Communists

[Bob_Marley]

One of my lecturers here is a marxist type, writes for some commie rag too. But that had very little to do with me disliking her, it was much more to do with her grating, high pitched American accent.

But, to be honest, I don't generally have a problem with people over thier political view point. What does get my goat are trendy commie wannabes. You're not a communist, you're not even properly left wing. You're a middle class white kid who wants to be different, but in a few years you'll be voting labour and reading the Daily Fail just like your dad. Make peace with who you are for pete's sake and get on with doing something productive.

 

[Freols]

Go on any political march and you will see them. Nice chaps for the most part.

It's the anarchists that are nasty pieces of work.

 

[Raziaar]

Whoops. I completely skipped over the brackets.

That's how people die! <stabs you>


EDIT: wait... I reread it again...

The poll options are completely misleading.

I've met at least one communist and I liked them well enough. (easy to interpret answer)

I've met at least one communist and I didnt like (or hated) them. (this can be taken two ways! You didn't like them, or you didn't like them so much that you actually hated them. It can also be read that you don't like them or hate them, basically that you're indifferent to them.

I've never met one, but I like them well enough. (easy to interpret answer)

I've never met one, but I don't like them (or hate them) (This can be treated as the other one worded like this. Two potential meanings.)

I am a communist.(easy to interpret answer)


Apparently I didn't read it clearly enough the first time, and didn't notice the ambiguity of the options!

 

[Remus]

It's shit on paper too, as it reduces the individual to a number whose sole purpose of life is to be a member of the masses and is supposed to feel and act like everyone else.

What I meant was, that at first it might seem like a good idea to equally divide resources/money/whatever, but if you actually stop and think about it... This really isn't fair in the slightest.

An example: on the one hand you have an air traffic controller with long work hours in a highly stressful environment, and on the other hand you have an average janitor with no need for proper education and significantly less stress and responsibility. And they both get paid the same... :|

In a society like that there's no incentive to pursue higher education or want stressful/dangerous jobs.

 

[CptStern]

commies are hot:

 

[Polaris]

 

[Raziaar]

Conservafreak chick alert! Ann Coulter Alert!

 

[Raziaar]

commies are hot:

Am I losing my mind, or did he post this before too somewhere? I have a funny feeling here.


EDIT: Shit, double post. Sorry.

EDIT 2: Oh right it was in the people I don't like thread. I'm not losing it!

 

[CptStern]

yes I was trying to get Numbers to join the dark side

 

[Raziaar]

I always wonder with all that North Korean unison and choreographed shit that they're always showing off... what happens to the people who screw up.

I'm sure some people screw up sometimes. Nobody is perfect, even a highly trained individual might stumble once in his life. Especially earlier in their career.

I bet they get pulled aside and flogged.

 

[Krynn72]

That's how people die! <stabs you>


EDIT: wait... I reread it again...

The poll options are completely misleading.

I've met at least one communist and I liked them well enough. (easy to interpret answer)

I've met at least one communist and I didnt like (or hated) them. (this can be taken two ways! You didn't like them, or you didn't like them so much that you actually hated them. It can also be read that you don't like them or hate them, basically that you're indifferent to them.

I've never met one, but I like them well enough. (easy to interpret answer)

I've never met one, but I don't like them (or hate them) (This can be treated as the other one worded like this. Two potential meanings.)

I am a communist.(easy to interpret answer)


Apparently I didn't read it clearly enough the first time, and didn't notice the ambiguity of the options!

Read my OP Jerk! I specifically laid it out for people like you!

It's shit on paper too, as it reduces the individual to a number whose sole purpose of life is to be a member of the masses and is supposed to feel and act like everyone else.

Replace the word "masses" with "rich few" and you've got Capitalism.

 

[CptStern]

I always wonder with all that North Korean unison and choreographed shit that they're always showing off... what happens to the people who screw up.

they're fed into meat grinders and served at official government functions

 

[Raziaar]

Read my OP Jerk! I specifically laid it out for people like you!

My apologies. <grovels>

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

South Koreans understandably hate communists. Funnily enough the militaristic groupthink spurred by military culture there is equally as frightening to me. I say this in the most shamelessly ignorant way possible, as I have no idea what it's like to live with that looming fear.

 

[nurizeko]

I saw a couple people in the "People I Dont Like" thread list Communists. I'm wondering how many of you guys actually met a communist. There still seems to be a lot of hate generated towards communists, but I'm betting its mostly because of propaganda and not actual experience with communists. I see no reason why they should be hated any more than any other people with other ideologies, even if you disagree with them.

I've only known one guy who was a communist, and he was cool as hell. He fapped a lot though, and would actually answer the door in the middle of it (covering himself in a blanket or newspaper thankfully).

EDIT: And before you give me any lip about why theres no "i dont care" option, its one of the "liked them well enough" options. This is to see how many people actually dislike them. Not whether you actually like them or are apathetic to them.

Your not really a communist until your in a communist system and "communist" systems tend to be run by ****tards.

So nope, still dislike commie scum.

You don't get to call yourself a communist while buying Prada.

 

[Solaris]

I dunno; I'm kind of still a communist. I think things could be ordered better and production done for use rather than profit. But I'm not sure...

 

[thefiznut]

I'm only a communist in that I feel it is an ideal structure for human beings to work and live in. Having grown up entirely in America it still feels odd saying that to people, but there's really only so much you can do. Marx himself described the process in which a capitalist system would transform to a socialist, through revolution and very harsh one at that. It's extremely unlikely to happen, and I acknowledge that fact. I feel that our capitalist way of life turns people into selfish profiteers, placing their own well being far above others, and quite frankly it annoys me. Even many of my own coworkers clearly show up to work to earn their money, and they half-ass nearly everything they do just to make it through the day and earn that beloved paycheck.

For what it's worth, I am a part of the American working class and my I do maintain an exceptional work ethic. I produce a quality product for others, and I do so solely in the hope that they will enjoy the fruits of my labor, and go on to do the same for others. My parents are also working class citizens and thanks to their corporation's lack of conscience they've been treated like shit for many years only to get laid off now that the corp dug it's own grave. Auto industry anyone?

 

[repiV]

If you think a total lack of individuality, freedom and self-determination for the populace, coupled with a total lack of innovation, progress or wealth for society is a good thing, then I think a reality check is in order.

Replace the word "masses" with "rich few" and you've got Capitalism.

News to me. I have no desire to be one of the "rich few", I don't live to work. And once you have enough money to meet your needs, you really don't need any more. Not having enough money is shit, but having an excess of money doesn't make you any happier. Seen plenty of evidence of this in my working life where the very high-earning salespeople and executives in certain do-or-die company cultures are ****ing miserable as sin. That's a life only a fool would want. I can pay for my bills, my beer, my bikes and the odd holiday, I enjoy my work and I always leave the office on time. Why would I want anything more than that?

 

[Eejit]

If we ever reach post-scarcity economy something similar to Communism would be alright. Kinda like The Culture.

 

[repiV]

A post-scarcity economy would render all current economic systems and science totally redundant.

A world where resources are infinite and everyone can devote their life to the things they want to accomplish and not the things they need to acquire, would be amazing and wonderful.

Unfortunately, we don't live in such privileged times, and a communist today is either a dangerously naive individual who cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, or an outright menace.

 

[Stigmata]

Why does Communism require infinite resources and Capitalism (apparently) does not?

 

[The Monkey]

Replace the word "masses" with "rich few" and you've got Capitalism.

Agreed.

Both capitalism and communism are enemies to the individual.

 

[15357]

South Koreans understandably hate communists. Funnily enough the militaristic groupthink spurred by military culture there is equally as frightening to me. I say this in the most shamelessly ignorant way possible, as I have no idea what it's like to live with that looming fear.

It's more than the military culture, it's a way of thought cultured by geographical influences. Living in a peninsula, and being targeted by barbarians or neighboring nations for centuries, 'us' has never been more important. It's even imbedded in the language. We never say "my country" or "my homeland". We always say "our" or "us". It's always "our" country or "our team" or "our military". The invention of something by someone that belongs to our nation is always "our" invention. Korean is always "our language" or "our people".

And the commies in the north don't make it any easier.




In my life, I've met a few communists, I liked them well enough when they didn't talk politics. I never really could hate someone I knew. (few exceptions aside)

However, I percieve them as "dangerous" and "harmful" to society. They're like a cancer, a disease. Their ideas are like a virus. But that's just me.

The word "communist" stirs many feelings in South Koreans, first of which is the perception that it is an insult. Secondly, especially among older generations and women is fear. We no longer live in constant fear, but only a decade or two ago, the thought of a communist incursion and subsequent communiztion of the peninsula was enough to send shivers down spines. Go back a few more years, and you had mothers telling children that the communists might come if they didn't stop crying. A kind of negative-Santa Claus effect (bad children don't get visited by Santa, bad children get visited by commies).

After nearly 60 years, communism is nevertheless hated. It's a part of the south Korean psyche, however we may try to pretend otherwise.



edit: The question is... somewhat confusing. I've met like 4 commies in my life and hated 2. The commies I've never met, I've invariably hated.

 

[Krynn72]

News to me. I have no desire to be one of the "rich few", I don't live to work.

Where did you get this idea from. Nothing either of us said presumed people wanted to be "one of" either scenario. I didn't say you wanted to be one of the rich few, nor did Monkey say anything about people in a communist civilization wanting to be part of "the masses." I really have no idea what you're trying to say here, or why you're even saying it.

And once you have enough money to meet your needs, you really don't need any more. Not having enough money is shit, but having an excess of money doesn't make you any happier. Seen plenty of evidence of this in my working life where the very high-earning salespeople and executives in certain do-or-die company cultures are ****ing miserable as sin. That's a life only a fool would want. I can pay for my bills, my beer, my bikes and the odd holiday, I enjoy my work and I always leave the office on time. Why would I want anything more than that?

Hah, sounds like you'd quite enjoy a communist society. Everything you said there leans you away from capitalism and more towards communism. Enough wealth to live on, but no excess? Yup. Decent enough job that you do during work hours and then leave when its done? Yup. Content with the average lifestyle? Yup.

What do you think a communist society would be like? A completely totalitarian one, where you're told exactly what to do every moment of every day without any freedoms whatsoever, and everybody is piss-poor living in shanties and totally miserable? I really dont think you have a clue about how it works or what communism actually means.

 

[Stigmata]

In before "But look at how all the other communist governments turned out!"

a.k.a. probably the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.

 

[Krynn72]

Yeah, I thought of bringing that up and doing a preemptive rebuttal, but I figured that would be a whole other battle.

 

[PvtRyan]

If by communists you mean douchebags who go on about "the evil corporations man, they're like, evil dude, man, dude", then yeah and I think they should be kicked down a flight of stairs.

What do you think a communist society would be like? A completely totalitarian one, where you're told exactly what to do every moment of every day without any freedoms whatsoever, and everybody is piss-poor living in shanties and totally miserable? I really dont think you have a clue about how it works or what communism actually means.

Well, for it to "work", there have to be some things made illegal. In a pure communist society, it should be highly illegal to claim private ownership of something, it should also be illegal to sell anything. You can't argue against that, it requires freedom deprivation by very definition.

Anyway, in a society that's ethical and altruistic enough to make communism work is also ethical enough to make capitalism perfectly ethical.

 

[PvtRyan]

In before "But look at how all the other communist governments turned out!"

a.k.a. probably the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.

In before "the USSR wasn't really true communism".

a.k.a. the no true Scotsman logical fallacy.

 

[repiV]

Why does Communism require infinite resources and Capitalism (apparently) does not?

If there were infinite resources, all would have equal access to them by default and no compromises would be required. So defining it in terms of communism or any other current economic system is irrelevant. It's not really communism if the resources don't have to be equally distributed because they are limitless and you can use as much or as little as you want, towards whatever aims you personally choose. No system of control is required.

Scarcity of resources creates the need for wealth generation, which communism is absolutely shit at. And I believe that people should get out what they put in, I don't see why society's wasters should get exactly the same amount as I do for doing nothing.

The nature of our world means that a communist society would take away all self-determination and opportunities for self-improvement. And all it would do is make everyone poor. Pretty basic stuff, really...

Where did you get this idea from. Nothing either of us said presumed people wanted to be "one of" either scenario. I didn't say you wanted to be one of the rich few, nor did Monkey say anything about people in a communist civilization wanting to be part of "the masses." I really have no idea what you're trying to say here, or why you're even saying it.

You said that in a capitalist society the only purpose in life is to be one of the rich few. Which is, frankly, nonsense. Your purpose in life is whatever you want it to be, you merely have access to the tools to make your own money and run your own finances.

Hah, sounds like you'd quite enjoy a communist society. Everything you said there leans you away from capitalism and more towards communism. Enough wealth to live on, but no excess? Yup. Decent enough job that you do during work hours and then leave when its done? Yup. Content with the average lifestyle? Yup.

Communism wouldn't give you enough wealth to live on, a decent enough job or an average lifestyle. It would give you the same poverty as everyone else and no opportunities to improve your lot, the same manual labour as everyone else, and the same shit, aimless lifestyle as everyone else. Nor would it give you freedom or choices.

For that matter, I make quite a lot more than the average for my demographics which I need to do to sustain the lifestyle I want to lead. I just have no desire to be "rich" or sacrifice my quality of life for wealth. My job wouldn't even exist in a communist society as I work in sales. I also enjoy the fact that I earn my own money, and can't imagine anything worse than being a slave to the state in a world where everyone lives off benefit payments. What an awful prospect...

I don't quite see why you think I'd enjoy a communist society, I'm a very individualistic person who hates all forms of authority and control. How exactly do you think I would fit in in a collectivist society where everything has to be "for the good of the people"?

What do you think a communist society would be like? A completely totalitarian one, where you're told exactly what to do every moment of every day without any freedoms whatsoever, and everybody is piss-poor living in shanties and totally miserable? I really dont think you have a clue about how it works or what communism actually means.

Yes, everyone WOULD be piss-poor and totally miserable. 90% of the world's population live in developing countries, where do you think that leaves us if you "share the wealth equally"?

One of the most important factors in determining happiness is the ability to control your own destiny and forge your own way in life. Something which you will never, ever have under communism.

And all communist societies will eventually become totalitarian, because the individual has no power and the state has all of it.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

I know one communist. He's a really nice guy, but a bit fanatical. I avoid discussing politics with him

 

[nipples]

What's with all the communist and hippie hate?

 

[Krynn72]

Initiating multiquote response:

You said that in a capitalist society the only purpose in life is to be one of the rich few.

No I didnt. Re-read what I quoted and what I said.

Communism wouldn't give you enough wealth to live on, a decent enough job or an average lifestyle. It would give you the same poverty as everyone else

Why would everyone be poor? I'm not talking about having the entire earth as one communist nation, but a successful communist nation that is actually doing well would have all of its citizens living well also.

and no opportunities to improve your lot, the same manual labour as everyone else, and the same shit, aimless lifestyle as everyone else. Nor would it give you freedom or choices.

I admit, I am no expert on communism or what specifically it entails, but I definitely dont think that it requires every citizen to have a manual labor job. That wouldn't make any sense whatsoever.

For that matter, I make quite a lot more than the average for my demographics which I need to do to sustain the lifestyle I want to lead. I just have no desire to be "rich" or sacrifice my quality of life for wealth.

I dont see how this is relevent.

My job wouldn't even exist in a communist society as I work in sales. I also enjoy the fact that I earn my own money, and can't imagine anything worse than being a slave to the state in a world where everyone lives off benefit payments. What an awful prospect...

In our capitalist world you earn your living by working for money with which to pay for the things you need. In a communist world, you earn your living by working for the things you need. Its not a whole lot different.

I don't quite see why you think I'd enjoy a communist society, I'm a very individualistic person who hates all forms of authority and control. How exactly do you think I would fit in in a collectivist society where everything has to be "for the good of the people"?

Judging solely from what you've said in this thread, it seems like you'd be happy in either form of society. Like Monkey said, capitalism and communism are both enemies to the individual. Capitalism simply caters more towards the people who want to rise up above others, which you have said twice now that you dont want to do.

Yes, everyone WOULD be piss-poor and totally miserable. 90% of the world's population live in developing countries, where do you think that leaves us if you "share the wealth equally"?

Like I said, I'm not talking about a global communist nation. I dont know where you got this idea from. A communist nation wouldn't give its wealth to other nations.

One of the most important factors in determining happiness is the ability to control your own destiny and forge your own way in life. Something which you will never, ever have under communism.

Again, I am no expert on the topic, but I dont see why a communist civilian couldnt have goals and aspirations which they could attain. Perhaps there are not as many as a capitalist society, but that doesnt mean they couldnt have any control.

And all communist societies will eventually become totalitarian, because the individual has no power and the state has all of it.

You can't prove that.

 

[Solaris]

A key part of communist beliefs is that there would always be abundant resources, because everything would be so more efficient.

Right now there is a sizeable amount of people unemployed, doing no work at all. Under communism, these people would always have access to jobs by the state, or would get nothing. There would be no unemployment benefit as there would always be employment available.

Right now of those employed, how many do something that actually produces anything usable or ever helpful. Advertising, insurance, markets, stock brokers... so many people do jobs that just would not be nessacary in a communist economy.

Also, of those that do work in say retail or whatever, how much of that is nessacary, my home town does not need 4 major supermarkets, if one of them was made slightly bigger, the other 3 could be closed down and that would save so much labour.

This would mean people would only need work 3day weeks or whatever.

 

[kirovman]

I thought you were a free market advocate now, Solaris?

 

[Solaris]

I don't know; the free market certainly seems more revolutionary over the last 20 years. However I still think things could be better.

I no longer hold any faith in the 'proletariat' and I certainly am no comrade of most of the current communist groups.

 

[CrazyHarij]

Opponents and proponents of socialism, read this:
http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/hist_texts/wilde_soul.htm

Communism wouldn't give you enough wealth to live on, a decent enough job or an average lifestyle. It would give you the same poverty as everyone else and no opportunities to improve your lot, the same manual labour as everyone else, and the same shit, aimless lifestyle as everyone else. Nor would it give you freedom or choices.

Are you ****ing kidding me, viper? Have you looked at the state of the world lately?

Yes, everyone WOULD be piss-poor and totally miserable. 90% of the world's population live in developing countries, where do you think that leaves us if you "share the wealth equally"?

One of the most important factors in determining happiness is the ability to control your own destiny and forge your own way in life. Something which you will never, ever have under communism.

Where the **** do you get these ridiculous ideas from? What the **** do your english schools teach you about communism and capitalism?
"Controlling your own destiny" ****ing LOL. In modern society, money controls your destiny.

The main thing about communism is that as an ideology, it is a utopia, hence not actualized. "No true scotsman" is a lazy cop-out.

You said that in a capitalist society the only purpose in life is to be one of the rich few. Which is, frankly, nonsense. Your purpose in life is whatever you want it to be, you merely have access to the tools to make your own money and run your own finances.

Tell that to the unemployed

Agreed.

Both capitalism and communism are enemies to the individual.

Capitalism is an enemy to humanity. Communism states that the individual should have what he/she needs so that he can do what he/she wants.

 

[Acepilotf14]

My history teacher in 9th grade was a commie.
Bitch, she was always way too happy and would never yell.

btw, if money controls your destiny, getting moar money gives you a better destiny.
or a blown stock ticker.
whichever comes first.

 

[Seppo]

Too many communists in this thread.

 

[PvtRyan]

A key part of communist beliefs is that there would always be abundant resources, because everything would be so more efficient.

Right now there is a sizeable amount of people unemployed, doing no work at all. Under communism, these people would always have access to jobs by the state, or would get nothing. There would be no unemployment benefit as there would always be employment available.

Right now of those employed, how many do something that actually produces anything usable or ever helpful. Advertising, insurance, markets, stock brokers... so many people do jobs that just would not be nessacary in a communist economy.

Also, of those that do work in say retail or whatever, how much of that is nessacary, my home town does not need 4 major supermarkets, if one of them was made slightly bigger, the other 3 could be closed down and that would save so much labour.

This would mean people would only need work 3day weeks or whatever.

This just proves that communism was an idea meant for an agricultural society, of manual, unschooled labor. Developed countries haven't been production driven for a long time, but service driven. Yay, factory jobs for everyone, all to serve The Great Leader!

Those "useless" jobs you sum up are a requirement for innovation. They provide the reason why research and production jobs can exist.

Are you ****ing kidding me, viper? Have you looked at the state of the world lately?

Yeah, and believe it or not: the world is better than it has ever been and is only improving. We do not need communism to "save us".

 

[The Monkey]

communism was an idea meant for an agricultural society

*facepalm*