G
GTOfire
Guest
hey folks, figured I'd make my first post here a big one. For some reason I enjoy putting my thoughts and opinions in writing, regardless if anyone takes the time to read it.
My intention here is to examine the popularity of all weapons and whether or not they are balanced among their own categories. I'm basing this on my own experience as a CS player (played from beta 5.5 through version 1.6 with a year of hardly playing in between somewhere), and that of a friend who has played as long as I have. I might of course be wrong, I haven't played 1.6 in a long time on-line, only on many LAN parties. Feel free to reply to correct mistakes I might make.
I'll stick to the Average Player's capabilities in this thread.
Right then, here goes. When I say balanced, I don't mean make a pistol as good as an SMG, but the pistols among themselves cost virtually the same, yet are very different in efficiency.
The order of popularity I mostly see for our trusty sidearms:
1. IMI Desert Eagle: it's very powerful, it's completely accurate when crouched, it's not expensive. what more do you need?
2. USP: it's pretty powerful, it retains accuracy while moving, it's free for CTs, and it's stealthy if you want it to be. what more do you need?
3. Glock: cheap, accurate, weak as hell, you need to be trained to kill with this thing. You never see a CT with this baby, because it ain't worth spending your money on. Regular T players can however manage to put a burst into a CTs head for a quick kill.
4. Dual Beretta's: weak as hell, slow reload, very inaccurate, expensive. The only things going for it are the fact that they're really cool and I can empty a full two clips within 3 seconds, because I can click like a maniac. (no scripts of course, that's cheating IMHO). Still, logically speaking, why would you want to buy these in a serious game?
5. FN Five-Seven: I don't know why no one ever chooses this gun, I do all the time. Still, I see more people with beretta's then this one. I suppose it's weak, but pretty accurate and with a large clip of 20 rounds so you can afford to miss and not be forced to reload.
6. Sig Sauer P228: ever see anyone use one of these? Me neither. It's not particularly powerful, it's not very accurate while moving, why would you want to buy this over a deagle or even a glock, aside from the fact that buying it and two extra clips costs exactly your starting 800. Hey, some people like getting their money's worth.
Rebalancing:
In my opinion, most pistols are too weak to have any impact in gameplay aside from the first 2 rounds. The average player with a pistol will always lose out to the average player with a rifle or SMG, unless they get lucky. The exceptions are the Desert Eagle, which is powerful enough to kill players with automatic weapons. And the USP, which is quick and accurate enough for a few successive headshots in the hands of a player capable of quick aiming.
The result of this, is that after 2 rounds, these are the only two sidearms worth spending your money on. Other pistols will simply get you killed.
Therefor I would suggest the power of the 4 never-used pistols be slightly increased, so that their own advantages aren't so far outclassed by their disadvantages.
Then we proceed to the shotguns:
Benelli M3 Super 90: great weapon for old-skool people. Very powerful, accuracy not really relevant, and it allows you to fire while you reload your shells. It is pretty slow firing against rifles and SMGs though, and especially against it's brother, the XM1013. If you're holding an M3, you can be a killing machine at close range, but you can simply never ever afford to miss.
XM1013: me and my friends (and prolly many others) call this one 'the n00b stick'. It's not as powerful as the M3, but fires so quick that hardly matters. Favoured often by new players who think they're pro players because they killed 3 people with this one at point blank. Not as useful at longer ranges as the M3 though.
Rebalance: Pit an M3 against an XM1013 and the M3 guy needs to get the first shot in for the kill right away or he's toast. The XM can afford to miss a round, the M3 can't. However, suggestions for rebalancing are difficult because of the many differences. A slight increase in speed for the M3 might put it back on the map of weapons used.
On to the SMGs:
1. Mp5, accurate, quick, weapon of choice for rushing players who can aim very fast and go for the headshots. Cheap alternative to a rifle for players who just died.
2-3: TMP and Mac10: essentially the same weapon but for the silencer. Inaccurate, weak, but somehow incredibly magnetic towards the head for people like me, regardless of using short bursts or going full-auto, headshots guaranteed.
4. P90: almost as popular, sometimes more, then 2 and 3. Mostly with new players because of it's 50-round clip and reasonable accuracy. I however hardly ever used it, can't say much about it.
5. UMP: No one uses it except new players who wonder if it's like an improved version of the MP5. It's slow, not very accurate and that alone makes it's slightly more powerful damage irrelevant. Not to mention the smaller clip.
Rebalance: not much to rebalance in this case. 4 out of 5 are used not equally, but all pretty popular. Diversity is plentiful already.
The most used weapons, rifles:
1. Colt m4a1: very accurate, powerful, silent, quick, there's simply no bad side to this weapon if you're smart enough to know it sticks out further then your average weapon. Don't try to hide behind a small crate and pretend your silencer isn't there
2. Ak-47: dirt-cheap, very powerful, very accurate in single shots and bursts. One can see why everyone uses it. The silencer and accuracy while going full-auto makes Ts pick up Colts when they get a chance though.
3-4. Steyr Aug and Sig 552 Commando: accurate, zoomable, powerful, pretty much both the same gun and perfect for longer range assaults.
5. IMI Defender: an AK with accuracy traded for even more power. Difficult to use effectively, therefor never used.
6. FAMAS: weak, not too accurate, burst-fire takes has forever as it's refire rate, and the small clip makes it even worse. It sort of feels more like an SMG than a rifle.
Rebalancing: not applicable really. Everyone uses these weapons already. the zoomed weapons are lesser used because they're more expensive and the ranges usually aren't that long. The defender is there for people who desire still more power, and rebalancing it would remove that option. the FAMAS is a laughable excuse for a rifle, and simply has no advantages to it whatsoever. Rebalancing it would require turning it's stats and specs into a colt, and we already have one of those.
Sniper rifles:
1. AWP: extreme power, total accuracy, double zoom. All other aspects of this gun are irrelevant to a sniper except for sound, which none of the CS sniper rifles can muffle.
2. Scout: the lesser power is made up for by the maneuverability. Requires more aim because it takes a headshot for a one-shot-one-kill. If you put the first slug into their chest, they have a chance to run around a corner and tell all their friends where the shot came from.
3-4: G3/SG-1 and Sig 550-P1 Sniper: I use these weapons effectively ALL the time, and seem to be the only one. They are quick-firing enough to make up for the lack of power (compared to the other snipers), doing equal damage over time. The refire rate makes them great for multiple targets. Aim at one, go full auto, switch your aim when the first enemy goes down. All shots missed usually end up in another enemy next to the first guy.
The thing that makes them unpopular isn't the expense, it's what's best described as random accuracy. Crouch, zoom twice, fire. One time you'll be pin-point accurate for 10 shots straight. Another time, the first shot you fire will be 2m from where you were pointing your crosshairs at the time. This makes them unreliable and gets people killed.
Rebalance: the semi-automatic rifles deserve a better place in this world. I've learned to deal with their accuracy problems, but it's hard to do. Make them more accurate, at least more reliably accurate instead of random. I'd be happy to trade in a little power for some accuracy. The Scout vs. AWP fight is one that can't be won by either side. It's easier to use the AWP, because one shot that hits will always kill except for a foot-shot. A shot with a Scout will only kill when it's a headshot. The lack of power is made up for generously by maneuverability and refire rate, but these aspects are only useful to a player that uses them in their style of play. They're balanced, it's just that less people are making use of the Scout's advantages.
Machine guns:
Realisticly, machine guns should be used to pin people down from a static firing position. But that style of play isn't really doable in CS, so I say leave it be as the joker of guns
The Shield:
For sake of balance, allow rifles to penetrate the shield (with reduced damage and no penalty in walking speed or it's useless). Removing it alltogether would be a waste, but it could be needed to preserve the CS gameplay that we knew and loved.
Smoke Grenade: virtually useless. It allows you to go through an area without the enemy seeing you, but all it does is tell the enemy exactly which area you'll be running through in about 2 seconds, allowing them to hud_center_id your ass and shoot you.
Rebalance: make it a gas grenade perhaps. Or disable the showing of ID tags when aiming at a player through smoke, so that they can be used for what they're meant to do, like traverse a position that is covered by an enemy sniper.
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Alright folks, I'm done typing. Why I wrote all this down? beats me, but I wasn't bored for half an hour, so it's good news in my book. I hope someone reads it and leaves their comments, and I hope you'll consider my rebalance suggestions relevant for CS: Source. Thanks.
My intention here is to examine the popularity of all weapons and whether or not they are balanced among their own categories. I'm basing this on my own experience as a CS player (played from beta 5.5 through version 1.6 with a year of hardly playing in between somewhere), and that of a friend who has played as long as I have. I might of course be wrong, I haven't played 1.6 in a long time on-line, only on many LAN parties. Feel free to reply to correct mistakes I might make.
I'll stick to the Average Player's capabilities in this thread.
Right then, here goes. When I say balanced, I don't mean make a pistol as good as an SMG, but the pistols among themselves cost virtually the same, yet are very different in efficiency.
The order of popularity I mostly see for our trusty sidearms:
1. IMI Desert Eagle: it's very powerful, it's completely accurate when crouched, it's not expensive. what more do you need?
2. USP: it's pretty powerful, it retains accuracy while moving, it's free for CTs, and it's stealthy if you want it to be. what more do you need?
3. Glock: cheap, accurate, weak as hell, you need to be trained to kill with this thing. You never see a CT with this baby, because it ain't worth spending your money on. Regular T players can however manage to put a burst into a CTs head for a quick kill.
4. Dual Beretta's: weak as hell, slow reload, very inaccurate, expensive. The only things going for it are the fact that they're really cool and I can empty a full two clips within 3 seconds, because I can click like a maniac. (no scripts of course, that's cheating IMHO). Still, logically speaking, why would you want to buy these in a serious game?
5. FN Five-Seven: I don't know why no one ever chooses this gun, I do all the time. Still, I see more people with beretta's then this one. I suppose it's weak, but pretty accurate and with a large clip of 20 rounds so you can afford to miss and not be forced to reload.
6. Sig Sauer P228: ever see anyone use one of these? Me neither. It's not particularly powerful, it's not very accurate while moving, why would you want to buy this over a deagle or even a glock, aside from the fact that buying it and two extra clips costs exactly your starting 800. Hey, some people like getting their money's worth.
Rebalancing:
In my opinion, most pistols are too weak to have any impact in gameplay aside from the first 2 rounds. The average player with a pistol will always lose out to the average player with a rifle or SMG, unless they get lucky. The exceptions are the Desert Eagle, which is powerful enough to kill players with automatic weapons. And the USP, which is quick and accurate enough for a few successive headshots in the hands of a player capable of quick aiming.
The result of this, is that after 2 rounds, these are the only two sidearms worth spending your money on. Other pistols will simply get you killed.
Therefor I would suggest the power of the 4 never-used pistols be slightly increased, so that their own advantages aren't so far outclassed by their disadvantages.
Then we proceed to the shotguns:
Benelli M3 Super 90: great weapon for old-skool people. Very powerful, accuracy not really relevant, and it allows you to fire while you reload your shells. It is pretty slow firing against rifles and SMGs though, and especially against it's brother, the XM1013. If you're holding an M3, you can be a killing machine at close range, but you can simply never ever afford to miss.
XM1013: me and my friends (and prolly many others) call this one 'the n00b stick'. It's not as powerful as the M3, but fires so quick that hardly matters. Favoured often by new players who think they're pro players because they killed 3 people with this one at point blank. Not as useful at longer ranges as the M3 though.
Rebalance: Pit an M3 against an XM1013 and the M3 guy needs to get the first shot in for the kill right away or he's toast. The XM can afford to miss a round, the M3 can't. However, suggestions for rebalancing are difficult because of the many differences. A slight increase in speed for the M3 might put it back on the map of weapons used.
On to the SMGs:
1. Mp5, accurate, quick, weapon of choice for rushing players who can aim very fast and go for the headshots. Cheap alternative to a rifle for players who just died.
2-3: TMP and Mac10: essentially the same weapon but for the silencer. Inaccurate, weak, but somehow incredibly magnetic towards the head for people like me, regardless of using short bursts or going full-auto, headshots guaranteed.
4. P90: almost as popular, sometimes more, then 2 and 3. Mostly with new players because of it's 50-round clip and reasonable accuracy. I however hardly ever used it, can't say much about it.
5. UMP: No one uses it except new players who wonder if it's like an improved version of the MP5. It's slow, not very accurate and that alone makes it's slightly more powerful damage irrelevant. Not to mention the smaller clip.
Rebalance: not much to rebalance in this case. 4 out of 5 are used not equally, but all pretty popular. Diversity is plentiful already.
The most used weapons, rifles:
1. Colt m4a1: very accurate, powerful, silent, quick, there's simply no bad side to this weapon if you're smart enough to know it sticks out further then your average weapon. Don't try to hide behind a small crate and pretend your silencer isn't there
2. Ak-47: dirt-cheap, very powerful, very accurate in single shots and bursts. One can see why everyone uses it. The silencer and accuracy while going full-auto makes Ts pick up Colts when they get a chance though.
3-4. Steyr Aug and Sig 552 Commando: accurate, zoomable, powerful, pretty much both the same gun and perfect for longer range assaults.
5. IMI Defender: an AK with accuracy traded for even more power. Difficult to use effectively, therefor never used.
6. FAMAS: weak, not too accurate, burst-fire takes has forever as it's refire rate, and the small clip makes it even worse. It sort of feels more like an SMG than a rifle.
Rebalancing: not applicable really. Everyone uses these weapons already. the zoomed weapons are lesser used because they're more expensive and the ranges usually aren't that long. The defender is there for people who desire still more power, and rebalancing it would remove that option. the FAMAS is a laughable excuse for a rifle, and simply has no advantages to it whatsoever. Rebalancing it would require turning it's stats and specs into a colt, and we already have one of those.
Sniper rifles:
1. AWP: extreme power, total accuracy, double zoom. All other aspects of this gun are irrelevant to a sniper except for sound, which none of the CS sniper rifles can muffle.
2. Scout: the lesser power is made up for by the maneuverability. Requires more aim because it takes a headshot for a one-shot-one-kill. If you put the first slug into their chest, they have a chance to run around a corner and tell all their friends where the shot came from.
3-4: G3/SG-1 and Sig 550-P1 Sniper: I use these weapons effectively ALL the time, and seem to be the only one. They are quick-firing enough to make up for the lack of power (compared to the other snipers), doing equal damage over time. The refire rate makes them great for multiple targets. Aim at one, go full auto, switch your aim when the first enemy goes down. All shots missed usually end up in another enemy next to the first guy.
The thing that makes them unpopular isn't the expense, it's what's best described as random accuracy. Crouch, zoom twice, fire. One time you'll be pin-point accurate for 10 shots straight. Another time, the first shot you fire will be 2m from where you were pointing your crosshairs at the time. This makes them unreliable and gets people killed.
Rebalance: the semi-automatic rifles deserve a better place in this world. I've learned to deal with their accuracy problems, but it's hard to do. Make them more accurate, at least more reliably accurate instead of random. I'd be happy to trade in a little power for some accuracy. The Scout vs. AWP fight is one that can't be won by either side. It's easier to use the AWP, because one shot that hits will always kill except for a foot-shot. A shot with a Scout will only kill when it's a headshot. The lack of power is made up for generously by maneuverability and refire rate, but these aspects are only useful to a player that uses them in their style of play. They're balanced, it's just that less people are making use of the Scout's advantages.
Machine guns:
Realisticly, machine guns should be used to pin people down from a static firing position. But that style of play isn't really doable in CS, so I say leave it be as the joker of guns
The Shield:
For sake of balance, allow rifles to penetrate the shield (with reduced damage and no penalty in walking speed or it's useless). Removing it alltogether would be a waste, but it could be needed to preserve the CS gameplay that we knew and loved.
Smoke Grenade: virtually useless. It allows you to go through an area without the enemy seeing you, but all it does is tell the enemy exactly which area you'll be running through in about 2 seconds, allowing them to hud_center_id your ass and shoot you.
Rebalance: make it a gas grenade perhaps. Or disable the showing of ID tags when aiming at a player through smoke, so that they can be used for what they're meant to do, like traverse a position that is covered by an enemy sniper.
----
Alright folks, I'm done typing. Why I wrote all this down? beats me, but I wasn't bored for half an hour, so it's good news in my book. I hope someone reads it and leaves their comments, and I hope you'll consider my rebalance suggestions relevant for CS: Source. Thanks.
