Racism snuck into healthcare bill

[Sparta]

We're going in circles here.

And again, blacks have more freedom to offend than any other race.

Bollocks. Blacks and hispanics are subjected to more racism, hence they call out racism more often.

Think of the uproar if there was a National Associate for the Advancement of White People.

That would be because 90% of the U.S. is white. The government may as well be called the National Associate for the Advancement of White People, because they were voted in by that majority in the first place, so they obviously care the most about their needs since they are 90% of the constituents of the U.S.

Or a Mexican History Month.

Oh no! A Hispanic History Month! It's almost as if every other month besides Black History Month and Hispanic History Month isn't White History Month already!

Or high gang activity at a George Washington Carver High School, always located on John Fitzgerald Kennedy Boulevard.

I don't know what this means nor its relevance?

Or if all of U2's music was about doing illegal drugs, hanging out with hookers, and shooting Interpol officers...

Yeah because U2 is representative of all white people the way 50 Cent is representative of all black people.

 

[Tyguy]

Nice theory there. There is no stigma laid upon them by other Americans for one time being slaves.

The mere fact that there are high volumes of racism in the United States is a testament to my statement. They aren't resented because of slavery, they're resented because of their skin colora dn the bigoted propaganda.

In fact, those two are part of the primary reason these people act as they do. Sharpton and Jackson continue to tell these people they are being mistreated, hated and so on and so forth, without there actually being any animosity held towards them.

The problem here seems to lie with Sharpton and Jackson. They aren't the spokesman for black people yet the media turns to them every chance they get when there is some poignant issue involving racism. They do more harm than good for the black community.

My point is this: The reason for the lack of wealth and power within some black communities is due to the nature in which they came to appropriate in this country. I'm not completely refuting your statement that some are just lazy and take advantage of the system, but I'm sticking by my assertion that these types of poverty stricken environments are a direct result of the still rampant racial tension.

I absolutely believe it would be a better place had the Americans and British and French and Spaniards not set foot there.

Ya, slavery is best avoided.

 

[No Limit]

So Ridge, only historically black schools are getting money under this bill? No? Then you are just making shit up again, aren't you? Unless your argument is that while all these other schools get money under this bill the black schools shouldn't get a penny.

 

[Krynn72]

Another chapter out of the progressive argument book.

Haha, Ridge watches Glenn Beck.

 

[CptStern]

Wow, dont go and commit suicide over all that white guilt.

If we had not transported them over for slaves, they would still be in Africa.

The reason they are more likely to be illiterate, impoverished, or involved in crime is because of their unwillingness to stand up and try to make their lives better, instead, of complaining about the establishment holding them back. If all of humanity had that lack of motivation, we probably would not have figured out the wheel or fire, ffs.

I am all for social mingling and integration. Dont you dare call me a ****ing racist and saying I wished they all lived in ghettos. The last couple generations have had just as much an equal chance at success as all the others. It is their choice to continue to play the victim.

wow, and you expect me/everyone to trust you're rational enough to handle firearms? a pulse just isnt good enough any more imho, they need tougher standards



[] all men are created equal

[] all races are inferior to whitey



btw why is it that it's always the people who seem to have the craziest povs who are armed? ...the question sort of answers itself I guess

 

[StarBob]

I read through these posts on racism because I'm always interested in the subject, but everyone seems to have forgotten a very important aspect that keeps being repeated.

HISTORICALLY black colleges. Colleges aren't specifically segregated, that's just how it went. A segregated college maintained a mostly black population. It is not exclusive. It's illegal for it to be so. Giving money to this school is no different that giving money to any other school that has a predominant demographic. Also in this bill are provisions to increase pell grants and better control and distribute student loans. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a fairly significant increase to the overall cost considering it's a bill designed to only make available affordable insurance, not free insurance.

It's something like kids getting reduced lunch fees in school. Some kids pay full price, some kids bring their own, some kids get reduced lunch fees, and some get free lunch. Before you either got free lunch if you didn't have any money (medicaid), paid full price or brought your own (private insurers). Now you'll be paying for the lunch basically at cost. These people are still paying, so I'm not sure how it could add up to a trillion dollars round about.

Personally I love education reform. This is pretty far from racially bound. It may be somewhat racially motivated, but certainly not in a negative aspect for anyone since everyone can go there.

 

[Shyam]

Wow, dont go and commit suicide over all that white guilt.

Oh please. Shut your mouth. People need to learn their lessons from the past, but move on. But you can't deny there are certain advantages to growing up a white male. If your answer is no, I assume you have been through this in High School ?

"Go back to your own third world shithole"

"Oh shit, this guy's a terrorist"

"f***ing curry muncher".

I got that treatment plus got bullied because as an Indian I was a weak target. I am so glad I am in university.

But I do believe as a white male you do get a step up. If I am wrong, I then apologise.

 

[Ridge]

In today's political correct world, being a white male is a disadvantage when it comes to getting into universities or getting jobs. Quotas for racial diversity and affirmative action mean that a person who is more qualified to get the job might not get it simply because he is white, and the company either:

A) Doesnt want to appear racist for hiring whites over blacks
B) Gets government tax breaks for hiring more minority workers.

I'm sorry that you were harassed in high school by a bunch of immature punks. I'm sure you'll see that in the real world, people are scared to death of doing that to you in an educational or workplace environment.

 

[Stigmata]

I'm sure you'll see that in the real world, people are scared to death of doing that to you in an educational or workplace environment.

It doesn't work like that. Intolerance doesn't just disappear when you get a job and turn 21. The same people that were bullying Shyam are out there working their jobs and hating brown people.

Furthermore:

"In the real world, people are scared to death of doing that to you in an educational or workplace environment."

This is precisely where Shyam experienced racism. In the real world, racists are everywhere.

 

[Raziaar]

In today's political correct world, being a white male is a disadvantage when it comes to getting into universities or getting jobs. Quotas for racial diversity and affirmative action mean that a person who is more qualified to get the job might not get it simply because he is white, and the company either:

A) Doesnt want to appear racist for hiring whites over blacks
B) Gets government tax breaks for hiring more minority workers.

I'm sorry that you were harassed in high school by a bunch of immature punks. I'm sure you'll see that in the real world, people are scared to death of doing that to you in an educational or workplace environment.

Are your average universities today dominated by minorities? Or are they typically dominated by white people?

 

[Ridge]

It doesn't work like that. Intolerance doesn't just disappear when you get a job and turn 21. The same people that were bullying Shyam are out there working their jobs and hating brown people.

Furthermore:

"In the real world, people are scared to death of doing that to you in an educational or workplace environment."

Yeah they are still out there, being hateful. Its a shame. But if they harassed a colleague because of his skin color, HR would bring the banhammer down in no time. This is precisely where Shyam experienced racism. In the real world, racists are everywhere.

In a public school environment. I mean in secondary schools...colleges, universities, etc... Yes, they are still out there, being hateful. Its a travesty. But if they harassed him about his skin color, HR or the school officials would bring the ban hammer down in no time flat.

Are your average universities today dominated by minorities? Or are they typically dominated by white people?

When I was in school, I'd say it was probably half to just under half whites, and the rest were obviously minorities...I'd say it was a pretty even spread across asians, indians, latinos and blacks. And I was on a campus that held 3 different universities.

 

[Top Secret]

That would be because 90% of the U.S. is white. The government may as well be called the National Associate for the Advancement of White People, because they were voted in by that majority in the first place, so they obviously care the most about their needs since they are 90% of the constituents of the U.S.

Ignorance.

Please at least GOOGLE something before you assume 90% of the Unites States is WHITE. Also, less than 50% of the United States will be white in the next 30-35 years. That is before I will be retired. (Which, believe me, I don't mind diversity.)

Second, giving money to specifically historically black colleges is just pathetic. I am so sick of this affirmative action based on race bullshit. It should be done by POVERTY. If the "historically black schools" are the most poor, then they will receive money. (And I'm sure they would/should). It should not be "Oh, you are black, here is money for school." It should be "Oh, you are poor, here is money for school." If blacks are the poorest minority (I would assume they are), then this will still help them without leaving dirt poor white, latino, and asian people in the dust.

I AM ****ING POOR. MY CITY IS POOR. MY COMMUNITY COLLEGE IS 1.5 MILLION DOLLARS IN THE HOLE. But there are no black people here, so we will not get as much money.

 

[Solaris]

Ignorance.

Please at least GOOGLE something before you assume 90% of the Unites States is WHITE. Also, less than 50% of the United States will be white in the next 30-35 years. That is before I will be retired. (Which, believe me, I don't mind diversity.)

Second, giving money to specifically historically black colleges is just pathetic. I am so sick of this affirmative action based on race bullshit. It should be done by POVERTY. If the "historically black schools" are the most poor, then they will receive money. (And I'm sure they would/should). It should not be "Oh, you are black, here is money for school." It should be "Oh, you are poor, here is money for school." If blacks are the poorest minority (I would assume they are), then this will still help them without leaving dirt poor white, latino, and asian people in the dust.

I AM ****ING POOR. MY CITY IS POOR. MY COMMUNITY COLLEGE IS 1.5 MILLION DOLLARS IN THE HOLE. But there are no black people here, so we will not get as much money.

Did you not see what Nolimit said?

So Ridge, only historically black schools are getting money under this bill? No? Then you are just making shit up again, aren't you? Unless your argument is that while all these other schools get money under this bill the black schools shouldn't get a penny.


LOTS OF SCHOOLS ARE GETTING EXTRA FUNDING, JUST SOME OF THEM ARE HISTORICALLY BLACK Why is this racist????

Jesus, trying to argue with these guys is the most infuriating thing I've seen on these messageboards in a long time. I've really no doubt these guys are closet racists. They just can't be that stupid otherwise.

 

[Ridge]

I'm not a racist. John Mayer is a racist. Al Sharpton is a racist. I'm willing to give everyone a chance at doing what they want. How about you? Sounds like you think everyone is fair except the white man. That would make YOU the racist in this thread.

 

[Solaris]

I'm not a racist. John Mayer is a racist. Al Sharpton is a racist. I'm willing to give everyone a chance at doing what they want. How about you? Sounds like you think everyone is fair except the white man. That would make YOU the racist in this thread.

No. Answer Nolimit, he made an excellant point.

I'll quote him again:


So Ridge, only historically black schools are getting money under this bill? No? Then you are just making shit up again, aren't you? Unless your argument is that while all these other schools get money under this bill the black schools shouldn't get a penny.

 

[Ridge]

Them, and community colleges, which get lots of federal and state funding anyways. My argument is that there shouldnt be any of this funding going to any of the schools.

1) Our economy is in shambles because of handing out money left and right
2) What does that have to do with healthcare?

 

[Stigmata]

Them, and community colleges, which get lots of federal and state funding anyways. My argument is that there shouldnt be any of this funding going to any of the schools.

1) Our economy is in shambles because of handing out money left and right
2) What does that have to do with healthcare?

1) Your economy is in shambles partially because of handing out money left and right to the wrong places and people. Remember those billions of dollars that went to the banks (who paid their employees insane amounts of money in exchange for having brought your country's financial situation to its lowest point since the Great Depression), and nothing really changed? That's a much larger contributor than your everyday run-of-the-mill bureaucratic mismanagement.

2) Aren't you the one that brought up the allocation of scholarship funding in the first place?

 

[Solaris]

Them, and community colleges, which get lots of federal and state funding anyways. My argument is that there shouldnt be any of this funding going to any of the schools.

1) Our economy is in shambles because of handing out money left and right
2) What does that have to do with healthcare?

What's that got to do with racism?

So you're argument now is, colleges shouldn't get any extra money compared to last year, and to do so is racism?

 

[Maestro]

This thread can be summed up:

Ridge: Racist health bill is racist.
Everyone Else: No, Ridge, you be racist.
Ridge: NO U
EE: NO U
Ridge: NOT ME, U IZ RACISTs
EE: NO U

Repeat ad nauseam.

 

[Ridge]

What's that got to do with racism?

So you're argument now is, colleges shouldn't get any extra money compared to last year, and to do so is racism?

No, my argument is that we dont have the money to be throwing around. And even if we did, it should be spread evenly to all schools, or to all schools in poorer neighborhoods.

The school mentioned in the article is in a well to do area, and caters to the community through private and government scholarships directed towards blacks.

This thread can be summed up:

Ridge: Racist health bill is racist.
Everyone Else: No, Ridge, you be racist.
Ridge: NO U
EE: NO U
Ridge: NOT ME, U IZ RACISTs
EE: NO U

Repeat ad nauseam.

1. This isnt 4chan. Learn to spell and use grammar.
2. The old standby of calling someone a racist because they dare question this program brought to you by the great and powerful Oz, err, Obama.

Life is tough being the Pariah of the Politics Forum.

 

[Solaris]

No, my argument is that we dont have the money to be throwing around. And even if we did, it should be spread evenly to all schools, or to all schools in poorer neighborhoods.

The school mentioned in the article is in a well to do area, and caters to the community through private and government scholarships directed towards blacks.

You've yet to say anything remotely substantiating your claim that the healthcare bill contains 'racism'.

Also, I think you're lying in the bolded part, becuase the article refers to historically black and community colleges. Not one school.

What you need to do is either substantiate this or act like a mature adult and apologise for throwing around the race card in an argument it has no place in.

 

[Shyam]

tbh, I don't get ridge. You are white, what is there to worry about. Right ?
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Right ?

 

[Ridge]

Solaris, I've given up on trying to explain anything to you. In the original article, it specifically mentions Bethune-Cookman University.

Shyam, if you want to be racist, then fine. I am of white skin, yes. But I am barely eeking out a living here, going paycheck to paycheck. I have to pawn items of mine sometimes in order to pay my bills. Everything is not fine and dandy in the world of Ridge, simply because of his complexion.

 

[Top Secret]

LOTS OF SCHOOLS ARE GETTING EXTRA FUNDING, JUST SOME OF THEM ARE HISTORICALLY BLACK Why is this racist????

It is racist because the bill is going "Historically Black University = we give them more money"

It's based on race. Therefore -> RACIST

As opposed to what I suggest which is "Historically poor school = we give them more money"

WHICH MAKES SENSE.

 

[David.Seth2]

It is racist because the bill is going "Historically Black University = we give them more money"

It's based on race. Therefore -> RACIST

As opposed to what I suggest which is "Historically poor school = we give them more money"

WHICH MAKES SENSE.

I actually agree with that. Should be more about the poor schools in low income towns. And if a majority of those schools happen to be "historically black universities" then its all good. Unless I'm missing something in the original wording of the bill..

 

[Solaris]

It is racist because the bill is going "Historically Black University = we give them more money"

It's based on race. Therefore -> RACIST

As opposed to what I suggest which is "Historically poor school = we give them more money"

WHICH MAKES SENSE.

Nope, you'll have to actually substantiate that claim that the reasons these schools are getting extra money is purely on race grounds and has nothing to do with the socio-economic status of it's students.

It's like if a black guy got a job and you say "It's racist becuase black man = give him a job", whilst totally ignoring other factors.

The burden of proof is on you here to show that this is actually racist, rather than make outlandish and unsubstantiated claims.

You could use your arguments here against any black person getting anything, "he's only getting it becuase he's black!". I again re-assert my belief that there is racism here, but it isn't to be found in the health bill. But in your very criticisms of it.

 

[David.Seth2]

I actually agree with that. Should be more about the poor schools in low income towns. And if a majority of those schools happen to be "historically black universities" then its all good. Unless I'm missing something in the original wording of the bill..

Ok, well after doing some research on "historically black universities" aka HBCU's, I found that while they were intended for blacks back in the day, its not so much of the case today. Bluefield State College's school body is 90% white. I guess the extra funding went towards these schools because not only are they hurting for money, but they've been screwed before:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historically_black_colleges_and_universities

 

[Tagaziel]

Someone hold me. An HL2.net user did research on a subject in the Politics section and it took only FIVE pages to get to this point.

It's the end of days.

 

[David.Seth2]

in my defense i only came across this thread an hour ago and just skimmed through it. also, its only on page 2 for me

 

[Top Secret]

Nope, you'll have to actually substantiate that claim that the reasons these schools are getting extra money is purely on race grounds and has nothing to do with the socio-economic status of it's students.

It's like if a black guy got a job and you say "It's racist becuase black man = give him a job", whilst totally ignoring other factors.

The burden of proof is on you here to show that this is actually racist, rather than make outlandish and unsubstantiated claims.

You could use your arguments here against any black person getting anything, "he's only getting it becuase he's black!". I again re-assert my belief that there is racism here, but it isn't to be found in the health bill. But in your very criticisms of it.

You are an idiot.

 

[VirusType2]

But I am barely eeking out a living here, going paycheck to paycheck. I have to pawn items of mine sometimes in order to pay my bills. Everything is not fine and dandy in the world of Ridge, simply because of his complexion.

Maybe stop spending your money on M-16's?

The bill also provides more than $4 billion to historically black colleges, including Bethune-Cookman University. Community colleges would also receive a share of the money.

"Racism snuck into healthcare bill"

More like cfnews13.com decided to write it that way, instead of listing all of the schools. I don't think you can take what's written on some news site as verbatim from the bill itself unless it explicitly quotes something. Therefore, calling a bill racist over what some news website says is unfounded.

 

[Solaris]

You are an idiot.

The only retort I need here is the underline function. Good argument.

 

[Stigmata]

You are an idiot.

This is not how arguments and debates work. In fact, this is one of the reasons why they often don't work.

 

[Tagaziel]

in my defense i only came across this thread an hour ago and just skimmed through it. also, its only on page 2 for me

I retract my statement. You, sir, are NOT an idiot.

 

[kineaesth]

This is not how arguments and debates work. In fact, this is one of the reasons why they often don't work.

Hence, infractions!

 

[Eejit]

Them, and community colleges, which get lots of federal and state funding anyways. My argument is that there shouldnt be any of this funding going to any of the schools.

Since when is that your argument? I don't think anyone would have gotten that from the OP, or any of your replies on the first page.

 

[Sparta]

Ignorance.

Please at least GOOGLE something before you assume 90% of the Unites States is WHITE. Also, less than 50% of the United States will be white in the next 30-35 years. That is before I will be retired. (Which, believe me, I don't mind diversity.)

I'll give you that part about 90%. I was wrong, it's not 90%, it's 75% of the population of the U.S. is white, because I massively underestimated the latino population being 15% of the population U.S. but that's a bit tricky that 15%. And that estimation about the U.S. being 50% white is off by about 5-10 years and it's kind of hazy. It's estimated to be 46% at 2050 but that's only if you're counting all the Non-Hispanic white people. If you count hispanic white people (like Martin Sheen, Christina Aguilera or Cameron Diaz), that bumps the number up quite a bit to around 60% and up.

Second, giving money to specifically historically black colleges is just pathetic. I am so sick of this affirmative action based on race bullshit. It should be done by POVERTY.

If the "historically black schools" are the most poor, then they will receive money. (And I'm sure they would/should). It should not be "Oh, you are black, here is money for school." It should be "Oh, you are poor, here is money for school." If blacks are the poorest minority (I would assume they are), then this will still help them without leaving dirt poor white, latino, and asian people in the dust.

That's already what's going on, but the problem remains that even with affirmative action, there are far more laws and legislations that greatly favor the white people in getting into universities, than there are affirmative action laws and legislations that help minorities do the same thing. It doesn't really make sense that the rich majority gets the most help to be first in line for the education of their choice.

I AM ****ING POOR. MY CITY IS POOR. MY COMMUNITY COLLEGE IS 1.5 MILLION DOLLARS IN THE HOLE. But there are no black people here, so we will not get as much money.

Oh come on man. Just because some reporter/blogger pointed out that historically black colleges/universities got money in the healthcare bill, that doesn't mean that the government only gives stimulus and welfare to black people.

It is racist because the bill is going "Historically Black University = we give them more money"

It's based on race. Therefore -> RACIST

As opposed to what I suggest which is "Historically poor school = we give them more money"

This is what they actually do! They don't just single out black people and throw money at them!

The fact that it's written as "historically black schools" in the OP, shows this is more a problem of language than anything else. When a legislation is written that entitles universities/colleges/schools to government funds, they aren't reported in the news as being "historically white colleges/whatever" even though there's a significantly larger chance they will be (in the very least I'd say proportionate to the percentage of the whites in the U.S.) Yet when said institution is demographically black, it's reported as being "historically-black" and conservatives get shitty and start railing about affirmative action and how everything is fair enough already and everyone's already on a level playing field so why this reverse discrimination then? This is nonsense.

In today's political correct world, being a white male is a disadvantage when it comes to getting into universities or getting jobs

In today's fiscally challenged world, being a billionaire is a disadvantage when it comes to getting reservations at my country club.

I suggest you watch this. It's both funny, truthful and in your case, informative: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY

 

[CptStern]

In today's political correct world, being a white male is a disadvantage when it comes to getting into universities or getting jobs

? do you live in some bizarro world where up is down? as a white man I can assure you that that isnt even remotely true. I have never in my career seen an immigrant favoured over a native canadian (all other things being equal). in fact I've seen the exact opposite, recent immigrants/people with accents will be passed over a job simply because of their communication skills. in fact I've heard on more than one occasion my boss and other bosses saying that they want to hire a recent immigrant because they're CHEAPER than a native; in other words in their minds they're so desparate for a job they'll take a low wage whereas a native wont

ess than 50% of the United States will be white in the next 30-35 years.

ok lets examine this for a moment

some facts from the 2000 census:

- Data show that nearly seven million Americans identified themselves as members of two or more races.

- In the 2008 American Community Survey, 46.8 million Americans (15.4% of the total population) listed themselves as ethnically Hispanic or Latino American. Of those, 62.3% (29.2 million) self-identified as racially white. The remaining respondents listed their race as: Some other race 30.2%, multi-racial 3.9%, Black or African American 1.9%, American Indian and Alaska Native 1.0%, Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander 0.05%, and Asian 0.4%.

- 75% of americans are white. that means in 40 short years that number would have to drop to 50% and hispanics/blacks/asians would have to jump to 50% from 15% (remember that 15% also included americans who also identified themselves as white), 12% and 4%. so while it's not that big of a stretch to believe that 31% could jump to 50% in 40 short years ...especially if you actually look at the numbers:

- The Census Bureau projects a U.S. population of 439 million in 2050, which is a 46% increase from 2007


so there's a reason as to why there could be an increase of 19% in favour of minorities; the US birth rate for whites is a little below average (1.9%) in comparison to that of minorities (hispanic being the highest at 2.9%) however that wont account for such an extreme population growth. so immigration is the only other avenue. however the point that's missed is that the overwelming majority of immigrants come from non white countries. so where exactly do you want these white people to come from? they're not leaving their own countries in droves so of course there's going to a growth in the number of visible minorities; it's fueled by immigration. either attract more white people or shut your borders. what it boils down to is that the US isnt attracting white immigrants, not that whites are becoming a minority; that's a by product of not having enough white immigrants in comparison to non white immigrants. so this whole ZOMG AMERIRCA IS BEING TAKEN OVER BY MINORITIES is just a lot of alarmist claptrap


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Race_and_ethnicity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_a..._between_ethnicity_and_race_in_census_results
http://discuss.prb.org/content/interview/detail/1172/

 

[Blackthorn]

But I am barely eeking out a living here, going paycheck to paycheck. I have to pawn items of mine sometimes in order to pay my bills. Everything is not fine and dandy in the world of Ridge, simply because of his complexion.

Even if you're poor, being white still does make life easier. I've grown up on very, very low on the economic ladder; I'm what would be called disadvantaged. In my college, white students are very much the minority, and I live on a housing estate where the same ratio is true. But still, it is an easier life for me than the black people, and other minorities, that surround me. I may be poor, but I'm white and well-spoken, so I'm never treated like I'm poor. I communicate with people easily, and I'm never patronised or discriminated against by any authority. The same is not true for black people here, and I have no doubt it's even worse in America.

For the record, I disagree with just about everything you've said in this thread. The above view of yours was the only one I felt I could add some input on that has not been added already.

 

[Absinthe]

I know I'm persecuted every day for being white.