Congress passes the Health Care Bill

Krynn72 said:
What the ****? Do you make <$10,000 dollars or something? I paid 25% of my income to taxes.
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<$10,000 would be like 8% over here

25% should be around 18% ~ 20% as well.

How come your government takes so much money, and yet you don't even have national health insurance?
 
15357 said:
<$10,000 would be like 8% over here

25% should be around 18% ~ 20% as well.

How come your government takes so much money, and yet you don't even have national health insurance?
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America spends it on defence and it's empire.
 
NumbersLand spends a fair bit on defense too though.
 
Isn't it kind of odd, to be fighting a defensive war in Iraq and Afghanistan? It is kind of like how Americans always say that they fought WW2 to preserve their liberty and freedoms... because the Nazis and Japanese were going to invade America... right.

Eejit said:
NumbersLand spends a fair bit on defense too though.
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A fair bit of Uncle Sam's dollar.
 
an estimated 60% of americans who previously went without healthcare (27,000,000) stand to be covered by the new healthcare reform bill. somehow the right has spun this to mean it's a bad thing
 
It's going to take about four years and more debt to implement, though. After that it should cut costs in the long run.
 
In my mind there is little difference between the bureaucracy of the government and the bureaucracy of private companies. I strongly dislike BOTH. Just because I don't like the idea of the government taking over more and more of my life doesn't mean I bow down to the "evil" corporations.

And what makes you think Government is ANY more benevolent that corporation? Companies have to give us something if they want to make money... government can just take it. Good governments can go bad just like corporations can. They both lose sight of what matters and become concerned only with making money and staying in power.

I've said this before: Its about balance.

Everyone knows the system needs work (even some of the insurance companies), we're just arguing over what is the best way to go about it.

The smart people don't buy into the Liberal vs Conservative bull shit. We try to find the proper balance between government involvement and free market economics/liberty. We tend to favor regulation over direct government intervention because we have learned from history that government will abuse its power just like the corporations will. So we try to balance the powers that bee without giving one or the other too much power.

You can squabble with your pseudo-ideologies but in the end you are only debating on who his going to rape you in the ass latter.
 
lord_raken said:
And what makes you think Government is ANY more benevolent that corporation?
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The fact that the government-run healthcare in my country and those in the vast majority of western countries are more benevolent than the corporate-run healthcare in yours.
 
lord_raken said:
In my mind there is little difference between the bureaucracy of the government and the bureaucracy of private companies. ...And what makes you think Government is ANY more benevolent that corporation?
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the government is not motivated by profit. you conveniently/purposefully omited that factoid. the bottom line = more important than the patient's health. this is stupidly obvious that one has to wonder if you've had your head in the sand the whole time


lord_raken said:
The smart people don't buy into the Liberal vs Conservative bull shit. We try to find..
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you're being a little presumptuous arent you?



lord_raken said:
Just because I don't like the idea of the government taking over more and more of my life doesn't mean I bow down to the "evil" corporations.
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no offense but this is absolutely retarded. how is the gubernment taking over more and more of your life? you sound like a conspiracy nut
 
CptStern said:
ya but the government is not motivated by profit. you conveniently/purposefully omited that factoid.




you're being a little presumptuous arent you?
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The government is motivated by POWER AND MONEY. Politicians vote themselves par raises all the time, they give themselves great retirements and healthcare. They do what they need to to get reelected. If their constituents demanded pick fuzzy bunnies they would get them for them if it meant being reelected.

Money and power, money and power. In corporations and government it always the same.

And No. I'm not being presumptuous. History has already proven me right over and over and over again.
 
lord_raken said:
The government is motivated by POWER AND MONEY. Politicians vote themselves par raises all the time, they give themselves great retirements and healthcare. They do what they need to to get reelected. If their constituents demanded pick fuzzy bunnies they would get them for them if it meant being reelected.
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why would any one politician have any say as to how expensive a speculuum is in some backwoods area of butt**** idaho? please explain in detail how politicians would manipulate the insurance policies of some of the poorest americans around. you're trying to link politiicans with corruption but failing to say how exactly they'd accomplish this. just by being politicians "OH YOU JUST KNOW THEY'LL TAKE A CUT" ..paranoid ramblings based on nothing. you sound like a conspiracy nut

lord_raken said:
Money and power, money and power. In corporations and government it always the same.
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such a overgeneralised and childish/immature pov. the only evidence you're bringing to the table is that, and I'm paraphrasing: "well at some point during their careers politicians lust for power therefore the reform healthcare bill will never work"

paranoid ramblings

lord_raken said:
And No. I'm not being presumptuous. History has already proven me right over and over and over again.
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yes you're being presumptuous; because you didnt get my point. here let me hilight the pertinant words:

lord_raken said:
The smart people don't buy into the Liberal vs Conservative bull shit. We try to find..
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you're being a little presumptuous arent you?
 
Eejit said:
NumbersLand spends a fair bit on defense too though.
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The US Fed spends 23% of our yearly budget on defense :|

Also, @ raken: The people vote politicians into power, and their stay in the government is always finite. The people have much more say in how things are run than we do in the corporate world. Plus the government must be run with a good deal of transparency, unlike corporations, so it is much easier to identify problems.
 
lord_raken said:
The government is motivated by POWER AND MONEY. Politicians vote themselves par raises all the time, they give themselves great retirements and healthcare. They do what they need to to get reelected. If their constituents demanded pick fuzzy bunnies they would get them for them if it meant being reelected.

Money and power, money and power. In corporations and government it always the same.
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This has really become a cliche of the opposition to healthcare reform.

We all know politicians can be assholes and sleazes, but they're not some elitist demon caste above the people. I'm sure there are humans among them with an honest sense of public service.
 
Ridge said:
What empire?
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North America, Latin America, much of the Pacific Ocean, Japan, Canada, the Caribbean, some of the Middle East, South Korea, and Texas.

'Empire' in modern day is no longer literal.
 
south korea is cuz they asked for help against the north

would you prefer a numbers that worships kim jon il?

also I dont know about unioversal health care stuff,but since that seens to work fine here in europe then I guess it shouldnt be aproblem in the usa

also another thing is that in my country there was public healthcare before chavez,that it was worse is another thing but it existed,cuz now chavez say that there wasnt public healtcare before and start bringing cuban medics cuz is "soberany"

also isnt supposed that the bill was very "reduced"?
 
even some republicans are afraid of some of their own:

I've been on a soapbox for months now about the harm that our overheated talk is doing to us. Yes, it mobilizes supporters -- but by mobilizing them with hysterical accusations and pseudo-information, overheated talk has made it impossible for representatives to represent and elected leaders to lead.

Now the overheated talk is about to get worse. Over the past 48 hours, I've heard conservatives compare the House bill to the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854 -- a decisive step on the path to the Civil War. Conservatives have whipped themselves into spasms of outrage and despair that block all strategic thinking.
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http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/03/22/frum.healthcare.gop.strategy/index.html?iref=allsearch
 
Acepilotf14 said:
North America, Latin America, much of the Pacific Ocean, Japan, Canada, the Caribbean, some of the Middle East, South Korea, and Texas.

'Empire' in modern day is no longer literal.
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I dont believe we have any military bases in Latin America (excluding Guantamo Bay, which we lease from Cuba), the Pacific Ocean bases consist of a runway and a few buildings on an island that has room for only that.

Japan we share a couple bases with them as a means of bolstering their defensive forces, in addition to keeping a closer eye on our friends the Chinese and the Norks.

Middle East, we have no permanent bases, just some installations on general use airports in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

Texas is part of our country. It joined us. If you are going to count Texas, then you have to count Alaska, Hawaii, and the other 47 states.
 
latin america bases are in cuba and colombia and some in the DUTCH territories of the caribean
also in honduras and some other central american zones

there was one in ecuator where the goverment asked them to leave and the evil americans do the horrible thing of leaving
 
I suppose I should have specified.

You are taking 'empire' in a more literal sense, as in troops and armies forcing vassals.

Empires can be of influence and economies as well.
 
I wish this stuff would go into effect sooner.

:(
 
Acepilotf14 said:
I suppose I should have specified.

You are taking 'empire' in a more literal sense, as in troops and armies forcing vassals.

Empires can be of influence and economies as well.
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In that case, I guess the US is in the Latin American empire, since they have such an effect on us, as well...
 
did you even read the links I provided? not one mention of torture or overthrowing. so why bother even posting that? because by posting something alarmist and completely offtopic you drown out any criticism aimed at the US.
 
Ridge said:
In that case, I guess the US is in the Latin American empire, since they have such an effect on us, as well...
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...are you claiming that South America exerts more influence on the USA, the world's one and only superpower, than vice versa?
 
Ridge said:
Texas is part of our country. It joined us. If you are going to count Texas, then you have to count Alaska, Hawaii, and the other 47 states.
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lol guys, he didn't get the joke.
 
AJ Rimmer said:
...are you claiming that South America exerts more influence on the USA, the world's one and only superpower, than vice versa?
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Not more, but there is certainly a lot of influence.

Lets face it. Economies are a two way street. You cant influence one group without influencing back the other way.
 
latin america needs the usa

why you think there is still so much commerce even if some countryes acuse the usa of espionage and else?
 
It's globalisation. The spreading of American culture to other nations of the world, including the spreading of ideologies, such as in Iraq. Iraq isn't really a "defensive war" more than it is a globalisation issue, where the US is trying to impose democracy and [generally Christian] morals into a Muslim country. We could allocate more resources to domestic reform rather than trying to make another US in a country that doesn't want to be that.

Dan said:
Isn't it kind of odd, to be fighting a defensive war in Iraq and Afghanistan? It is kind of like how Americans always say that they fought WW2 to preserve their liberty and freedoms... because the Nazis and Japanese were going to invade America... right.
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You're completely right; this isn't a defensive war. However, the Nazis and Japan would have gone to the US next. Japan was obviously going for an empire, as can be seen by its attack on Pearl Harbour and its incursion into Manchuria and the Rape of Nanjing. It's a stretch to call it logical (because then I would be hit with the presumptuous hammer), but after Hitler took over Europe he would have likely gone for the US and later collided with the Japanese Empire, as no two empires can co-exist without wanting to take one another over.

EDIT: On-topic: Yayyyyyy
 
Can someone please explain to me how the new health-care system isn't going to end up as debt-ridden as the current system of Medicaid and such? Without taxes?
 
Ridge said:
Not more, but there is certainly a lot of influence.

Lets face it. Economies are a two way street. You cant influence one group without influencing back the other way.
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Yeeeees, but do you really think it's wrong to say that the US cultural, economic and military influence might be just a *tad* on the dominant side in certain regions of the world?
 
Noodle said:
Can someone please explain to me how the new health-care system isn't going to end up as debt-ridden as the current system of Medicaid and such? Without taxes?
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You must be new to the politics forum.

Logic and common sense have no place in here.
 
Noodle said:
Can someone please explain to me how the new health-care system isn't going to end up as debt-ridden as the current system of Medicaid and such? Without taxes?
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I guess they expect all the rich people to pay for it. :upstare:

Any way, Unless they do some serious cleaning up of the system this will prove to just be another hole for our money to disappear into.

Ridge is right. Its hard to have intellectual conversation here. Mostly its people making outrageous statements and then flaming everyone who disagrees with them. (sometimes I wish I was a Mod, but that's not the best idea cause then I would totally abuse that power and ban a bunch of people... can you guess who would be on top of the list?)
 
lord_raken said:
sometimes I wish I was a Mod, but that's not the best idea cause then I would totally abuse that power and ban a bunch of people... can you guess who would be on top of the list?)
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everyone who disagrees with you?
 
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