Conservative Radio Host Mancow Muller Gets Waterboarded

[The Monkey]

people that are a threat to this nation not some random Ingrid of the streets of London.

this answers Polaris's question as well.

You fucking idiot. Do you realize that most of the people subjected to waterboarding haven't been tried in a court? And since the rule of thumb since Roman times have been "innocent until proven guilty", that means these suspects are innocent. So you wouldn't mind if we did this to some other "innocent" people, say you and your family? Oh, we're also gonna lock you up for eight years with no charges.

 

[15357]

I agree with unozero that foreignors should be waterboarded.













Wait, what?




p.s. Nobody really cares about anything they don't know about. *wink wink*

 

[unozero]

You fucking idiot. Do you realize that most of the people subjected to waterboarding haven't been tried in a court? And since the rule of thumb since Roman times have been "innocent until proven guilty", that means these suspects are innocent. So you wouldn't mind if we did this to some other "innocent" people, say you and your family? Oh, we're also gonna lock you up for eight years with no charges.

last time I checked my family wasn't Muslim and/or involved in terrorist acts.,you "****ing idiot."
most people that are subjected to this kind of torture are involved in terrorist activities in one way or the other,spare me the semantics bullshit "but they haven't been court!" etc.
I have an unpopular opinion and suddenly everyone wants to torture my family because I'm not against certain integration methods?


buu ****ing hoo.
You can wish me and my family is much misfortune as you like...over the internet lol.
lo even went through the trouble and changed fonts for "****",does that make it super effective??? lol

 

[jet_porkins]

last time I checked my family wasn't Muslim and/or involved in terrorist acts

Surely you mean "Muslim extremists"?

 

[Tyguy]

last time I checked my family wasn't Muslim and/or involved in terrorist acts.,you "****ing idiot."
most people that are subjected to this kind of torture are involved in terrorist activities in one way or the other,spare me the semantics bullshit "but they haven't been court!" etc.
I have an unpopular opinion and suddenly everyone wants to torture my family because I'm not against certain integration methods?


buu ****ing hoo.
You can wish me and my family is much misfortune as you like...over the internet lol.
lo even went through the trouble and changed fonts for "****",does that make it super effective??? lol

i hope your family prospers and you have a good life.

but ya, it's wrong...we shouldn't be giving them water.

 

[unozero]

Surely you mean "Muslim extremists"?

All terrorists these days that threaten the U.S and its allies are Muslim,but of course not all Muslims are Terrorists.




I c what u did thar.

 

[Kadayi]

last time I checked my family wasn't Muslim and/or involved in terrorist acts.,you "****ing idiot."
most people that are subjected to this kind of torture are involved in terrorist activities in one way or the other,spare me the semantics bullshit "but they haven't been court!" etc.
I have an unpopular opinion and suddenly everyone wants to torture my family because I'm not against certain integration methods?


buu ****ing hoo.
You can wish me and my family is much misfortune as you like...over the internet lol.
lo even went through the trouble and changed fonts for "****",does that make it super effective??? lol

When the FBI stop by with the search warrant and find the plans to the synagogue and the Semtex under your bed, think nothing off it :dozey:

 

[15357]

unozero's got a point.


Although I'm not going to elaborate on that because I'm afraid that you guys might try and kill me.

 

[Shakermaker]

spare me the semantics bullshit "but they haven't been court!" etc.

Police officer comes by your house and arrests you without charging you and puts you away indefinitely.
Unozero: "But .. but ... I have rights."
Officer: "Nah, those are just semantics. Welcome to the brave new world."

 

[MultiVaC]

last time I checked my family wasn't Muslim and/or involved in terrorist acts.,you "****ing idiot."

Who cares? If they don't need to try you in court, it doesn't really matter what you have or haven't done. That's the whole problem.

 

[Sparta]

All terrorists these days that threaten the U.S and its allies are Muslim

Yeah, Timothy McVeigh was Muslim all right. Those two neo-nazi's arrested late last year for planning to assassinate Obama on the day of his Inauguration were Muslims too.

The I.R.A.?
Hardcore Muslims

The K.K.K?
Bigger than Hardcore Muslims

Jewish Defense League?
Biggest Muslims I ever seen

I say screw the U.S. Constitution, Bill Of Rights, Geneva Convention and all other stupid laws, both national and international and we just go about torturing whoever reads about Mohammed or the plight of the Palestinians, because once people start reading about that, they just start making bombs and blowing themselves up for no good reason, so we better kill them dead before they get the chance to do it themselves I reckon.

All tomfoolery aside, you're a bit of a jerk if you think it's ok to torture.

I know the argument is always "What if there was a nuclear bomb on U.S soil and the terrorist know where it is but won't tell?" Can you imagine if that actually were the case? Every level of law enforcement in the country would be on the lookout and I'm fairly certain that with all the technology and manpower the C.I.A and the N.S.A have, they'll find the thing before it goes off if they already know that much. That's not including the numerous police departments throughout the U.S.

 

[CptStern]

torture doesnt work, kindness does:

In 2006, a U.S. military interrogator who goes by the name Matthew Alexander was dispatched to Iraq to head the team that was trying to track down Zarqawi. As we now know, the U.S. military was using what it called aggressive interrogation tactics that not only blurred the line between interrogation and torture -- they crossed that line.

But Matthew Alexander insisted that he could get better results without those tactics and still get Zarqawi's people to give him up. And in the end, he did.

Matthew Alexander isn't his real name. It's one he has assumed in order to write a book about his experiences. The book is called, How To Break a Terrorist: The U.S. Interrogators Who Used Brains, Not Brutality to Take Down the Deadliest Man in Iraq.

listen to the interview (part 2), it's with someone who actually knows what he's talking about

http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/2009/200905/20090512.html


here he is on the dailyshow

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=212890&title=matthew-alexander

 

[Sparta]

here he is on the dailyshow

But everyone knows The Daily Show is run by satanic communists who want nothing better than to eat the poor and rape babies while ruining the country. Why should I trust any godless liberal who appears on that CptStern?

 

[CptStern]

surprisingly enough that works for every single media outlet except Fox"news". it's the only media outlet in the west that isnt run by jewish lizards


oh wait Rupert Murdoch is a jew!!! ....most likely a self loathing jewish lizard!

 

[unozero]

Police officer comes by your house and arrests you without charging you and puts you away indefinitely.
Unozero: "But .. but ... I have rights."
Officer: "Nah, those are just semantics. Welcome to the brave new world."

stupid argument as I said before...I am a law abiding citizen,the popo have no reason what so ever to come to my house.
"what if" arguments are for preschoolers.



sparta very weak arguments of course the people you mention are terrorist,the last white nationalist attack was in 94 irc....This thread is about water boarding,the only people that had to endure this of late are modern day Muslim terrorists,or have you seen something about KKK members getting water boarded on TV??

yeah,thought so.

stop trying to shift the context of the thread by nitpicking my argument about who else could be a terrorist.

LAMEST ATTEMPT EVER.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

stupid argument as I said before...I am a law abiding citizen,the popo have no reason what so ever to come to my house.
"what if" arguments are for preschoolers.



sparta very weak arguments of course the people you mention are terrorist,the last white nationalist attack was in 94 irc....This thread is about water boarding,the only people that had to endure this of late are modern day Muslim terrorists,or have you seen something about KKK members getting water boarded on TV??

yeah,thought so.

stop trying to shift the context of the thread by nitpicking my argument about who else could be a terrorist.

LAMEST ATTEMPT EVER.

Highlighted, we see unozero helpfully commentating on his own posts. I, for one, welcome this new style of posting as it will hopefully lead to improved posts in the future.

 

[Polaris]

What about anthrax bioterrorist attacks carried out by Bruce Ivins after 9/11?
Imagine bioterror "clicking bomb scenario" (yes, popular what if argument), can be white Americans waterboarded too?

 

[Sparta]

sparta very weak arguments of course the people you mention are terrorist,the last white nationalist attack was in 94 irc....This thread is about water boarding,the only people that had to endure this of late are modern day Muslim terrorists,or have you seen something about KKK members getting water boarded on TV??

yeah, thought so.

stop trying to shift the context of the thread by nitpicking my argument about who else could be a terrorist.

Hang on, you haven't told me how my arguments are weak yet. You said all terrorists who threaten the U.S. or its allies these days are Muslims and I pointed out you were wrong, then you shift the context back to waterboarding, then immediately after you have a go at me for shifting the context?

But not before you say it's ridiculous that the police would ever come after you as you're a law-abiding citizen, thereby completely missing the point, which you then follow up with by saying "What If" arguments are for preschoolers. The very same method of arguing used by conservatives to justify waterboarding.

So, getting back to the original topic of waterboarding and ignoring what you said about "what if's", explain to me what kind of scenario warrants torture?

 

[Kadayi]

LAMEST ATTEMPT EVER.

I say we nuke the site from Orbit, it's the only way to be certain :dozey:

 

[Krynn72]

I wish Unzero and people like him were dead.

But its ok, thats not a thread. I'm not a muslim so you know I'm not a terrorist.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, unozero, but your position as stated so far is as follows:

- It's okay to torture "foreign nationals".
- "Foreign nationals" is defined not as including any "random Ingrid" (?) but rather specifically those foreingers who are "a threat to this nation".

With that established, you further state:

- Such people do not need to be tried or even charged because they are terrorist muslims.
- Because they are terrorist muslims, no formal legal process to determine whether they are terrorist muslims is necessary.
- People who are not terrorist muslims ("law abiding citizens") are entitled to legal procedure which will confirm whether or not they are terrorist muslims.

Please confirm whether this is correct or not.

Alternatively:

- you propose that some mechanism outside of legal process is sufficient to determine whether a person is a terrorist muslim.

If so, please state what this mechanism is.

 

[Krynn72]

Sulk, I do believe you are mistaken about Unzero's views of who should be tried or not. You say "Muslim Terrorists" when, according to the quote below, Unzero believes they dont even necessarily need to be a terrorist, just a Muslim.

So you wouldn't mind if we did this to some other "innocent" people, say you and your family?

last time I checked my family wasn't Muslim and/or involved in terrorist acts.,you "****ing idiot."

 

[Sulkdodds]

I realise the semantic content of "and/or" would imply that, but unozero later clarified that while he believes all modern terrorists to be are muslims, not all muslims are terrorists.

 

[CptStern]

man you guys give him far too much credit. unzero is as subtle as an axe. he's as multilayered as a sheet of paper. His first statement is probably closer to what he wanted to say

 

[Krynn72]

He may have said that to make clear that he knows of the distinction, but he still didnt specify whether it should only be muslim terrorists that dont receive trial. I took it as him knowing that not all muslims are terrorists, but still all muslims shouldn't recieve trial because they might be terrorists.

I shall await further clarification.

 

[jet_porkins]

^ Then again, who cares what a dog wearing a santa hat thinks?

 

[Eejit]

Everyone. It's such a happy dog.

 

[Raziaar]

Indeed.

 

[Shakermaker]

stupid argument as I said before...I am a law abiding citizen,the popo have no reason what so ever to come to my house.
"what if" arguments are for preschoolers.

The scary part is that it might not be a 'what if?' scenario. Read Brave New World, 1984 or A Clockwork Orange, young padawan.

the only people that had to endure this of late are modern day Muslim terrorists,or have you seen something about KKK members getting water boarded on TV??

yeah,thought so.

stop trying to shift the context of the thread by nitpicking my argument about who else could be a terrorist.

LAMEST ATTEMPT EVER.

Who else could be a terrorist. Hmm, good question. I'll make a list for you:

• Asians (North Korea, China, the Philippines (zomg they're Asian and muslim!!1!))
• Latino Americans (Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba)
• Africans (Sudan, Somalia, Nigeria (again also muslims, but the big black Malcolm X kind, hide your womenfolk))
• Europeans (there are quite a lot of left wing wackos on this side of the big lake)
• Russians, always the Russians
• As others mentioned, homegrown terrorists

Omfg, it could be anyone!

 

[alpha incipiens]

You guyssss, I can't tell if unozero is trolling or not :< But hey I'll bite anyway.

sparta very weak arguments of course the people you mention are terrorist,the last white nationalist attack was in 94 irc....This thread is about water boarding,the only people that had to endure this of late are modern day Muslim terrorists,or have you seen something about KKK members getting water boarded on TV??

That's the essential element to this, isn't it? The news media and popular culture redefined the word "terrorist" after September 11th, 2001, and now the public holds the notion that only Middle Easterners are capable of holding some sort of ill intentions regarding America. Now, I'm not one to argue against the path of linguistics, or claim that words have some truer meaning beyond what we give them, but I think that the definition of "terrorist" has been artificially supplanted by this image the news has created.

So, even if it is the case that there haven't been many recent attacks from other terrorist groups, do you think that after 9/11 all those other groups just shrugged and said, "gee, you know those muslims sure are doing a good job of attacking the nation right now, why don't we just go grab a few drinks and stop hating for a bit?" Every extremist group has its own agenda, and just because news media of the past decade has been focusing on the Middle East does not mean that the others no longer exist.

Beyond that, other people have stated in the thread that torture is not an effective means to receive an accurate answer; people will admit to false guilt when tortured. I care about the security of our nation as much as I assume you do, but I think that locking away innocent people in the stead of actual terrorists does little to protect the country, and in fact severely harms its standing among other nations.

 

[unozero]

I'm not the average Joe,of course I know people of all creeds could be considered a terrorist depending on the context of "who committed what terrorist attack. against who" lol
but like you said yourself no KKK's ****s have flying airplanes in our buildings.The reason why the words terrorist and Muslim are connected is because these people that crashed in to WTC and the Pentagon did it in the name of the religion,no fear of death but instead embracing it that's what makes them so dangerous.
as I said before of course not all Muslims think this but a frightening large sadly does.This of course is due to the fact that many Muslims in today's world live beneath the poverty lane,meaning what do you have to loose kinda mentality.



by standing in other nations do you mean that Monkey won't type angry sentences on his keyboard anymore whilst his face turns cherry red??

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

I think he means that people wont fly planes into your buildings again...

 

[Sulkdodds]

unozero, please answer my perfectly lucid questions.

 

[unozero]

unozero, please answer my perfectly lucid questions.

That was a mistake on my part,the later of course.

 

[unozero]

The scary part is that it might not be a 'what if?' scenario. Read Brave New World, 1984 or A Clockwork Orange, young padawan.




Who else could be a terrorist. Hmm, good question. I'll make a list for you:

• Asians (North Korea, China, the Philippines (zomg they're Asian and muslim!!1!))
• Latino Americans (Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba)
• Africans (Sudan, Somalia, Nigeria (again also muslims, but the big black Malcolm X kind, hide your womenfolk))
• Europeans (there are quite a lot of left wing wackos on this side of the big lake)
• Russians, always the Russians
• As others mentioned, homegrown terrorists

Omfg, it could be anyone!

oh yeah it look like you didn't read my last few posts,if you did u wouldn't have that retarded list.

****



ok you want me to read fiction?
I've seen 1984,I also know there are people that are obsessed with with 1984 as if its already that bad.
Are you one of these people?




ok let me explain this one more time,the majority of you don't seem to know what this thread is about,too stupid to figure it out maybe.

Q: The Conflict the U.S is involved over last decade or so involves who?
A: Muslims (extremists if that makes you happier, not the group as whole of course)

Q:What have the U.S been doing to get info out of insurgents captured in A'stan and Irag?
A: among other things water boarding.

Q:The people that are caught what religion are they religion do they belong too and practice and what name are they blowing themselves to to bits?
A:They are Muslim and they claim to these things in the name of their God (Allah)

Now if your have a decent IQ and are mature enough without wishing other peoples family's to be tortured just for the **** of it because you disagree with them.
You would know exactly who I am referring when I say terrorist,you wouldn't to use these stupid games like a 10 year old like Shakermaker or Monkey is doing.

 

[Sulkdodds]

That was a mistake on my part,the later of course.

Beg pardon?

It is in fact you who's completely misunderstanding the argument, as well as completely misunderstanding the nature of other people's posts (nobody is "wishing" your family gets tortured - they're making a point about your logic. Grow up and engage with their points).

You are telling us that there doesn't need to be any kind of test to determine whether someone is a terrorist...as long as they are a terrorist. Hopefully you see the problem with this. It justifies a completely arbitrary standard whereby some "random Ingrid" (???) really is just as succeptable to being perpetually imprisoned.

Or, you are telling us that there is some other 'test' than even the most rudimentary of legal frameworks. In that case, what is it?

This moral 'justification' (hah) aside, there is also the question of whether torture is ever effective, which greatly affects the question of whether it is ethical. This is something you have not really engaged with, and you need to answer it because there actually seem to be no concrete cases of torture saving lives.

 

[gFrohman]

because there actually seem to be no concrete cases of torture saving lives.

Even if there are (which I honestly can't think of any, but then again I'm no historian), that doesn't mean that the ends justify the means.

 

[The Monkey]

by standing in other nations do you mean that Monkey won't type angry sentences on his keyboard anymore whilst his face turns cherry red??

The part about waterboarding your family is only the logical outcome of your reasoning. I wasn't actually suggesting that's what we should do. But you seems perfectly fine with torturing innocent people. How the hell would you know that they're terrorists if they haven't stood trial?

 

[unozero]

Im not fine with torturing innocent people at all.Lets say your this boy you were actually born in Canada but our family is extremist...so eventually you end up in Afghanistan you sitting in a house with older guys building IED's and filming it with a camcorder a few days later Americans try to get in the building....shit goes crazy you toss a grenade...one U.S soldier dies.



line him up no need for a trial.
If you are caught in the field with weapons and shit fighting US and other Coalition forces there is no need to waste the tax payers money.
I'm not saying simply grab the bearded Muslim at the corner market while he's trying to buy a pound of oranges.

 

[Stigmata]

Im not fine with torturing innocent people at all.Lets say your this boy you were actually born in Canada but our family is extremist...so eventually you end up in Afghanistan you sitting in a house with older guys building IED's and filming it with a camcorder a few days later Americans try to get in the building....shit goes crazy you toss a grenade...one U.S soldier dies.



line him up no need for a trial.
If you are caught in the field with weapons and shit fighting US and other Coalition forces there is no need to waste the tax payers money.
I'm not saying simply grab the bearded Muslim at the corner market while he's trying to buy a pound of oranges.

This is a product of either your frantic attempt to save face in this argument, or your complete inability to wrap up a point in one paragraph, but... what? You're not saying we grab any old Muslim, just the ones that are shooting at us and tossing grenades. But where does Canada come into this? Why am I a boy born into an extremist immigrant family who ends up back in Afghanistan? And how exactly does this work into your original argument?