Combine Vs. Xen - the final solution

this is another thing that got my atention

Laidlaw: I'm always surprised to hear that people found the ending sudden, since I thought from the opening scenes of the game we'd made it pretty clear where you were going to end up and who you were going to confront. It was the coolest ending we could dream up that seemed fitting to Gordon Freeman's role in the universe. I don't think a denouement would have added much to the game, and in fact would have closed some options that we're glad (in Aftermath) to have left open.
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gordon freeman role in the universe?
 
<RJMC> said:
this is another thing that got my atention



gordon freeman role in the universe?
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I never noticed that. Does that mean to GF in HL3?!
 
UndeadScottsman said:
Just wanted to chime in here; The quote could imply that the Combine chased the Nihilanth from their homeworld, into Xen (As in, followed them to Xen) and then later conquered Earth by way of Xen. It's pretty vague either way and really only proves the Combine and Xen knew about each other prior to HL1.. which doesn't prove much else.
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Then why do the Combine seek the local teleport tech from Mossman?

-Angry Lawyer
 
Not to drag this down into a argument about interpretations and whatnot, but the Nihilanth and his race never demonstrated the ability to use an Earth(Or other location) Xen relay system. All of their teleportations were either from the Borderworld to Earth or from the Borderworld to the Borderworld. Humans are the only race seen to use the Xen-Relay system.
 
But then, why aren't Synth popping into existence on Earth in a similar way to the Xenians in the Resonance Cascade?

-Angry Lawyer
 
Angry Lawyer said:
But then, why aren't Synth popping into existence on Earth in a similar way to the Xenians in the Resonance Cascade?

-Angry Lawyer
Click to expand...
You really want to get into this argument again?

The Synth had no reason to be on Xen at the time of the resonance cascade. With the Nihilanth, the Combine had enslaved the entire Vortigaunt population. Being that there's going to be no revolts or rebellions, there's no reason to leave the Synth on Xen when they could be put to better use invading other dimensions.
 
Hey, you started it :p
I wasn't alluding to the presence of Synth on Xen, but to the fact that stuff from Xen has an easy time popping over to Earth. You don't see anything Combine pop through the veil. Raising the Bar alludes to them punching through into our Universe through the Citadels. The Xenian method was pop through *everywhere*

And it still doesn't explain the way that no clearly Xenian tech has been included in HL2.

-Angry Lawyer
 
This guy is pretty much right on it:

http://members.shaw.ca/halflifestory/

The xenian method is like it is in hl1 because black mesa scientists opened a gateway to xen and nihilanth kept it open and started attacking earth. Nihilanth couldn't open a gateway himself, so he didn't have a choice of when and where to send his troops.

As for the xenian tech, it seems to me combine tech was administered to the xenians just like that same tech was administered to humans in hl2. To me, xen is opressed by the combine during hl1, and so I agree with undeadscottsman.

You gotta love the depth of the story
 
No, you just assume to much. It's not because they fled from their homeworld that their enemy didn't catch up with them. To me it seems very clear that nihilanth was the vortigaunts dr.Breen.

1)vortigaunts flee to xen
2)combine follows them there and opress them my making the big trooper guys out of vortigaunts (using typical combine tech) and placing nihilanth as the leader (like breen). At this point xen is finished business as far as the combine are concerned.
3)humans discover xen world and raise the attention of the combine. combine arrange a meeting with the top of the foodchain at black mesa.
4)cascade happens (wich thus was negotiated with breen), nihilanth keeps gateway open, and they attack

The only thing doug really says is that it's not their homeworld. Read it again.

Or show me where I went wrong. I really like the twists in the story so I'm open for suggestions/corrections to my view on it.
 
*Rolls his eyes*

You referenced the "halflifestory" page and said he's got it right. Don't believe everything you read on Websites. That site states that the Combine are actually called the Synth Empire. It also throws in random dates. The guy's passing off his own speculation as fact.

You're saying I assume too much? Tell me, which is a bigger assumption:

All enemies in the HL series are Combine controlled.

or

There are multiple empires, with different ideologies.

There are a huge number of things I can reference that support my side of things, but the "Combine control Xen" argument is only backed up by the metal parts on the Nihilanth.
The Combine like to put their stamp on everything. Notice the alien designs and technology that starkly contrast our own, and you can see the juxtaposition when playing HL2.
Notice how there is no such contrast in HL1. In fact, see how everything is organic in Xen.
Also take into account the emblazoning system the Combine use. 99% of their military units have a Combine seal on them, stating what division they're from. None of the Xenians have this.

If they wanted them to be controlled by the Combine, they'd have either stamped the Xenians with a load of Combine details, or, they'd have gone and carried across a whole lot more of the Xenian stuff from HL1.

The problem with the Combine on Xen theory is that its small-minded. Its assuming that there's only one enemy, and any time that something new pops up, it must be Combine. Things aren't usually so simple.

-Angry Lawyer
 
Thanks for answering.

I understand what you mean by the combine on xen theory being small-minded. But it doesn't exclude the possibility of a third actor trying to sabotage the combine empire.

Consider this: So the vortigaunts fled their home world to end up in xen. This is the new fact we've received from the interview. Now consider the combine mentality: Would they just leave them alone? Wouldn't they want to conquer this world as well? Would they just "let it be"?

Let's assume they would want to go into xen and conquer it because it's their nature to do so.

The only question left is: Did they capture xen before or after Gordon got there?

Also consider maybe xen wasn't such an interesting place for an empire that stretches across galaxies until the connection with another dimension was made, ours. As I see it they were seeing xen as a colony. Once they established law & order on it, it was just another place they had conquered. To me some of the monsters in hl1 do seem very combine-like. Instead of being mixed with humans, those creatures had been mixed with something else.

------------------------------------

About the website, yes, its flawed. I posted it to give people interested in the subject something to read. Not everyone who browses here is knowledgable on the hl subject. I think it's a good starting point. The flaws are rather obvious so it's not that bad.
 
Angry Lawyer said:
Hey, you started it :p
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No, I didn't. I was commenting on the quote from Lombardi. :)

I wasn't alluding to the presence of Synth on Xen, but to the fact that stuff from Xen has an easy time popping over to Earth. You don't see anything Combine pop through the veil. Raising the Bar alludes to them punching through into our Universe through the Citadels. The Xenian method was pop through *everywhere*
Click to expand...


They may have very well of done that during the 7-hour war, but most of their crap is produced on Earth now anyway. Between the Synth produced in the Citidel to the human convertions. Other than for local transport (Which we've established they don't have), they have no major reason to mass teleport all over the place.

As for why not just set up an outpost on Xen to send people to Earth... this actually a valid question even if they had no access to Xen. Why not just send a few platoons of soldiers to whereever the combine teleported in from and then send them back into the middle of Black Mesa East? (Or perhaps that was the plan and we just never saw it on account of being stuck in the airlock when it happened)

Also, this is just a nitpick, but we have no idea who controls Xen post HL1. The Gman says "The borderworld, Xen, is in our control" but who "they" are is still a mystery. If they're assossiated with the Gman than it's possible they still hold Xen.

And it still doesn't explain the way that no clearly Xenian tech has been included in HL2.
-Angry Lawyer
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One reason could be that it's inferior to Combine tech. (After all, the Combine delt with the Xenians before, by Valve's admission, and even after HL1 they would have had YEARS of dealing with the Vorts and Co on Earth. Why didn't they incorporate it by then?)

One other reason could be that it's easier to use the mass producable technology of the Synths, and then covert human stuff than it is to use stuff that isn't native to Earth. (Then again, they were sure happy to use Headcrabs as bioweapons, but those are fairly simple uses for alien fauna)
 
Angry Lawyer said:
You're saying I assume too much? Tell me, which is a bigger assumption:

All enemies in the HL series are Combine controlled.

or

There are multiple empires, with different ideologies.
Click to expand...
Actually, B is the bigger assumption, as it requires the creation of an entirely new entity that hasn't even been alluded to, when a prior existing entity already fits the bill. (Not that it totally precludes the new entity, as the sudden unvieling of a previously unknown enemy in the place of a fasly accused enemy is a common plot device.. and please excuse that brain dribble.. it's early morning and I'm tired. :D)

There are a huge number of things I can reference that support my side of things, but the "Combine control Xen" argument is only backed up by the metal parts on the Nihilanth.
The Combine like to put their stamp on everything. Notice the alien designs and technology that starkly contrast our own, and you can see the juxtaposition when playing HL2.
Notice how there is no such contrast in HL1. In fact, see how everything is organic in Xen.
Also take into account the emblazoning system the Combine use. 99% of their military units have a Combine seal on them, stating what division they're from. None of the Xenians have this.

If they wanted them to be controlled by the Combine, they'd have either stamped the Xenians with a load of Combine details, or, they'd have gone and carried across a whole lot more of the Xenian stuff from HL1.
Click to expand...
Or they did that specificly to affect human morale. If you can just mind control the entire Vortigaunt race by cybernetically altering the center of the hivemind; why bother slapping icons on the populace? What does that get you?

With Humans, however, we indentify a lot with icons and symbols.

The problem with the Combine on Xen theory is that its small-minded. Its assuming that there's only one enemy, and any time that something new pops up, it must be Combine. Things aren't usually so simple.
Click to expand...
It's unfair to say that as it has been just ONE instance of saying "the combine did it" and that's due to a few quotes between the games with similar meanings and a parallel in themes. Nobody is saying the Combine were behind Race-X, after all.
 
The icons aren't in obvious places. Take the top of a strider as an example. No human's going to see it.

As for the Combie metallic tech, I very much doubt that suddenly popped up over ten years. Its everywhere, from cloned Human tech, to metallic components attached to Synth.
The only thing on Xen that even remotely resembles it is the Nihilanth's life support system - even then, that could just be through technology theft that the Xenians took with them when they fled the Combine.

Believe me, there have been lots of threads (thankfully long dead) that have likened Race-X to the Combine. Hell, I've even seen in the past a number likening the Black Ops and Human Assassins to the Combine.

Now, although I'm staunchly against the idea of the Combine having a presence on Xen during the two games, it doesn't leave out the idea of invading there shortly afterwards. Through researching an efficient way of getting to Xen (the Human teleporation tech), the Combine can mop up the leftovers of their last exploit - the Xenian refugees, and their standing army of Alien Grunts.

Which also brings me to another point. Teleporters. There are fixed teleporters all over Xen. It's probably safe to assume that the ones on Earth at Black Mesa used the same physics, as they shared artwork. Therefore, localised teleportation is possible on both worlds. Why do the Combine insist on using a vastly different way of teleporting?

I'm not picking at you, it's just that I like to argue, yet I hate the Politics section.

-Angry Lawyer
 
Combine weren't on Xen in my opinion:

- Xen has no traces of any Combine architecture or style whatsoever.

- The Combine are forced to use a gigantic dark reactor and a long-winded sequence to open a portal. If Nihilanth was under Combine control then they would have the technology to appear anywhere on Earth at will, just like the Xenians did. They obviously can't do this and they obviously don't have this technology - otherwise, when attacking Black Mesa East they simply wouldn't have bothered with the helicopters and stuff.

- Alien Grunts are a lot less similar to Vortigaunts than Soldiers are to humans.

- There are several pieces of dialogue in the game that remark how different the Combine teleportation is to the Black Mesa/Xen teleportation.

- other stuff that Angry Lawyer mentioned.


None of these are be-all-and-end-all but together they point me to the conclusion that the Combine were not on Xen, at least before Black Mesa (they may have been afterwards).
 
Sorry to disapoint you guys, but my brother is a combine, and he told me that erm... , oh well, nevermind.

I guess you guys have a good point about not seeing any leftover combine structures at all on xen. But Breen does look kinda like a vortigaunt.
 
I know I may be wrong whit this but

nihilant looks very diferent from the rest of theyr creatures,for example the human similiarity and the black metal parts
what if nihilant was a rebel?
cuz for example
in earth the combien where offering like safety to the humans and stuff like that,and still there was a rebellion
also did mossman was pretending to work whit breen to get a advantage against it?or she just changed her mind?
cuz is she was working whit breen to find it weak spot or something like that
maybe the nihilant has done the same thing
maybe the nihilant hav formed a rebellion to escape from the combine and they got into xen and when the black mesa incident hapened they just taked advantage of it and begun to teleport to earth to escape the combine
and maybe the combine hav been chasing nihilant and found the earth by accident(or not) and you know the rest

also in the last levels of hl1 where in something like a factory so maybe they where copying the techniques of the combine or something like that,also the vortigaunts where slaves so maybe they are not the same race of nihilant

another thing is that in hl1 I heard the scientist mention that when entering into a teleport you must pass trought the borderworld
so what if xen is like a super duper alley beetween all the dimensions?

still the most confusing part of the storyline is the gman and I cant make theoryes about it

dam I want to know more
 
The combine were not on Xen. This is THE central point of the HL universe. AL, Riomhaire and Co (and me, of course :p) know what they mean, the only question about it is whether Breen made Combine Contact - unlikely, but possible
 
Why Vortigaunts in HL2 fighting against Combine? Its reckoning for Xen!
 
Laivasse said:
Or simple self-preservation? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Vorts have quotes like:
"The Combine's reckoning has come. "
"The Combine will pay in kind for their depravity."
"We have endured these chafing bonds for eons, yet a single moment of further servitude seems intolerable! "...
 
Polaris said:
Vorts have quotes like:
"The Combine's reckoning has come. "
"The Combine will pay in kind for their depravity."
"We have endured these chafing bonds for eons, yet a single moment of further servitude seems intolerable! "...
Click to expand...
1&2: The Combine chased them out of their homeworld.
3: What does that have to do with anything?
 
We have been inslaved for eons and we can't bloody stand it any more. Either implying that it's always been the Combine or that it's always been somebody.
 
Even though Nihilanth seems to oppose the Combine, he knows the use of having slaves :)

-Angry Lawyer
 
Yeah- just because Nihilanth wasn't a pawn of the Combine (at least not intentionally), doesn't mean he was necessarily a nice guy :p
 
I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned as I am too tired to read the whole thread.

I just had an idea. Dosent it seem strange to you that Kliner and Eli can work on teleportation without Overwatch noticing them? I think the Combine know about their work and actually want it to continue. The combine dont take Eli until after his experiment works. Even Dr. Breen says the combine could have taken him at any time. I think the combine went into Xen and found out about Black Mesa's work. When they got there though they found out Black Mesa was trashed and they couldnt get the tech and just decided to wait for the sciencetists to make it again.
 
Angry Lawyer said:
The icons aren't in obvious places. Take the top of a strider as an example. No human's going to see it.
Click to expand...
Humans looking down from their apartment buildings will see it as it patrols the streets below.

As for the Combie metallic tech, I very much doubt that suddenly popped up over ten years. Its everywhere, from cloned Human tech, to metallic components attached to Synth.
Click to expand...
Not sure what your talking about here.

The only thing on Xen that even remotely resembles it is the Nihilanth's life support system - even then, that could just be through technology theft that the Xenians took with them when they fled the Combine.
Click to expand...
And it could also be the sum total of what the Combine felt they had to leave behind on Xen.

Believe me, there have been lots of threads (thankfully long dead) that have likened Race-X to the Combine. Hell, I've even seen in the past a number likening the Black Ops and Human Assassins to the Combine.
Click to expand...
Considering Race-X and Xen didn't like each other very much, I highly doubt they were both on the same side. Likewise with the Black Ops.

Now, although I'm staunchly against the idea of the Combine having a presence on Xen during the two games, it doesn't leave out the idea of invading there shortly afterwards. Through researching an efficient way of getting to Xen (the Human teleporation tech), the Combine can mop up the leftovers of their last exploit - the Xenian refugees, and their standing army of Alien Grunts.
Click to expand...
It just seems to me that:

We know that the Combine and the Nihilanth had prior interactions
We know that the Combine love enslaving things with cybernetics and surgery.
We know that the head honcho of the Vorts, the thing that's keeping them enslaved, has had cybernetic and surgical alterations.
We know that, at the time of Half-Life 1, the Nihilanth considered himself and his people enslaved.
We know that as of HL2, the Vortigaunts consider their lesser master to be destroyed and that Freeman is on his way to defeating their Greater Master.

The simplest explanation is that the Combine succeeded in finally defeating the Nihilanth and his race. The only other explanation is that the Nihilanth got enslaved by a third, as of yet unknown race, and instead of dealing with those entities in HL2 after freeing their slaves, Valve introduced the totally unrelated Combine instead. That just doesn't jive with me.

Which also brings me to another point. Teleporters. There are fixed teleporters all over Xen. It's probably safe to assume that the ones on Earth at Black Mesa used the same physics, as they shared artwork. Therefore, localised teleportation is possible on both worlds. Why do the Combine insist on using a vastly different way of teleporting?
Click to expand...
Considering we really don't know the big differences between the two forms of teleporting. (Other than Mossman's quote..

We're closing in on a reliable local teleport technology, something the Combine still hasn't mastered. Eli thinks their portals are string based, similar to our Colavial(sp)-model, but they fail to factor in the Dark Energy equations. They can tunnel through from their universe, but once their here they're dependant on local transportation. If they knew what we were doing with entanglement...

Dr. Kliener compressed the Xen relay FAR beyond anything he imagined at Black Mesa. We've figured out how to use Xen as an unexpressed(?) access, effectively a dimensional slingshot. So we can sling around the borderworld and come back in local space without having to pass through."
Click to expand...
So, disregarding the fact that Mossman and Eli were just guessing as to what the Combine were using, the Combine method is one of the methods Earth knows of, sans a few important bits. My guess is that the Combine, without the relay technology, only has use of Teleportation as a mass transport between dimensions, and thus use a form of teleporation that can have a massive ammount of energy put into so it can transport something like a Citidel. There's nothing stating that they can't hold the portal open indefinantly if they really wanted; there's just no reason to hold it open for that long. Once the objects they want to transfer are through, it's pointless to have it continue to suck up juice.
 
We know that the Combine and the Nihilanth had prior interactions
We know that the Combine love enslaving things with cybernetics and surgery.
We know that the head honcho of the Vorts, the thing that's keeping them enslaved, has had cybernetic and surgical alterations.
We know that, at the time of Half-Life 1, the Nihilanth considered himself and his people enslaved.
We know that as of HL2, the Vortigaunts consider their lesser master to be destroyed and that Freeman is on his way to defeating their Greater Master.
Click to expand...

^^That's exactly what I meant. Give em hell UndeadScottsman.

And it could also be the sum total of what the Combine felt they had to leave behind on Xen.
Click to expand...

^^This is exactly what I meant as well. If it's a colony, there's no point investing anything else thant the production capacity to extract the resources (the factories and the slaves) and an enforcement system to make sure nothing funny goes on (troopers & nihilanth)

But of course, nothing is certain as Valve tryed to keep it as open-ended as possible.
 
By the metal, I mean the stuff they built the Citadel from, the stuff they build Pulse Rifles from, the stuff they made the underbelly guns of the Synth from, the stuff they built the door locks from, the stuff they built the Attack helicopter from. Most things contain that metal.

And I'm sorry, but the idea of "The Combine chose not to leave any of it behind on Xen" just doesn't seem logical. Why would they remove it all? "Oh, we don't want anyone to know we've been here, despite that we're one of the largest powers in the known universe." It'd take more energy to remove all traces of their existance, and the Combine are efficient, if anything.

And you're assuming that Xen is ruled in a "rule by force" method, with the most physically powerful creature (Nihilanth) being in control. What if he';s being controlled by the "Alien Controller" mini-Nihilanths, and merely acts as a biological machine for them? There isn't some 3rd, unintroduced party controlling things. The Xenians are enslaving one another, the same way as, in our past, WE enslaved each other.

Saying that, because there are Factories on Xen producing military tech means that there must be Combine there is being rather ignorant. *WE* have factories mass-producing military technology. Does that make *US* pawns of the Combine? Mass-production is something any species that wishes to war-monger properly needs to achieve. The interiors of the Xen factory have no resemblance to that of the Combine factory, besides the "Production line" thoughts. The reason they've built upwards, rather than sideways (as with our production lines) is because Controllers - the ruling caste - can fly. It makes it oh-so-much easier for them to make sure nothing goes wrong.

And even when disregarding Mossman's quote - having a presence on Xen would mean that the Combine would have struck as part of a Portal Storm. The Manta-rays (which look nothing like any of the Combine flyers) were proven to be able to hook to Xen to beam stuff over to Earth. Why would the Combine not use this to beam their stormtroopers into key locations? Instead, they use Dropships, which carry things in a traditional method.

The things just don't gel for me.

-Angry Lawyer
 
The Combine has never altered the Nihilanth. The way we know this is simple. If they couls alter him, why dont they control the Xenians?
We know they dont control the Xenians because they escaped to Xen. Which the Combine cant access - Because they dont control the Xenians.
:O
 
Llama said:
The Combine has never altered the Nihilanth. The way we know this is simple. If they couls alter him, why dont they control the Xenians?
We know they dont control the Xenians because they escaped to Xen. Which the Combine cant access - Because they dont control the Xenians.
:O
Click to expand...
What? Xenians escaped (to Earth) after fall of Nihilanth! Before they was enslaved by Nihilanth (puppet of Combine).
 
Angry Lawyer said:
By the metal, I mean the stuff they built the Citadel from, the stuff they build Pulse Rifles from, the stuff they made the underbelly guns of the Synth from, the stuff they built the door locks from, the stuff they built the Attack helicopter from. Most things contain that metal.
Click to expand...
I don't get what your saying about it "popped in" though.

And I'm sorry, but the idea of "The Combine chose not to leave any of it behind on Xen" just doesn't seem logical. Why would they remove it all? "Oh, we don't want anyone to know we've been here, despite that we're one of the largest powers in the known universe." It'd take more energy to remove all traces of their existance, and the Combine are efficient, if anything.
Click to expand...
Like I said; that equipment is better put to use taking over new dimensions than sitting around the borderworld during a time where you already have conrol of a race that's adapted to defending the terrain.

And you're assuming that Xen is ruled in a "rule by force" method, with the most physically powerful creature (Nihilanth) being in control. What if he';s being controlled by the "Alien Controller" mini-Nihilanths, and merely acts as a biological machine for them? There isn't some 3rd, unintroduced party controlling things. The Xenians are enslaving one another, the same way as, in our past, WE enslaved each other.
Click to expand...
So the Nihilanth's race flees the Combines enslavement... to get enslaved by themselves. Seems a little counter-intuitive.

And even when disregarding Mossman's quote - having a presence on Xen would mean that the Combine would have struck as part of a Portal Storm.
Click to expand...
Again, the Xen aliens WOULD BE the Combine's presence on Xen. Beyond that, the main Combine forces would have been, more likely than not, engaged with a foe during the Black Mesa Incident. I doubt the Combine were just sitting around counting the tiles on ceiling until someone attacked one of their arms.

The Manta-rays (which look nothing like any of the Combine flyers) were proven to be able to hook to Xen to beam stuff over to Earth.
Click to expand...
Actually, considering the lack of teleporation sound or animation, I'd say it wouldn't be "proven." But that's just nitpicking

Why would the Combine not use this to beam their stormtroopers into key locations? Instead, they use Dropships, which carry things in a traditional method.
Click to expand...
Why bother expending the power to teleport things to just to end up dropping it onto a roof, when you can just truck them in with the ship itself and probably save some energy?

The things just don't gel for me.

-Angry Lawyer
Click to expand...
Probably stems from the Combine being a vaguely related concept in HL1 and getting fleshed out in HL2. (Heh, at least I was right in thinking that Laidlaw had already had them on the plate during HL1. :))
 
this intrigued me

This thread intrigued me into actually joining a forum. Oh, the delightful shame.

I read the whole thing, and both current sides appear to have some valid ideas. I have one insight of my own that I'd like to share, though. While the argument for the Combine controlling Xen rings a bit truer with me, there's one gaping flaw I noticed:

If you recall the Xen factory from HL1, there were healing kiosks set up all over the place. If the Combine had control of Xen, they would have implemented these wherever possible, and Earth would CERTAINLY be one of those places. It's already been proven that both humans and vortigaunts can use them to heal, and if the Combine had really controlled Xen, there's no WAY they wouldn't have installed these suckers all over their citadels and outposts on Earth. The Combine does not seem to be so blazingly incompetent (except the foot soldiers, but hey).

Still, it could just be one of those things they never thought of. Half-Life is certainly no stranger to plot holes (the double HEV thing being foremost of these in my mind) This could still go either way.
 
The problem is of course, we've got to make up our own argument. Because Valve never planned the Combine, and they didn't make HL1 with HL2 directly in mind. They knew, vageuly, that there'd be some 'greater master'. but they only gave shape to it with the second game. :hmph:

Also nice to see a newbie who won't spam the forums with already-asked questions, or stupid questions, or PLZ HELP ME MY TOASTER WONT RUN HL2 threads.
:cheers:
 
UndeadScottsman said:
So the Nihilanth's race flees the Combines enslavement... to get enslaved by themselves. Seems a little counter-intuitive.
Click to expand...

I was thinking its more along the lines of the Nihilanth race (The Alien controllers) already having the Vortigaunts as slaves when they first encountered the Combine.

As an analogy from history. Most ancient cultures on Earth used slaves. The Greeks did. The Romans did. The Egyptians did. The Romans went and spanked the hell out of the Greeks and Egyptians - but by the "Xen are Combine because they're both slave-using cultures" standpoint, that must mean that they were all already Romans.

And Safety brought up another valid point. Healing kiosks are something too good NOT to carry across, especially considering one of the premises of the Combine is the aquisition of tech from other races. And teleporters in the Xen breeding pits. Neither of these technologies were implemented in Earth's citadel, when it would have made it a hundred times more efficient.

-Angry Lawyer
 
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