L
Logic
Guest
Sampling is not composing, however it is a process that can be used for composing.
If you just slap together some pre-made loops, you're not composing, since you're not actually directly creating any of the musical material.
However,
You can use samples in music and still be 'composing'. It's a matter of how much you rely on samples. If you are relying on samples for the basic musical content of your piece, it can be argued that you're not composing. If you're creating music yourself, and using samples that fit into your music, you are composing. (for example, you record your own piano part, which is the basis of the chords and musical content of the piece, then you add a drum loop, and perhaps a few different bass riff samples for different sections. You are still composing.)
It's a fine line though. It's all a matter of how much you're relying on the samples.
It's also a very subjective issue to argue about - for example, considering that very little popular music uses any chord patterns that haven't been churned out a HUNDRED THOUSAND TIMES already, you could probably argue that the creators are relying too heavily on musical material that they didn't create, and are therefore arranging more than composing. Obviously, though, there is also a very fine line of distinction here, and it's very subjective.
With that said, it's my belief that while many people who use samples extensively aren't composing at all, it is still very possible to compose music, even entirely made up of samples. I've done it myself. It all depends on how much creative input you are having over the musical content of the piece. For example, if you make a piece of music out of one drum loop, one bass riff, and a few different piano riffs, you're not composing, but if you have hundreds of samples of chopped up Wagner pieces or something, and you assemble them and blend them together in ways that create interesting new musical content, you are most definately composing. Those are extremes, and as you get closer to the middle, the fine line blurs, and people start to disagree.
That's my 2 cents. I think there will always be disagreement in terms of what's considered composing.
If you just slap together some pre-made loops, you're not composing, since you're not actually directly creating any of the musical material.
However,
You can use samples in music and still be 'composing'. It's a matter of how much you rely on samples. If you are relying on samples for the basic musical content of your piece, it can be argued that you're not composing. If you're creating music yourself, and using samples that fit into your music, you are composing. (for example, you record your own piano part, which is the basis of the chords and musical content of the piece, then you add a drum loop, and perhaps a few different bass riff samples for different sections. You are still composing.)
It's a fine line though. It's all a matter of how much you're relying on the samples.
It's also a very subjective issue to argue about - for example, considering that very little popular music uses any chord patterns that haven't been churned out a HUNDRED THOUSAND TIMES already, you could probably argue that the creators are relying too heavily on musical material that they didn't create, and are therefore arranging more than composing. Obviously, though, there is also a very fine line of distinction here, and it's very subjective.
With that said, it's my belief that while many people who use samples extensively aren't composing at all, it is still very possible to compose music, even entirely made up of samples. I've done it myself. It all depends on how much creative input you are having over the musical content of the piece. For example, if you make a piece of music out of one drum loop, one bass riff, and a few different piano riffs, you're not composing, but if you have hundreds of samples of chopped up Wagner pieces or something, and you assemble them and blend them together in ways that create interesting new musical content, you are most definately composing. Those are extremes, and as you get closer to the middle, the fine line blurs, and people start to disagree.
That's my 2 cents. I think there will always be disagreement in terms of what's considered composing.
coax
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Yep. I agree with Logic. BUT.
The music I listen to, does not revolve around chords and more traditional composing.
It's more atonal/noise'ish(mind you I don't listen to noise, but take Arne nordheim f ex.)
If you go to www.warprecords.com , and take a listen to Autechres audio samples, you'll see what I mean.
What they do is they record stuff in the real world, and they take noises/pads/etc from the internet or cds or whatever, and blend them into something that can turn out very special.
This is what I would call an artform.
They have disassembled their own samplers, and put in new features etc to get the most out of them.
Not alot of people actually like that music, but I find it very stimulating.
The timbre and general 'quality' of the sound, is completely their doing..
Melody and structure comes second.
edit: and oh, the sampler is really just a way to trigger a sound, or chop it up, they put filters and all sorts of trickery on them once it's in the computer. And believe me, I've tried to create music like that for months now, and it's way harder to do than create melody lines and bass lines/drum loops with a drum machine.
The music I listen to, does not revolve around chords and more traditional composing.
It's more atonal/noise'ish(mind you I don't listen to noise, but take Arne nordheim f ex.)
If you go to www.warprecords.com , and take a listen to Autechres audio samples, you'll see what I mean.
What they do is they record stuff in the real world, and they take noises/pads/etc from the internet or cds or whatever, and blend them into something that can turn out very special.
This is what I would call an artform.
They have disassembled their own samplers, and put in new features etc to get the most out of them.
Not alot of people actually like that music, but I find it very stimulating.
The timbre and general 'quality' of the sound, is completely their doing..
Melody and structure comes second.
edit: and oh, the sampler is really just a way to trigger a sound, or chop it up, they put filters and all sorts of trickery on them once it's in the computer. And believe me, I've tried to create music like that for months now, and it's way harder to do than create melody lines and bass lines/drum loops with a drum machine.
piGfreeZer
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Autechre....mmmhhhh Autechre !!!!!
(best music ever)
I agree with coax.
Autechre make stuff that is really complicated not because they are creating complex melodies, but because they arrange sounds in a way that it produces something special - sometimes really weird too - sounds.
I tried to make something like that with FL Studio 4 (ok it's not really professional but I can do almost whatever I want with it) and it's really hard to achieve.
but, hum, I think I'm off-topic right now...
Well, creating music by aligning loops or samples with a basic flanger effect on them, is not an artform I'd say. You create something with another thing, just like a puzzle, or LEGOs.
Now, composing, it's like creating your own samples for your own music, it's much more complicated.
oh,and when you're talking about "samples", you mean "loops of drums" or "samples of snare" (for example) ?
(best music ever)
I agree with coax.
Autechre make stuff that is really complicated not because they are creating complex melodies, but because they arrange sounds in a way that it produces something special - sometimes really weird too - sounds.
I tried to make something like that with FL Studio 4 (ok it's not really professional but I can do almost whatever I want with it) and it's really hard to achieve.
but, hum, I think I'm off-topic right now...
Well, creating music by aligning loops or samples with a basic flanger effect on them, is not an artform I'd say. You create something with another thing, just like a puzzle, or LEGOs.
Now, composing, it's like creating your own samples for your own music, it's much more complicated.
oh,and when you're talking about "samples", you mean "loops of drums" or "samples of snare" (for example) ?
piGfreeZer
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eJay is pure crap, mwahaha
I agree with people who say that using samples is not composing... I mean, every dickhead who have a damn eJay and some pre-made loops can create music, of course.
But using single drum sample or piano sample is composing: you're creating your own loops.
Fruityloops is great because of this "freedom of creativity" (I dunno if you understand what I'm trying to say here :/ )
Reason has great generators too, but the use of custom samples is quite limited. I can be mistaken there, cause I didn't use reason a lot...
I agree with people who say that using samples is not composing... I mean, every dickhead who have a damn eJay and some pre-made loops can create music, of course.
But using single drum sample or piano sample is composing: you're creating your own loops.
Fruityloops is great because of this "freedom of creativity" (I dunno if you understand what I'm trying to say here :/ )
Reason has great generators too, but the use of custom samples is quite limited. I can be mistaken there, cause I didn't use reason a lot...
L
Logic
Guest
I don't know about reason 1.x , but I've used 2.5 quite a bit, and I've found it to be a very freely creative program. Provided you have a midi keyboard hooked up, you can pull up some synths and play in whatever you want. As for loading in custom samples, you can do that by using an external program to convert samples into compatible formats. Reason is obviously geared towards certain styles of music, but you can certainly be very creative within it.
Agent4054
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Doh. I think I just realized my flaw here (a bit too late tho). It seems i automatically assumed that to make drum and bass music was to create something entirely of loops. My bad. JJ never actually said he used loops or samples in his first post, and I'm a dumbass for not thinking correctly. Damnit.
H
*HEL*Karri
Guest
Ooh, reading through the topic, I thought of jumping in, but it seems you all settled your differences already. 
Anyway, the way I see it, you create a hard techno song with little harmonic qualities, you are producing. Often linked to post-production etc., a producer nowadays also means the creator of the music, especially in electronic music circles.
You create a classical piece or a short piano piece for a film or for anything, you are obviously composing.
Then there's the stuff between these two.
Hybrid, a great British (IMO) project/'band' combining breakbeat and four-on-the-floor beats and sound production with classical melodies and scores with strings etc.
Trance, that most often uses pretty simple melodies and chords, but of course also incorporates lots of sound production, quite possibly also some readymade percussion loops etc.
Anyway, don't matter to me what you call it, as long as you don't steal it (it's OK to borrow some bits, though, it sounds good and fits it's purpose.
-----------------------------------
Oh, and me myself? I've tried Cubase VST5, Cubase SX, Reason, Orion Studio (or whatever the name of the best Orion was) and Renoise.
I started making music way back in the *true* bedroom style, trackers. Keeping this in mind it's natural that Renoise has stuck to me best. I mostly use one-shot samples for drums etc., I usually find it tedious to stretch etc. loops for the right tempo. This is, of course, made easier by ReCycle, but I still prefer to construct everything from one-shot. Most of the harmonic stuff I do with VST instruments - those synths are pretty amazing these days.
I mainly (try to) do techno, trance etc. kind of stuff, but I'd love try a game soundtrack style production. Either a japanese RPG kind of thing or then an FPS soundtrack where the tracks change depending on situation or drama.
I don't have any formal training, but I understand the basics. Can't notate too good, so a sequencer/tracker style setup is more natural. Unfortunately, there are two other things I suck at:
a) Mastering / mixing
b) Getting songs done
;P
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Will pretend I didn't see the double post - Sniper
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Anyway, the way I see it, you create a hard techno song with little harmonic qualities, you are producing. Often linked to post-production etc., a producer nowadays also means the creator of the music, especially in electronic music circles.
You create a classical piece or a short piano piece for a film or for anything, you are obviously composing.
Then there's the stuff between these two.
Hybrid, a great British (IMO) project/'band' combining breakbeat and four-on-the-floor beats and sound production with classical melodies and scores with strings etc.
Trance, that most often uses pretty simple melodies and chords, but of course also incorporates lots of sound production, quite possibly also some readymade percussion loops etc.
Anyway, don't matter to me what you call it, as long as you don't steal it (it's OK to borrow some bits, though
, it sounds good and fits it's purpose. -----------------------------------
Oh, and me myself? I've tried Cubase VST5, Cubase SX, Reason, Orion Studio (or whatever the name of the best Orion was) and Renoise.
I started making music way back in the *true* bedroom style, trackers.
Keeping this in mind it's natural that Renoise has stuck to me best. I mostly use one-shot samples for drums etc., I usually find it tedious to stretch etc. loops for the right tempo. This is, of course, made easier by ReCycle, but I still prefer to construct everything from one-shot. Most of the harmonic stuff I do with VST instruments - those synths are pretty amazing these days.I mainly (try to) do techno, trance etc. kind of stuff, but I'd love try a game soundtrack style production. Either a japanese RPG kind of thing or then an FPS soundtrack where the tracks change depending on situation or drama.
I don't have any formal training, but I understand the basics. Can't notate too good, so a sequencer/tracker style setup is more natural. Unfortunately, there are two other things I suck at:
a) Mastering / mixing
b) Getting songs done
;P
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Will pretend I didn't see the double post
- Sniper----------------------------------------------------------
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