Curious about the A.I.

Originally posted by Mr.Reak
Man, I am tired of you ignoring posts and seeing only things you want to see.
You know why Ai wasn’t impressive after that? Because they already showed of AI, they moved on showing other things.
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I'm not ignoring anything, most of the posts you guys are making just seem to be made up out of your head though. Kinda like fill in the blanks.

No. As you and everyone else said, the A.I. was probably turned off (or at least mostly so), that's why it didn't seem too impressive to me.

It's either it was on or off.

I personally think it was off, in which case we should be see much more impressive enemy reactions in Half-Life 2.
 
Originally posted by Lifthz
I'm not ignoring anything, most of the posts you guys are making just seem to be made up out of your head though. Kinda like fill in the blanks.

No. As you and everyone else said, the A.I. was probably turned off (or at least mostly so), that's why it didn't seem too impressive to me.

It's either it was on or off.

I personally think it was off.
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Problem is, we don’t make this things up. I know that Gabe stated many times about AI being turned off in some places. Check out sticky topic.
 
I'm not talking about the A.I. being turned off or on in terms of what you guys seemed to be making up.

I was talking about the stuff you guys were making up. Lol.

ie. :

Originally posted by Mr.Reak
Yes it is, because the combine in the window started to spray, to scare Gordon from the door, so the second combine can open it.
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The Combine shooting through the window was shooting at the washing machine... while Gordon was still by the door. Then the player proceeded to run behind the washing machine by choice.
 
So why did Valve show a demo of an old version of the game with AI turned off? Perhaps I'm wrong, but isn't making a demo just a matter of recording it and compiling it? Doesn't seem to hard, seems like they could have made the demos with a more current version, possibly with AI turned on. It also seems like they would want to make the best possible first impression.
 
Originally posted by Lifthz

The Combine shooting through the window was shooting at the washing machine... while Gordon was still by the door. Then the player proceeded to run behind the washing machine by choice.
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You don't know this. He was probably just guess-firing because he didn't want to stick his head inside and see where Gordon was.
 
The video was not a very good deminstration of the AI for HL2. Just remember Valve is trying to keep almost everything secret, even the AI.
Also I believe the AI in HL2 will be a lot more impressive then anyone is thinking. When you first play the game you may not be impressed at first, but after a while you will notice the soldiers do not always act the same way all the time, diferent soldiers will do different things, each soldier may shoot differently some good some bad. When they try to hunt you down your not going to notice a brilliant enemy doing the perfect and the ausome moves to get you. You will see how they do it differently and the way you would expect something real to do it.
That is most likely what Vavle is doing with the AI. Making it so the game will be fun to play through even against the same creatures again and again.

For my guess that is what the AI will be, a fuel for interest in the game, and a AI like that will become impressive the more you play. Its bound to do some really cool stuff :cheese:

And anyway Black and White had the most advanced AI hehe, but that would be pointless to have that much in HL2 ;)
 
I think it was a very impressive impression in an overall sense. Just not in the A.I. sense.
 
Originally posted by Mr.Reak
Answer me this, when player blocked door with table, did you ever seen anything like this in another game? Where Ai won’t just stand there, doing nothing, but actually AI is smart enough to check the window, even smart enough to try and open the door several times?
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So he shot through a window, right next to the door. There's not much AI going into that. He took a few steps and proceeded to fire, blindly I might add. Besides there were plenty of other soldiers who stood there and did very little. My point is that either the AI was on or off. If it's off then obviously it's not the best AI you've seen because there wasn't any. If it was on, then from what we've seen it still isn't the best AI out there.

To top that off, how do we know those events weren't scripted or orchestrated by Valve themselves? Sure they said nothing was scripted, but how do we know? They could be playing us all for fools. Those videos weren't live player feeds. They were pre-recorded and played back at E3. They could have easily been staged. Most people here seem to look at this game from a "fanboy" perspective instead of taking a subjective point of view to the material presented.
 
Originally posted by Abom|nation
You don't know this. He was probably just guess-firing because he didn't want to stick his head inside and see where Gordon was.
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I do know that. I saw it happening in the video. That's what happened. Whether he was "guess firing" or not, what I said was totally true.

If he was indeed "guess firing" then the A.I. is more impressive than I think it is from the looks of it, but YOU are just guessing that as of right now.
 
Originally posted by Sirius


To top that off, how do we know those events weren't scripted or orchestrated by Valve themselves? Sure they said nothing was scripted, but how do we know? They could be playing us all for fools. Those videos weren't live player feeds. They were pre-recorded and played back at E3. They could have easily been staged. Most people here seem to look at this game from a "fanboy" perspective instead of taking a subjective point of view to the material presented.
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Because Valve knows that when we get to the same part of the game and find out it was scripted, and that they were lying to us, their reputation will plummet. I don't think they'd make that claim falsely.
 
CommieX, the AI was turned off by choice. The sequences shown in those videos were all put in with a particular reason in mind. Having the AI turned on in some of those sequences would have taken the spotlight off what valve was trying to show us.
 
Originally posted by Lifthz
I do know that. I saw it happening in the video. That's what happened. Whether he was "guess firing" or not, what I said was totally true.

If he was indeed "guess firing" then the A.I. is more impressive than I think it is from the looks of it, but YOU are just guessing that as of right now.
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Indeed I am. Which is why we should ask Gabe Newell! Oh wait, you're against that.
 
Originally posted by Abom|nation
Because Valve knows that when we get to the same part of the game and find out it was scripted, and that they were lying to us, their reputation will plummet. I don't think they'd make that claim falsely.
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I guess we will have to hold them to that. Yes we will. ;)

Originally posted by qckbeam
CommieX, the AI was turned off by choice. The sequences shown in those videos were all put in with a particular reason in mind. Having the AI turned on in some of those sequences would have taken the spotlight off what valve was trying to show us.
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Meh, they should've showed us the whole thing damnit! Lol. I care not for spotlights, I have my own searcher in my eyes than can spotlight everything after repeated watching. ;)

Originally posted by Abom|nation
Indeed I am. Which is why we should ask Gabe Newell! Oh wait, you're against that.
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Lol. It's not like I can actually stop anyone.
 
I'm going to turn the difficulty all the way up the first time I play Half-Life 2. And I should get my ass kicked at first... if not, i'm going to remember this thread.
 
After reading the whole topic I cant really make judgement on the AI, only wait and see.

Now what I will say is what I would love to see in the game.

'
Rather than fighting sequences been over very quickly like most games, where once the fire fight has started your in there or dead, how about the enemies roll out the way and think

"ok, how can we flank him, or how can I protect him who has more health than me but still damage the player"

This kind of clever decision making is what can make the difference. If enemies think about other enemies in a respective manner, protect themselves and also team mates.
unless anyone has heard anything through the grape vine?
 
If you scroll to the top of this page, you would see I said Black and White 2 has the most advanced AI. ;) But I beleive HL2 will have the funnest AI to play with out of all games.
 
The creatures in Black and White technically have the best A.I. ever, yeah. But that kind of A.I. would not work in an FPS. Lol. It serves a different and more specific purpose.

For example you won't find the Black and White creatures in a shoot-out. Lol. Their A.I. is not designed for that.

You won't find a Strider going to take a dump in the parking lot though. Lol.
 
hehe Agreed.

If you had a clash of AI, Gordon Freemon would probably be picked up and made into a Breeding disciple.
 
Valve has been working on the AI for five years (and longer, as they no doubt used the original Half-Life as a jumping off point). I think we're going to be impressed.
 
Valve has been working on Half-Life 2 for almost 5 years, that's true.

That is the whole project, not just 1 specific part of it, so you don't know exactly how long they've worked on A.I.

I will see for myself the results of the A.I. As I said. If I get my ass kicked the first time I play HL2 I will know. ;)
 
erm even if u got ur ass kiked thats no way to judge the AI. seriously I mean have you ever played project IGI. That game has the gayest AI ever but if they made it so the enemy never missed it would kik you ass.
 
Originally posted by Lifthz
Valve has been working on Half-Life 2 for almost 5 years, that's true.

That is the whole project, not just 1 specific part of it, so you don't know exactly how long they've worked on A.I.
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Since AI is such a specialized area of expertise, there's usually one or two developers who work on nothing else, so while I'm guessing, it is conceivable that someone at Valve has been working exclusively on the AI throughout the entire developement cycle, and given how advanced the AI sounds, I say it's not only possible but probable.
 
Well I don't really know exactly how "advanced" that A.I. sounds, can someone post a link to some detailed explaination of the A.I? I'd be interested in reading in exactly what they're planning since everyone is saying it's the most advanced A.I. ever.

Originally posted by marksmanHL2 :)
erm even if u got ur ass kiked thats no way to judge the AI. seriously I mean have you ever played project IGI. That game has the gayest AI ever but if they made it so the enemy never missed it would kik you ass.
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Trust me, I will know just how good the A.I. is and if it's very good or not. ;)
 
Lifthz, while i admire you're sticking to your guns over this, i do feel you are being a little pesimistic on the matter. I am slightly bothered however, over you repeated stating that people are calling this the best AI ever. They are, so far as i'm seeing (maybe i need my eyes tested) only saying they expect the AI to be something pretty special, while i agree with them, i also see your point that little concrete evidence has been supplied. Just so people know btw, there were TWO combine soldiers at the door. one tried to open it whilst the other shot blind through the window for a distraction, he was not close enough to aim properly at first, he stops, then re-aims closer to Gordon when he moves off, as the other combine breaks down the door and opens fire. This was, from what i remember, the only demonstration of the AI, so it looks like they are keeping it secret for a little while longer. I'm waiting for the grunt demo that HL1 had before release, showing 3-4 different outcomes of squad AI behavior when the same scene was played over.
 
Yeah, the real point of AI is not to make things hard, it's to make things interesting. Anyone can make it hard. What you want are enemy characters with many different options that they can use in myriad of ways to outsmart you or act least appear believable as game characters with real goals and interests that they are trying to simulate. HL1/Op4 still has some of the best enemy AI out there (which is surprising, considering it's been years), and I think the main reason is not simply because the enemies can move as units, but because their strengths and weaknesses are well thought out as characters, and because they are placed in environments that really befit their abilities. There's one battle section in Op4 where you first get some friendly soldiers to play against blackops women: it's basically just a room full of boxes, but to watch you allies fanning out through the room while the blackops jump in and out is truly a sight to see, and incredibly fun to play. It's not hard to win, but it's FUN to win.
 
Good A.I. makes things both difficult and interesting Apos.

Also, i've said the reason why I don't think i've seen the best A.I. ever in Half-Life 2, or at least not yet.
 
Originally posted by Lifthz
Good A.I. makes things both difficult and interesting Apos.

Also, i've said the reason why I don't think i've seen the best A.I. ever in Half-Life 2, or at least not yet.
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I have been noticing that you seem to have a pretty negative attitude towards HL2's AI. I am going to be honest and admit that i have not read all of the forums in this thread so i do not know if you have previously answered my coming question. If you have then i apologize.

Anyway, I just wanted to know whether or not you are aware that the enemy AI in HL2 was turned OFF (or limited) in those e3 videos? Sniper from the Sven Coop team (i think it was him anyway) came onto this board and let us know that the enemies had "stay put" flags enables so they would not move.

This being said, how can you claim that the AI in HL2 is bad?
 
A.I is simply a complex mix of scripted events that dynamically interacts with itself and reacts to the player. A false intelligence as the words A.I. literally mean. It's harder to make it good than it sounds though.
 
Originally posted by Banana
I have been noticing that you seem to have a pretty negative attitude towards HL2's AI. I am going to be honest and admit that i have not read all of the forums in this thread so i do not know if you have previously answered my coming question. If you have then i apologize.

Anyway, I just wanted to know whether or not you are aware that the enemy AI in HL2 was turned OFF (or limited) in those e3 videos? Sniper from the Sven Coop team (i think it was him anyway) came onto this board and let us know that the enemies had "stay put" flags enables so they would not move.

This being said, how can you claim that the AI in HL2 is bad?
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Again. It's not that I am negative towards it for no reason specifically. It's just that when I see enemies standing around in 1 spot while reloadinig, I tend to think that's NOT the best A.I. i've seen in my lifetime.

I understand that the E3 footage, the A.I. was turned off, that's what was said and that's what I noticed... so I don't know how it's the best A.I. ever that was on display if it was off....
 
I think Lifthz is just being realistic, and judging from what he has actually seen. Also, some of you seem to have overly high expectations. The first post, about whether or not an unarmed soldier would jump out of a window, I seriously doubt this will happen. For some reason, people seem to think that the AI in HL2 will be able to do this. Actually, it's less of an AI problem, and more of a problem of getting something like that to work in different situations, and making the character interact with the environment believably.
 
Originally posted by MaDMaXX
Lifthz, while i admire you're sticking to your guns over this, i do feel you are being a little pesimistic on the matter. I am slightly bothered however, over you repeated stating that people are calling this the best AI ever. They are, so far as i'm seeing (maybe i need my eyes tested) only saying they expect the AI to be something pretty special, while i agree with them, i also see your point that little concrete evidence has been supplied. Just so people know btw, there were TWO combine soldiers at the door. one tried to open it whilst the other shot blind through the window for a distraction, he was not close enough to aim properly at first, he stops, then re-aims closer to Gordon when he moves off, as the other combine breaks down the door and opens fire. This was, from what i remember, the only demonstration of the AI, so it looks like they are keeping it secret for a little while longer. I'm waiting for the grunt demo that HL1 had before release, showing 3-4 different outcomes of squad AI behavior when the same scene was played over.
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I'm only expressing what I SAW happen man. You guys are making up stuff that you think was the reason for it happening...

The Combine soldier shooting through the window was always shooting in the same exact area. The person playing just moved to behindn the washing machine after the soldier was already blindly shooting at it, it didn't re-aim anything.

I imagine that still being fun to go through, however that was not an example of the best A.I. i've ever seen in a videogame. That is all.
 
How can you think "its not the best AI I've seen..." if you also know they have stayput flags (AI effectively turned off)

You might not be getting your true point accross here, i don't know, but you're certainly contradicting your self :/
 
Normally, you don't build in the AI components until much later in development: once the world geometry is fully in. Most developers don't add in the finishing touches to AI until the very end.

However, don't forget that while the Combine were instructed to hold a position in most vids, the allies certainly didn't, and no doubt all humanoid AI will be at least as good if not better. Falling back under superior force (the striders), advancing, following and then breaking a following to move on their own. All pretty promising stuff.

Gabe and Stelly have also talked a lot about how important it is that enemies can follow you almost anywhere you go: gaps and walls wont frustrate them any more, and they will track you down no matter what. That also sounds pretty sophisticated (to have them jumping and climbing properly).

Again, however, all these features could be 100% true and still not work out very well for the game: you cant really tell how fun the AI is until you actually play it as a whole. The marines ability to throw grenades, for instance, was a mixed bag. Some time it was fantastic, like when they'd smoke you out with a grenade and then open fire when you ran out of cover. Or how they'd run from your grenades (Grenade!). But other times they seemed to have a perchance for blowing themselves up, especially if you were in a room and their "arc" simply bounced off a ceiling or a wall.
 
AI is important and all, but as long as it's at least on Half-Life's level then I'm fine with it. I'm more interested in the physics.
 
Good A.I. makes things both difficult and interesting Apos.
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Monkeys can make AI more or less difficult. Interesting is way way way more important.
 
Originally posted by MaDMaXX
How can you think "its not the best AI I've seen..." if you also know they have stayput flags (AI effectively turned off)

You might not be getting your true point accross here, i don't know, but you're certainly contradicting your self :/
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My point is this, and nothing else:

The E3 footage did not show be the best A.I. I have ever seen on display in a videogame. Most specifically the enemy A.I. It may have been that most of the A.I. was indeed mostly off. However the fact is that the E3 footage didn't show me the best I have seen.

And the TRUE test of the A.I. is when I actually see/play the full game on my PC. That is when the full A.I. of the game wil indeed be enabled and I will or will not see if it's the best A.I. i've played.

Originally posted by Apos
Monkeys can make AI more or less difficult. Interesting is way way way more important.
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Both of them are important. Indeed interesting in moreso.

Originally posted by CommieX
AI is important and all, but as long as it's at least on Half-Life's level then I'm fine with it. I'm more interested in the physics.
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For Half-Life 2 so far the most impressive thing are the physics. I can't wait to see it in action in multiplayer. Should be quite an amazing experience.
 
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