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Saturos

Saturos

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What causes humans to age? (and any biological matter really)

It's not like we can remove parts that no longer work and replace them like we can with non-biomechanical machines like computers and vehicles. Nature's way for compensating for this complexity is reproduction.


We age, and then we die, but as long as we keep making babies, the species survives. It's almost as if nature intended humans to be more hive-minded one day. In a hive-minded society, one death is no big deal as long as the species endures.

The big question is though, what's the main culprit behind aging?
 
This is a compilation of what I've learned from various sources:

Oxygen

The Sun

A poor diet (mostly from foods that are inflammatory - i.e. most everything in the grocery store)

The normal wear and tear on your body parts

Our immune system

Free radicals
 
Virus listed some things that contribute to aging, but the main cause is telomere degradation over time.
 
VirusType2 said:
This is a compilation of what I've learned from various sources:

Oxygen

The Sun

A poor diet (mostly from foods that are inflammatory - i.e. most everything in the grocery store)

The normal wear and tear on your body parts

Our immune system

Free radicals
Click to expand...

but:

1)we need oxygen, and btw, our air is not pure oxygen (which is toxic)

2) We can't survive long without much sun either. Has something to do with supplying the body with Vitamin D or something.

3) What about a diet consisting of fresh produce and meat and less preservatives? It's not likely people are going to stick with this diet plan though.

4) How could we combat normal wear & tear? Appendages and such could be re-placed, but I don't ever foresee an artificial brain transplant without destroying all traces of one's former self. We are coming along pretty good with heart transplants and artificial hearts though.

5) We can't replace the rest of the aging circulatory system though. (veins and arteries) Next to impossible.

6) Will immune system supplements help any?

7) It would be better to "age slower" than to "live longer".

8) It's not likely normal people could afford the latest breakthroughs anyways.
 
G(ordon)-man said:
Cellular aging. I think.
Click to expand...

these bad boys

see "Systemic telomere length and aging" section. We're programmed from the cellular level to age--all the other stuff is just inconsistent variables that artificially increase/decrease the lifespan.

Eejit said:
Virus listed some things that contribute to aging, but the main cause is telomere degradation over time.
Click to expand...

yap
 
Google "telomere degradation" and you'll get a bunch of links with biologist jargon I don't understand. See what you guys think.
 
Saturos said:
6) Will immune system supplements help any?

7) It would be better to "age slower" than to "live longer".

8) It's not likely normal people could afford the latest breakthroughs anyways.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying there is a way around any of those things.

But for the immune system, from what I read, couldn't really be put in one sentence, but it's basically that our immune system attacks and kills any invaders into our body, but it leaves a big mess and that mess doesn't go anywhere and eventually ends up clogging things up.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean on No.7. There is no way to live forever... no surprise.

No.8 - yeah. There are some breakthroughs and they think they could alter genes to be able to make us live longer, like say to 150 years or maybe more, but wear and tear is going to be the catch all.

They also believe they can make people more intelligent and things like that by tampering with genes, but working in a lab, talking about it in a science paper and actually offering this type of thing to the public are different things.


Google "telomere degradation" and you'll get a bunch of links with biologist jargon I don't understand. See what you guys think.
Click to expand...
I've never heard of it yet myself.
 
VirusType2 said:
I'm not sure I understand what you mean on No.7. There is no way to live forever... no surprise.
Click to expand...
What I meant was that many people confuse "living longer" with "aging slower".

I, for one, would rather not live to be 150 at the rate humans today age.

Take for instance, I'm 25 now, but when I get to 30 ( 5 Gregorian calendar years), it'll be like I'm only 26 instead. The rate at which we live (aging slower) and not duration (living longer).
 
BHC said:
19 second explanation of aging on the cellular level.
Click to expand...
ah, yeah, I knew about this but didn't know the name for it and couldn't explain it well.

It's also the reason when we age our imperfections magnify.

Like if you have a pronounced feature, it gets worse as you get older.


Saturos said:
What I meant was that many people confuse "living longer" with "aging slower".

I, for one, would rather not live to be 150 at the rate humans today age.

Take for instance, I'm 25 now, but when I get to 30 ( 5 Gregorian calendar years), it'll be like I'm only 26 instead. The rate at which we live (aging slower) and not duration (living longer).
Click to expand...

yeah, seriously. I see these feeble people that can barely move at all without assistance and can barely feed themselves and they are only in their 90s. Imagine being 150.
 
The world will find new and interesting ways to kill us, don't worry.

Rabid cancer from wireless signals previously believed to be harmless, Mad Cow disease, trans fat, nukes, atmospheric pollutants, increased carcinogens and metals in the water, irreversible bodily harm from popular psychoactive medications such as SSRI antidepressants and early use of amphetamines.

Don't get too comfortable.
 
Interesting stuff! This thread has made me a little smarter.
 
BHC said:
The world will find new and interesting ways to kill us, don't worry.

Rabid cancer from wireless signals previously believed to be harmless, Mad Cow disease, trans fat, nukes, atmospheric pollutants, increased carcinogens and metals in the water.

Don't get too comfortable.
Click to expand...
Humans can't seem to do anything quite right, and now world leaders are tasked to finding ways to fix these things we once thought were actually good things. The pollutant thing is just plain laziness though.
 
It's all about taxes. The youth will pay taxes for a longer period of time. Old people GTFO because they are paid for with taxes.

Hell the average death of a male in the US is 74, and that's just of people that haven't died from something else in their life, like cancer or an accident.

But the retirement age is 65.... do the math. You work for almost 50 years paying taxes and if you manage to live to retirement, you won't live much longer.

Why do you think cigarettes are legal? Taxes and to kill off the old.
 
VirusType2 said:
It's all about taxes. The youth will pay taxes for a longer period of time. Old people GTFO because they are paid for with taxes.

Hell the average death of a male in the US is 74, and that's just of people that haven't died from something else in their life, like cancer or an accident.

But the retirement age is 65.... do the math. You work for almost 50 years paying taxes and if you manage to live to retirement, you won't live much longer.

Why do you think cigarettes are legal? Taxes and to kill off the old.
Click to expand...
I agree. It's a dirty conspiracy nobody wants to admit because their government(s) loves them and WOULD NEVER stoop to such levels and the reason why marijuana is illegal is because IT'S BAD FOR YOU! ~Durka-dur~

As long as there is a healthy workforce, that's all that matters. See? Even America is communist to an extent.
 
VirusType2 said:
It's all about taxes. The youth will pay taxes for a longer period of time. Old people GTFO because they are paid for with taxes.

Hell the average death of a male in the US is 74, and that's just of people that haven't died from something else in their life, like cancer or an accident.

But the retirement age is 65.... do the math. You work for almost 50 years paying taxes and if you manage to live to retirement, you won't live much longer.

Why do you think cigarettes are legal? Taxes and to kill off the old.
Click to expand...

That.... that is so goddman inhuman.



And smart.



My god. I think I love goverment now.










Anyway, I'm going to live forever or die trying, and by the time that I reach old age, there will prolly be ways to cheat death. :p
 
not just cigarettes, but alcohol too. Yep, people die from it. Without a properly functioning liver, you are ****ed bro. And the shit they put in food... They tax the shit out of fast food, alcohol and cigarettes. And you get hooked on them so

An almost guaranteed death by 65 is totally win.


more on topic, I wouldn't mind being a complete robot as long as I kept my thoughts, memories and personality. Then you could live forever, short of hard drive or chip failure.

Though there's that whole issue with human attraction...
 
VirusType2 said:
not just cigarettes, but alcohol too. Yep, people die from it. Without a properly functioning liver, you are ****ed bro. And the shit they put in food... They tax the shit out of fast food, alcohol and cigarettes. And you get hooked on them so

An almost guaranteed death by 65 is totally win.


more on topic, I wouldn't mind being a complete robot as long as I kept my thoughts, memories and personality. Then you could live forever, short of hard drive or chip failure.

Though there's that whole issue with human attraction...
Click to expand...
Yep. Uncanny valley.
 
Life is an intricate balance between the forces of growth and repair, and decay. The body can easily repair any and all damage and decay it encounters. The body's repair system is so good that, barring any disasters or serious illnesses, a human being could survive for many hundreds of years. "Wear and tear" is not the cause of aging. Environmental factors can influence aging, to be sure, but they are not its cause. The human body's repair mechanisms are too good for that.

However, the human body's repair mechanisms are almost too good for survival. Unfortunately, the same mechanisms that allow our cells to robustly repair damage and replace parts is the same mechanism by which cancer operates.

Individual cells really don't care what happens in the body. They are just along for the ride. They take in resources, they output what their genetic code tells them to output, and they reproduce when the enzymes in their environment and inside the cell wall match up with the DNA code for reproduction. However, if the DNA code for replication is too lenient--allowing the cell to reproduce at just about any time--then the cell will continue to multiply until all the resources in its environment are used up by its children. The body's mechanism for repair is to alter the amount replication hormones in the blood-stream, carefully controlling which areas experience the most rapid growth, and which ones' growths have been slowed.

However, the failure of this system is that the cells, and the cells alone, are responsible for their own reproduction. They don't have to vote with the rest of the cells in the body to get the right to reproduce, they simply reproduce when they are told to do so by their genetic code. When a mutation happens in the reproduction mechanism of the cell, there is the possibility that a cell will simply start reproducing like crazy. It will form a cancerous tumor which invades other tissues, continually expanding with near-immortal cells that reproduce continually. This eventually kills the entire body.

Thus, to avoid cancer, the body has evolved a system that ensures runaway cancerous cells stop reproducing--and die. Part of this system is the reduction of telomeres-- strands of "buffer" DNA that wear down with each replication. When the buffer dies down after too many replications--like the wick of a burning candle, the cell's offspring are rendered infertile, and die of excessive mutation. In this way, cancerous tumors can quickly die off, and most go unnoticed, as they rarely reach dangerous sizes.

Unfortunately, this system has also introduced aging to the human body. After a certain number of years, most of the body's cells have already reproduced as much as they can. Their offspring are infertile mutants with poor reproductive systems and poor production. Repair slows. Decay creeps in. Soon, the body can no longer keep up with the damage, and disease, and finally death sets in.

Since humans had usually reproduced before aging began to set in, or may have died long beforehand, aging was never selected against in evolution. There was little significant benefit to living over 40 those many thousands of years ago, when few people lived past 20.

Thus, now that medicine and easy living keeps us alive long past 40, we see the effects of age on our bodies, and many people suffer great hardships.

Maybe someday, geneticists will discover a way to circumvent aging while also avoiding cancer, and promote treatments to slow or stop the aging process. There is no reason why humans can't remain as twenty-year-olds for hundreds of years--as long as cancer and runaway mutation is kept in check.
 
DEATHMASTER said:
Use hax on telomeres
???
profit!
Click to expand...

Experiments that slowed telomere deletion in rats often resulted in the rats getting severe and deadly forms of cancer early in life.

It appears that:
1. Use hax on telomeres
2. Get cancer
3. Die.
 
So the purpose behind the reduction of telomere is to keep each cell's reproduction cycle in check with the proper DNA code so that they just can't reproduce willy-nilly thereby causing cancer, but it is actually the reduction of telomere itself that causes the aging process? Theotherguy, your a genius! No wonder why you go to Carnegie Mellon!

I meant that in a non-patronizing way of course :)

Also:

Unfortunately, this system has also introduced aging to the human body. After a certain number of years, most of the body's cells have already reproduced as much as they can. Their offspring are infertile mutants with poor reproductive systems and poor production. Repair slows. Decay creeps in. Soon, the body can no longer keep up with the damage, and disease, and finally death sets in.
Click to expand...
this explains wrinkles and grey hair, ammirite?
 
theotherguy said:
Maybe someday, geneticists will discover a way to circumvent aging while also avoiding cancer, and promote treatments to slow or stop the aging process. There is no reason why humans can't remain as twenty-year-olds for hundreds of years--as long as cancer and runaway mutation is kept in check.
Click to expand...
Shouldn't be too hard, insert multiple copies of other tumor-suppressor genes then add another copy of telomerase with a stronger promoter.
This is all assuming that the correlation between telomere length and aging is indeed causal which has not been definitively demonstrated yet.
 
theotherguy said:
...
Click to expand...

Interesting.

So things I described as wear and tear that come with aging, like worn out joints, eyes that no longer lubricate themselves properly causing blindness are an effect of telomeres?

However there are some things in the body wear or don't repair themselves like the brain and teeth, for example.

So many things old people have problems with later in life, like heart, kidney failure, liver failure, and brittle bones are an effect of telomeres, else they would repair themselves.

Pretty interesting.

My step-father is in line for a liver transplant. The thing is, he only needs half of a liver transplanted from a live donor, and they say that both halves - the one in the donor and the one in my step-father, will grow into a fully functioning and full size liver within 12 weeks.
 
VirusType2 said:
So things I described as wear and tear that come with aging, like worn out joints, eyes that no longer lubricate themselves properly causing blindness are an effect of telomeres?
Click to expand...

Obviously almost everything that can go wrong with one's body has a cause on the cellular level except blunt trauma and the like.
 
I heard a few months ago that some Croatian scientists are on the verge of discovering some sort of "elixir of youth" that slows down the aging process.I want to stay a teenager forever. :dozey:
 
Our most critical cells needed for life simply cannot reproduce themselves for us to live longer than we do.

I also think there was a term for it sensenence? I can't remember the spelling.
 
VirusType2 said:
more on topic, I wouldn't mind being a complete robot as long as I kept my thoughts, memories and personality. Then you could live forever, short of hard drive or chip failure.

Though there's that whole issue with human attraction...
Click to expand...

Saturos said:
Yep. Uncanny valley.
Click to expand...
As long as I have a vibration function, it's all good. :naughty:

For her at least. Now what about me - a computer. Can a machine 'feel good'? Not with current technology.
 
Saturos said:
but:

1)we need oxygen, and btw, our air is not pure oxygen (which is toxic)
Click to expand...

Oxygen isn't toxic, It's just extremely flammable. I saw a thing on The Science Channel about the air and what makes it up, and scientists, to prove that the air isn't pure oxygen, placed a mouse in an environment with only pure oxygen. The mouse lived much much longer then the other mice, but was extremely flammable.
 
zombieturtle01 said:
...
Click to expand...
I was reminded of that illustrated book you have where the people have all sorts of mechanical appendages. What was that called again?

Also of the Spider Mastermind from Doom 2:
Doom%20mastermind%20(1).jpg
spidermastermindev9.jpg


I guess some artist did this one. I'd like to see this bitch in Doom 4:
1075008246.jpg
 
Lol, The Evolution of Modern Man?

I'm actually trying to make it into a full graphic illustration this summer with a friend.
 
I'm proud of myself for actually knowing this. Now don't ever ask me to answer something smarty again.
 
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