Dad sells Guitar hero 3 for $9000 after son caught smoking pot

[TechnoHippyChic]

It's probably more the story jacking it up...

 

[Cheomesh]

Hold on a sec, Seppo.

It's the uninformed and irrational hatred of drugs by people like veg and cheo-meh that is driving their opinion of this. It's not "wow, that's a great parenty thing to do, I'll have to remember that for when I have kids." It's more like "yeah! owned the dirty little pothead!"...

Actually I only commented on Sterns apparently intolerance for any speculative parenting style. Please read the past pages. I made no references to how stupid drugs are.

Who on earth are you? Obviously someone who has license to throw the weight around, or perhaps not.

Someone reacting to Sterns explosion all over the past couple pages. I wonder if he got an infraction as well? Also, who are you?

 

[Raziaar]

the obviousness of the issue in question makes victory a no brainer: opinions dont mean much without something to back it up ..not all opinions are equal ..this should be self evident

You haven't backed up anything to support your claim. You only offer an opinion. I ask for the facts you said you have, and you can't even provide me with any facts. Only some vague comment that I'm supposed to know the facts from all your past posts. Which I might add contain nothing.

Until you can provide those facts stating that people without kids can't have sound, intelligent opinions on how children can be raised properly, this isn't a debate. It's you throwing out an opinion about opinions, which ultimately leads nowhere, and lends no facts to support your claim.

I will gladly continue talking to you about this, until the end of time. So if you would like to continue doing that, please indicate as such. The only reason i stopped posting, is because obviously you cannot provide those facts to bolster your claims other than opinions you yourself have, and I feel that neither of us wants to continue on with this when it will undoubtedly lead nowhere.


Fun Analogy:

NASA obviously couldn't have landed on the moon without previously having experience landing on the moon, because there was no way for them to understand the concepts, safe procedure, and execution that would be needed to land on the moon. In light of this discovery, NASA indeed has never landed on the moon as the conspiracy theorists have theorized all along.

 

[Vegeta897]

i've already answered it, it's there, have another look

..and of course you're done, you hit a wall when I asked you to justify your position

That is not an answer. It's you suddenly throwing in a new mechanic into your theory. "Good parent" vs. "Bad parent" Suddenly everything's complicated. Fancy how that works. And like I said, you dont even know the guy, what makes you think you're a better parent than him and automatically more right?

And no, no walls were hit. I don't give a shit about justifying my opinion. That was never what this argument was about. I think it's pretty clear that my opinion is not an outrageous one. The fact that it is shared by others makes it valid.

 

[CptStern]

You haven't backed up anything to support your claim. You only offer an opinion. I ask for the facts you said you have, and you can't even provide me with any facts. Only some vague comment that I'm supposed to know the facts from all your past posts. Which I might add contain nothing.

what? for the love of god man it's like you took a few words threw them up in the air and wrote down what it spelt out ..what facts? what? where? how and when??? I said I usually support my facts with evidence, it doesnt at the least refer to the topic of this thread but rather as a response to what you said:

Just like you can have an opinion on foreign wars and foreign policy without having a career in politics

i responded with:

my "opinions" are backed with facts

I was specifically addressing "Just like you can have an opinion on foreign wars and foreign policy" ..my opinions on foreign wars/policy are backed with facts (you know, quotes, links to various articles, diagrams, maps etc etc etc) ..you either forgot what we were talking about or you purposefully steered it this way because that was one of the few points you could address

Until you can provide those facts stating that people without kids can't have sound, intelligent opinions on how children can be raised properly, this isn't a debate.

please point out where I said this ..you could be of the opinion that children shouldnt eat poison ..is it a valid statement? yes, yes it is, does it show you have insight into parenting ..no ..so again explain to me where you draw your insight from? remember I can read aviation articles till I'm blue in the face, doesnt mean I can build an airplane

It's you throwing out an opinion about opinions, which ultimately leads nowhere, and lends no facts to support your claim.

I will gladly continue talking to you about this, until the end of time. So if you would like to continue doing that, please indicate as such.

/scratches head ....what?

The only reason i stopped posting, is because obviously you cannot provide those facts to bolster your claims other than opinions you yourself have, and I feel that neither of us wants to continue on with this when it will undoubtedly lead nowhere.

WHAT FACTS?!!!

Fun Analogy:

NASA obviously couldn't have landed on the moon without previously having experience landing on the moon, because there was no way for them to understand the concepts, safe procedure, and execution that would be needed to land on the moon. In light of this discovery, NASA indeed has never landed on the moon as the conspiracy theorists have theorized all along.

but they wouldnt assign someone the position of Chief Landing on the Moon Guy to someone who just spent the night at a HOLIDAY INN FFS!!! your analogy is meaningless

That is not an answer.

i'm sorry it's not the answer you were looking for, I will not change my pov to accomodate you or anyone else

It's you suddenly throwing in a new mechanic into your theory. "Good parent" vs. "Bad parent" Suddenly everything's complicated. Fancy how that works.

what the hell are you talking about? his experiences raising a child could be bad or good ..how is that not valid? unless you have the written history of every single event in which he had to use parenting skill your point is meaningless because there's nothing to compare it to except this one event ..and judging for the ONE event, he's a bad parent ..or he made the wrong choice in disciplining his son because it is completely ineffective

And like I said, you dont even know the guy, what makes you think you're a better parent than him and automatically more right?

point out where I said this ..all I said was that wouldnt have humiliated my son because that teaches the child NOTHING ..this "opinion" is gathered from 4 years of being a parent of 2 kids and 7 years of being a teacher to over 100 adults and children ..where did you get your insight into parenting from that you automatically assume that I am wrong ..I will not let you weasel your way out of this question, answer directly

And no, no walls were hit. I don't give a shit about justifying my opinion. That was never what this argument was about.

ummm yes it is, despite your weak protestations to the contrary this is ALL about justifying opinion ..you seem of the opinion that you enough about parenting to see my assessment of the situation to be wrong ..I am asking you to provide reasoning (which you cant do) and further to provide where you gained this insight into parenting because it is NOT from experience ..which you still have been unable to do

I think it's pretty clear that my opinion is not an outrageous one. The fact that it is shared by others makes it valid.

who are these "others" ..use specific names so that I may ask them what insight into parenting drew them to that conclusion ...also I can easily point out that many people agreeing on something does not make it in any way valid

 

[Raziaar]

what? for the love of god man it's like you took a few words threw them up in the air and wrote down what it spelt out ..what facts? what? where? how and when??? I said I usually support my facts with evidence, it doesnt at the least refer to the topic of this thread but rather as a response to what you said:

i responded with:

I was specifically addressing "Just like you can have an opinion on foreign wars and foreign policy" ..my opinions on foreign wars/policy are backed with facts (you know, quotes, links to various articles, diagrams, maps etc etc etc) ..you either forgot what we were talking about or you purposefully steered it this way because that was one of the few points you could address

please point out where I said this ..you could be of the opinion that children shouldnt eat poison ..is it a valid statement? yes, yes it is, does it show you have insight into parenting ..no ..so again explain to me where you draw your insight from? remember I can read aviation articles till I'm blue in the face, doesnt mean I can build an airplane

/scratches head ....what?

WHAT FACTS?!!!

but they wouldnt assign someone the position of Chief Landing on the Moon Guy to someone who just spent the night at a HOLIDAY INN FFS!!! your analogy is meaningless

Well, I apologize. I assumed when you said you have facts to back up your opinions, you were talking about this thread.

It's still just a case of opinion about opinions, which cannot be argued because every opinion is a valid one. Some people have more credibility that can enhance their opinions, others less. You cannot claim to know the credibility of a person unless you know the full background of that person and their ability to make rational arguments and judgments about a subject matter.

but they wouldnt assign someone the position of Chief Landing on the Moon Guy to someone who just spent the night at a HOLIDAY INN FFS!!! your analogy is meaningless

You like those commercials too?

And of course you wouldn't. Parenting isn't space exploration. Anybody can be a parent, and anybody can have parental experience after being a parent. Some people are naturally better parents than others, based on their knowledge gained before they were a parent, on proper ways to raise their kids, treat their children, and nurture them. Their experience was then matured by cause and effect situations derived by the fact they are now a parent.

It doesn't change the fact that they had good ideas before that baby actually popped out. Some might be able to be applied, others morphed and even some discarded. Parenting is a situation where you can apply knowledge and common sense that you had well before you were a father or mother. Even if things are nullified due to changing circumstances and situations that you were not prepared for.

 

[CptStern]

Well, I apologize. I assumed when you said you have facts to back up your opinions, you were talking about this thread.

we wasted 3 pages on it

It's still just a case of opinion about opinions, which cannot be argued because every opinion is a valid one.

are you out of your mind? some person is of the opinion that god created the heavens and earth in 6 days ..am I supposed to accept that as a valid point just because it's an opinion? that's crazy talk

Some people have more credibility that can enhance their opinions, others less.

yes, it doesnt mean that those without backing who go on nothing except gut instinct is at all valid ..the internets is thick with people with unsubstantiated opinions ..if you press them on any issue they crumble because they have nothing to back their opinions with except sheer stubborness

You cannot claim to know the credibility of a person unless you know the full background of that person and their ability to make rational arguments and judgments about a subject matter.

ok ...so when did I claim someoen was credible except in the case of you two? you're opinions are not credible ..not when it comes to parenting just like my opinions are not valid on quantum physics

You like those commercials too?

it illustrated my point quite nicely ..so yes

And of course you wouldn't. Parenting isn't space exploration.

parenting makes space exploration like the most meaningless experience possible only in the sense that without good parenting there probably would have been a space program ..speculative conjecture to be sure but it's probably true to some extent ...in any event the analogy still stands ..i wouldnt hand my kids over to someone who learned what he knows from watching Everyone Loves Raymond or baby sitting the neighbours dog

Anybody can be a parent, and anybody can have parental experience after being a parent. Some people are naturally better parents than others

which is what i have been saying all along

based on their knowledge gained before they were a parent

no, absolutely not ..it's not something you learn from a book, it's almost all through experience because it changes every second of the day ..there are no bullet list of "what to do in case of .." nothing that isnt generalised

on proper ways to raise their kids, treat their children, and nurture them. Their experience was then matured by cause and effect situations derived by the fact they are now a parent.

again no, it's all through experience ..but good parenting starts from very young ..for the parents ..it's part how you were raised, it's part your morality base, it's part of what you learned from your culture ..but coping strategies, negotiating tactics, effective disciplining is almost always learned through hands on ..even saying so there are times when I look at my wife and say "what do I do?" ..how can someone who doesnt have a minute of parenting answer that question let alone get to the position where you cant answer that question?

It doesn't change the fact that they had good ideas before that baby actually popped out.

ask any parent ..you can pretty much throw out the manuals you purchased before the baby was born ..sure they're ok as general guidelines but unless the parent is also learning child psychology there is no way they will be well equipped with reading articles alone

Some might be able to be applied, others morphed and even some discarded. Parenting is a situation where you can apply knowledge and common sense that you had well before you were a father or mother. Even if things are nullified due to changing circumstances and situations that you were not prepared for.

which is what UI have been saying; your moral centre tempers what you will do but it's often at conflict with what you SHOULD be doing ..look it's everyone's gut reaction to pick up a crying baby ..but did you know that's the wrong thing to do? look up ferberizing ..logic tells you, nay screams at you that you're not doing the right thing but after it's said and done it actually works and the children are happier/better adjusted for it ..you cannot learn that from a book ..sure you can read about it but it's entirely different when you actually have to follow through

 

[Raziaar]

we wasted 3 pages on it

Then let's not waste another on it, eh? Enough with the wall of text. We're just rehashing what we're saying, not getting anywhere.

are you out of your mind? some person is of the opinion that god created the heavens and earth in 6 days ..am I supposed to accept that as a valid point just because it's an opinion? that's crazy talk

No. It's not crazy talk. Every person is entitled to their own opinion, and every opinion is valid. If you want to nullify it regarding a particular situation, you put it up against a battery of facts. When you force the individual to translate their opinions into facts to counter the facts you have provided, and they cannot, that's when their argument is invalid. Do you even know what an opinion is by definition?

We're not dealing with facts here however since nobody has provided facts to back up their arguments. It's a discussion of opinions, and always has been throughout this argument.

..look it's everyone's gut reaction to pick up a crying baby ..but did you know that's the wrong thing to do? look up ferberizing ..logic tells you, nay screams at you that you're not doing the right thing but after it's said and done it actually works and the children are happier/better adjusted for it ..you cannot learn that from a book ..sure you can read about it but it's entirely different when you actually have to follow through

Umm... I already knew this. Through observation, experience as my parents have applied it to me, and from things I have read.

Anyways. I conveniently ignored the rest of your wall of text, because responding will only further this pointless discussion. Let's just agree to disagree, and be done with it.

 

[DrDevin]

This story is a good lesson.

Now the child has learned something; he is an idiot for doing drugs. Why sell dope, when there is far more money in peddling Guitar Hero?

Myself? I'd brand the father an ideal parent.

 

[Vegeta897]

no, absolutely not ..it's not something you learn from a book

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n_9?ie=UTF8&rs=20&rh=n%3A1000%2Cn%3A20%2Cn%3A11401

Oh look, nearly 32,000 books on raising children on Amazon.com alone. I suppose those are all useless and it's a bloody miracle that they're still being sold. It's all trash right? Once again Stern you're using your own single experience as a parent as if all parenting experiences are exactly like yours. You're not an expert. What may be true for you isn't true for others. Get that through your head.

where did you get your insight into parenting from that you automatically assume that I am wrong ..I will not let you weasel your way out of this question, answer directly

I never said you were wrong. And no point did I attempt to invalidate your opinion as you have mine. I have the ability to completely respect other people's opinions. Maybe you could learn a thing or two.

and judging for the ONE event, he's a bad parent

GG judging his parenting skills based on one event. Seriously, did you intend on sounding stupid at this part? Judging someone on one event. Judging someone on one event. Does that sound right at all to you? No, it's ridiculous. this guy could be father of the ****ing year for all you know. The fact is, you don't have proof that he's a bad parent, so if I share his opinion, then it's not invalid just because I'm not a parent myself.

i'm sorry it's not the answer you were looking for, I will not change my pov to accomodate you or anyone else

What? No, it wasn't the "wrong" answer. It wasn't an answer at all. Read more carefully. You're not addressing my point. This has nothing to do with POV. We're talking basic logic work here.

ummm yes it is, despite your weak protestations to the contrary this is ALL about justifying opinion

Sorry for misleading you then. Like I said I don't give a shit about validating something you're so highly convinced is invalid. If you do give a shit, keep on talking to yourself and I'll be over there not caring. But if you want to keep talking about this other interesting stuff, I'll stick around with you.

BTW I'm starting to enjoy this. This really has nothing to do with hard feelings towards you Stern. I'd have a drink with you if we ever finish. I'm enjoying how large this debate is getting.

 

[CptStern]

Umm... I already knew this. Through observation, experience as my parents have applied it to me

lol, you must have an outstanding memory recall cuz ..

The technique is targeted at infants over 6 months of age.

my son doesnt remember what happened when he was two but you remember when you were an infant? ...brief memory recall is believable but to remember someone using a parenting technique

Anyways. I conveniently ignored the rest of your wall of text, because responding will only further this pointless discussion. Let's just agree to disagree, and be done with it.

that's the best I can hope for I guess

 

[Raziaar]

lol, you must have an outstanding memory recall cuz ..


my son doesnt remember what happened when he was two but you remember when you were an infant? ...brief memory recall is believable but to remember someone using a parenting technique

Nope. This technique works on people of older age as well. It's not just applicable to infants. I'm not talking about the Ferber method in particular, concerning infants and getting them to sleep on their own.

I'm talking about the idea of teaching young children to cope with things on their own, to develop a sense of independence and confidence, and not let them always expect you to rush and coddle them at every little beck and call which breeds a sort of dependency that can unhealthily transfer on as they get older.

Might not technically be the same, but I consider it to be somewhat.

I don't remember anything from younger than six years of age. But I do distinctly remember situations like the above in which I described.

 

[Fliko]

are you out of your mind? some person is of the opinion that god created the heavens and earth in 6 days ..am I supposed to accept that as a valid point just because it's an opinion? that's crazy talk

My opinion is that anyone's opinion is valid, and my fact is the dictionary.

Opinion
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
3. the formal expression of a professional judgment: to ask for a second medical opinion.
4. Law. the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case.
5. a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.: to forfeit someone's good opinion.
6. a favorable estimate; esteem: I haven't much of an opinion of him.

 

[Azner]

Gosh stern.

Cant you just be wrong FOR ONCE?

Gosh the stubbornness.

 

[Qonfused]

Gosh stern.

Cant you just be wrong FOR ONCE?

Gosh the stubbornness.

Hahahaha, Stern backing down from an argument? You must be joking.

 

[Azner]

Gosh screw it. This is pointless. Stern loses anyway.

 

[Krynn72]

Gosh.

 

[CptStern]

My opinion is that anyone's opinion is valid, and my fact is the dictionary.

umm the dictionary agrees with me:

a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

opinion =/= fact, uninformed opinion even less so


also
#3 supports what I'm saying ..

the formal expression of a professional judgment

you arrive at professionalism or the knowing of a specific issue/career/event or what have you through experience therefore a professional judgement hinges exclusively on the depth of knowledge exhibited by the person making the judgement .. leading one to easily conclude that opinion is relative to experience or professionalism relative to the specific issue


I'll get to the trolls if I can bother to be bothered enough to bother writing a bothered response

 

[Qonfused]

Quoting the dictionary is pointless in a forum argument anyway. The defense will always weasel out by using some obscure definition that is far from what the person actually meant or twist the words around. And he knows this, but decides to play that card anyway. It's textbook, really. It's so predicable, I usually never bother; as predicable as Stern side stepping sections of posts that contain relevant text, often cornering him in a position to skip past it as if it was never written. It's textbook, really.

And yeah, Stern, call me a troll. It's fine. I'm used to it. Hell, I think I like it. I just love poking you with a stick from over here; shouting at you without actually getting in the heat of the battle. It's entertaining and it takes the least amount of time, compared to diving head first into a heated forum battle, a meeting of the minds... or fingers. I'll never understand why you continue to defile threads, even your own, of this inane bullshit you call posting. Multi-quote "battles" that always end up going on for pages, completely raping any chance of a thread to mature and develop into any sort of meaning, and never reach a conclusion. I don't understand how your "wife" can stand it. Unless you get all of your anger out here. Then I could understand. Maybe.

 

[CptStern]

such as ....?

 

[Raziaar]

umm the dictionary agrees with me:



opinion =/= fact, uninformed opinion even less so

I already said this earlier.

No. It's not crazy talk. Every person is entitled to their own opinion, and every opinion is valid. If you want to nullify it regarding a particular situation, you put it up against a battery of facts. When you force the individual to translate their opinions into facts to counter the facts you have provided, and they cannot, that's when their argument is invalid. Do you even know what an opinion is by definition?

 

[CptStern]

I already said this earlier.

perhaps you should have pointed that out to Fliko

and incidentily you agree with my point: that opinion is relative to knowledge, which is learned through experience thereby enforcing the idea that first hand experience trumps second hand every single time ..bringing this right back to where we started except in the end you agree with me that my experience as a parent automatically makes my opinion morevalid than a lay person. My initial statements still stand

 

[Qonfused]

such as ....?

And also, how would you know raising a child is the same as raising a teen if you've never raised a teen.

Raising a child isn't any where near close to raising a teen.

Don't count on me contributing anything worthwhile, though, because I know where it's going to go: right down the shithole along with this thread.

 

[Raziaar]

perhaps you should have pointed that out to Fliko

Why? He's not in disagreement with it.

All opinions are valid.
Opinions are not facts.
Facts can support opinions.
Opinions can be falsified when opposed with facts.

 

[Fliko]

Raising a child isn't any where near close to raising a teen.

Agreed, and easily said by mostly every parent I've talked too.
"Raising a teenager is so much different then raising a child."
Probably due to major changes encountered.

And Stern, the point of saying I used the dictionary as a fact to support my opinion was to try locking you into a corner of which you can't deny, but yet again you've denied it. It's pointless from here on out to even bother argueing at a point with you if you point your finger and scream "WRONG WRONG WRONG!"

..my opinions on foreign wars/policy are backed with facts (you know, quotes, links to various articles, diagrams, maps etc etc etc)

this "opinion" is gathered from 4 years of being a parent of 2 kids and 7 years of being a teacher to over 100 adults and children

And being a teacher teaches you jack about being a parent. Raising 2 kids over 4 years? Thats barely the start of parenting...

 

[Vegeta897]

Despite the overwhelming majority of people who agree with Raziaar and I in this, and the completely lack of agreement with Stern, I'm pretty sure the only way Stern would back down is if someone who we know is a good parent of a teenager came in here and said "Stern, your opinion is not the only valid one. Vegeta's is as well"

But I don't see that happening, unfortunately.

that opinion is relative to knowledge, which is learned through experience

Experience is not completely necessary. I could read a book on the history of WW2 and have several valid opinions about it.

The fact that you have experience doesn't make your opinion automatically more right, and everyone elses invalid. I've said this over and over and I've just drawn out the logic here. I don't know why you can't understand it.

 

[bvasgm]

Seriously dude, just let it go...

 

[Azner]

and incidentily you agree with my point:

Thats because you did go against your original point which is found in page 2-3.

Unless you already went against it somewhere.

 

[Krynn72]

Samon/Darkside should make a decree that prevents both Raziaar and Vegeta from posting within 15 posts of a Cpt Stern post.

 

[Vegeta897]

Thread:

 

[Azner]

Am i the walking thingy?

 

[Raziaar]

Samon/Darkside should make a decree that prevents both Raziaar and Vegeta from posting within 15 posts of a Cpt Stern post.

Man. I'll have no place to post. <sniffs>

 

[Krynn72]

Man. I'll have no place to post. <sniffs>

It'll work both ways. You just have to be quick!

 

[Azner]

We could divide the forum in two. One for Razman and Friends. and the other for Stern.

 

[Raziaar]

It'll work both ways. You just have to be quick!

<devises a posting regimen comprised of strict discipline and swift, brutal tactics>

We could divide the forum in two. One for Razman and Friends. and the other for Stern.

Oh come on. Heh, I love you too, but this isn't really a popularity contest. I'd probably lose that one to CptStern anyways, by a large margin.

It's not about Stern, it's about what he's saying, and the topic in general.

 

[Seppo]

Haha I actually laughed out loud at vegeta's picture

it's not that funny alone, but given the context.... damn hilarious

 

[Naph]

"Mummy, why is Daddy on the computer all the time?"

"Well, he's using the time he has with you, on other children."

That's really my view on this thread.

 

[Saltpeter]

Yahtzee did a film on Guit Hero III last week.

Oh wait, this so totally out of context with this thread. Sorry.

 

[Raziaar]

Yahtzee did a film on Guit Hero III last week.

Oh wait, this so totally out of context with this thread. Sorry.

Yeah man, we're talking about parental values and skills in this thread. Why the **** are you talking about some stupid guitar hero 3 game? Get the hell out of here!

LOL

 

[Pulse]

Vegeta, I lol'd my socks off.