Combine Vs. Imperials?

[Que-Ever]

It would depend on the situatoin. If the strider could get close enough, it could probably singularitize it into oblivion, but if it's any kind of distance away, the At-At has a chance to blast it before it charges up properly.

 

[Rapstah]

Ten Singularity Cannons aiming for a AT-At's head? Death.

I can already think of a name for the mod:

Wait, I can't.

 

[MJ12]

All this argueing has given me a good idea. Someone needs to make a Combine Vs. Imperial Mod. That would be so awesome.

I am sure it wouldn't be easy, but there has to be a way where you could like export the same material and AI from battlefront and put it into a source engine or something. That could be the coolest multiplayer mod ever

edit: crap, someone beat me too it. But seriously, someone make it!

 

[Asknoone]

Yeah, because that will happen.

 

[Rapstah]

Export AI? :naughty:

 

[MJ12]

Yeah, because that will happen.

why not, people spend hours and hours on making other really elaborate mods? plus that one would be the awesomest

Export AI? :naughty:

yeah, its easy ya know ya.... er just... yeah, i know nothing about technologies.

 

[Sheepo]

Combine owns Empire is the only outcome I can imagine.

 

[Pinkle]

All this argueing has given me a good idea. Someone needs to make a Combine Vs. Imperial Mod. That would be so awesome.

I am sure it wouldn't be easy, but there has to be a way where you could like export the same material and AI from battlefront and put it into a source engine or something. That could be the coolest multiplayer mod ever

edit: crap, someone beat me too it. But seriously, someone make it!

I agree this would be ****ing awesome, even if improbable. But, we can dream, can't we?

 

[Asknoone]

why not, people spend hours and hours on making other really elaborate mods? plus that one would be the awesomest

For obvious reasons.

 

[MJ12]

For obvious reasons.

well i am technoligically retarded, so it's not obvious to me. Your just too grumpy, You just have to believeeeee like me and pinkle! *throws glitter in the air*

 

[SpotEnemyBoats]

Those that are proposing a Strider vs. AT-AT, the Strider isn't even the backbone or workhorse of the true Combine military.

Spoiler

I would like to see if a AT-AT could take on a self-replicating and part-replacing creature. :dozey:


P.S Thank god Marc Laidlaw hates Star Wars.

 

[losttheskyagain]

Zombieturtle, you make my day.

Anyway, I'd say the Combine. They have arms in multiple universes. They have mechabreen.

 

[Asknoone]

I forgot about that thing, Blitz.

Your just too grumpy*

Someone has to be.

 

[Que-Ever]

And I have to be so damn upbeat to counter it.

Thanks a ****ing lot.

 

[MJ12]

Zombieturtle, you make my day.

I don't know why, but thanks. Someone would disagree with you though-

Someone has to be.

there's no reason to be mad, turn that frown upside down Grumpkins! *pinches cheeks*

 

[Asknoone]

And I have to be so damn upbeat to counter it.

Thanks a ****ing lot.

It'll be good for you. But don't try too hard.

 

[soulslicer]

I really dislike the Combine Elite model.

Samon, how could you possibly dislike it. its just awesome.

 

[Saturos]

I must agree that we don't know what the combine are fully capable of, but consider this. Citadels would actually be far more efficient than the Death Star why? the Combine can just plop those suckers down on any planet (and possibly even the Death Star), divide and conquer, and voila, a whole new planet under it's belt with tons of resources. The Death Star approach, however, would just be wasting resources by just obliterating everything so ultimately Citadels are more far more effective. Besides, it would be hard for the imperials to take the battle to the Combine's doorstep, considering it's in a totally different dimension. The imperials would have to reverse engineer the Combine's technology to find Xen's exact location. Meanwhile, they are getting totally owned on every planet they own and when they finally do have the means to travel to Xen, it'll already be to late as the combine'll already have kicked their asses in so many directions, they won't know which way to look. Finito. Game Over.

 

[Llama]

It's a silly argument, considering that Stormtroopers hit people too. They just can't hit main characters.

Who happen to be almost the only people we ever see them shooting at. Also, they do hit one of the main characters See Return of the Jedi, princess getting hit. It might be silly, but it's true.

Also, the Combine were forced to retreat to their Citadel boundaries by a bunch of dudes with RPGs and stolen weaponry. This was even while they were armed with combat synths which were used against Earth's armies. Considering the fictional contrast here, I'd say that's worse than a fully-armed rebel army managing to behead the Imperial government with one stroke. This isn't an actual argument, just an irritated jab at you for making fun of Star Wars using silly arguments. Do it properly next time. Anime-sque? Bah. Humbug.

The Over watch forces did NOT overthrow Earths armies. We have not seen the forces the Combine used against Earth, the Over watch is an occupation based force, remember?

...explosions happen because of very damn hotness. And Leia didn't get hit directly. The bolt hit the wall next to her. Though damned if I'll go hunt down pics right now. Give me a little while.

Please do. If you're correct, i'll withdraw my statement, until then, I'll stick by it stubbornly :dork:

Besides which, blasters have power settings, yes? A low-power bolt would not have done so much damage, besides which the troopers were ordered to capture the rebels, so killshots are unlikely.

And this evidence of power settings is...?

Also, this does not prove that bullets will rip through their armour. Give more evidence.

It is as much evidence as the vast majority of Star Wars 'Canon' / 'Information' is based on - IE Speculation.

Dude, learn how to use the bold function. The s are annoying.

Duly noted, I've switched to quotes.

It's probably a bit more efficient than a standard assault rifle, but it hasn't shown itself to be much more impressive. I assume it's the difference between and M-16 an an AK-47 or something.

The problem is, we have no idea to the Armour piercing qualities of the rifle round. We can assume that it's stronger than a bullet, but we don't know how it is intended to cause damage. It could easily be as strong as a ST bolt. Plus, I don't think a ST would have much chance against its secondary firing method :cheese:

The occasional speculation does not make his points any less valid. If you like I'll link and quote the relevant point next time.

What i'm saying is that you should take anything he comes up with, with a pinch of Salt. Bear in mind the following thing:

- Effects in Star Wars arn't really a good indication of power, since they are both a) Extremely varied, and b) the product of SFX people deciding what is 'cool' and what isn't. Nor are the ratings of the power something produces based on fan made calculations.

oh, and I know you are not at all under the impression i'm angry, or that I dislike you. I find you to be a challenging and enjoyable opponent

-

 

[Asknoone]

Samon, how could you possibly dislike it. its just awesome.

The white and the boots seem a little nazi-ish to me. If you know what I mean. I just prefer the Soldier model, which is absolutely ****ing fantastic, and beats ten tons of shit out of the elite in terms of awesome.

 

[soulslicer]

the combine soldier in full rendered glory..maybe youre right

 

[Dr. Breen]

 

[MJ12]

The white and the boots seem a little nazi-ish to me. If you know what I mean. I just prefer the Soldier model, which is absolutely ****ing fantastic, and beats ten tons of shit out of the elite in terms of awesome.

Eh, I am not supporting Nazi's or anything, but the the Nazi look really fit them well, and I liked how it looked.

If anything, the metro police looked the most like Nazi's, especially that marching sound they make, and the fact that they break in and rade.

There's no denying that the Nazi look is cool for bad guys, it makes them seem more threatening and facist in my opinion. I don't want my bad guys looking like no teletubbies.

Ironically, just like in star wars, all the imperial commanders look just like Nazi's, and thats why they look cool. Fits the charcter well.

snip.

I lol'd

 

[Asknoone]

Eh, I am not supporting Nazi's or anything, but the the Nazi look really fit them well, and I liked how it looked.

I wouldn't think for a second you were...:upstare:

 

[SpotEnemyBoats]

I forgot about that thing, Blitz.

It's wasn't really 100% all-the-way directed at you, my focus was directed on those whom think the imperials would defeat the Combine with ease. As I like to say, the Imperials can't even hold the Combine's jock strap.

I like the Elite's because of they're helmet, it's made of win. Next best helmet would be the Metro cops helmet.

 

[soulslicer]

i still think the plasma ball that the combine ar2 emits could rip up a whole load of imperials. The imperials don't have any insane weapon like that..

and whats that suppose to mean breen?

 

[Narvi]

Who happen to be almost the only people we ever see them shooting at. Also, they do hit one of the main characters See Return of the Jedi, princess getting hit. It might be silly, but it's true.

Blargh, I'm a bit sick now (not of you, just a virus ), so I really don't feel like finding the screenies right now, but lemme answer a few points. The princess was not the only one who got shot, Greedo literally got fried by a blaster in A New Hope for instance.

The Over watch forces did NOT overthrow Earths armies. We have not seen the forces the Combine used against Earth, the Over watch is an occupation based force, remember?

They still have Combine level synths, don't they? Unless the Combine left junkers behind to occupy the place.

And this evidence of power settings is...?

"Set weapons to stun."

Or, if you want more, Veers upgunned the AT-AT cannons to take out the shield generator in Empire Strikes Back.

It is as much evidence as the vast majority of Star Wars 'Canon' / 'Information' is based on - IE Speculation.

Speculation is fun, as long as you have proper evidence and reasoning behind it. No evidence of bullets tearing through stormtrooper armour, I'm afraid.

The problem is, we have no idea to the Armour piercing qualities of the rifle round. We can assume that it's stronger than a bullet, but we don't know how it is intended to cause damage. It could easily be as strong as a ST bolt. Plus, I don't think a ST would have much chance against its secondary firing method

You can dodge energy orbs in an open environment. They're only useful in closed environments, like corridors.

What i'm saying is that you should take anything he comes up with, with a pinch of Salt. Bear in mind the following thing:

- Effects in Star Wars arn't really a good indication of power, since they are both a) Extremely varied, and b) the product of SFX people deciding what is 'cool' and what isn't. Nor are the ratings of the power something produces based on fan made calculations.

oh, and I know you are not at all under the impression i'm angry, or that I dislike you. I find you to be a challenging and enjoyable opponent

It's actually fairly consistent for a scifi series. Variation is fairly easily justified in-universe, even accounting for SFX errors.

Unless you want to argue about why energy orbs don't disintegrate scanners and tables, when they disintergrate armoured suits and metallic guns, I wouldn't argue about consistency.

 

[Asknoone]

The only way the Imperials might win is if Lucas makes up some bullshit cock-sucking rubbish that he usually does. "Ray Shields!"

 

[Llama]

Blargh, I'm a bit sick now (not of you, just a virus ), so I really don't feel like finding the screenies right now, but lemme answer a few points. The princess was not the only one who got shot, Greedo literally got fried by a blaster in A New Hope for instance.

He got shot in the chest, and died. Which also goes against the mega-powerful-explosion theory. He wasn't blown apart, he got cooked.

They still have Combine level synths, don't they? Unless the Combine left junkers behind to occupy the place.

Pretty much. We've never seen the Synths the Combine uses most, these Synths are the equivalent of the neighbourhood watch

"Set weapons to stun."

Or, if you want more, Veers upgunned the AT-AT cannons to take out the shield generator in Empire Strikes Back.

:frown: DAM YUUUUUUUU. Ok, conceded.

Speculation is fun, as long as you have proper evidence and reasoning behind it. No evidence of bullets tearing through stormtrooper armour, I'm afraid.

I've given proper reasoning. ST armour has been seen to serve a specific purpose. It seems poorly equipted to deal with what i'm suggesting.

You can dodge energy orbs in an open environment. They're only useful in closed environments, like corridors.

Bear in mind that due to the range the orbs are used (10-20 m) , and the speed they travel, you Wouldn't have a chance to dodge them.

It's actually fairly consistent for a scifi series. Variation is fairly easily justified in-universe, even accounting for SFX errors.

Unless you want to argue about why energy orbs don't disintegrate scanners and tables, when they disintegrate armoured suits and metallic guns, I wouldn't argue about consistency.

Consistency in the game is limited by the amount that the developers can create with the engine, and the amount of time they are prepared to spend on it. Consistency errors are simply caused by the developers not having the time to set a single stand for every one of the (hundreds) of objects in game.

Movie consistency, however, is different. It's more limited, and more easily avoidable - This makes it unforgivable when you're using it as evidence.

 

[Laivasse]

People always tend to forget about the suppressor weapon that was on top of the Overwatch Nexus. That was devastating.

 

[Narvi]

He got shot in the chest, and died. Which also goes against the mega-powerful-explosion theory. He wasn't blown apart, he got cooked.

Still takes a lot of energy to cook somebody in the time after the blaster bolt connects.

Pretty much. We've never seen the Synths the Combine uses most, these Synths are the equivalent of the neighbourhood watch

That's a bit sad. Those junkers can't even match the US military of today.

I've given proper reasoning. ST armour has been seen to serve a specific purpose. It seems poorly equipted to deal with what i'm suggesting.

The armour doesn't get torn apart by explosions from AT-ST fire. Just because it's adapted to deal with blasters does not mean they can't deal with bullets. Star Wars people still use bullets occasionally, if I recall Episode 1 Tusken Raiders correctly. Besides, why would Combine be adapted to deal with blasters, if red-hot rebars can go through their armour?

Bear in mind that due to the range the orbs are used (10-20 m) , and the speed they travel, you Wouldn't have a chance to dodge them.

Yes, thus my corridor statement. You wouldn't be able to take out people in large spaces, though, they would be too spread out and the orb would dissipate before too long.

Consistency in the game is limited by the amount that the developers can create with the engine, and the amount of time they are prepared to spend on it. Consistency errors are simply caused by the developers not having the time to set a single stand for every one of the (hundreds) of objects in game.

Movie consistency, however, is different. It's more limited, and more easily avoidable - This makes it unforgivable when you're using it as evidence.

Yes, but you haven't shown bits where Star Wars is unjustifiably inconsistent either. Even recent epic movies like the Lord of the Rings screwed up medieval tactics and strategy, for instance. Not even Tolkien himself managed total internal consistency. (For instance, he had to retcon bits of the Hobbit, and he was forever annoyed with Balrogs.) What fictional universe (which is not based upon adding supernatural bits on reality like Pirates of the Caribbean) is totally internally consistent? The only one I can think of without any major retcons is Farscape, which I haven't personally watched, and Babylon 5, which mutilated physics terms occasionally. The occasional inconsistency does not justify throwing out the entire thing.

People always tend to forget about the suppressor weapon that was on top of the Overwatch Nexus. That was devastating.

Oddly enough, we didn't. It was also not exactly portable, being attached to a building power supply. Also, infantry could dodge its effect.

 

[Kevin]

Oddly enough, we didn't. It was also not exactly portable, being attached to a building power supply. Also, infantry could dodge its effect.

Weird... the suppression device cooked all my rebels.

In the game the players reflexes are almost instant.
For example, your running forward and when you hit the backward key, Gordon instantly starts running backwards. So the chances of escapeing a fatal blow is rather big.

But in a real scenario, this factor is affected by the friction of the ground, and the soldiers reflexes. If a soldier is running in mud, for example, and suddenly sees a white/blue spot in front of him, that is growing, he can't instantly turn back. If he would try to escape, he would slip on the mud and fall. Then he CERTAINLY wouldn't have time to escape the explosion.

Also remember ,that the suppression devices explosion has splash damage.

 

[Asknoone]

You wouldn't be able to take out people in large spaces, though, they would be too spread out and the orb would dissipate before too long.

There's a section in the Citadel that has a large hallway and a whole army of Combine. One orb bouncing from wall to wall can pretty much take them all out.

I deno how anyone can defend the Imperials. Lucas just makes up a load of bullshit.

 

[Narvi]

There's a section in the Citadel that has a large hallway and a whole army of Combine. One orb bouncing from wall to wall can pretty much take them all out.

I deno how anyone can defend the Imperials. Lucas just makes up a load of bullshit.

Combine soldiers don't exactly duck and cover much in game, or go prone for that matter. And a hallway is not what I referred to when I said "large open spaces".

Also, more pics plz.

I deno how anyone can defend the Imperials. Lucas just makes up a load of bullshit.

The armies of the original trilogy and the prequel trilogy weren't exactly made by him waving his hands and them coming into existence, you know. They have a reasonable amount of armour support and variation in firepower (with stormtroopers using carbines, rifles and heavy cannon), due to the modellers's skills and research. The LAAT (those gunship things in Episode 2) design, for instance, was based upon the design of the Hind-D attack helicopter, and is thus functional and pretty.

Weird... the suppression device cooked all my rebels.

In the game the players reflexes are almost instant.
For example, your running forward and when you hit the backward key, Gordon instantly starts running backwards. So the chances of escapeing a fatal blow is rather big.

But in a real scenario, this factor is affected by the friction of the ground, and the soldiers reflexes. If a soldier is running in mud, for example, and suddenly sees a white/blue spot in front of him, that is growing, he can't instantly turn back. If he would try to escape, he would slip on the mud and fall. Then he CERTAINLY wouldn't have time to escape the explosion.

Also remember ,that the suppression devices explosion has splash damage.

Good point. Nonetheless, it has only been used in an urban environment, at very close range, attached to a building. Even accounting for splash damage you'd only be able to take out two or three stormtroopers per hit, less if the stormtroopers decide to advance spread out.

 

[Kevin]

That is the point actually.
It's mostly ineffective against infantry.
So why not use it against slower tanks and stuff.

And it's not easy for it to reveal it's position after firing.
It doesn't seem to shoot anthing, but call down from above.
So when you can't see anything hinting to the position of the device, you can't blast it.

 

[Narvi]

That is the point actually.
It's mostly ineffective against infantry.
So why not use it against slower tanks and stuff.

And it's not easy for it to reveal it's position after firing.
It doesn't seem to shoot anthing, but call down from above.
So when you can't see anything hinting to the position of the device, you can't blast it.

The beam arcs from the device to the point of impact, actually.

 

[Kevin]

Ingame? Never saw that.:O

 

[Langolier]

Considering we know more about the Galactic Empire than we do the Universal Union, I'm going to go with the Empire. The "Universal" part of the Union might be over blown. It might constitute only a few planets in different universes, not necessarily constitute entire universes or even solar systems. After all, the Combine conquered Earth, but is there any evidence that they conquered the Milky Way? The Universal Union needn't be that large. Even if they can mount a large scale planetary invasion, how many times can they do it, how many planets can they invade at the same time? The Empire could invade a dozen planets at once and still countless troops and craft to spare, not to mention a gigantic civilian population on Coruscaunt ALONE to recruit from.

Just because the Combine can travel through different universes doesn't mean they have a huge army. The US developed the technology to travel to other dimensions, but would you wager the United States could defeat the Empire in a war? I think not. The Combine might prove quite the nuisance for the Imperials (especially if they kept making Citadels on Coruscaunt) but I doubt they could ever topple them. If they were lucky they might seize a few fringe worlds, but the Empire could bombard them from space nigh endlessly. In the end it probably wouldn't be cost-effective for the Combine to attack the Empire so I doubt they'd keep it up for very long.

Now if say we took a standard Imperial planetary army and set it up against an equivalent Combine army, it's impossible to say who would win but considering we haven't seen anything the Combine has to offer in that regard I'll go with the Imperials. Surely they could defeat Earth's forces in 17 hours too, perhaps even faster. I don't really hold the Combine enforcers we see in Half-Life 2 against them because it's obvious in the game that they are small scale and there only as crowd control, unfit for fighting large scale wars or even battles. Striders and Gunships really aren't all that impressive compared to tanks, F-16's, or TIE-Fighters. They're only intimidating to foot soldiers.

 

[Rapstah]

The US developed the technology to travel to other dimensions, but would you wager the United States could defeat the Empire in a war? I think not.

It's possible that the Empire would beat them since the Empire has more soldiers than there are people on Earth.

If they were lucky they might seize a few fringe worlds, but the Empire could bombard them from space nigh endlessly. In the end it probably wouldn't be cost-effective for the Combine to attack the Empire so I doubt they'd keep it up for very long.

Are we still talking about the United States? The country that has trouble sending ten people into space every month?

After all, the Combine conquered Earth, but is there any evidence that they conquered the Milky Way?

The Milky Way is in our universe, mind.

Surely they could defeat Earth's forces in 17 hours too, perhaps even faster.

It's seven hours, and I don't doubt it either, any force with over a billion troops could invade earth in seven hours, portal storms or not.

Now if say we took a standard Imperial planetary army and set it up against an equivalent Combine army, it's impossible to say who would win but considering we haven't seen anything the Combine has to offer in that regard

Yes, that's the point, yet this thread still goes on and on.

Striders and Gunships really aren't all that impressive compared to tanks, F-16's

What?

 

[ríomhaire]

Regardless of who has the better army it is completly impossible for the Empire to defeat the Combine, because they cannot travel between universes.