force is mainly focused on suppressing the ground-bound population, so an air assault would catch them with their pants down, so to speak. I'm sure of various other worlds the combine have an air presence though, to compensate for tricky terrain or flying species.

Unfortunately, in the end the Combine would probably win, due to their advanced technology and (presumably) superior numbers. Sadface.

[Edit] In response to the above post - Combine Elites, anyone?

 

[Asknoone]

I really dislike the Combine Elite model.


Er...Combine would obviously win in the end with their far superior alien forces. The Overwatch from HL2 would take a beating, but that's such a tiny part of the overall Combine that it doesn't really matter, I don't think.

 

[Llama]

Have you noticed that Combine soldiers aren't very accurate?

Combine Soldiers are far more accurate than Stormtroopers, based on the fact that Combine soldiers can actually HIT TARGETS WITH THEIR GUNS.

And that a red-hot unaerodynamic rebar is capable of shooting through that armour of theirs? And that Han Solo's pithy little hand blaster managed to blast red-hot holes in concrete? And what's this silliness about armour? Blasters shoot explosive bolts.

Which is funny. Given that statement, you'd expect someone shot by one to be injured in a way that suggests it's an explosive weapon. Sadly, the only person in SW that we have seen been hit by a ST's bolt close-up is Leigh ( Spelling ftl), and all that did was burn her. Yay, huge continuity errors. If those blasters are that powerful, you'd have expected her leg to have a huge chunk blow off. However, the evidence suggests the bolts are not explosive. Vey damn hot, yes, but not explosive.

The only soft bits in stormtrooper armour is the black body-glove. We've never seen the white armour plates being penetrated by anything less than a blaster bolt.

The blaster bolts primary method of damage seems to be extreme heat. The impact itself does not kill. Therefore, the amour (Which is geared towards reflection of these heat-based weapon bolts) would be totally unable to stop a bullet.

A pulse rifle is basically an assault rifle, as seen in game. We've never seen it do anything an assault rifle can't, beyond the disintegration balls.

It's almost certainly more powerful than a conventional rifle, or the combine wouldn't use it. I don't know how it would affect the armour unlike a normal bullet, though.

And I'm tired of the stormtrooper accuracy jokes. They've actually been pretty effective against non main characters. The Combine are as non main character as you can get.

Apart from the original crew of the ship attacked in Episode IV, when?


Edit: Kudos to Samon for speaking sense.
Edit2: please, stop using that website. The guy who created is is a tool, and he speculates so much, and reads into so many things that he's not even worth the effort reading.

 

[Asknoone]

Edit: Kudos to Samon for speaking sense.

Somebody has to.

 

[Rapstah]

Why can't you use the regular quotes system, Llama? >>

 

[Llama]

I was abused as a child.

In seriousness, I dislike having to divide everything up by copy-pasting the quote dialogue boxes. I'm an impatient bastard . Though since you don't approve, I'll use quotes from now on

 

[Shift]

Edit: Kudos to Samon for speaking sense.

Even though about three people have said exactly what he said beforehand?

No offense Samon

 

[Llama]

I know people have said the same, he was just the most recent.

Kudos to everyone else for speaking sense! \o/

 

[Shift]

Huzah!

 

[MJ12]

Which is funny. Given that statement, you'd expect someone shot by one to be injured in a way that suggests it's an explosive weapon. Sadly, the only person in SW that we have seen been hit by a ST's bolt close-up is Leigh ( Spelling ftl), and all that did was burn her. Yay, huge continuity errors. If those blasters are that powerful, you'd have expected her leg to have a huge chunk blow off. However, the evidence suggests the bolts are not explosive. Vey damn hot, yes, but not explosive.

The only soft bits in stormtrooper armour is the black body-glove. We've never seen the white armour plates being penetrated by anything less than a blaster bolt.

The blaster bolts primary method of damage seems to be extreme heat. The impact itself does not kill. Therefore, the amour (Which is geared towards reflection of these heat-based weapon bolts) would be totally unable to stop a bullet.

A pulse rifle is basically an assault rifle, as seen in game. We've never seen it do anything an assault rifle can't, beyond the disintegration balls.

It's almost certainly more powerful than a conventional rifle, or the combine wouldn't use it. I don't know how it would affect the armour unlike a normal bullet, though.

those are some good points, no doubt, a combine could easily take out a stormtrooper, but I am still voting on the imperials. Their tie fighters would rape the gunships, dropships and synths

and their AT-AT's would rape the striders

However, when it comes to foot soldiers and other small lang machines such as hunters, and those combine tanks, the combine would clean them up pretty well

 

[Asknoone]

The Tie Fighters couldn't even touch the gunships. Gunships are Synth, and nothing other than a direct blow from an RPG hurts them. The pulse thing they fire would tear Tie Fighter metal apart completely. The same goes for the Striders. They are Synth, and in one, direct big cannon shot thing the AT-AT would just cripple.

You're missing the point in that you are only taking into consideration the Overwatch, which is a very small branch of the Combine.

 

[Narvi]

Combine Soldiers are far more accurate than Stormtroopers, based on the fact that Combine soldiers can actually HIT TARGETS WITH THEIR GUNS.

It's a silly argument, considering that Stormtroopers hit people too. They just can't hit main characters.

Also, the Combine were forced to retreat to their Citadel boundaries by a bunch of dudes with RPGs and stolen weaponry. This was even while they were armed with combat synths which were used against Earth's armies. Considering the fictional contrast here, I'd say that's worse than a fully-armed rebel army managing to behead the Imperial government with one stroke. This isn't an actual argument, just an irritated jab at you for making fun of Star Wars using silly arguments. Do it properly next time. Anime-sque? Bah. Humbug.

Which is funny. Given that statement, you'd expect someone shot by one to be injured in a way that suggests it's an explosive weapon. Sadly, the only person in SW that we have seen been hit by a ST's bolt close-up is Leigh ( Spelling ftl), and all that did was burn her. Yay, huge continuity errors. If those blasters are that powerful, you'd have expected her leg to have a huge chunk blow off. However, the evidence suggests the bolts are not explosive. Vey damn hot, yes, but not explosive.

...explosions happen because of very damn hotness. And Leia didn't get hit directly. The bolt hit the wall next to her. Though damned if I'll go hunt down pics right now. Give me a little while.

Besides which, blasters have power settings, yes? A low-power bolt would not have done so much damage, besides which the troopers were ordered to capture the rebels, so killshots are unlikely.

Also, this does not prove that bullets will rip through their armour. Give more evidence.

It's almost certainly more powerful than a conventional rifle, or the combine wouldn't use it. I don't know how it would affect the armour unlike a normal bullet, though.

Dude, learn how to use the bold function. The s are annoying.

It's probably a bit more efficient than a standard assault rifle, but it hasn't shown itself to be much more impressive. I assume it's the difference between and M-16 an an AK-47 or something.

Edit2: please, stop using that website. The guy who created is is a tool, and he speculates so much, and reads into so many things that he's not even worth the effort reading.

The occasional speculation does not make his points any less valid. If you like I'll link and quote the relevant point next time.

Er...Combine would obviously win in the end with their far superior alien forces. The Overwatch from HL2 would take a beating, but that's such a tiny part of the overall Combine that it doesn't really matter, I don't think.

You know, nobody here is arguing that they would win against a full-scale invasion force. I originally argued about the Imperial army kicking the Overwatch's ass with equal numbers on each side, and then some people started going 'lolololcombine big kick sucky missing stormtrooper ass'. Some people simply failed to realize the good points of the Imperial army, and I endeavoured to correct them. I have no particular fannish objection to the Empire getting overrun, but I dislike it when people underestimate them.

 

[Asknoone]

I don't really think the Overwatch themselves would get that 'owned' as you might put it against the Imperials, to be honest. Their tie-fighters and AT-ATs simply wouldn't stand up against Synths, really. Not with the pulse cannons they have. They would just rip through the metal.

 

[Darkside55]

I've watched this argument in silence until now. This isn't an argument I can join lightly, because it conflicts with me. As you can clearly see from my name and my avatar, I am a fan and ardent supporter of the Galactic Empire. On the other hand, nobody loves and adores the great Universal Union more than I do, meatsacks. I glorify the both of them. So what can I say?

I will tell you, whatever I DO say in this argument, that's the end all of it. I'm not being egotistical, it's that I have such a love for both of these groups that whoever I say wins IS the undisputed winner.

That being said, after careful consideration, research, and a lot of mock battle calculations, I have determined that the winner in this fight would be none other than

 

[Que-Ever]

Stormtrooper armor is a synthetic metal sandwich, with all kinds of heat and energy dissipating layers of mesh in between. That's what blocks the lasers. Stormtrooper armor is also specifically designed to stop shrapnel and is pretty much impervious to anything other than a direct laser blast. Although I imagine that close proximety to an explosion could cook them alive inside.

All those pulse rifles that you combine supporters are so fond of aren't even able to shoot through tin roofs. And, based on the damage done to the environments and stuff, don't have much more penetrative power than normal bullets. To me, it just seems like metal slugs wrapped in energy to increase damage to livign thigs (maybe) almost exactly like a wookie crossbow, except a lot faster firing. So, anyway, not even able to get through those thin sheets of metal all over the place in half-life 2, how is it gonna get through the armor of an AT-AT, which is probably something like a foot of some super strong synthetic metal?

 

[Rapstah]

The part you say about not being able to penetrate small sheets of metal is all technical limitations.

It's like saying that Star Destroyers suck since they're very small models in reality.

 

[Laivasse]

One word: Ewoks.

 

[Asknoone]

All those pulse rifles that you combine supporters are so fond of aren't even able to shoot through tin roofs.

Technical limitations/Gameplay purposes - you can't really take it into account, and is just irrelevant.

how is it gonna get through the armor of an AT-AT, which is probably something like a foot of some super strong synthetic metal?

So strong, infact, that a log is able to crush it into oblivion. Sure, logs are pretty strong, but I'm pretty sure the pulse cannon the Striders and Gunships use could tear it to shreds. Especially the Tie Fighter, with its silly glass window. And what's more, these all suffer from the fact that they are human controlled. This is a limitation when things such as the Gunship and Strider are living creatures and thus much more flexible.

One word: Ewoks.

I forgot about the Imperials being pasted by the worst things in Cinema.

 

[Rapstah]

Let's do a mod about this and take the fighting to a personal level?

 

[Que-Ever]

Technical limitations/Gameplay purposes - you can't really take it into account, and is just irrelevant.



So strong, infact, that a log is able to crush it into oblivion. Sure, logs are pretty strong, but I'm pretty sure the pulse cannon the Striders and Gunships use could tear it to shreds. Especially the Tie Fighter, with its silly glass window. And what's more, these all suffer from the fact that they are human controlled. This is a limitation when things such as the Gunship and Strider are living creatures and thus much more flexible.



I forgot about the Imperials being pasted by the worst things in Cinema.

Ok, fine, I'll accept the technical limitions bit.

And to clarify, I was talkin about the big 4 legged ones, the little two legged ones are able to be taken out with small arms fire :/

I don't think ewoks are canon >.>

Let's do a mod about this and take the fighting to a personal level?

Yes! a team-based multiplayer mod.

 

[Asknoone]

Wouldn't the Strider quickly out maneuver the big 4 legged thing though? They are really slow, and not that agile. The Strider could use its boom thing and create pretty nasty damage, whilst constantly circling it.