Copyright and Intellectual Property.

I've not got enough beer in me to make a good answer right now, but I'll assume we're both right, to an extent.

-Angry Lawyer
 
DeVry Student said:
Didn't alot of open-source developers in Europe have problems with this issue (Knoppix Linux) in the last few years?
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I don't know of any past incidents, but right now in europe there's a giant campaign to stop the EU from passing a directive allowing software patents. I personally hope they can talk sense into these legislators. Software patents, as the USA has now, do nothing to protect anything but are rather used to force out competition.

As someone once said "If the inventor of the mouse trap had invented it today, he would not only be able to patent his design, but the idea of catching mice. Then the entire world would have to wait 20 years to suggest a better way."
 
Angry Lawyer said:
I've not got enough beer in me to make a good answer right now, but I'll assume we're both right, to an extent.

-Angry Lawyer
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As far as debating ethics and morals. There really is no right or wrong, just different opinions. :)
 
if you want to use someones property just ask them.

some guys have got the go ahead to make a full conversion Hexen for DOOM 3 from Raven - which is probaly easier than most since Raven are buddys with id Software and probaly like fans to use ids tech.

but the thing with just out right 'stealing' the property is different.

if those guys had just started making the Hexen TC without asking Raven thats pretty disrespectful.

I run a dodgy site and I would hate for someone to come rip-off my comics - not that they're good.

I also map and would hate for someone to just steal my map and put his name on it. Whats ethical about that.

If they asked me I would more often than not say yes aslong as they plugged my name in there somewhere. =/. I make no money out of my maps and comics and even if someone took them and made no money out of it i would still be hurt because I MADE it and they didn't take the time to ask me if they could give it out.


so basically, if you want to make a modification or skins of a company you should just ask them, unless its a currently running franchise I don't think they'd care - unless they're EA or Fox or someone evil....o_O.


about the mouse trap - people would just use poison :p
 
I was always curious about basing a MOD as a parody of existing property. I wonder if it falls under the "changing *JUST* enough of it to get away with it" Scenario. Like Spaceballs for instance. We all know it's a parody of star wars, but was it copyright infringement? (maybe a bad example, seems Lucas is way more forgiving of his property (with respect to MODDERS) than say, FOX is)
 
SLI_Fallen said:
I was always curious about basing a MOD as a parody of existing property. I wonder if it falls under the "changing *JUST* enough of it to get away with it" Scenario. Like Spaceballs for instance. We all know it's a parody of star wars, but was it copyright infringement? (maybe a bad example, seems Lucas is way more forgiving of his property (with respect to MODDERS) than say, FOX is)
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A Parody is allowed in most cases. I know a guy that worked on the Matrix Parody film, so long as the original creators know about it and you know your limits (Just calling it a parody isn't enough, it has to be still quite different to get away with it) There usually isn't a problem.

It's when people rip off work, call it a parody and wonder why they still aren't allowed to do it that causes all the trouble.
 
See, the difference is that most people want to recreate the atmosphere, gameplay or design of existing games. Not parody them.

See if I make a game that has Ghost Recon style gameplay with similar maps and overall experience, then why buy Ghost Recon games? The mod would take profits from the rightful owners. Not saying you would profit, but you would restrict the profitability of someone else's property. That's where the real problem lies for the companies. Most agree that a good natured parody can do a lot to promote a product. I wonder how many people have gotten introduced to Halo by RvB? I've shown most of my friends, non-gamers included. Probably helps them out a lot.

Besides, parody is protected, because it's funny. And I say. :borg:
 
You realize that you can make a mod about a movie and not breach copyright? Its all about money. A mod is freely distributed, no one makes money. Companys dont mind mods being made. All you have to do is ackknowledge that most of the ideas are not yours and give credit where its due.

If its a breach of copyright, then why are these mods not shutdown?

http://www.aotctc.com/
www.tmunplugged.net/ (bandwidth exceeded)
http://www.jeditimeline.com/A/news.php

Because the companys dont mind the mods, they dont make money ! If they were to make cd's of there mods and sell them on ebay then there would be a law suit, god i wish people would understand that.
 
Explain the, Aliens Quake. The Simpsons Mod. The Dragonball Z mod.

Sometimes, LucasArts will give tentative permission for mods to use the SW IP. It's not a guarantee.
 
There are two DBZ mods that are lookign amazing and still in production.

http://www.zeq2.com/
http://www.esforces.com/

Whats your point?

Modification is like fan art, expect the pencil is being replaced with modding tools, if i was to make a comic strip of DBZ and post it on the web for everyone to freely view(which there are hundereds of fan made ones on the net already)there would be no problem with it, because its fan art. Its no different with Mods. Again you just say that the characters used in your strip are the property of Akira Toriyama and not yours and your set.
 
Except you're completely wrong. I notice you ignored the Aliens and Simpsons examples I gave.

Acknowledging the copyright holder does not give you a green light.
 
evansmp said:
You realize that you can make a mod about a movie and not breach copyright? Its all about money. A mod is freely distributed, no one makes money. Companys dont mind mods being made. All you have to do is ackknowledge that most of the ideas are not yours and give credit where its due.

If its a breach of copyright, then why are these mods not shutdown?

http://www.aotctc.com/
www.tmunplugged.net/ (bandwidth exceeded)
http://www.jeditimeline.com/A/news.php

Because the companys dont mind the mods, they dont make money ! If they were to make cd's of there mods and sell them on ebay then there would be a law suit, god i wish people would understand that.
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I think you missed my post.

It's not about you making money. It's about the possibility of taking money away from the owners. In many cases, people don't want their creations in the hands of unknowns. Sometimes, there are future plans that your creation might conflict with. Sometimes, in a path that The LEGO Company has walked many times before, they just don't want their image or property affiliated with something.
 
The aliens Mod was using copyrighted material, if you use your own material from built scratch ie skins/models. granted the sounds would be the toughest challenge, they cant touch you. Because your not doing anything illegal.
 
evansmp said:
The aliens Mod was using copyrighted material, if you use your own material from built scratch ie skins/models. granted the sounds would be the toughest challenge, they cant touch you. Because your not doing anything illegal.
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Thats rubbish LOL.. Your still using the intellectual property of someone else. Doesn't matter if you remake everything, its still the same and your still breaking the law.

In your way of thinking, someone could go out, make everything from Star Wars themselves, refilm it, and it wouldn't be illegal.. Please tell me you don't _really_ believe that lol or do you? heh.
 
That's a remarkably high level of ignorance, and stupidity.

Someone needs to learn the concept of Intellectual Property.
 
It IS ok in some cases, you people think its wrong 100% of the time. You dont even give it a second thought. For example, the mod im making, based on Battle Royale, the whole media Movie/manga and novel were made in japan, now Japan are highly acceptive of Fan based media (Geez just look at the hentai business) and welcome it, i have emailed toei, and they gave the all clear. Its just stuck up American companies who dont like it because they think they will loose money. And if they do, it goes to show that 15 year old kids can do a better job than the actual company at making game(mod)
 
My god, you just completely disproved your own point.

You got permission.

Yet, according to you, you don't need permission. It's not illegal.

Make your mind up.
 
Oh and could somone tell me why MGM lets all these mods stay active when they gave Jowood the rights to a stargate game?

http://www.stargatemods.com

MGM have been really sensitve on the mod matter.( they've closed SG mods down before) So why have they gone soft all of a sudden? Eh? i'd love someone to give a reason.
 
Again, you're refuting your own points - mods get shut down.

It's really, really simple - if you don't get permission, then you run a very serious risk of getting shut down.

Everything you've said just goes to strengthen that point, not weaken it.
 
Well its a wonder that they've been open for months now. If mgm really cared they would close them down straight away.

You never gave me a reason to why they are still active.
 
evansmp said:
Well its a wonder that they've been open for months now. If mgm really cared they would close them down straight away.

You never gave me a reason to why they are still active.
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"Well Jonny did it, why can't I"

why do mod teams stealing IP and warezkiddies always use the same excuse..
 
Its not about stealing IP's Its about wanting to add something to an already amazing media, im a huge fan of Battle Royale, and would love to see it made into a game, but we all know that wont happen, the next logical step is making a mod, i wish you would get that into that narrow minded brain of yours.

Its not about stealing ideas and taking credit for others work, i want to make this mod to praise Kinji Fukasaki and Koushun Takami on there great work.

You do realize the reason people make modes of movies is too take something they love to the next level? i guess thats something you wouldnt understand.
 
Ha, narrow-minded. Fantastic.

It doesn't matter how altruistic your motives are, you do not have the right to use someone else's IP. It really is that simple, and yet you argue and argue and argue. It doesn't matter how much you disagree, it is a FACT.

And to answer your previous question, those mods haven't been shut down because.......who knows? No-one has said that mods using someone's IP will be shut down - there's just a very good chance. The whole damn point of this thread was to inform and educate the uninformed and uneducated that if you use someone else's IP for your mod without permission then there's a very great chance that you will be shut down.
 
evansmp said:
Its not about stealing IP's Its about wanting to add something to an already amazing media, im a huge fan of Battle Royale, and would love to see it made into a game, but we all know that wont happen, the next logical step is making a mod, i wish you would get that into that narrow minded brain of yours.

Its not about stealing ideas and taking credit for others work, i want to make this mod to praise Kinji Fukasaki and Koushun Takami on there great work.

You do realize the reason people make modes of movies is too take something they love to the next level? i guess thats something you wouldnt understand.
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hahaha, you just can't post without insulting someone. You should realise by now its done you no favors :)

-

If you want to see BR made into a game, then get others together who want the same and pressure them into making one properly. Just cause you want it doesn't give you any right in the world to go ahead and do it off your own back. If you REALLY want to do it, buy the rights to make one, you'll then have the law on your side and be able to do things right.

If you want to praise those guys, write to them and say well done, don't take what they made and do a half arsed game with it, you'll insult them more than anything, and we all know you'll be breaking the law too. Thats something YOU clearly don't understand.

If you want to make one, get the rights or permission to do it. stop lying through your teeth to try wriggle out of this. Your in the wrong, you know it, we know it. Just admit it to yourself and you'll feel better for it.

Go make something original that you have a chance of being recognised for. There's no way in the world you can make anything on the same level as BR anyway. You'll just get hundreds of _real_ BR fans take one look at it and laugh.
 
LOL. This is so funny.

If you want to praise those guys, write to them and say well done, don't take what they made and do a half arsed game with it
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Who are you to say that is will be "half-arsed"?
 
evansmp said:
LOL. This is so funny.



Who are you to say that is will be "half-arsed"?
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until proven otherwise, a mod or game is crappy by default.

Or, to put it another way, you're only as good as your last project.
 
evansmp said:
Im laughing at you, not with you.
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Of course you are.. From over here it looks more like you've finally realised you've been deluding yourself from the start and have run out of excuses.

But its ok, we don't hate you for being stupid.
 
It just goes to show, no ones takes forum newbies seriously. Respect is all about post count here, which is quite pitiful.

This is the only forum that acted this way. I suggest you take your head out your ass and realize there are lots of movie mods out there doing fine, no bother from the companies. It seems its just you lot who have a major grudge with this subject. Again pitiful.

Even if someone hads permission to make a mod of a movie, you dont give a crap, because to you its someone ripping an idea. You cant seem to get past that. Quite sad really. It could be something amazing and you shoot them down.

Well, take care.
 
evansmp said:
It just goes to show, no ones takes forum newbies seriously. Respect is all about post count here, which is quite pitiful.

This is the only forum that acted this way. I suggest you take your head out your ass and realize there are lots of movie mods out there doing fine, no bother from the companies. It seems its just you lot who have a major grudge with this subject. Again pitiful.

Even if someone hads permission to make a mod of a movie, you dont give a crap, because to you its someone ripping an idea. You cant seem to get past that. Quite sad really. It could be something amazing and you shoot them down.

Well, take care.
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Your the one with your head up your ass, otherwise you'd be able to understand what we're telling you.

If someone has permission, we don't have a problem with it because they _got_ permission. Instead of lying about it.

And you've yet to show us your amazing, all you've shown us is your bad at lying, arguing and holding a discussion without making it personal.

And its nothing to do with post counts here. It's to do with experience.
 
Way to miss the point there, kiddo.

a) post count is irrelevant. I've seen people with postcounts in the 1000s spouting shite, and they get treated the same way.

b) If a mod is using someone's IP and the IP owner is leaving them alone, then I'm very happy for them. However, the point that you have repeatedly and consistently failed to grasp is that you cannot rely on this situation

c) If someone gets permission to make a mod based on someone else's IP, then all power to them. However, as with all mods, until it actually exists, it doesn't exist.
 
Kiddo. Ha im probably older than you. (enter the fact that im a newbie here, you automatically assume your older and smarter than me)

But anyways.. good luck in killing other peoples dreams. Wont be seeing you around.

For the record, i contacted toei about my mod, and they said it was ok. i mentioned that in a previous post. and you continued to bash me, great maturity and professionalism there guys, good job.
 
I seriously doubt that you're older than me, not that it's relevant.

I love the way you ignore any of the many points that you're unable to refute, while also completely reversing your position in your argument.

but hey, if you're leaving....
 
evansmp said:
Kiddo. Ha im probably older than you. (enter the fact that im a newbie here, you automatically assume your older and smarter than me)

But anyways.. good luck in killing other peoples dreams. Wont be seeing you around.

For the record, i contacted toei about my mod, and they said it was ok. i mentioned that in a previous post. and you continued to bash me, great maturity and professionalism there guys, good job.
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"Hey I contacted Lucasfilm and they gave me all the rights to Star Wars, honest they did!"

see, just cause you said so doesn't make it true.. show us the proof.

Oh and I very much doubt your older.. Actually I hope your not, being a kiddo is probably the only thing saving you from real humiliation, if your older than us and still haven't got a clue about IP and copyright and act as childish as you have been doing, then I really pity you.
 
Why should i proove myself to you? you already made your intentions clear. Even if i did post the email, you would just make some accusation that its fake. So why bother, Im out of here.
 
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