Cycles of periodic highs and lows of intelligence

[evil^milk]

I s'pose it will be rather random to create a thread like this, but what is there not to like about something random? For one, random things have an origin, even if the origin was a thought that commanded a random thing, like this thread.

Anyway, I'll cease my series of disconnected notions now, and turn now to the attention of the topic at hand I want to discuss with you, HL2.net.

It is without doubt that there is the possibility that I am a being whose intelligence is Wslightly above average. And this is so for most of HL2.net. We are in general, a smart bunch - at least when compared to countless internet communities. So I reasoned that if I was somewhat smart, then others here will at least be as smart and another bunch will be smarter.

Anyway, this topic deals with moments of apparent brilliance in an otherwise "normal" mind. Have you ever had one of those moments in which life and everything in it feels almost laughably interconnected and simple? One of those moments in which you realize your prejudices are only half-truths, your thoughts go from preoccupations dealing with bureaucracy and paperwork to entire mental dissertations (with imagined social commentary by an acclaimed social commenter of brilliant articulation and eloquence) on the necessity of bureaucratic systems and paper in the first place? How you realize you no longer have the time to form stereotypes, and even if those stereotypes are presented, you no longer despise the stereotype, but appreciate them fully?

One of you might say - lay off the crack mayn. This has little to do with drugs, but rather how the brain can (and I'll dare to propose the following hunch) how the brain can "mimic" some sort of neurotransmitter that causes pleasure derived from intellect and "higher thought". If you need a point of reference (and all you non-drug users, please don't judge me for this) think about weed and how, under the influence of it, the simplest of things seem amazing - albeit without the sensory overload and without any of the sensations associated with smoking weed, except the capacity to draw critical and valid relationships from the world.

My question is - what happens in the brain when all of this is going on? Is there too much dopamine in the brain, and can too much of whatever chemical causing such mental zenith (such that there is a chemical imbalance) be harmful?

I ask these things because now is a moment of normality. Statistically, I've felt normal and unenlightened through most of my life, but throughout the past month it has been different. At two other moments this has occured naturally (under extraordinary conditions of stress and other factors) and only once while being under some form of short-term narcotic influence (though, the reason for the last bout of heightened thinking began artificially and continued itself for a month, until now; at the moment, I still feel mentally stronger, but not to the point of near-madness).

Anyway, I reasoned that since this has happened to me two, three times in the past, then it is bound to happen again, though I need to understand it more fully to know how to perpetuate it and possibly convert it into a lifestyle, if at all possible and if there is no harm to my brain involved.

I think if you know what I'm on about, you'll realize that there is no reason to ever be bored, at all.

 

[Tyguy]

We still don't know all the details but so far the understanding is that THC mimics a chemical in our brain that binds to cannabinoid receptors, releasing dopamine. THC mimics a chemical called anandamide which our brain naturally produces. When THC binds with the cannabinoid receptors dopamine is released. This confused me for a while but apparently anandamide breaks down really quickly which is why we all aren't high all the time.

Marijuana is one of the reasons I started to read a lot and take interest in things which would have garnered zero interest in the past. Unfortunately, the more I read and learn the dumber I feel. I know that's kind of a cliche amongst intellectuals (and i'm not claiming to be one) but I get anxiety when I try to learn about something and can't work it out right away in my head. I wish I had this thirst for knowledge in high school though...that would have helped.

I've actually been on a cannabis hiatus for the past month for a couple reasons. One is that I wanted to see the difference in my thought process without any THC in my system. The other is because I'm probably getting drug tested by an employer...although I've thought about buying piss online. (I miss my green friend)

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

adderal

drugs do more than increase productivity, they allow you to access areas like critical thinking and practical problem solving as well as the creative, right brain side of things more esaily as well.

Also: mood does this.

These are your solutions. You're welcome.

 

[Tyguy]

adderall

I have a prescription for it, nothing allows me to focus more clearly. I used to be a bit irresponsible and take high doses at random times just to be able to concentrate for a few hours but now I take it daily. It's amazing how productive I've been even if I lost a few pounds and have sleeping trouble.

 

[staticprimer]

I just started taking adderall recently, and bizarrely enough I can actually sleep better now. I also had no idea how excessively active my mind was, and now things are quieter and I can think more quickly. I don't think drugs can make you more intelligent, but they can make your brain more efficient, thus giving the illusion of greater intelligence.

 

[evil^milk]

We still don't know all the details but so far the understanding is that THC mimics a chemical in our brain that binds to cannabinoid receptors, releasing dopamine. THC mimics a chemical called anandamide which our brain naturally produces. When THC binds with the cannabinoid receptors dopamine is released. This confused me for a while but apparently anandamide breaks down really quickly which is why we all aren't high all the time.

Marijuana is one of the reasons I started to read a lot and take interest in things which would have garnered zero interest in the past. Unfortunately, the more I read and learn the dumber I feel. I know that's kind of a cliche amongst intellectuals (and i'm not claiming to be one) but I get anxiety when I try to learn about something and can't work it out right away in my head. I wish I had this thirst for knowledge in high school though...that would have helped.

(I miss my green friend)

Things are starting to make more sense now. And I definitely feel you on the high school part - when I was in HS, I was too busy mindlessly studying and ignoring good times with people who considered me their friends. Also was pretty damn ignorant about a great amount of things... ugh. It's a good thing things have changed : D

@BHC - no, you're welcome because i granted you the opportunity to enlighten a fellow forumite. Nah jk. Actually, I've been prescribed what i think is the opposite of adderal (seroquel, i.e. quetiapine) for those times when I was too high on life (but I haven't taken seroquel in years, which is great). God, i think i should be more educated about this, but thanks : D

Oh btw I also lose a lot of sleep when I'm in this excited state. As a matter of fact I pulled my first all-nighter like, last year, and it was both great and terrible

@staticprimer - If your brain becomes more efficient with drug use, and if intelligence (or a subset of it) is defined by being able to come up with creative and logical solutions to problems in a less amount of time, wouldn't you be able to equate greater efficiency with greater intelligence? I can't come up with a good answer to this, jus' saying.

 

[Krynn72]

I didn't feel like reading this whole thing on my phone, so let me just say that I took an IQ test once and got a 143. So I'm a genius, no doubt. That fact, coupled with the fact that I am always at least content, if not quite happy with life and the things happening in mine, might support the conclusion you hypothesized. Of course I just skimmed the whole thing so maybe I'm not talking about the same thing.

Also, no drug threads, by decree of mighty Munro himself.

 

[VirusType2]

I didn't feel like reading this whole thing on my phone, so let me just say that I took an IQ test once and got a 143. So I'm a genius, no doubt. That fact, coupled with the fact that I am always at least content, if not quite happy with life and the things happening in mine, might support the conclusion you hypothesized. Of course I just skimmed the whole thing so maybe I'm not talking about the same thing.

Also, no drug threads, by decree of mighty Munro himself.

Everything you need to understand about Krynn72, in a nutshell.

 

[dfc05]

I have a lot of moments where I feel really STUPID.
Not a lot where I feel "enlightened", except perhaps when I'm dreaming about solving homework problems. Then I wake up and I'm like "that didn't make any sense at all!"

Anyhow, I'm not sure I'd always want to feel like that. Believing that things are all amazing and wonderful and interconnected and living under that delusion doesn't actually make it so. There's a lot to be said for accomplishing things while unenlightened. I was reading something written by a PhD graduate that said something to the effect of, "One day, I realized I was never going to be a "genius" and things weren't going to suddenly click into place. But I knew that I could work hard and be dedicated. So I did that."

 

[Sheepo]

I have an incredible aptitude for math, reasoning, and language, but I lack the focus, communicatin skills, and common sense most people seem to take for granted.

 

[Tyguy]

I was reading something written by a PhD graduate that said something to the effect of, "One day, I realized I was never going to be a "genius" and things weren't going to suddenly click into place. But I knew that I could work hard and be dedicated. So I did that."

This reminds me of Richard Feynman's explanation regarding the different ways people think. I've found that much of what I was unable to initially comprehend wasn't necessarily a factor of intelligence, rather it involved the way I processed the information. Feynman describes being able to count to 60 seconds while counting lines of type at the same time. He then goes on to describe how a friend of his could count to a minute but also speak while doing so. Feynman couldn't do this since he was actually counting the seconds in his head while the other guy was visualizing a ticking clock, allowing him to approach the experiment in a completely different way.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is the fact that people can have very unique ways of perceiving the world around them, it's just a matter of finding the most efficient path.

 

[VirusType2]

Sometimes I see people as incredibly ****ing stupid, but I don't think it's a special ability.

 

[Dekstar]

I think I should be relatively clever. I was at my sister's level of literacy (she's two years older than me) when I started primary school. I was also top of my class in other subjects. Then I came down with glandular fever (mono to you Americans, I think), and sleeping sickness as a by-product of that.
Now I constantly think I'm missing something in my head, that I should be smarter than I actually am. I'm still good with literacy and creativity, but all my other 'intelligent' aspects seem clouded. I barely passed my Maths A-level, despite doing a load of work and taking extra-curricular classes. It's not only affected my grades, but it's destroyed my self-esteem and confidence at regular intervals.

Maybe I should look into something which might help regain my intelligence.

 

[Krynn72]

Sometimes I see people as incredibly ****ing stupid, but I don't think it's a special ability.

I see it exactly 8.23 times per day.

Buh dum, TISH! Thats right, I made a posts per day joke. First one ever, you saw it here folks.

 

[Raziaar]

This day in history.

 

[Danimal]

Thread starts off with interesting topic.

A couple of people throw their 2 cents of legitimate tender in the fray, Danimal prepares wall of text of psychedelic experiences and it's relation to the removal of sensory filters, temporarily, or at least the perception of such.

Krynn and VirusType2 enters the thread, looking for religious people to rape, but instead find each other.

Egos clash.

Danimal has lost all interest to this thread so he decides to fan the flames of hatred by listing everything he perceives in said thread out in pseudo-bullet points.

What else is new, besides the dawning realisation to me that Krynn is the most typical American, and needs to change his name to Qonfused's IRL, because that in itself is still the most American name I've seen in my life.

 

[VirusType2]

I see it exactly 8.23 times per day.

Buh dum, TISH! Thats right, I made a posts per day joke. First one ever, you saw it here folks.

 

[Viperidae]

Yeah I get this feeling too when I'm on substances. My IQ is somewhere around 190 and I got 7 in all my AP courses without studying. I think my brain operates on a much more efficient level than other people. Almost everything new I attempt I'm really, really good without even trying. However, my complete lack of effort in all aspects of my academic, social, family and work life coupled with my numerous drug addictions just leads me to post pointless drivel on the internet all day.

 

[Raziaar]

Yeah I get this feeling too when I'm on substances. My IQ is somewhere around 190 and I got 7 in all my AP courses without studying. I think my brain operates on a much more efficient level than other people. Almost everything new I attempt I'm really, really good without even trying. However, my complete lack of effort in all aspects of my academic, social, family and work life coupled with my numerous drug addictions just leads me to post pointless drivel on the internet all day.

You're not better than me! I CAN CRUSH YOUR BRAIN WITH MY OWN.

 

[Krynn72]

Danimal will never understand me ;(

 

[Danimal]

Stop barking, Krynn. No one is at the front door.

 

[Krynn72]

Then who do I keep hearing?

 

[Danimal]

I-Uh, shit.

FREEMASONS! **** this shit.

 

[Bad^Hat]

I like how Danimal has become kind of like the

Spoiler

of halflife2.net.

"Oh no people are saying stuff better point it out in a vaguely derisive way also self-aware conspiracy joke lol"

Oops better put a "<3" here to denote the jovial and non-serious nature of this post.

<3.~~

 

[Krynn72]

To be honest, I liked Banimal much better than this new persona. I mean, I don't find anything really wrong with it, but its a bit repetitious, which makes it tiresome. I think he just needs time to flush it out and try and broaden it's repertoire.

 

[Avoidist]

Yeah I get this feeling too when I'm on substances. My IQ is somewhere around 190 and I got 7 in all my AP courses without studying.

I question the ability of your teachers and examiners.

Aw who am I kidding, I'm just jealous. Getting a first for honours physics doesn't make me smart. If I was smart I would have done engineering. Then I'd actually get job offers.

 

[dfc05]

Nah the smartest engineers turn down their $60K job offers to work a $20K grad student position where they are guaranteed to be forced out to look for another job in 5 years... thereby rendering themselves the stupidest engineers. Along with perhaps temping/contract work, one of the only jobs where you sign on with guaranteed job insecurity.

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XViCOAu6UC0
;( whyyyyy

The best bet is to be smart enough to pass but not smart enough to go to grad school. Bizarrely, my best friends in college were slackers and made C's but now they are making tons of money.

This reminds me of Richard Feynman's explanation regarding the different ways people think. I've found that much of what I was unable to initially comprehend wasn't necessarily a factor of intelligence, rather it involved the way I processed the information. Feynman describes being able to count to 60 seconds while counting lines of type at the same time. He then goes on to describe how a friend of his could count to a minute but also speak while doing so. Feynman couldn't do this since he was actually counting the seconds in his head while the other guy was visualizing a ticking clock, allowing him to approach the experiment in a completely different way.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is the fact that people can have very unique ways of perceiving the world around them, it's just a matter of finding the most efficient path.

Hmm I just realized something. Once I took a thermodynamics exam that involved deriving some equation. We were supposed to use derivatives. People were already having problems with it so the TA proctoring even told us "You have to use derivatives." Which I knew, but my problem was that I couldn't for the life of me remember certain necessary properties of derivatives. So instead I figured out some way to do the problem without them.

My exam came back with this written on it: " -50 I don't know if this is right. If you can explain it to me I'll give you back the points."
Except there was a line crossing out that part and next to it he wrote "This seems to be correct. This is amazing I did not know it could be done this way please come work for me."

I was like "lol, wtf" because (1) I only did it because I was too stupid to remember simple calculus; and (2) the prof was already kinda a nutcase in the first place.
But I think I understand the sentiment now.
So I don't know what that counts as -- a simultaneous high AND low of intelligence?


Overall themes here: Be dumb so you can be smart. Don't be too smart because you'll end up being dumb. BE ALL THAT YOU CAN BE. but not more than you can be. everyone is a special snowflake.

 

[Stylo]

I am extremely intelligent. I would get proof but I'm too chronically obese to move out of my chair and on the way I might get distracted by bright colours or something relatively shiny.

 

[Unfocused]

However, I would be reluctant to try any kind of brain-enhancing thing, because the way I see it, my brain has gotten me this far through life pretty successfully, and I wouldn't want to **** around with that...I mean, who knows what could happen....

You'd brick your brain and lose your warranty.

EDIT: BTW, I just searched "mensa iq test" to do one of those online, out of curiosity. Clicked the first result, not Mensa-related but whatever, spent 20-30 minutes doing the test and at the end was asked to send a text somewhere to receive my score. Text price ~10 dollars. I didn't send it of course, but I got "scammed" like a noob anyway :|

 

[Danimal]

To be honest, I liked Banimal much better than this new persona. I mean, I don't find anything really wrong with it, but its a bit repetitious, which makes it tiresome. I think he just needs time to flush it out and try and broaden it's repertoire.

I lack the moderative powers to be Banimal. Otherwise I'd happy oblige.

 

[Moto]

I've never had my IQ tested. I don't suppose it's that high...I can never follow the plots of films (Inception was a total nightmare for me) and I can't read anything that doesn't have a relatively linear plot and likeable characters, because otherwise I get confused and lose interest.

I'm sort of the same way. I took a film class a few years ago since it satisfied a general requirement. We watched a few artsy films and I couldn't follow them at all. Also, I often have trouble keeping track of character's names, although this is sometimes the movie's fault. What you said about linear plots applies to games for me as well, as I really don't care for open-ended games with more than one ending. This must be why I like the Half-Life series so much. It's linear, but it tells a good, focused story and you know that what you experienced is canon.

 

[Raziaar]

I consider myself intelligent but I have somewhat of a reading disability I think. Oftentimes I find myself having to reread a paragraph in a book(non-fiction as I haven't read a fictional book since 2002) repeatedly again and again and again. In addition to that I read considerably slow compared to other people.

 

[dfc05]

^I do that all the time. I think for me it's just a lack of focus. I'll be distracted or think about something other than what I'm reading. If it's interesting enough it's ok. I think the worst were history textbooks -- up through sophomore or junior year of high school, I actually used to read entire textbooks for class -- biology, history, most anything aside from math. If it was assigned, I'd stay up til midnight or however late was necessary and read it. Then I started to drop the science textbooks. And then just skimming the history books. In college, aside from government class, I didn't read anything (but managed a 4.0 through... sheer willpower? fortune smiling down? I don't even know).

 

[evil^milk]

I have a lot of moments where I feel really STUPID.
Not a lot where I feel "enlightened", except perhaps when I'm dreaming about solving homework problems. Then I wake up and I'm like "that didn't make any sense at all!"

Anyhow, I'm not sure I'd always want to feel like that. Believing that things are all amazing and wonderful and interconnected and living under that delusion doesn't actually make it so. There's a lot to be said for accomplishing things while unenlightened. I was reading something written by a PhD graduate that said something to the effect of, "One day, I realized I was never going to be a "genius" and things weren't going to suddenly click into place. But I knew that I could work hard and be dedicated. So I did that."


The best bet is to be smart enough to pass but not smart enough to go to grad school. Bizarrely, my best friends in college were slackers and made C's but now they are making tons of money.


Hmm I just realized something. Once I took a thermodynamics exam that involved deriving some equation. We were supposed to use derivatives. People were already having problems with it so the TA proctoring even told us "You have to use derivatives." Which I knew, but my problem was that I couldn't for the life of me remember certain necessary properties of derivatives. So instead I figured out some way to do the problem without them.

My exam came back with this written on it: " -50 I don't know if this is right. If you can explain it to me I'll give you back the points."
Except there was a line crossing out that part and next to it he wrote "This seems to be correct. This is amazing I did not know it could be done this way please come work for me."

I was like "lol, wtf" because (1) I only did it because I was too stupid to remember simple calculus; and (2) the prof was already kinda a nutcase in the first place.
But I think I understand the sentiment now.
So I don't know what that counts as -- a simultaneous high AND low of intelligence?


Overall themes here: Be dumb so you can be smart. Don't be too smart because you'll end up being dumb. BE ALL THAT YOU CAN BE. but not more than you can be. everyone is a special snowflake.

I don't look of it in terms of a delusion. For all I know about how chemical processes in the brain work, you're probably right about it being a delusion though. However, I don't want to make it seem like its a romanticized mood in which magical powers of intelligence are suddenly conferred to me. It might not be that I'm more intelligent at all, but rather certain obstructive pathways in my mind - also known as bad habits, negative monologues, and a pattern of operating through preferred "algorithms" to solve everyday problems, i.e. habits - these obstructive pathways become cleared so as to allow the brain to communicate with itself more effectively AND efficiently, resulting in what may appear as intelligence, but is in reality a more cooperative brain whose results in the real world reflect creative and unified thought.

In the state of unenlightened normality, I've had my achievements - top grades, good ideas, job offers when I least expected them. I have aptitudes for math and science, but like Sheepo I'm normally incredibly dumb in common sense and communication skills. Throughout a job i had as a math tutor you wouldn't believe how much I sucked at getting along with my coworkers, but now I realize that a mass of imaginary problems in my head was obstructing higher thought. And much of these problems stemmed from a crippled self-image and woooooooh why should I bore you with this. The thing is, that after a while, things DO fall into place and they are a lot more simple than you might imagine. You may know the answers now but not fully comprehend them until later.

Anyway, Working hard and being dedicated are things that are absolutely required in people who look for their own answers. It's like, if you want to build something, you'll need your hands (your hands being dedication and working hard. I've got to disagree with the PhD grad you quoted who said that things weren't suddenly going to fall into place. I know this is merely anecdotal, but my experience has been otherwise. I don't know that I'm more intelligent by having exerpiences that could be thought of as delusions, but I sure as hell am a lot more creative and able to find relationship through abstraction.

Anyway, about that equation you solved without calculus - that's what defines creativity. It's solving problems, or creating problems and solving them in unusual ways. If you couldn't remember some procedure with derivatives, you aren't stupid - you just forgot the procedure. About your prof being a nutcase? That might be true, but if he gives you attention because of your unusual way to solve things then it can only be a good thing.

I've never had my IQ tested. I don't suppose it's that high...I can never follow the plots of films (Inception was a total nightmare for me) and I can't read anything that doesn't have a relatively linear plot and likeable characters, because otherwise I get confused and lose interest.

However, I would be reluctant to try any kind of brain-enhancing thing, because the way I see it, my brain has gotten me this far through life pretty successfully, and I wouldn't want to **** around with that...I mean, who knows what could happen....

Strangely, I'm exactly the same way with films. All the time. What's even more strange is that I CAN follow plots and find many alternate themes in movies while in this elusive state. But anyway, I do respect your stance on not wanting to mess around with drugs. I only mess with drugs because I know that the risk is minimal and the advantages are great in relation to the amount of risk; on the other hand, it is something to be not very highly looked upon if you are at the mercy of drugs for cheap thrills - i.e. becoming some form of stoner. If you're a drug user, then you must be a responsible drug user - with drugs, like any other thing that gets you naturally high, whether it is science or math or art, you open a window to an alternate perspective through which you can derive many, many thoughts that enable you to find your own answers to life - or to ask questions that you can save for posterity.

 

[dfc05]

Ah ok, that makes sense. If you're actually seeing real accomplishments, then it's a good thing. There is that story of the guy who figured out the structure of benzene. He said he went to sleep one night and saw a snake eating its tail, and then he woke up and realized, "Benzene is a ring!" But his story got more and more elaborate over time, so maybe he was just making crap up and laughing at the rest of us.

I'd thought you were speaking more on the lines of one of my friends who was on certain substances while listening to certain music. And thought he saw The Universe. And then could never listen to that music again because it would never be as good. I'm just like "The music's the same man, it's still the same."

Also he couldn't remember what The Universe looked like afterwards.

So aside from that hour or whatever, there was no real gain.


and re: things clicking in place -- my advisor did mention something about that once, that after a while things fall into place because you've become smarter and you can relate concepts to each other. So you're right, there is some merit to that.

 

[Robbo]

I consider myself intelligent but I have somewhat of a reading disability I think. Oftentimes I find myself having to reread a paragraph in a book(non-fiction as I haven't read a fictional book since 2002) repeatedly again and again and again. In addition to that I read considerably slow compared to other people.

I do that all the time, sometimes I read like 3 pages then realise that while my eyes were moving over the words I was thinking about something completely different. Maybe you're just bored?

 

[Sheepo]

Yeah, I consider myself a pretty good reader, slow but very focused, and I still find myself doing that when there's something else on my mind. I hear people complain about that all the time.

 

[Mirage]

I just started taking adderall recently, and bizarrely enough I can actually sleep better now. I also had no idea how excessively active my mind was, and now things are quieter and I can think more quickly. I don't think drugs can make you more intelligent, but they can make your brain more efficient, thus giving the illusion of greater intelligence.

Interesting! adderall had the same effect on me, sleep-wise I mean. I've been thinking recently of getting back on it (I can get a prescription easily enough).

Since someone brought up IQ scores, supposedly, high IQs in general correlate with mental stability, forgot where I read that. A psych (as well as math teacher) claimed I was a "very intelligent person." To this day, I still don't believe it. I've been considering taking an officially administered IQ test, to prove or disprove that, as also they are great predictors of academic potential. The only thing I can lay claim to is a high reading comprehension skill, though, as I have tested quite high in that category multiple times on official tests (SAT, ACT, college placement tests).

Anyway, I've known two intellectual pot heads in my day (one noticeably smarter than the other, IMO). Does weed help develop intelligence? Perhaps with certain genetic susceptibilities. Then again, my knowledge of general science is crap and that is most likely a retarded argument.

 

[Naudian]

I honestly believe that the majority of people are born "very intelligent." That way I can blame my parents and society for my stupidity!

I'm not very good at translating my thoughts into language, which makes it hard to write the way I want and even harder to clearly speak my mind. I just suck at using my vocabulary. It's probably the number one thing I want to improve.

I haven't taken an IQ test in a while but I used to get between 120-130.

I don't really have moments of clarity or anything like that. All I can say is the more I'm interested in something the better my brain functions in general.

 

[Raziaar]

I do that all the time, sometimes I read like 3 pages then realise that while my eyes were moving over the words I was thinking about something completely different. Maybe you're just bored?

Could be. It's very dry material. It's knowledge I want to know, but it's definitely not page turner stuff.

But even when I did read fictional books I'd still have the same problem, and I don't think I was bored. I do think my mind wanders though, but not due to boredom.