Curious about the A.I.

[Farrowlesparrow]

I'm just wondering what everyone thinks about the reactions the AI might have in some situations.

Take for instance if an unarmed man was trapped in a room with some enemy creature. And the only way out was through.

1. A Glass window - Would he dive through it?
2. An open window (no glass or bars or anything) - Would he again dive through, perhaps launching him self out with his arm on the ledge.
3. Some hole in the wall - Would he crawl though it
4. A vent above a table or nearer to the floor - Would he jump up and climb in or again crawl through like the hole.
5.Beating up the enemy with bare fists - Would they actually attack the enemy even if it was an alien. Perhaps they might try to beat up a soldier but just run away from an ant lion.

Before someone tries to flame me. I did just want to know everyones thoughts. I didn't ask for the answer because i know nobody knows. And yes i know the AI chooses to do the "coolest" things.

I just want to know what everyone thinks.

 

[The Mullinator]

I think #1 and #2 are the most likely. Im hoping #5 isnt what would happen. You have to give a bit more detail though, if the persons gets scared easily then they may panic and do none of the above.

 

[Mr.Reak]

Well, are you talking about HL2? First, we need to know if HL2 monsters\soldiers will be able to use ladder, jump, etc. If they can’t jump or anything like that, than I don’t think AI will be able to jump out the window.

But I think #1 and #2.

 

[Hacker]

I hope, the AI would choose the possibilities from 1 to 4 - 5 only if the enemy is weak and/or human.

P.S.: Why don't you email Gabe?

 

[Axyon]

I'd like to know the answer to this, as well. Definitely mail Gabe, someone.

 

[Hudson]

the AI is pretty advanced, should be able to do one or 2 of those

 

[SD1]

chckout the latests email from gabe in the top sticky, very interesting

SD

 

[Arn]

i think you guys are getting ahead of yourselves. the hl2 ai will probably be the best yet, but i dont think it is good enough to do any of those things except maybe to get as far away as possible like a corner

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

I dunno, i mean Valve have always been very good at AI. Just look at the number of monsters in HL1. Like the hound eye things. They hunt in packs. Or the army who run from nades. That was impresive for the time and still beats alot of games.


Personaly I think that HL2s AI is gona be the thing that makes the game what it is. I mean look at theant lions. They jumped around all over the place from ledge to ledge. And the combine with the door. And shooting through the window. And the combine running from the buggy. And the Alien gunship flying in strafing movements. And, and, and.................. etc


I think the AI will out class anything else we have ever seen. Remember that these videos are old. Now remember that AI can be updated alot easier than most things such as graphics. :

 

[simmo]

How bout e-mailing Gabe about this, so we can get the right answer

 

[el Chi]

Personally I'd like to see the guy try and run away around the room, chased by the Ant Lion in a Benny Hill stylee. Excellent.

 

[Lifthz]

I've already stated that I did not like the display of the A.I. in the E3 build. Hopefully A.I. was turned off or was not fully implemented yet or something, I really was not impressed.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

rofl,

yes someone mail gabe asap. I would but he answered me once but not once since

 

[Mountain Man]

According to Gabe Newall (check the "Info from Valve" sticky thread) the AI is more than capable of matching your movements, even to the point of being able to climb over obstacles you may throw in its path.

And based on other sources of information I've read, there are a number of factors that determine the action the AI will take. For instance, if the AI is outmatched, it will flee. If it is engaging a target and another target that represents a greater threat appears, the AI will engage the more dangerous target. If you hide, the AI will try multiple paths to get to you.

Now whether any of that includes the AI jumping through windows to get away from an adversary remains to be seen, but I'd imagine it would be entirely possible if Valve decided it made good gameplay sense.

I've already stated that I did not like the display of the A.I. in the E3 build. Hopefully A.I. was turned off or was not implemented yet or something, I really was not impressed.

It has been stated multiple times that a majority of the AI routines were disabled for the E3 demos. The only example of AI I can think of off hand is when Gordan blocks the door with the table and the AI finds an alternate line of fire (in this case, the windows) in order to engage our mute hero.

 

[Lifthz]

"Remember that these videos are old. Now remember that AI can be updated alot easier than most things such as graphics"

Not at all. You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Lifthz - thats just sily

The AI was turned off in parts. I thought we established that.

Also Its still THE BEST GOD DAMN AI I have ever seen

I mean come off it, you cant be serious saying its not impresive haveing the enemy poke its gun through the window and shoot around for you.


And if your commenting on the enemy being a poor shot, well thats because they wanted it that way. Not because thats what it is in the game

 

[Lifthz]

May be so. However that was far from the best A.I. I have seen, I don't know what you've seen.

Valve has the job of surpassing Halo's A.I., as far as i've seen in any game that i've played that game has the best A.I. I have ever seen so far. It's the major reason that game won GOTY.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Lifthz- I really dont want to get into an arguement with you, I aint that sort of person but seriously. I do know something about AI. My brother is going into it profesionaly some day. And i have learned alot.

And true, its harder than some things. Its alot easier to update that most. Its just rules, and testing rules. And continueing till its done.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

And i havent seen much halo AI i admit. so meh, maybe. Give me some examples. I might be willing to look into getting it if its beter than hl2s

 

[Lifthz]

Making truly good A.I. is not an easy task. In fact it is harder and more tedious than graphics... so no, you don't really know what you're talking about in this case. Perhaps your brother does if he's done both...

The major reason I say I was not impressed with the A.I. shown at E3 was because enemies simply stood around in 1 spot while shooting and/or reloading... that alone speaks for itself.

I honestly don't see what people saw so amazing about the A.I. they showed at E3.

 

[Mr.Reak]

Originally posted by Lifthz
Making truly good A.I. is not an easy task. In fact it is harder and more tedious than graphics... so no, you don't really know what you're talking about in this case. Perhaps your brother does if he's done both...

The major reason I say I was not impressed with the A.I. shown at E3 was because enemies simply stood around in 1 spot while shooting and/or reloading... that alone speaks for itself.

I honestly don't see what people saw so amazing about the A.I. they showed at E3.

I think it was stated 101 times that AI was turned of most of the time, they showed of what AI can do with that table scene. Where you fight with resistance together, they were showing AI of resistance. For example, remember when guy gets shot by turret? Well, another guy, who was behind him, doesn't just ran blindly after him to die, but waits for you to clean that turret.

 

[Lifthz]

Originally posted by marksmanHL2
And i havent seen much halo AI i admit. so meh, maybe. Give me some examples. I might be willing to look into getting it if its beter than hl2s

I don't know if Half-Life 2's will surpass Halo 1's A.I. yet, because I doubt that we've seen the real A.I. of Half-Life 2 yet. Well have to wait and see I guess.

Originally posted by Mr.Reak
I think it was stated 101 times that AI was turned of most of the time, they showed of what AI can do with that table scene. Where you fight with resistance together, they were showing AI of resistance. For example, remember when guy gets shot by turret? Well, another guy, who was behind him, doesn't just ran blindly after him to die, but waits for you to clean that turret.

I understand that they said the A.I. wasn't turned all the way up (as i've stated before).

However when people run around saying that's the best A.I. they ever saw... I have to object.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

I dont mean modeling or textureing if thats what you thought. I meant the hardcore engine stuff. Which people seam to think they will update. And yess it can be hard to do. But its possible none the less. And valve are very clever people.

And I thought they made them stand their for effect. Thats what I heard. Cant remember where mind.


I mean in the buggy sequence you shoot over the barrels with the gause gun and the combine guy ducks behind them when they are knocked over instead of just standing there. Thats fairly impresive in its self.

I cant be bothered to keep adding examples. SO basicaly i am saying thats its impresive and still could be worked further on if needed

 

[Axyon]

Originally posted by Lifthz
Making truly good A.I. is not an easy task. In fact it is harder and more tedious than graphics... so no, you don't really know what you're talking about in this case. Perhaps your brother does if he's done both...

The major reason I say I was not impressed with the A.I. shown at E3 was because enemies simply stood around in 1 spot while shooting and/or reloading... that alone speaks for itself.

I honestly don't see what people saw so amazing about the A.I. they showed at E3.

You're right, it wasn't that amazing, but as it's been mentioned before; the AI was definitely turned off in some sections - an example being the street fighting with Barney. The Combine didn't react when you threw grenades at them, they were sluggish when you ran round behind the gates and began firing etc.

It will be different come retail.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

I think basicaly we need to wait and see. We cant do much else. Neway g2g eat now. talk later.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Lifthz you should stop complaining about something thats just been explained.

Many AI routines were turned off to allow for emonstration of certain things. Pysics being the main example. For instance the swinging beam and the grenade thrown at the soldiers. How many soldiers do you know would just stand there when a grenade is thrown at them? Valve wouldnt make that mistake. Even in Hl the soldiers ran from grenades (most of the time). They wanted to you that you could blow soldiers 15 foot with a grenade (i found that a bit weird but still thats not the point.)

 

[Axyon]

One thing, though. Can we establish who's e-mailed Gabe about this? We don't want dozens of people asking him the same thing.

 

[Lifthz]

Originally posted by marksmanHL2
I dont mean modeling or textureing if thats what you thought. I meant the hardcore engine stuff. Which people seam to think they will update. And yess it can be hard to do. But its possible none the less. And valve are very clever people.

And I thought they made them stand their for effect. Thats what I heard. Cant remember where mind.


I mean in the buggy sequence you shoot over the barrels with the gause gun and the combine guy ducks behind them when they are knocked over instead of just standing there. Thats fairly impresive in its self.

I cant be bothered to keep adding examples. SO basicaly i am saying thats its impresive and still could be worked further on if needed

If you're talking about the whole game engine... A.I. is the hardest part if it's really good.

Originally posted by Abom|nation
One thing, though. Can we establish who's e-mailed Gabe about this? We don't want dozens of people asking him the same thing.

I really don't like the idea of people constantly e-mailing Gabe for every question that comes to mind. I imagine it would be quite annoying at a certain point.

Originally posted by Farrowlesparrow
Lifthz you should stop complaining about something thats just been explained.

Many AI routines were turned off to allow for emonstration of certain things. Pysics being the main example. For instance the swinging beam and the grenade thrown at the soldiers. How many soldiers do you know would just stand there when a grenade is thrown at them? Valve wouldnt make that mistake. Even in Hl the soldiers ran from grenades (most of the time). They wanted to you that you could blow soldiers 15 foot with a grenade (i found that a bit weird but still thats not the point.)

I think if you actually read my posts you would get the point that I understand that.

I'm not "complaining" about anything. I'm only stating what was shown. And if someone says something that I think is so far totally false, then I will express that.

 

[el Chi]

Originally posted by Lifthz
no, you don't really know what you're talking about in this case

Really, there's no need to be quite so curt with the guy. And you've been that since the start of the dialogue between the two of you - it makes you sound particularly arrogant. I'm not looking to get sucked into an argument here - just thought I'd mention it.
On topic however, I agree with you. The AI (combine soldier's especially) in the e3 demos really was alarmingly stationary. There's one point in that Gamespot video with the flying buzzsaws where Freeman goes down some small steps (after killing the other 2 combine troopers) and comes face-to-face with another combine who could have shot him before but didn't, and NOW he reacts so slowly he only looses off a couple of rounds before he's pushing up the daisies... Not great. But as everyone has said, this is probably unfinished - think how great the original's was. Valve really aren't going to let THAT slip in terms of quality, now are they? Let's hope.

 

[Axyon]

Originally posted by Lifthz


I really don't like the idea of people constantly e-mailing Gabe for every question that comes to mind. I imagine it would be quite annoying at a certain point.

This is a new, original question that alot of people would like answered. Gabe's offered to answer questions, and this is a perfect opportunity to utilize the system that he has so generously created. He's doing this on his own accord, and has never complained about the amount of e-mails he gets, so I think there's nothing wrong with asking him one more question, do you?

 

[Lifthz]

Originally posted by Abom|nation
This is a new, original question that alot of people would like answered. Gabe's offered to answer questions, and this is a perfect opportunity to utilize the system that he has so generously created. He's doing this on his own accord, and has never complained about the amount of e-mails he gets, so I think there's nothing wrong with asking him one more question, do you?

I know that, but it's like every thread I see someone is asking Gabe someting. I could only imagine how many e-mails he's got.

 

[Sirius]

I have to agree with Lifthz on this one. The demonstrations were far from the best AI ever seen. My question to the rest of you is; we've established that the AI was probably toned down or even off completely, yet you still glorify it as the best in the industry. So which is it? The best you've seen, or turned off and thus non-existent?

I'm not trying to argue with you all either, just trying to clear some things up. I have faith that Valve will create some spectacular AI, but the topic at hand is the only source we've been given thus far, the E3 demos. From that I don't think you can conclude that HL2 has the best AI ever seen.

 

[Axyon]

Originally posted by Lifthz
I know that, but it's like every thread I see someone is asking Gabe someting. I could only imagine how many e-mails he's got.

Once he asks us to cease asking him questions, I'm sure everyone will comply, but for now I see no problem.

 

[Mr.Reak]

Originally posted by Sirius
I have to agree with Lifthz on this one. The demonstrations were far from the best AI ever seen. My question to the rest of you is; we've established that the AI was probably toned down or even off completely, yet you still glorify it as the best in the industry. So which is it? The best you've seen, or turned off and thus non-existent?

I'm not trying to argue with you all either, just trying to clear some things up. I have faith that Valve will create some spectacular AI, but the topic at hand is the only source we've been given thus far, the E3 demos. From that I don't think you can conclude that HL2 has the best AI ever seen.

Answer me this, when player blocked door with table, did you ever seen anything like this in another game? Where Ai won’t just stand there, doing nothing, but actually AI is smart enough to check the window, even smart enough to try and open the door several times?

 

[Lifthz]

It's the best A.I. ever because the combine soldier started shooting through the window (not even at Gordon when he began shooting) and they busted the door open?

And they didn't feel smart enough to follow Gordon up the stairs.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Perhaps they were told not to by valve. Perhaps they felt Gordon might come running back down again when he saw the other soldier. They may have though that since it was boarded up upstairs they could wait at the entrace for him to be flused out.

 

[Axyon]

Originally posted by Lifthz
It's the best A.I. ever because the combine soldier started shooting through the window (not even at Gordon when he began shooting) and they busted the door open?

And they didn't feel smart enough to follow Gordon up the stairs.

How do you know? They may have, but Gordon barricaded another entrance.. by the time they pass it, he would have been out of sight.

 

[Mr.Reak]

Yes it is, because the combine in the window started to spray, to scare Gordon from the door, so the second combine can open it.

 

[Lifthz]

The only impressive part of that sequence in terms of A.I was when the Combine soldier first came up the stairs... he saw Gordon through the window and shot quickly. THAT particularly was impressive. After that, nothing else there was impressive in terms of A.I.

The only impressive part of that sequence in terms of A.I was when the Combine soldier first came up the stairs... he saw Gordon through the window and shot quickly. THAT particularly was impressive. After that, nothing else there was impressive in terms of A.I.

Originally posted by Abom|nation
How do you know? They may have, but Gordon barricaded another entrance.. by the time they pass it, he would have been out of sight.

He was on the roof shooting the wood to swing and kill their buddies. Lol.

He only threw the mattress and some other small objects down there, I think they could possibly pass it in time to see him.

 

[Mr.Reak]

Originally posted by Lifthz
The only impressive part of that sequence in terms of A.I was when the Combine soldier first came up the stairs... he saw Gordon through the window and shot quickly. THAT particularly was impressive. After that, nothing else there was impressive in terms of A.I.

Man, I am tired of you ignoring posts and seeing only things you want to see.
You know why Ai wasn’t impressive after that? Because they already showed of AI, they moved on showing other things.