Damn you, religion!

[Darkside55]

So the argument's validity decreases with the number of times it's been used? Interesting, I didn't know that. The argument precedes Dawkins by the way.

Popularized by Dawkins.

Also, it doesn't decrease validity, but I find it funny that those specific three things, the mythical deities and the teapot you can't see, have become a cornerstone of the atheist argument. I'm guilty of using them myself, but damn, it's time for some new material. Tried and true gets stale and boring after you hear it a few times.

Also, in after facepalm.jpg.

 

[CyberPitz]

Ahh my first girlfriend had one of those, givin by her father. Needless to say, after 7 months, we were in the sack. Those things are great until you wear down her sexual barrier, then she's yours for the ravishing.

 

[Dinkleberry]

Do you reckon oral counts?

Looking back, I think my post was very pessimistic. Perhaps you could test the waters a little Thing is though, some girls (not sure how many, I've only heard one say it) think oral is more intimate than penetrative. Maybe work on giving her that pleasure first?

 

[Acepilotf14]

Look at how fast this thread grew.
The other threads are being ignored... so sad.

 

[MJ12]

You are completely confusing "mainstream" with "moderate". You do not have to be moderate to have your beliefs widely accepted. That's an erroneous myth. Fundamentalism is alive and well, and it's subscribed to by many across the globe.

Large majority are not fundamentalists, the large majority knows nothing about their faith, or cares enough to.

I do, because more often than not, the kind of god you believe in says a lot about you as a person and what you are willing to do.

FACT: Same sex marriage faces resistance across the country by primarily religious opposition.
FACT: Stem cell research has been denied federal funding on religious grounds.
FACT: Pseudoscience junk like intelligent design is being shoved into school systems primarily by religious creationists.
FACT: When Danish newspapers printed depictions of Mohammed, Muslims around the world rioted, boycotted Danish goods, vandalized embassies, and even killed people in protest.

Once again, people are just people. There's good and theirs bad, you can't take them all and clump them into a group and say "you're bad".

I might as well just say "There's a lot crime commited by black people in my city, so all black people must be theives."

If most people were happy-go-lucky, peaceful, unobtrusive moderates like you seem to think they are, then why does this stuff happen and continue to happen?.

I did't say everyone is all nice and dandy. I said people should chillax, except people, and become less extreme.
But you clumping religious people all into one group seems to be pretty convienient to you because your agnostic, or an athiest.

I might as well just say something like "Athiests only care about thier own survival, they are a bunch of angry goth teens trying to be different from the majority"
-but that wouldn't be fair to the athiests who are not like that, now would it?

I can't believe you have the audacity to just group people like that, I don't believe in religion, I am agnostic, and even I understand both sides.

There's going to be extreme fractions for every group, the fact is most Muslims are not crazy yahoo's. It's only what the news shows you, they never show the people who are like "get me the **** out of this country, I am sick of these loonies"
So like an ignorant sloth watching your tv we all say "KILL ALL THE MUSLIMS, LET GOD SORT UM OUT!"

how convienient for everyone who is not Muslim?

Everything I listed both above and in my previous post go against treating others like people. They are very real and they are very prominent. There are people who take their religion very seriously, so much that they are more than willing to impose it upon others. Pretending that they don't exist or that they're some marginal, inconsequential slice of the theist pie gets you nowhere.

Taking a fraction of the pie, from what your high school teacher and the 6o clock news has taught you gets you no where either.

You can't be biased and just listen to only the parts you want to hear.

-This goes for every religion and belief

 

[Stigmata]

Large majority are not fundamentalists, the large majority knows nothing about their faith, or cares enough to.

You don't have to know your faith to be a fundamentalist. Any Christian can take two passages out of the Bible and start blathering on about how gay people should be gassed and that Katrina is God's wrath against a fag-loving country, and then not know the first thing about Genesis. It doesn't help that the Bible, at once, has to be "taken literally" yet is also "metaphorical".

Once again, people are just people. There's good and theirs bad, you can't take them all and clump them into a group and say "you're bad".

I might as well just say "There's a lot crime commited by black people in my city, so all black people must be theives."

The difference there is that high levels of black crime isn't caused by people simply being black, while religious oppression and hate crimes are a direct cause of religious extremism.

When a religious person kills a gay person for sinning, or going against the word of God, whatever, that crime is directly caused by Christianity. People ban gay marriage, and speak out against sex-ed programs and so forth, specifically because of the Bible. They make no effort to hide this fact.

When a black guy kills someone for stealing his car, then that's the reason the crime was committed. He was mad at the guy who stole his car, so he killed him. He just happens to be black.

I did't say everyone is all nice and dandy. I said people should chillax, except people, and become less extreme.
But you clumping religious people all into one group seems to be pretty convienient to you because your agnostic, or an athiest.

I might as well just say something like "Athiests only care about thier own survival, they are a bunch of angry goth teens trying to be different from the majority"
-but that wouldn't be fair to the athiests who are not like that, now would it?

I can't believe you have the audacity to just group people like that, I don't believe in religion, I am agnostic, and even I understand both sides.

There's going to be extreme fractions for every group, the fact is most Muslims are not crazy yahoo's. It's only what the news shows you, they never show the people who are like "get me the **** out of this country, I am sick of these loonies"
So like an ignorant sloth watching your tv we all say "KILL ALL THE MUSLIMS, LET GOD SORT UM OUT!"

how convienient for everyone who is not Muslim?

As far as anyone is aware, most Muslims are in fact "crazy yahoos". Their culture is so deeply entrenched in religious morality that Muslim nations have become majority-ruled extremist states. Literally millions of Muslims were calling out for the murder of that "anti-Mohammed" cartoonist and anyone from his country. That, right there, is a blatant sign of powerful, influential, and very dangerous religious extremism.

If 80% of America called for the murder of Dawkins for saying that the theory of Evolution is right, would you react the same way that you do to Muslim extremism?

I've found that far too many secularists have this irrational fear of criticizing any religion that isn't Christian. I think it's because a lot of us are comfortable with attacking Christian hypocrisy and their actions - we know how they act, we know how they'll react to us, and we know how to deal with a Christian-based religious debate. But bring in anyone who lives by the Torah or the Qu'ran, and we don't know anything. Their religions are superficially different, requiring different approaches, and railing against Judaism and other religious are hugely frowned upon in our poltically-correct Western society. Muslims and Jews are just as threatening to society as Christians, and we need to start recognizing that.

 

[Uriel]

People, have respect for someone's religion or beliefs. It goes for both sides. Showing the extreme distaste for either one runs rampant on this forum.

Don't be a dick, respect one another. If the girl doesn't want to sleep with you, respect that.

Of course this is internet forums. Plagued by social retards with nothing better to do but make fun of one's beliefs. The whole thing turns into a "OMFG CHRISTIANS WTF D:" or a "WTF AMERICANS OMFG" sooner or later, at least on this forum.

Kind of sick of it. You would show a heck of a lot more respect in real life.

Once again, quit being a dick.

 

[Absinthe]

Large majority are not fundamentalists, the large majority knows nothing about their faith, or cares enough to.

You don't need to be the majority for it to be mainstream. What are you going on about?

Once again, people are just people. There's good and theirs bad, you can't take them all and clump them into a group and say "you're bad".

I might as well just say "There's a lot crime commited by black people in my city, so all black people must be theives."

You are grossly mischaracterizing my argument and pulling a bait and switch. Stop it.

My argument was never that all religious people are evil. It has been that the actions and movements I've listed are products of adherence to religious dogma - religious fundamentalism. It therefore follows that religious fundamentalism must be popular among a large portion of the human population (aka mainstream) to gain any traction.

You either haven't understood a word I've been saying or you're deliberately making straw men. But don't misunderstand me. While I may not think all theists are evil, I do believe that they are all irrational when it comes to their belief in God.

I did't say everyone is all nice and dandy. I said people should chillax, except people, and become less extreme.
But you clumping religious people all into one group seems to be pretty convienient to you because your agnostic, or an athiest.

Point out exactly where I've done this.

I might as well just say something like "Athiests only care about thier own survival, they are a bunch of angry goth teens trying to be different from the majority"
-but that wouldn't be fair to the athiests who are not like that, now would it?

I can't believe you have the audacity to just group people like that, I don't believe in religion, I am agnostic, and even I understand both sides.

Indeed, that would not be fair. And thank Moses I never tried to make that kind of generalization in any of my posts thus far in this topic.

There's going to be extreme fractions for every group, the fact is most Muslims are not crazy yahoo's. It's only what the news shows you, they never show the people who are like "get me the **** out of this country, I am sick of these loonies"
So like an ignorant sloth watching your tv we all say "KILL ALL THE MUSLIMS, LET GOD SORT UM OUT!"

how convienient for everyone who is not Muslim?

Taking a fraction of the pie, from what your high school teacher and the 6o clock news has taught you gets you no where either.

You can't be biased and just listen to only the parts you want to hear.

-This goes for every religion and belief

Or - more likely, as well as corroborated by history and the sum total of knowledge we have of Islam currently - a large percentage of Muslims are deranged by their beliefs.

I have never argued that all theists are extremists. Since my first reply to you, I have addressed your assertion that fundamentalist ideals are marginal to the point of being inconsequential. I have countered this with real-world examples of popular examples of fundamentalism having far-reaching consequences with popular support. Subsequently, you then altered the entire premise of the debate into "But Absinthe, not everybody is fundamentalist!". Of course they're not.

But do you accept that fundamentalism is a mainstream brand of religion - much like moderation - or do you not?

 

[MJ12]

You don't have to know your faith to be a fundamentalist. Any Christian can take two passages out of the Bible and start blathering on about how gay people should be gassed and that Katrina is God's wrath against a fag-loving country, and then not know the first thing about Genesis. It doesn't help that the Bible, at once, has to be "taken literally" yet is also "metaphorical".

So? I could take Darwin's teachings, and become a little Hitler and say we need to filter out the weak.

Does that make Darwin's ideas bad, and all the people who follow them bad? No, it makes the crazy people bad

When a religious person kills a gay person for sinning, or going against the word of God, whatever, that crime is directly caused by Christianity. People ban gay marriage, and speak out against sex-ed programs and so forth, specifically because of the Bible. They make no effort to hide this fact.

Directly caused by Christianity, what a naive thing to say!

I can take a pencil and draw a pretty little picture with it, or I can take a pencil and stab someone in the ear?

Does that mean the murder was directly caused by pencils? No, it was caused my some **** who stabbed the dude with it

As far as anyone is aware, most Muslims are in fact "crazy yahoos". Their culture is so deeply entrenched in religious morality that Muslim nations have become majority-ruled extremist states. Literally millions of Muslims were calling out for the murder of that "anti-Mohammed" cartoonist and anyone from his country. That, right there, is a blatant sign of powerful, influential, and very dangerous religious extremism.

If 80% of America called for the murder of Dawkins for saying that the theory of Evolution is right, would you react the same way that you do to Muslim extremism?

I've found that far too many secularists have this irrational fear of criticizing any religion that isn't Christian. I think it's because a lot of us are comfortable with attacking Christian hypocrisy and their actions - we know how they act, we know how they'll react to us, and we know how to deal with a Christian-based religious debate. But bring in anyone who lives by the Torah or the Qu'ran, and we don't know anything. Their religions are superficially different, requiring different approaches, and railing against Judaism and other religious are hugely frowned upon in our poltically-correct Western society. Muslims and Jews are just as threatening to society as Christians, and we need to start recognizing that.

No, most of them are not extremists, that's just what the 6 o clock news shows you.

And no, there were not millions of people to called upon to kill Dawkins, there were quite a few, but not "millions".

And yes I understand the whole politically correct BS thing, and yeah there are loonies out there.

But to clump them all together and hate them all is like me saying all Priests rape little kids, so lets burn the church.

If you clump them all together, you're being just as extreme as the religious extremists are

 

[Uriel]

When will people learn?
Arguing on forums = utterly pointless

I found that out, because it will just continue FO EVA!

 

[Absinthe]

People, have respect for someone's religion or beliefs. It goes for both sides. Showing the extreme distaste for either one runs rampant on this forum.

Don't be a dick, respect one another. If the girl doesn't want to sleep with you, respect that.

Of course this is internet forums. Plagued by social retards with nothing better to do but make fun of one's beliefs. The whole thing turns into a "OMFG CHRISTIANS WTF D:" or a "WTF AMERICANS OMFG" sooner or later, at least on this forum.

Kind of sick of it. You would show a heck of a lot more respect in real life.

Once again, quit being a dick.

Don't get angry just because your faith don't make sense.

The only reason respect is shown in real life is because of the legitimate fear of getting hammered down on by politically correct dweebs who think it's "disrespectful" to rightfully point out how inane and moronic somebody's personal beliefs are. That's the kind of pussy-foot respect this world could do less with.

If people don't want to fuck, then fine. But if they're pledging abstinence because they think God doesn't want their holy holes defiled, then the extent of the respect that should be accorded is simply not raping them.

 

[Absinthe]

So? I could take Darwin's teachings, and become a little Hitler and say we need to filter out the weak.

Does that make Darwin's ideas bad, and all the people who follow them bad? No, it makes the crazy people bad

Darwin doesn't make moral statements or directives.

Holy texts do. You chose a really bad comparison.

Directly caused by Christianity, what a naive thing to say!

I can take a pencil and draw a pretty little picture with it, or I can take a pencil and stab someone in the ear?

Does that mean the murder was directly caused by pencils? No, it was caused my some **** who stabbed the dude with it

Pencils don't make moral statements or directives.

Holy texts do. You chose another really bad comparison.

No, most of them are not extremists, that's just what the 6 o clock news shows you.

And no, there were not millions of people to called upon to kill Dawkins, there were quite a few, but not "millions".

Here's your problem:

Millions of Muslims did call for the death of the Danish cartoonists. Admittedly, much of this was also stirred up by provocative imams dispensing misinformation (exaggerating the number of images for instance), but even so, that doesn't excuse the violent outbursts of anger.

And yes I understand the whole politically correct BS thing, and yeah there are loonies out there.

But to clump them all together and hate them all is like me saying all Priests rape little kids, so lets burn the church.

If you clump them all together, you're being just as extreme as the religious extremists are

And yet this was never about if all theists are evil.
This is about if fundamentalism is practiced by a significant portion of religious believers. The answer is a resounding "YES".

In any case, moderates who commit less crimes (or no crimes) and are less susceptible to violent outbursts - like much of the Muslim world was - are that way in spite of their religion. Basically, they're not following it properly. So the argument that the religions in question can also be used as forces for good is actually a pretty tough one to defend.

 

[<RJMC>]

just shake you fist at the sky saying
you:"dam you!"
god:"lol pwned"
you:"wha..?"
god:"oops"*sends a meteorite into the city*

 

[Asknoone]

You would show a heck of a lot more respect in real life.

I really never have.

People, have respect for someone's religion or beliefs.

What a waste of time that would be. "Hi. Everything about your faith sucks ****ing cock. It's stupid, and really, so are you. But I'll just go ahead and respect it anyway." Yeah, because that makes goddamned sense.

 

[Pulse]

just shake you fist at the sky saying
you:"dam you!"
god:"lol pwned"
you:"wha..?"
god:"oops"*sends a meteorite into the city*

RJMC if there is a thread that you haven't saved, I have yet to see it.

 

[Uriel]

Ulgh, online debate, here I come.

I really never have.



What a waste of time that would be. "Hi. Everything about your faith sucks ****ing cock. It's stupid, and really, so are you. But I'll just go ahead and respect it anyway." Yeah, because that makes goddamned sense.

:|
Wow, congrats you're a waste of skin Samon. What an extreme viewpoint. If people like you ran the world, Humanity would cease to exist in very little time. This "I dont give a **** what you believe viewpoint" is an entire step backwards. So Samon, because you don't respect people it makes you a big man? You think you know what's best for everyone and you're going to ignore everyone's perspective? Take a good look at yourself, what the hell makes you think that you are so above everyone else that you wouldn't have to respect the opinion of others?

And Absinthe, we don't respect other people out of the entire reason of the fear of being chastised about political correctness. It's call being kind. Ever heard of it? You people are truly extreme in your viewpoints.

My gosh, what next? Are you going to start labeling the words "Jew" or "Christian" on people's doorstep like they did in Germany before WW2?

And Absinthe, do not tell me my faith doesn't make sense until you've actually made an honest effort to understand it.

 

[NeptuneUK]

Stern wins again.
Sorry.

 

[Asknoone]

What an extreme viewpoint.

What, common sense?

If people like you ran the world, Humanity would cease to exist in very little time.

We couldn't be any worse off. Our former Prime Minister just said "God will be the final judge of my actions." on the war in Iraq. I think we'd be taking a step in the right direction looking at this tripe and lunacy.

This "I dont give a **** what you believe viewpoint" is an entire step backwards.

You generalize and misunderstand me. I certainly "give a ****" what someones view point is, especially if it's completely detrimental to society. What's more, I don't disrespect everyones opinion. No, absolutely not, I do rather have zero respect for an opinion that has absolutely no validity and is, quite frankly, stupid. e.g, Christianty or other, silly beliefs.

I've had people round my door telling me to repent, that Jesus is a'comon and that the recent floodings are evidence of the Bible's truths. These aren't opinions to be respected. You can respect that someone has an opinion, but if that opinion is worth ziltch, are you going to have respect for the opinion? I don't think so.

I believe the internet is made of pasta and everyone on it is a meatball. You give a **** what my viewpoint is now? Yes? Hooray, a step forwards. No, I didn't think so.

So Samon, because you don't respect people it makes you a big man?

Oh yes, because I claimed it made me the Incredible Hulk. Once again, you generalize. Where did I say I had no respect for people? I said I "Really never have" in that I show the exact same respect for someone in real life with a stupid opinion as I do here. It does not differ.

You think you know what's best for everyone and you're going to ignore everyone's perspective? Take a good look at yourself, what the hell makes you think that you are so above everyone else that you wouldn't have to respect the opinion of others?

I consider myself of a higher standing than anyone who thinks there's an all mighty being up there, a magic man if you will who condemns homosexuality, floods the Earth when he feels man is showing the faintest evidence of 'sin' or who believes, in the next 50 or so years, Jesus will descend from the cosmos.

I'm looking at myself and I see a rational being.

 

[Muffin Man]

Egh, these threads are just painful to read..

 

[co05]

Bah, unless a religious person is directly fooking you/causing you harm (your politicians, door to door clergymen, assholes preaching to you), leave them alone. They are entitled to their beliefs just as much as you are to yours.

 

[Spoonoop]

This is just what I'm seeing. It seems that you have a problem with this lady that you met, Jangle, but she doesn't have a problem with you. Just respect her beleifes as she respects yours. I could be wrong, after all I just skimmed through the post. Seriously I'm not ganna read all this crap

 

[Absinthe]

Wow, congrats you're a waste of skin Samon. What an extreme viewpoint. If people like you ran the world, Humanity would cease to exist in very little time. This "I dont give a **** what you believe viewpoint" is an entire step backwards. So Samon, because you don't respect people it makes you a big man? You think you know what's best for everyone and you're going to ignore everyone's perspective? Take a good look at yourself, what the hell makes you think that you are so above everyone else that you wouldn't have to respect the opinion of others?

And Absinthe, we don't respect other people out of the entire reason of the fear of being chastised about political correctness. It's call being kind. Ever heard of it? You people are truly extreme in your viewpoints.

My gosh, what next? Are you going to start labeling the words "Jew" or "Christian" on people's doorstep like they did in Germany before WW2?

In all fairness, your perspective offers... what, exactly? What is your perspective based on other than a total absence of evidence and logical reasoning?

In all other walks of life, we call that kind of thinking flawed. Wrong. Delusional. Possibly even crazy. But you want kid gloves because - what, unlike the plethora of other insane beliefs that could cost people their jobs or put them in mental asylums, yours in particular just so happens to be popular? Kindness has nothing to do with it. The kindness you expect from others is the kind that exempts you from criticism, because apparently telling people they're wrong is rude. What a sad state we're in.

Extreme viewpoints? Since when is calling people on their BS extreme? We're not picking up pitchforks and marching to your door. We're not trying to outlaw your religion. We're not leading you to the gallows. There's nothing militant or outrageous about us. We just don't believe in respecting religion out of politeness, and we think others should adopt similar attitudes instead of allowing religious dogma to creep into important issues. We recognize that irrational beliefs, even if not explicitly ingrained into legislation, can still adversely affect others. We want people to use critical thinking and abandon superstition.

This isn't extreme. This is sane. We should be having 21st century discussions of morality in light of science instead of pretending that ancient, fanciful, unevidenced literature written by men ignorant by today's standards has a valid voice. If you think that some harsh words in your direction is a slippery slope to the bigotry and discrimination of Nazi Germany, then you are fucked up. And that is probably the purest example of the kind of ridiculous respect we accord religion, when it's considered extreme to criticize faith.

And Absinthe, do not tell me my faith doesn't make sense until you've actually made an honest effort to understand it.

If the "understanding" you're referring to involves giving up my intellect and my skepticism to believe in a magic sky god, I'll pass. But if not, then please inform me. I'm serious, really. Because I tried to understand why people are so willing to believe in something on nothing.

 

[co05]

Can't we all just smoke some pot and get along?

 

[Absinthe]

No, because I'd prefer to come into churches and disrupt church services and throw blood all around and try to give people AIDS and spit in the face of ministers.

 

[<RJMC>]

I say rape her

 

[Kula Meenur]

I say rape her

:upstare:

Beat her with the bible

 

[MJ12]

And yet this was never about if all theists are evil.
This is about if fundamentalism is practiced by a significant portion of religious believers. The answer is a resounding "YES".

Oh, that's "valid", I would love to see the percentage of these fundamentalist believers? -Wait, infact I'll find it.

Poll Taken-
Object to stoning for adultery: 63.3 percent.
Oppose the death penalty for Muslims converting from Islam: 71.2 percent.
Oppose making women wear Muslim dress: 77 percent.
Against cutting off the hand of a thief: 77.3 percent.

In a survey of ten surveys, I find that "more than half of British Muslims want Islamic law and 5% endorse violence to achieve that end.

Oh boy, 5%!!!! Yeah, thats SO SIGNIFICANT

http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/456
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/14/AR2005071401030.html
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/144/story_14404_1.html

-Ut oh, that survey has 8%, look out, it's increased by 3% UT OH!!!

So the argument that the religions in question can also be used as forces for good is actually a pretty tough one to defend.

Once, again, do your research-
the catholic church contrubutes the largest ammount of money to various charities in the entire world.


oh yeah, and not to mention this-
Some dude supposedly came along named "Jesus", personally I don't think he's god, but he basically taught everyone to stop cutting off their neighbor's hand when they steal, and to stop ripping out people's eyes if they did you wrong, and to care for the minority, and the diseased and poor of society, taught people to love regardless, taught people to forgive. He basically chilled out an entire extremist society, which would later be pasted down and used as an example for society for thousands of years.
-Yeah, thats sooo bad

Sure during the dark ages there were some corrupt rich people in the church who f*cked things up, along with other people in history. But those are just some people, not significant when you weigh the pros

Listen, I don't believe in Jesus, but the fact is his ideas to this day help the general society to act moral.
As sad as that is, without religion, society would be more immoral than it already is.

 

[co05]

*sigh*

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

no, really those are just extremists that don't take the time to stop and actually think about their beliefs, and instead follow them like mindless drones. Your talking about fundamentalists, and not all religious people are fundamentalists.

Wouldn't disagree, however, 55% of Americans don't beleive in evolution. I am seriosuly worried - the most powerful nation on Earth, and over half need to go back to school.

 

[tehsolace]

Wouldn't disagree, however, 55% of Americans don't beleive in evolution. I am seriosuly worried - the most powerful nation on Earth, and over half need to go back to school.

Just because they don't believe in it doesn't mean they don't understand it.

 

[MJ12]

Wouldn't disagree, however, 55% of Americans don't beleive in evolution. I am seriosuly worried - the most powerful nation on Earth, and over half need to go back to school.

i believe in evolution, but who gives a care really if 55% of america doesn't believe in evolution? What's going to happen? Nothing.

Quite honestly, I'd be more worried about things like how most americans think being gay spreads AIDS, or that most gay people have AIDS (btw, for the record, its straight women, straight women carry the larges amount of HIV)

Or I'd be more concerned that most of america believes that the extremists groups in Islam are a significant number *cough only 8%*
-most of them want things to stop, and want the chaos to end.


I mean, Christianity is one of the largest religions in the world, and they believe in a giant imaginary friend who controls all. Thats pretty rediculous, but I am not worried about that either.

 

[PvtRyan]

Just because they don't believe in it doesn't mean they don't understand it.

It does, as a matter of fact. Because one who does understand it knows you don't "believe" in scientific theories, you either accept them based on the evidence there is, or reject it and formulate a new model that explains that evidence in a better way. That's the only two options you have. If I say gravity is wrong, which is fine, I can't just leave it at that, I must explain all the evidence in favor of it and create a better model than the current one. Feel free to call evolution wrong, but you better back that up real fucking good, and most don't go further than "but if we evolved from monkeys, then why are there still monkeys?" which is the clearest sign possible they don't understand it. Choosing not to "believe" in evolution is NOT an option.

And that 55% rejects it, is worrying. It's not that 55% of the people is stupid, it's that they're so indoctrinated with their PARENT'S BELIEFS that the 55% was pretty much predestined to reject it.

You think that 8% is a low number, zombieturtle? :|
I find that number shockingly high, what if it said 8% of Muslims liked to rape babies in the ass? Remember what we're talking about, people who think violence against innocent people is justified in any way because of THEIR personal beliefs. And those people make up 8% of an ethnic group in secular country! How are you OK with that?
And like I said, those are secular countries, I know of a study (I'll post the source later, no time right now) that shows that in MODERATE Islamic societies up to nearly half of the Muslims thought that violence against INNOCENTS in defense of Islam was justified.

 

[Krynn72]

I mean, Christianity is one of the largest religions in the world, and they believe in a giant imaginary friend who controls all. Thats pretty rediculous, but I am not worried about that either.

Why?! Why dont you care? You dont care if your fellow men are being discriminated against, hated upon, and becoming victims of hate crimes because of some insane baseless logic? You dont care that fellow humans are being killed in wars over difference in religion? The reason I (and I assume many other Atheists) fight against religion with such a passion is that what religions are doing to this world is horrifying. Religions breed hate towards innocent people. Religions breed discrimination towards people of opposing views. Religions condemn several thousand human lives to death.

By accepting or "respecting" the views of these institutions we are allowing this bullshit to continue. And believe it or not, there are some of us who want it to ****ing stop. Thats why we dont respect people's religions. We dont respect their beliefs, because their beliefs are what are causing so many problems in our world.

 

[co05]

By accepting or "respecting" the views of these institutions we are allowing this bullshit to continue. And believe it or not, there are some of us who want it to ****ing stop. Thats why we dont respect people's religions. We dont respect their beliefs, because their beliefs are what are causing so many problems in our world.

So you want every Christian in the world to disown their faith?

 

[Krynn72]

Yes. And everyone of any other faith to do the same.

 

[co05]

Wouldn't that make you just as bad as the door-to-door evangelizers?

Is every Christian/religious person a discriminating hate monger?

 

[99.vikram]

Can't we all just smoke some pot and get along?

Egh, these threads are just painful to read..

Ulgh, online debate, here I come.

If it really bothers you, don't post. :hmph:

If people like you ran the world, Humanity would cease to exist in very little time. This "I dont give a **** what you believe viewpoint" is an entire step backwards.

No, it would speed up social progress and reduce tensions.

You think you know what's best for everyone and you're going to ignore everyone's perspective?

Some opinions do not have enough merit to be respected.

Take a good look at yourself, what the hell makes you think that you are so above everyone else that you wouldn't have to respect the opinion of others?

Because his opinion is founded on logic, and the opposing view is founded on the bah-ble.

My gosh, what next? Are you going to start labeling the words "Jew" or "Christian" on people's doorstep like they did in Germany before WW2?

A large proportion of religious ppl are fundies. Stating that fact does not make me a Nazi/communist/whomever you hate.

do not tell me my faith doesn't make sense until you've actually made an honest effort to understand it.

There's nothing to understand. The word "faith" says it all. Belief without reason. Action without logic. :|

 

[MJ12]

It does, as a matter of fact. Because one who does understand it knows you don't "believe" in scientific theories, you either accept them based on the evidence there is, or reject it and formulate a new model that explains that evidence in a better way. That's the only two options you have. If I say gravity is wrong, which is fine, I can't just leave it at that, I must explain all the evidence in favor of it and create a better model than the current one. Feel free to call evolution wrong, but you better back that up real fucking good, and most don't go further than "but if we evolved from monkeys, then why are there still monkeys?" which is the clearest sign possible they don't understand it. Choosing not to "believe" in evolution is NOT an option.

we're talking about religion, religion and spiritualism are very abstract ideas.

It's like trying to explain math with art, it's probably not going to work.

And whats going to happen to you if a bunch of people don't believe in evolution? Are we going to die or something?

If someone wants to believe in an imaginary friend let them, why the hell does that make you cry so much?

You think that 8% is a low number, zombieturtle? :|
I find that number shockingly high

Considering that means 92% of them are not loonies, yeah, thats pretty insignificant when compaired with the majority

You might as well say 5% of Americans commit murder, that still leaves 95%that don't murder people.

Don't mix apples and oranges.

 

[co05]

If it really bothers you, don't post. :hmph:

'Scuse me, but it was a facetious post.

 

[Krynn72]

Wouldn't that make you just as bad as the door-to-door evangelizers?

Is every Christian/religious person a discriminating hate monger?

No, because Atheism doesnt provoke mass murder, genocide, and general hate towards innocent people.

we're talking about religion, religion and spiritualism are very abstract ideas.

It's like trying to explain math with art, it's probably not going to work.

And whats going to happen to you if a bunch of people don't believe in evolution? Are we going to die or something?

If someone wants to believe in an imaginary friend let them, why the hell does that make you cry so much?

Read my post please.

Don't mix apples and oranges.

Thats exactly what you just did with this statement:

Considering that means 92% of them are not loonies, yeah, thats pretty insignificant when compaired with the majority

You might as well say 5% of Americans commit murder, that still leaves 95%that don't murder people.