CS:S & CPL, Angel Munoz speaks
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Geronimous
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ukfluke said:well methias u would have thought valve would have learnt something then ?? eh?? i mean how can u go backwards so much?? its trully unbeleivable.
i was expecting better hitboxes/netcode not ALOT worse. Oh btw the netcode is not completely new valve said they were taking the original and modifying it.
but i agree about the physics i thinkl theyre screwing things up. they should remove server side physics immediatley . who needs bouncy barrels anyway?
I REALLY do not see Source as a HUGE leap backward as you seem to look at it. In my opinion, you bitch too much. The fact that there are still no news maps and still only one playermodel per team obviously shows we can expect more updates in the future. About the netcode, I really do not see setbacks. I play just fine with Source. And all the small things you are complaining about are so obsolete, you could start weighing them against all the small stupid things that are in 1.6 (like shooting through walls or crazy headshots). I am also ver annoyed about how you are forcing YOUR OPINION onto the whole community. I don't give a rats ass how YOU feel about it. Let the pro's with CPL decide if it is any good for CPL.
My tip: let Source settle in for now. Wait with complaining and moaning about little things. Let it be around for a year, and THEN you can moan. Just relax.... it is just a game... get out more!
mortiz
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The first CS;Source update in slated for sometime next week.
Also think about it, they've had to develop (almost) a new netcode in order to work with CS:Source, for instance one that take's physics into account. The good thing about it is that VALVe can fix these thing's quick and efficiently and get the update out to people's computers, when VALVe release an update we don't have to worry about long queue's at fileplanet.
Also think about it, they've had to develop (almost) a new netcode in order to work with CS:Source, for instance one that take's physics into account. The good thing about it is that VALVe can fix these thing's quick and efficiently and get the update out to people's computers, when VALVe release an update we don't have to worry about long queue's at fileplanet.
mortiz
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ukfluke said:
Correct...
In my opinion people post their opinion's too much on these forums because firstly no one really cares about your opinion, and secondly it doesn't help or change anything, it only serves to piss someone off and/or make you look an idiot. I just wish people would keep their opinion's to themselves!
There are no stupid opinions! Just stupid people.
OK, there, my last (hopefully) opinion on a subject!
B
BakedGoods
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This is disgusting. It's been known that the CS crowd is ignorant to change but this is absolutely brutal. It is almost impossible to make a new reincarnation of CS and have it play exactly like the original! Deal with it. Yes there are some problems, but they will be fixed. Just because you've owned at CS for the last decade, then run Source and find you can't get your headshots, and you are constantly dying doesn't mean CS:S sucks, it means YOU need to get with it.
I considered myself extremely good at CS1.6. When I loaded up CS:S I sucked. Simple as that. Although unlike a majority of CS players I was open to a new iteration of CS, so I kept playing. Now I'm not as good as I used to be, but I am getting better, and having a lot of fun doing it!
In all seriousness, CS:S is the future. Deal with it's flaws like we all did with the original before 1.6, because in the end we'll be rewarded with a CS for the next generation.
No one could have said it better:
I considered myself extremely good at CS1.6. When I loaded up CS:S I sucked. Simple as that. Although unlike a majority of CS players I was open to a new iteration of CS, so I kept playing. Now I'm not as good as I used to be, but I am getting better, and having a lot of fun doing it!
In all seriousness, CS:S is the future. Deal with it's flaws like we all did with the original before 1.6, because in the end we'll be rewarded with a CS for the next generation.
No one could have said it better:
"Play CS:S and enjoy it."
~ House
~ House
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CB | Para said:You got that right, I just wanted to share the news. I love the new CS and I've been a longtime fan
Me too, and ukfluke made a constructive opinion by writing his 5 main issues to improve.
I play well on cs:s (a ration of 3 most of the time), and was part of a famous gaming clan (#Factory, i think you should know them Para :upstare: ), and i share my opinion with ukfluke : netcode has made a back step comparativly to 1.6 :x
mortiz
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-Yo- said:
ukfluke said:told u ! cs:s has zero chance of being pld at cpl....it sucks ass.
p.s doofus ur the first person ive seen talk some sense about cs:s. wp
Constructive?
ukfluke said:
Constructive?
Let's face it, most of ukfluke's contribution to this thread is troll dung! He made one post, that perhaps verged on constructive (only mildly like when pressed), but does that make him a constructive poster?
Being constructive is not holding an opinion either way, it's seeing the problems, identifying them and perhaps even offering solutions!
Para "pld" in game means "played" .abreviation of "well played" also seen as "wp"
Edge really? http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=learnt
Edge really? http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=learnt
perrkele
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Ok, here are my two cents on the current situation (or rather my two grand, since this is going to be a long one!).
There have been several good arguments from both sides. I agree with many of you that most of the problems are quite minor and that CS:S is not going to stay the way it is now, Valve is bound to update it (A LOT), just like they did with the original CS and, more recently, CS:CZ. But also, I agree with ukfluke in a way (although he is being a complete and total ass about it) in that right now the game still has a few bigger (which still might seem minor to some) issues and that the game isn't really ready for competitive match play yet. I will state some of the reasons later in this post.
Now, I am probably what someone like Wesisapie might refer to as "an ultra serious clan loser". :dork: While I am not that serious (the whole "pro-gaming" thing would never ever be for me, even if I some day had the skill), I still enjoy the tactical aspect of a 5on5 CS match very much, more so than probably 95% of the whole community. In my books (before flaming me, remember this really is only my opinion!) nothing online gaming has to offer can beat a 5on5 match of CS with my friends against a high-skilled team. We have been playing since the first betas, and here in Finland we play on pretty much the highest possible level in CS without actually "going pro" as they say. I like to think, at least, that when it comes to CS, I know what I am talking about. That doesn't mean, however, that I couldn't be wrong with some of the arguments I'm going to present, and I encourage everyone to prove me wrong and offer solutions and feedback as long as you do it in a civilized manner.
Now onto the bigger faults in current CS:S that I have noticed during my admittedly limited playing time. These are a few things that I came up with off the top of my head, and this is by no means any sort of "definitive" list.
1. Maps. This is an area where CS:S definitely needs improvement. While most of the maps in CS:S right now provide loads and loads of fun on publics, they are not suited for match play. Of the CS 1.6 maps, more or less only de_dust2, de_train, de_nuke and de_inferno (and to some extent de_cbble, de_aztec and de_cpl_mill) are played frequently in leagues and ladders. They have the best balance and best layout for matches. CS:S has only one of the main four, de_dust2. The improvements made on the other maps in CS:S aren't enough to bring them to a good enough level for matches. However, I am sure that Valve understands the need for the levels I mentioned and is already hard at work bringing them to life on the Source engine. Also, a couple of new (good!) maps would not hurt either!
(2.) Hitboxes. Now, I am not even completely sure there is a problem with the hitboxes, since I haven't been able to play enough yet due to university taking a great deal of my time. But I do know that while CS has a long history of hitbox bugs, most of them have been fixed. As of now, I am only aware of two hitbox bugs in current CS 1.6: 1) shooting a crouched defusing CT from a certain angle, 2) getting a HS from behind a player is often impossible, seems as if the back hitbox is in the way). So I would say that Valve has done a fairly decent job, and I would imagine that if there in fact are hitbox bugs in CS:S, they too will be fixed in the coming months. But still, since so many people are complaining about bad hitboxes, there has to be something behind it, right? One things that could explain it is the netcode, or rather people's unawareness as to how it works. Let me just say this: playing on the default network settings is not very accurate, at least not if you have a decent Internet connection. Understanding what commands such as rate, cl_updaterate, cl_cmdrate and ex_interp (cl_interp in CS:S?) do and adjusting them to their proper values will greatly enhance the accuracy of the game, that is, if these commands actually fuction as they do in CS 1.6 and I have no reason to believe otherwise. I would imagine that if there in fact are no severe hitbox errors, this is why some people get those weird kills and/or misses.
3. Movement (and aim). This is by far the biggest problem I see in CS:S as it is now. A good player can almost run around the important maps in CS with their eyes closed (or flashed!) knowing where they are and where something might block their movement. In CS:S, however, there are all sorts of small objects littering the ground, which in itself is not a problem, but when the player reacts to these items by "bouncing back", problems start to appear. In a game where one death can cost a team three rounds, having players jerk around all of a sudden in a firefight is far from a good thing. I honestly hope this can be resolved in a way that player movement could be as smooth as possible, not hindering aim in any way.
Another problem with movement is the way how things get really jerky if you are close to other players and sometimes even when near walls. CS is a game where you are supposed to work with others and move in groups. It shouldn't be a game where you can't aim while in the close vicinity of other players. Anything that messes with the aim when it is not absolutely necessary (such as when mid-air, which is a good thing IMO), should be avoided. Actually another example of this is how you bounce down the slopes in de_cbble, for example, instead of walking down smoothly. Half of the time you are in air = not good. Also, aiming in combat isn't nearly as smooth as it is in CS 1.6, but I assume that this is more of a problem with low FPS than a real problem with the game.
"Weren't you supposed to tell us about the big issues in the game?", you may ask. Well, those that I mentioned are pretty big, believe me or not, and they definitely are things that shouldn't be like that in the game. Problems in CS are a bit like that famous snowball which eventually grew into an avalanche, or whatever metaphor you have in your country! Most CS players aren't opposed to change as some of you said, quite the contrary actually, good changes are always welcome. But the thing is that the points I mentioned above are issues that, in my opinion, take the game in a wrong direction. However, they are, I hope, quite easy to fix. I am sure that Valve will take care of them, and thus retain some of the features that made CS 1.6 so brilliant all the while adding some new amazing features and improvements, which there already are many in CS:S compared to 1.6. What CS:S lacks, though, is some polish in order to make it great not only for public but also for match play.
Ok, so that took me a half an hour to write. If nobody even bothers to read it, let alone reply, there will be bloody murders! :sniper:
There have been several good arguments from both sides. I agree with many of you that most of the problems are quite minor and that CS:S is not going to stay the way it is now, Valve is bound to update it (A LOT), just like they did with the original CS and, more recently, CS:CZ. But also, I agree with ukfluke in a way (although he is being a complete and total ass about it) in that right now the game still has a few bigger (which still might seem minor to some) issues and that the game isn't really ready for competitive match play yet. I will state some of the reasons later in this post.
Now, I am probably what someone like Wesisapie might refer to as "an ultra serious clan loser". :dork: While I am not that serious (the whole "pro-gaming" thing would never ever be for me, even if I some day had the skill), I still enjoy the tactical aspect of a 5on5 CS match very much, more so than probably 95% of the whole community. In my books (before flaming me, remember this really is only my opinion!) nothing online gaming has to offer can beat a 5on5 match of CS with my friends against a high-skilled team. We have been playing since the first betas, and here in Finland we play on pretty much the highest possible level in CS without actually "going pro" as they say. I like to think, at least, that when it comes to CS, I know what I am talking about. That doesn't mean, however, that I couldn't be wrong with some of the arguments I'm going to present, and I encourage everyone to prove me wrong and offer solutions and feedback as long as you do it in a civilized manner.
Now onto the bigger faults in current CS:S that I have noticed during my admittedly limited playing time. These are a few things that I came up with off the top of my head, and this is by no means any sort of "definitive" list.
1. Maps. This is an area where CS:S definitely needs improvement. While most of the maps in CS:S right now provide loads and loads of fun on publics, they are not suited for match play. Of the CS 1.6 maps, more or less only de_dust2, de_train, de_nuke and de_inferno (and to some extent de_cbble, de_aztec and de_cpl_mill) are played frequently in leagues and ladders. They have the best balance and best layout for matches. CS:S has only one of the main four, de_dust2. The improvements made on the other maps in CS:S aren't enough to bring them to a good enough level for matches. However, I am sure that Valve understands the need for the levels I mentioned and is already hard at work bringing them to life on the Source engine. Also, a couple of new (good!) maps would not hurt either!
(2.) Hitboxes. Now, I am not even completely sure there is a problem with the hitboxes, since I haven't been able to play enough yet due to university taking a great deal of my time. But I do know that while CS has a long history of hitbox bugs, most of them have been fixed. As of now, I am only aware of two hitbox bugs in current CS 1.6: 1) shooting a crouched defusing CT from a certain angle, 2) getting a HS from behind a player is often impossible, seems as if the back hitbox is in the way). So I would say that Valve has done a fairly decent job, and I would imagine that if there in fact are hitbox bugs in CS:S, they too will be fixed in the coming months. But still, since so many people are complaining about bad hitboxes, there has to be something behind it, right? One things that could explain it is the netcode, or rather people's unawareness as to how it works. Let me just say this: playing on the default network settings is not very accurate, at least not if you have a decent Internet connection. Understanding what commands such as rate, cl_updaterate, cl_cmdrate and ex_interp (cl_interp in CS:S?) do and adjusting them to their proper values will greatly enhance the accuracy of the game, that is, if these commands actually fuction as they do in CS 1.6 and I have no reason to believe otherwise. I would imagine that if there in fact are no severe hitbox errors, this is why some people get those weird kills and/or misses.
3. Movement (and aim). This is by far the biggest problem I see in CS:S as it is now. A good player can almost run around the important maps in CS with their eyes closed (or flashed!) knowing where they are and where something might block their movement. In CS:S, however, there are all sorts of small objects littering the ground, which in itself is not a problem, but when the player reacts to these items by "bouncing back", problems start to appear. In a game where one death can cost a team three rounds, having players jerk around all of a sudden in a firefight is far from a good thing. I honestly hope this can be resolved in a way that player movement could be as smooth as possible, not hindering aim in any way.
Another problem with movement is the way how things get really jerky if you are close to other players and sometimes even when near walls. CS is a game where you are supposed to work with others and move in groups. It shouldn't be a game where you can't aim while in the close vicinity of other players. Anything that messes with the aim when it is not absolutely necessary (such as when mid-air, which is a good thing IMO), should be avoided. Actually another example of this is how you bounce down the slopes in de_cbble, for example, instead of walking down smoothly. Half of the time you are in air = not good. Also, aiming in combat isn't nearly as smooth as it is in CS 1.6, but I assume that this is more of a problem with low FPS than a real problem with the game.
"Weren't you supposed to tell us about the big issues in the game?", you may ask. Well, those that I mentioned are pretty big, believe me or not, and they definitely are things that shouldn't be like that in the game. Problems in CS are a bit like that famous snowball which eventually grew into an avalanche, or whatever metaphor you have in your country!
Most CS players aren't opposed to change as some of you said, quite the contrary actually, good changes are always welcome. But the thing is that the points I mentioned above are issues that, in my opinion, take the game in a wrong direction. However, they are, I hope, quite easy to fix. I am sure that Valve will take care of them, and thus retain some of the features that made CS 1.6 so brilliant all the while adding some new amazing features and improvements, which there already are many in CS:S compared to 1.6. What CS:S lacks, though, is some polish in order to make it great not only for public but also for match play.Ok, so that took me a half an hour to write. If nobody even bothers to read it, let alone reply, there will be bloody murders! :sniper:
G
graydon20
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You guys should stop whining (well those of you who are). The Official Game (HL-2) isn't even out yet. Valve released CS:S because the community was at their throats about it, and because they wanted FEEDBACK from the community before they go to retail sales. If it takes them a month or so to iron out the bugs and dislikes from the current version, once the 'Final' Boxed Retail version that the rest of the world will play, it'll end up being upto speed, and good for everyone.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
AHHHHHHHH OFF TOPIC SPAM AAAAAAHHHHHH
Just about anyone who plays competitive CS feels that cs:s is not yet ready for real CPL/CAL play.
For me, I used to spray alot, and rather well. It got worse in 1.6, but not uncontrollable. In cs:s, every time i spray it feels like a crap shoot. Very hard to control.
[edit] not talking about the 2 constructive posts above mine. Goooo topic!
AHHHHHHHH OFF TOPIC SPAM AAAAAAHHHHHH
Just about anyone who plays competitive CS feels that cs:s is not yet ready for real CPL/CAL play.
For me, I used to spray alot, and rather well. It got worse in 1.6, but not uncontrollable. In cs:s, every time i spray it feels like a crap shoot. Very hard to control.
[edit] not talking about the 2 constructive posts above mine. Goooo topic!
Edge
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ukfluke said:Para "pld" in game means "played" .abreviation of "well played" also seen as "wp"
Edge really? http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=learnt
DAMN BRITS! I stand corrected
I used to get smacked in the head for saying learnt when I was a kid.
Z
ZeroCoolX
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It's a brand new game and it has to undergo some changes for sure...
I hope no one expects new borns to be born and automatically send them to college
just wait for some nice patches and over time things will get fixed :cheers:
I hope no one expects new borns to be born and automatically send them to college
just wait for some nice patches and over time things will get fixed :cheers:
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