dassbaba
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To the People of the CS e-sports community, this post was brought on by bobob's comment in my last thread....
also i'm not being an elitist. there are gamers, then there are gamers who play damn much and get good and play in competitions. thats how it works. im just commenting being from both worlds.
here is what he said
Now, i added comments by what he said and wrote an "editorial" below that
Originally Posted by bobbob
> no shields (why not, you can turn them off)
> vehicles stupid idea (turn those off too, cs has 10000 maps with crappy HL1 box vehicles that try to be vehicles)
> forget cz (it makes money and it's fun, you're not god, just because you don't like it dosen't mean people who do like it shouldn't be allowed to play it. ugh.)
> stop making things idiot friendly (welcome to the internet. game developers try to make games as easy to understand as possible. since when is making games complicated fun...)
> aim at competitive esports scene - not kids playing on public servers (there are 10 of them for every one of you)
> esports is what makes cs big not the fools running around public servers (no, e-sports evolved from the great and addictive game that is cs. esports is taking it one bit further. people play CS because of the popularity not it's semi-professional player community)
> dont need new guns. stop changing existing guns. (i agree/disagree. don't overdo it)
> all of u shut up with ur crazy ideas which may make public more interesting (once again, 10 of them for 1 of you)
> dont change realism, fine as is (realism is crappy in HL1 because of the engine limits. the game is evolving)
> netcode is excellent - no need to change it (tech explanation would be long and unneeded but you sir are a moron)
> ask the top teams / event organisers (CPL) to give opinions not these kids. (ask the top teams and value their opinions more than those of the kids. and i mean Top teams, not regular old american cal-m/p/not top i teams)
> forget single player. you have allready got the best single player game in the world, you wont make 2. (i won't call you an idiot, but valve is a company and they try and make money, and valve is the most honest and public friendly money making entity in the game world... even tops blizzard some might say)
> remove awp delay like he said (just because you're good at it...?)
> make sure HLTV is ported to new engine (of course)
e-sports community = people that play on private servers in PCW's or scrims and play as clans, as opposed to random people playing on public servers
Recently, many people have been crying out for change and new features in the CS source, only to be met by harsh words from the e-sports community. Far too much I have seen e-sports CS players go "don't listen to those public server kids, they are idiots!" True that may be, many game players are young kids or random morons, but they are the life-blood of the CS engine, and you, the e-sports community play a secondary role to them.
People who play in private servers, aren't important compared to the magnitude of those that play in public servers. The whole CS community with their snazzy tricks and seasoned gameplay came out of the moronic kid-ridden public server land called counter-strike. They have de facto rules (see gamesurge), organized league structures, popular and mainstream game tactics and strategies. Now, the kids that are good at cs and have learned hard to do tricks and moves are scared that their little world of scrims, leagues, and lans, is getting a makeover. To them I say, you adapted for CS, now adapt for the new one. Just because you are used to the old one, dosen't mean they can't change it.
"But dassbaba CS is fun right now, they might ruin it!"
There are things that the original creators and valve would have loved to see in CS, but they couldn't because of the engine. There are things they wanted to do, but didn't for the sake of the existing community. There was a risk and they didn't want to lose their grip on the community for some silly changes. Now they have the community sleeping next to them in bed, and a gigantic opportunity for change (HL2). What do you think will happen. E-sports kids arent the center of the world.
What is valve? a company
What are they trying to do? provide great games and make money
Who is going to buy CS? The public server kids and e-sports kids.
Which one are there more of? The public server kids
Listen to the ones who buy. If valve specifically catered to a bunch of disenchanted gamers who want to stick to their regular game which they have played for so long and are scared of the risk of making the game suck, they would be out of business faster than micheal jacksons daycare center
If the CS kids think something is fun, and beg valve for this and that, they better listen to them rather than you. Most e-sports players beg for conservative changes to cs, like tweak this and that, but DONT DO THIS BLA BLA, which would have them still be good at cs. I'm not saying at all that e-sports kids have secret ambitions to stay good at this CS game, but that they don't want something new and subconsiously don't want big changes that would feel different to them. There are certain trends in games that a game has to follow to appeal to the mainstream community which buys their game. Now the trend is great graphics, improved physics, and big maps with interactive items on it. I'm probly going to get flamed for the "trend" thing but it's true. With new technology we are able to do more, and the new hot games are doing this.
The bottom line is- valve needs to....
*add HL2 engine stuff (you couldnt before and now you can so do it)
*not take away shield just because the CS kids think it sucks so much that they can't stand seeing it. YOU CAN TURN IT OFF! Some people like it.
*don't be afraid to add new weapons. there are a ton of new tactical shooter mods being made for HL2, and CS has to keep up with the flow
*listen to the general public and value opinions of the top teams more than that of the average gamer
to those who question my validity in saying these things, i'm an "e-sports" gamer turned pc gaming commentator/aspiring developer who has played at LAN tournaments, played in the top CAL CS divisions, and wrote for GotFrag and CSNation. For proof PM me on the forums. and check out the mod i'm working on in my signature. keke. zergrush^_^.
- dassbaba
also i'm not being an elitist. there are gamers, then there are gamers who play damn much and get good and play in competitions. thats how it works. im just commenting being from both worlds.
here is what he said
Now, i added comments by what he said and wrote an "editorial" below that
Originally Posted by bobbob
> no shields (why not, you can turn them off)
> vehicles stupid idea (turn those off too, cs has 10000 maps with crappy HL1 box vehicles that try to be vehicles)
> forget cz (it makes money and it's fun, you're not god, just because you don't like it dosen't mean people who do like it shouldn't be allowed to play it. ugh.)
> stop making things idiot friendly (welcome to the internet. game developers try to make games as easy to understand as possible. since when is making games complicated fun...)
> aim at competitive esports scene - not kids playing on public servers (there are 10 of them for every one of you)
> esports is what makes cs big not the fools running around public servers (no, e-sports evolved from the great and addictive game that is cs. esports is taking it one bit further. people play CS because of the popularity not it's semi-professional player community)
> dont need new guns. stop changing existing guns. (i agree/disagree. don't overdo it)
> all of u shut up with ur crazy ideas which may make public more interesting (once again, 10 of them for 1 of you)
> dont change realism, fine as is (realism is crappy in HL1 because of the engine limits. the game is evolving)
> netcode is excellent - no need to change it (tech explanation would be long and unneeded but you sir are a moron)
> ask the top teams / event organisers (CPL) to give opinions not these kids. (ask the top teams and value their opinions more than those of the kids. and i mean Top teams, not regular old american cal-m/p/not top i teams)
> forget single player. you have allready got the best single player game in the world, you wont make 2. (i won't call you an idiot, but valve is a company and they try and make money, and valve is the most honest and public friendly money making entity in the game world... even tops blizzard some might say)
> remove awp delay like he said (just because you're good at it...?)
> make sure HLTV is ported to new engine (of course)
e-sports community = people that play on private servers in PCW's or scrims and play as clans, as opposed to random people playing on public servers
Recently, many people have been crying out for change and new features in the CS source, only to be met by harsh words from the e-sports community. Far too much I have seen e-sports CS players go "don't listen to those public server kids, they are idiots!" True that may be, many game players are young kids or random morons, but they are the life-blood of the CS engine, and you, the e-sports community play a secondary role to them.
People who play in private servers, aren't important compared to the magnitude of those that play in public servers. The whole CS community with their snazzy tricks and seasoned gameplay came out of the moronic kid-ridden public server land called counter-strike. They have de facto rules (see gamesurge), organized league structures, popular and mainstream game tactics and strategies. Now, the kids that are good at cs and have learned hard to do tricks and moves are scared that their little world of scrims, leagues, and lans, is getting a makeover. To them I say, you adapted for CS, now adapt for the new one. Just because you are used to the old one, dosen't mean they can't change it.
"But dassbaba CS is fun right now, they might ruin it!"
There are things that the original creators and valve would have loved to see in CS, but they couldn't because of the engine. There are things they wanted to do, but didn't for the sake of the existing community. There was a risk and they didn't want to lose their grip on the community for some silly changes. Now they have the community sleeping next to them in bed, and a gigantic opportunity for change (HL2). What do you think will happen. E-sports kids arent the center of the world.
What is valve? a company
What are they trying to do? provide great games and make money
Who is going to buy CS? The public server kids and e-sports kids.
Which one are there more of? The public server kids
Listen to the ones who buy. If valve specifically catered to a bunch of disenchanted gamers who want to stick to their regular game which they have played for so long and are scared of the risk of making the game suck, they would be out of business faster than micheal jacksons daycare center
If the CS kids think something is fun, and beg valve for this and that, they better listen to them rather than you. Most e-sports players beg for conservative changes to cs, like tweak this and that, but DONT DO THIS BLA BLA, which would have them still be good at cs. I'm not saying at all that e-sports kids have secret ambitions to stay good at this CS game, but that they don't want something new and subconsiously don't want big changes that would feel different to them. There are certain trends in games that a game has to follow to appeal to the mainstream community which buys their game. Now the trend is great graphics, improved physics, and big maps with interactive items on it. I'm probly going to get flamed for the "trend" thing but it's true. With new technology we are able to do more, and the new hot games are doing this.
The bottom line is- valve needs to....
*add HL2 engine stuff (you couldnt before and now you can so do it)
*not take away shield just because the CS kids think it sucks so much that they can't stand seeing it. YOU CAN TURN IT OFF! Some people like it.
*don't be afraid to add new weapons. there are a ton of new tactical shooter mods being made for HL2, and CS has to keep up with the flow
*listen to the general public and value opinions of the top teams more than that of the average gamer
to those who question my validity in saying these things, i'm an "e-sports" gamer turned pc gaming commentator/aspiring developer who has played at LAN tournaments, played in the top CAL CS divisions, and wrote for GotFrag and CSNation. For proof PM me on the forums. and check out the mod i'm working on in my signature. keke. zergrush^_^.
- dassbaba
. I would agree with you to leave it as optional only if admins of servers actually restritcted the buying of it when every person in the server complains. When a single person alone can change the whole game so drastically with the addition of 1 piece of equipment I think that says something, and yes it is that bad. You bring up a good point though that Valve is more worried about pleasing the pub crowd rather than the e-sports community crowd because there are simply more of them, if it wernt for the pub crowd i can almost gaurentee cs would still be stuck at version 1.3. I'm all for the addition of vehicles, new maps, objects in maps because we have had the same game for 5 years and I would prefer something refreshing. The e-sports community that is worried about CS changing too much shouldn't be because if all else fails they will stick with regular cs, also i highly doubt seeing the addition of vehicles and very large maps being something that is used in clan matches.
