CS:S & CPL, Angel Munoz speaks

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eSLive: Most of the community didn't welcome Counter-Strike : Source as well as VALVe excepted, will lots of disappointed gamers and fans. The game itself seems despite its graphics and physics, a lot less dynamic than its ancestor Counter-Strike 1.6... Will the CPL introduced Counter-Strike : Source into one of its tournaments at some point? If not, what game could possibly replace Counter-Strike : Source?

Munoz: We have a very talented team of people that are directing the future of Counter-Strike at CPL events. These people are Justin Blanchard, Tom Gardner, Andrew Waterman and Frank Nuccio, and these decisions are ultimately up to them with feedback from the community. I can say that we have a few concerns and I will be chatting with Valve about them to see if we can explore a better implementation of the game at our events.

eSLive
 
Heh, Munoz & co definitely have a few concerns about CS:S, that's for sure. As it is right now, CS:S is far worse than regular CS 1.6, for match play that is. There are several things that really need to be fixed and the good maps such as nuke, train and inferno need to be redone as soon as possible, as the current map selection has only one excellent map (d2) and a few "OK" maps (cbble, aztec, although I myself think they're both quite awful). It's definitely not going to be played at the Winter event, but maybe if Valve improves the game as much as I believe they will, it could be playable at CPL Summer.
 
Bare in mind that we're playing the first version of CS:S right now... The first versions of Counter-Strike would never have been considered by CPL. At what version did they start using Counter-Strike? I bet it was quite a way into the development cycle.

Considering Counter-Strike: Source as we know it has only been in development since January - we've got a lot to look forward to and the same applies to e-sports participants too.
 
Chris_D said:
Bare in mind that we're playing the first version of CS:S right now... The first versions of Counter-Strike would never have been considered by CPL. At what version did they start using Counter-Strike? I bet it was quite a way into the development cycle.

Considering Counter-Strike: Source as we know it has only been in development since January - we've got a lot to look forward to and the same applies to e-sports participants too.
Click to expand...
Well, I'm not sure it quite applies in the same way. There's a massive difference between starting a mod from scratch and converting a hugely polished version of that same mod to a new engine.
 
Axyon has a point.

I don't think CS:Source offers anything new to competitive gaming. If you want to have a Counter-Strike Tournament, the clear choice is 1.6, because everything works, everything is fluid, and it feels like Counter-Strike. Counter-Strike:Source may still be CS, but it doesn't hold the same flexability that 1.6 did. In 1.6 everything is fluid, if you turn around, and fire, you turn around and fire. In CS:S If you turn around and fire, you notice a slight lag in response during the turn, and headshots aren't as obvious (unless you look at the top right display) as they were before.

I think CS:S needs to really try to hold on to the smooth arcade experience that 1.6 had. If it can't do that I don't think many people will actually accept it as true CS.
 
told u ! cs:s has zero chance of being pld at cpl....it sucks ass.

p.s doofus ur the first person ive seen talk some sense about cs:s. wp :)
 
Where does it say theres no chance that it will ever be played at CPL?
 
Lep said:
Where does it say theres no chance that it will ever be played at CPL?
Click to expand...

Don't mind ukfluke he thinks he can see the future. I can do it too, here watch:

It will be played in CPL and it will replace 1.6.
 
im telling u if they dont make some huge changes to cs:s it will never be pld competetivly. And i mean HUGE changes "!
 
In your opinion what would they have to change so it would meet CPL standards? make a short list or just the five main issues.
 
Chris_D said:
Bare in mind that we're playing the first version of CS:S right now... The first versions of Counter-Strike would never have been considered by CPL. At what version did they start using Counter-Strike? I bet it was quite a way into the development cycle.

Considering Counter-Strike: Source as we know it has only been in development since January - we've got a lot to look forward to and the same applies to e-sports participants too.
Click to expand...

An excellent point.
 
why the hell do i need 5 issues. The main thing about a competetive game is its bullet registration/nectcode. cs:s is awfull on both

-Hitboxes lag behind player models BADLY

- Hitboxes don't register hits properly

- Flash bangs flash you through walls sometimes

- Shotgun does the most random damage on the planet, you can shoot someone from really far and kill them with a headshot, other times the shotgun does 30 damage when you shotgun someone standing deadstill in the chest 2 feet away. (related to the crappy hitboxes?)

-Sounds sometimes don't play so you can't hear enemies near you or gun fire

- the sound in general is ****e up , sometimes its impossible to tell where the enemy is,, is it mono sound or someshit? so bad
 
oh i forgot

- models animations are worse than 1.6! how can a next gen game go backwards so much?! trully awfull
 
The model animations thing is a matter of opinion, nothing more. Personally, I think they're better.
 
what ? they way the animations DO NOT match the movement in relation to the ground? YEAH THATS FKN SO MUCH BETTER!! how long u pld cs methias? dont lie now!
 
Has anyone else noticed how competitive communities reject change like a bone marrow transplant? The same thing is going on with Call of Duty: United Offensive right now. CoD:UO is an excellent game, yet for some reason the pro and tournament community has decided to completely ignore its merits and just complain about the things that it changes and the inclusion of vehicles (which, for some reason, is a bad thing). Oh, the horror of having to go through a 1 or 2 week period of adjustment in order to start owning newbs again. Change happens whether or not you want it to. One of life's secrets is to learn to just roll with it.
 
methias i would be very happy with cs:s if it was any good. The hitboxes & netcode are a complete joke. It feels so loose. At least HL:CS is solid and feels solid !! cs:s is nowhwere near competition standard.
 
So maybe that's why I can't hit people... I should start shooting behind them! :rolling:
 
Oh and whoever said source uses hitboxes, it doesn't :eek:
 
zex. source does use hitboxes same as 1.6. doom3 uses that per pixel detection or w/e its called.
 
The reason that Half-Life: Counter-Strike has such solid netcode is because it's the, what, thousandth(?) iteration of a netcode that's been under continuous development for many years. The network architecture of CS:S is completely different and new, not to mention having to deal with things like hundreds of physically simulated objects that work and interact with players in a very complicated way. Give CS:S some time. Considering that it's a first release of a completely new product (the only thing that's not new is the concept behind the game and artwork) I'd say it's doing pretty damn good. Like, better than 95% of games released today.
 
well methias u would have thought valve would have learnt something then ?? eh?? i mean how can u go backwards so much?? its trully unbeleivable.

i was expecting better hitboxes/netcode not ALOT worse. Oh btw the netcode is not completely new valve said they were taking the original and modifying it. :p

but i agree about the physics i thinkl theyre screwing things up. they should remove server side physics immediatley . who needs bouncy barrels anyway?
 
ukfluke said:
why the hell do i need 5 issues. The main thing about a competetive game is its bullet registration/nectcode. cs:s is awfull on both

-Hitboxes lag behind player models BADLY

- Hitboxes don't register hits properly

- Flash bangs flash you through walls sometimes

- Shotgun does the most random damage on the planet, you can shoot someone from really far and kill them with a headshot, other times the shotgun does 30 damage when you shotgun someone standing deadstill in the chest 2 feet away. (related to the crappy hitboxes?)

-Sounds sometimes don't play so you can't hear enemies near you or gun fire

- the sound in general is ****e up , sometimes its impossible to tell where the enemy is,, is it mono sound or someshit? so bad
Click to expand...

Hell even in 1.6 hitboxes aren't perfect, but that didn't stop the CPL from using it. Point it, they can fix the hitboxes just like they did with 1.6.

As for the sound problems you mentioned, I haven't encoutered any so I wouldn't know what to say. And shotgun damage is random it pisses me off so much, because I mainly use the M3 except on aztec.

But they can patch all of this crap and sort it out.
 
its going to have to be a huge mother****ing patch. the game is awfull heres my review summary & score

An Abomination of the greatest multiplayer fps in history, the game has been taken backwards- dont waste hdd space on it.

0%
 
Well, I've been a coder for many years. And if there's one thing I've learned it's that things never turn out the way you expect them to. Especially with HUGE projects like game engines. It's just too difficult to keep track of all the different variables involved in what could be causing a problem. Personally, I think it's better to start fresh than to attempt to port old code over to work in new situations. It's much easier to keep track of what's causing problems when you start from a clean slate. If Valve did try and bring over the old netcode from Half-Life into a situation where it was going to be expected to be handling new things like true-to-life physics, then I'd say that's the source of the problems that you're frustrated with, though I've not witnessed any of these illeged problems first-hand.
 
ukfluke said:
why the hell do i need 5 issues. The main thing about a competetive game is its bullet registration/nectcode. cs:s is awfull on both

-Hitboxes lag behind player models BADLY

- Hitboxes don't register hits properly

- Flash bangs flash you through walls sometimes

- Shotgun does the most random damage on the planet, you can shoot someone from really far and kill them with a headshot, other times the shotgun does 30 damage when you shotgun someone standing deadstill in the chest 2 feet away. (related to the crappy hitboxes?)

-Sounds sometimes don't play so you can't hear enemies near you or gun fire

- the sound in general is ****e up , sometimes its impossible to tell where the enemy is,, is it mono sound or someshit? so bad
Click to expand...
Hey, all of that happens in 1.6 too. It's called being a computer game. Live with it. :dozey:

And about the "laggy hitboxes" those happen in almost every multiplayer FPS so get used to it.
 
quit crying already ufluke, your pathetic, and all your whining is making me sick. great you don't like the game, don't play it.
 
Are the differences really that massive? I figured the games would be almost identical aside from the graphics/physics and some other minor differences. I'm dl'ing CZ now so that i can try to make an impartial judgement myself, because tbh i cant see an awefull lot wrong with CS:S so far.

The only thing that i have noticed is that the hit detection is off sometimes like other people have mentioned, particularly with respect to being hit through walls. I understand that you are meant to be able to shoot through wood etc.. but many times ive been killed after ducking in and out from behind a brick wall. And no i'm not just mis-judging, i am clearly being hit after i am behind cover again. It is annoying but i can live with it.
 
be patient, FFS! the original release of CS:Source "Final",was the internal test version from july 9th according to the update news..
then yesterday there were some changes to the update news...go and look through the list of changes..see if that will convince you that the problems are being looked into and worked on..if not,well then I guess there is no pleasing you..

this game already blows CS1.6 away in some respects..soon it will blast it out of the water in ALL ways
 
ukfluke said:
0%

try again plz valve.
Click to expand...
Stop trolling, I'm warning you. Add productively to this thread, or it may be your last.
 
I'm sure the CS team is already working hard on the next patch, it's not like they're sitting on their collective asses twiddling their thumbs and shouting leet abuse to each other. No, that's definitely not what's going on: they're aware of most if not all bugs and issues the community has and they're going to "fix" it. I mean CS didn't get to where it is now had they not listened to community feedback, just today I saw our Lord and Savior Cliffe post here: he acknowledged the fact that many people were complaining about texture "shininess".
 
Good HL1 netcode? News to me, CS:S has better all round registeration of shots EASY. I admit though, i've seen some weird hs's (like i have in 1.6)

I think its more of a point that the CPL people are quite stubborn and refuse change. "omg i can't own n00bs anymore i refuse to move on"

It's outdated guys, come along now and move on :)

It find it amusing most of the points go back to a bad PC or server.

Sigh...
 
I don't see much of a difference between the two. I even find the headshots to be more accurate in certain situations... like when the enemy is crouched and moving (I could carefully snipe them right in the middle of the head and still miss in CS... but that doesn't happen to me in CS:S). CS had plenty of hitbox bugs.

Also, the Source engine is capable of using shapes other than rectangular prisms for hit detection . It allows the hit detection to conform more closely to the model's shape. That could be part of the "problem" you're having (if they are actually used in CS:S).
 
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