Developers bet PS3 will be the leading console in 3 years

[dream431ca]

One developer has described 10 points on why the PS3 will be the system to beat by 2010. It's a long read, but I very good read. The developer is an employee of Insomniac games (ratchet and clank, and Resistance fall of man). Read it and post about it. (It's very long so the first 5 will be on this page, the next 5 on the second.)

Mar 27, 2007 : 10 Reasons Why PS3 Will Win This Console Generation


Insomniac Games Chief Creative Officer Brian Hastings discusses why the PS3 is the console to beat

First of all, let me make it clear that Insomniac is a 100% independent development studio. Sony has neither endorsed nor authorized what I?m writing here.

When I started this blog post I was planning to write about Home and Little Big Planet from a developer?s perspective. But as I read some of the media and message board responses to Sony?s GDC presentation, I wanted to address an ongoing industry phenomenon. Specifically, the sheer volume of negative spin toward Sony from both the mainstream press and the internet community. Mere minutes after Sony announced a beautiful, ground breaking, free, community-enhancing online PS3 service, 100 internet posters were trying to argue that this was somehow a bad thing. Whether you love or hate Sony, if you?re trying to spin Home as a bad thing I can only conclude that you?re part of Microsoft?s $3.2 billion viral marketing campaign.

I?ll be the first to say that Sony has had a very rough road from last E3 up through this year?s GDC. Some of their wounds have been self-inflicted, but they?ve also had to face a conspicuously hostile media. Take the New York Times article ?How the PS3 will kill your dog, steal your girlfriend, and infect you with Ebola.? And Time magazine?s piece ?Global Warming: Is It The PS3?? And more recently, GameSpot?s ?Ten Complaints We Thought Up While Everyone Else Was Watching Little Big Planet.?

For the last nine months it has been fashionable to bash the PS3. At first it was controversial, even titillating, to make sensational and dire predictions about the PS3?s future. You could watch it happen again and again ? a rumor starts on a message board (?The PS3s all caught on fire at TGS!?, ?Blu-Ray won?t have any Porn!?), then it gets picked up by a games industry website, and a few days later USA Today runs the story with the headline ?Experts Say PS3 Doom3d!1!!? But the tide has changed so much now that it?s downright controversial to suggest that the PS3 may yet be a success. So, in the spirit of sensationalism and controversy, let me present to you 10 reasons why the PS3 will be the console market leader by 2010:

1. Home & Little Big Planet
One of my jobs at Insomniac is to try to come up with ?the next big thing.? This is something everyone at Insomniac does, but as Chief Creative Officer it?s also part of my job description. For the last two years there have been two concepts that I have felt had the strongest potential to be the next big thing. At GDC, Sony came out of the blue and delivered fully-realized versions of both concepts.

The first concept is a realization of the ?Metaverse? from Neal Stephenson?s groundbreaking novel Snow Crash. For those who haven?t read it, it?s what inspired Second Life. Over the last couple years, many of us at Insomniac have come up with lots of different ideas on how to make such a system for consoles. So when Home came out, already nearly complete and looking beautiful, it was both amazing and humbling at the same time. In short, Home is exactly what the online console community needs. I?m not saying that because it?s on the PS3. I?m saying that because Home is a fully realized version of something I?ve been trying to figure out how to do for two years.

The other ?next big thing? I had been thinking about is how to make a game that is primarily driven by player-generated content. So when Little Big Planet was announced I felt like Orville Wright tinkering on a bicycle-powered balsa wood plane as a learjet suddenly flew overhead. Not only does Little Big Planet have stunningly beautiful graphics, gorgeous animation, brilliant physics and intuitive controls, it?s also a cooperative four player online game! This alone makes it accessible to a much greater audience than player vs player games. And most important of all, it has an absolutely ingenuous system for creating and sharing your own levels. This is HUGE. This is something that?s never been done on consoles and now it?s being introduced not as a half-baked add-on to another game, but as an absolutely brilliant, fully realized, breathtaking experience. You can bet that dozens of developers will create their own Little Big Planet levels as soon as it comes out. Many future game designers will get their start by designing Little Big Planet levels. Gamers who previously had no way to get their foot in the door as a game designer will have developers calling them in the middle of the night if they make a top-rated LBP level. I say again, Little Big Planet is HUGE.

It?s humbling to know that other developers had not only thought of these two concepts, but brought them to fruition in such stunning fashion. Mostly, though, it?s very encouraging to see Sony taking more of a lead in online innovation. While some people were accusing them of merely copying the competition, Sony has been quietly working on two of the most innovative ideas of this generation. ?Mii too?? Give me a break.

2. Free Online
Among all the talk about the price of Sony?s console, I almost never see anyone mention the significance of Sony?s free online service. Xbox Live Gold costs $70 to sign up for 1 year, or $20 for three months. You can renew your membership for $50 a year. So if the Xbox 360 stays around for five years, you?ll be paying 70 + 50 + 50 + 50 + 50 = $270 to access features that Sony gives you for free.

I agree, Xbox Live is overall offering a better online service right now. But $270 better? And Sony is steadily narrowing the gap in online features. With improvements to the messaging system and support for background downloading, Sony is rapidly catching up with many of the key advantages that Live has enjoyed. Add to that the fact that Sony is offering virtually lag-free dedicated servers at no cost, while on Xbox Live you are paying for a more laggy peer-to-peer service. Furthermore, one of the biggest advertised features of Xbox Live is matchmaking, yet the implementation of this feature has been inconsistent since it is left up to the developer. The matchmaking service on Resistance: FOM, meanwhile, has been one of its biggest successes, proving that even at this early stage the PS3?s online capabilities are very competitive. And free. As the PS3 community continues to grow with new features and player-generated content from Home and Little Big Planet, Sony?s online service is looking better and better. And, again, they?re not charging you $270 for it.

3. 50 GB games
If you ever hear someone say ?Blu-Ray isn?t needed for this generation,? rest assured they don?t make games for a living. At Insomniac, we were filling up DVDs on the PS2, as were most of the developers in the industry. We compressed the level data, we compressed the mpeg movies, we compressed the audio, and it was still a struggle to get it to fit in 6 gigs. Now we?ve got 16 times as much system RAM, so the level data is 16 times bigger. And the average disc space of games only gets bigger over a console?s lifespan. As games get bigger, more advanced and more complex, they necessarily take up more space. If developers were filling up DVDs last generation, there are clearly going to be some sacrifices made to fit current generation games in the same amount of space.

Granted, some really great Xbox 360 games have squeezed onto a DVD9. Gears of War is a beautiful game and shows off the highest resolution textures of anything yet released, partly because of the Unreal Engine?s ability to stream textures. This means that you can have much higher resolution textures than you could normally fit in your 512 MB of RAM. It also means that you?re going to chew up more disc space for each level. With streamed textures, streamed geometry and streamed audio, even with compression, you can quickly approach 1 GB of data per level. That inherently limits you to a maximum of about 7 levels, and that?s without multiplayer levels or mpeg cutscenes.

Sometimes people ask us, ?If Resistance takes 14 gigabytes, why doesn?t it look better than Gears?? Well, for one, Resistance didn?t support texture streaming, so we had to make choices about where we spent our high-res textures. Resistance also had 30 single-player chapters, six multiplayer maps, uncompressed audio streaming, and high-definition mpegs. That all added up to a lot of space on the disc. Starting with Ratchet and Clank Future: Tools of Destruction we are supporting texture streaming, which will make the worlds look even better, and will also consume even more space on disc.

There?s no question that you can always cut more levels, compress the audio more, compress the textures more, down-res the mpeg movies, and eventually get any game to fit on a DVD. But you paid for a high-def experience, right? You want the highest resolution, best audio, most cinematic experience a developer can offer, right? That?s why Blu-Ray is important for games, and why it will become more important each year of this hardware cycle.

4. Casino Royale
Casino Royale is the first high definition title to crack the top 10 on Amazon?s DVD charts, rising up to number seven shortly after being released. This is significant because it dispels the myth that high definition discs are merely a niche and will never take off with the mainstream.

A lot of people have been waiting on the fence to see whether Blu-Ray or HD-DVD would emerge as the winner of the format war. Well, at this point the war is as good as over. Blu-Ray has won a TKO. It always had superior technical specs and much wider studio support, but there was the question of whether HD-DVD?s earlier release and initially lower price would capture enough of the market to make it the winner. But Blu-Ray has already surpassed HD-DVD in overall discs sold, and is currently outselling HD-DVD discs at about a 3:1 rate. Many neutral observers in the A/V community have called the war in favor of Blu-Ray. If you want minute-to-minute updates, you can follow what?s left of the format war at various locations on the internet:
http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/
http://www.hdgamedb.com/amazon/versus.aspx
These sites mainly compare Amazon sales data, but the Nielsen sales data shows the same thing: Blu-Ray discs are outselling HD-DVD by a steadily increasing margin.

Many of Disney, Fox and Sony?s biggest box office movies will release exclusively on Blu-Ray in the next three months, likely pushing the sales separation between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD to a margin where many retailers will begin phasing out HD-DVD. Retailers hate a format war even more than consumers, and I suspect they?ll take the initiative to end it as quickly as possible.

5. HDMI
A lot has been said about Sony?s choice to ship with composite cables. I won?t say I agree with that decision, but I think too little has been said of the fact that even the cheaper PS3 SKU supports HDMI 1.3. The PS3 was the first consumer device to support it, and this is a very important future-proofing step. When you go to buy higher-end TVs, the PS3 will support the highest possible audio and video input the TV and receiver can accept. If and when high-def movies start requiring an Image Constraint Token, the PS3 will still be able play them in high definition.

Right now, HDMI seems primarily to be a selling point to the hardcore audio and videophiles of the world. But HDTVs are getting cheaper and more popular all the time, and consumer sophistication and knowledge of high definition audio and video is growing. In a couple years, HDMI devices will be the standard. Graphics and audio in games will also continue to improve, and more and more consumers will want HDMI in order to get the best results on their home theater setups. As this happens, Microsoft has a difficult choice ? do they stick with ?last gen? video output, or do they release a premium version of the Xbox 360 that includes HDMI but effectively forces early adopters to re-buy the system to get the best results? Sony ultimately made their console more expensive by including HDMI, but over the next couple years it?s likely to play out as the right choice.

 

[dream431ca]

Next 5

6. Standard HDD
When we were developing for PS2, I was jealous of Xbox?s standard hard drive. There are so many things this allowed you to consider as a developer ? virtually unlimited save data, improved load times, custom music, downloadable content and user-created content just to name a few. But since hard drives, no matter what the size, never get cheaper than about $50, Microsoft lost money trying to compete with the PS2?s price. That may be the reason they left it out of the cheaper Xbox 360 SKU, thinking that Sony would again leave out the hard drive on the PS3. Instead, Sony made the hard drive standard for both SKUs. This added to the cost of the PS3, but it also let developers use the HDD in games.

The problem with including a hard drive in one version of the 360 and not in the other is that developers can?t use it for the games. Or, at least, they can?t use it for any required features. When you are guaranteed to have at least a 20 GB hard drive in the console, you can write your load caching routines around it, or use it for your application?s storage needs. To a developer, an optional hard drive is roughly equivalent to no hard drive at all.

Another advantage of the PS3 is that it will let you put in any third party hard drive you want. From a developer?s standpoint, this is good news because the market will gradually be able to support larger downloadable games over the course of the PS3?s life. As downloadable content gets larger and more sophisticated, PS3 owners can choose to buy larger hard drives at the best market price. The more this happens, the more developers will be encouraged to create better and better downloadable games.

7. The Wii Fad Will Fade
OK, this one?s going to be controversial, but I have to say it. I like Nintendo a lot. I think Nintendo has innovated far more than any other company in the industry. And I think the Wii is really, really fun. But? let me relate to you a story that may sound familiar:

Your friend Reggie invites you over for a Wii Party. It?s awesome. You and your friends partake in whatever beverages are legally appropriate for your age group. The next day everyone who went to the party rushes out and buys a Wii.

A week later Reggie hosts another Wii Party. This time only half the group comes. It?s still fun, but there isn?t quite as much shoving to get at the Wiimote.

The next week Reggie hosts another Wii Party. You tell him you have bird flu.

Obviously I?m exaggerating, but the Wii does have many characteristics of popular mainstream fads. It?s instantaneously accessible, it?s unlike anything you?ve tried before, and it?s great fun to share with friends. In short, it?s everything Nintendo said it would be and it has captured the world?s imagination. The only downside is that the world is easily distracted. Tickle Me Elmo captured the world?s attention at one point, as did Furbies. They were both instantly accessible, were unlike anything people had seen before, and were fun to share with friends. But a year later, after everyone had seen them and tried them out, their popularity waned.

The Wii is currently riding on a massive wave of mainstream attention and has been purchased by lots of people who don?t normally play games. But how many of those people who are hooked on Wii Sports will also buy Wii Need For Speed? Mainstream fads usually run their course within a year. As the honeymoon period fades, the Wii will be going up against more and more graphically impressive games on the PS3 and Xbox 360. More people will be buying HD televisions and looking for the most immersive and stunning experiences available. For these reasons, I think the Wii will be more successful than the GameCube or N64 but in the long run will still be outsold by the PS3.

8. PS3 Has a Major CPU Advantage
The GPUs on the Xbox 360 and PS3 are roughly equivalent, with the Xbox 360 arguably having a slight edge. The difference in CPU power, however, is far greater with the PS3 enjoying the advantage. The PS3?s eight parallel CPUs (one primary ?PPU? and seven Cell processors) give it potentially far more computing power than the three parallel CPUs in the Xbox 360. Just about any tech programmer will tell you that the PS3?s CPUs are significantly more powerful. The problem is that it has been challenging thus far to take advantage of the Cell?s parallel architecture.

With the PS2, Sony got away with making a fairly developer-unfriendly system, and its success allowed their hardware designers to ignore developer?s complaints as they made the PS3. People high up at Sony have realized that approach simply won?t work anymore and are trying to fix the problem. Sony is actively improving their libraries, tools and developer support in order to make PS3 development easier. They are giving first party developed techniques and code to third-party developers so that multi-platform games should start looking better on PS3.

Games developed from the ground up on PS3 are the ones that will really show off the PS3?s CPU advantage. The complexity of the distributed processing architecture means that PS3 engines won?t fully blossom until a little later in the lifecycle than the PS2. This has put the PS3 at a disadvantage early in its lifecycle, but within two years you will see games that surpass what is possible on the Xbox 360.

9. PS2 still outselling 360
I know, it?s outselling the PS3 by an even larger margin. But the continued strong PS2 sales really are a good thing for Sony. Anyone buying a PS2 at this point is probably not going to buy a PS3 or Xbox 360 in the next year. And when they do choose to buy the current generation of hardware, the PS3 will be in a lot better position. The price will have come down, the game library will be broad, and the top PS3 titles will probably have the edge in both graphics and sound. Just as important, the people buying into the PS2 now will be getting into many of Sony?s exclusive franchises that they will then later want to play on the PS3.

10. Something For Everyone
One of Sony?s biggest advantages is that it has strong franchises in every genre. Whereas Microsoft?s successful titles are mostly M-rated, and Nintendo?s are mostly E-rated, Sony has a big list of hit titles across the spectrum. When a 30-something gamer (like me) goes to buy a game console, it?s a lot easier to justify the purchase when there are games he can play with his kids as well as more mature stuff.

To Microsoft?s credit, they are doing a good job of catching up. The acquisition of Rare and the development of Viva Pinata have helped to broaden their spectrum. But it takes time to build a franchise, and Sony has been building their suite of titles for over a decade. Consider the breadth, success and critical acclaim of some of their exclusive properties: The Getaway, God of War, Gran Turismo, Hot Shots Golf, Jak and Daxter, Killzone, Ratchet & Clank, Shadow of the Colossus, Singstar, Sly Cooper, SOCOM, and Twisted Metal. These are all million-plus sellers worldwide that are either already announced or likely to appear on PS3. Add to this Sony?s new line up of first-party titles, including Heavenly Sword, Lair, Motorstorm, Resistance: Fall of Man, Uncharted and White Knight Story, and they have an even deeper and stronger line-up than what they had on PS2.


A lot of industry watchers and even a handful of publishers have been quick to write Sony off this generation, and I think that?s near-sighted. Sony has made a lot of decisions with the PS3 that may have slowed them down in the short run, but should give them a big advantage in the long run. The high price, hardware complexity, and the uncertainty of the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD format war have contributed to the PS3?s slow start out of the gate. But as the price drops, developers master the hardware, and Blu-Ray becomes the new DVD standard, Sony?s early disadvantages turn to advantages. As downloadable games become more common, the 60 GB hard-drive will be a big advantage to developers and consumers. As games get bigger and more sophisticated, Blu-Ray storage will increasingly become a major advantage. And as more and more of Sony?s exclusive first-party titles get released, the PS3 will begin to outsell the competition on a monthly basis. Those publishers who have shifted resources away from PS3 development will find themselves behind the curve and losing money as the market center gradually shifts toward the PS3 over the next two years.

I?m sure many of you may have comments about my point of view. If you do, please email [email protected] and I?ll do my best to respond. Also, I?ll be visiting the various forums to see what people think, including our own at www.insomniacgames.com (click on the community tab). Hope to see you there.

 

[Warbie]

Ah, Insomniac 'we're firmly in Sony's pocket' Games.

Those 10 points were both impartial and objective

 

[lePobz]

Yeah ... I don't listen to a word anyone says, never mind someone that's lived out of sonys pocket for the past 10 years. I'd be funny if he said the truth and said the PS3 had already flopped and wasn't worth developing for.

 

[Mutley]

I guess they've never made a bet before then.

 

[63]

Xbox xx will be out by then :|

 

[Lt. Drebin]

According to Retro, the Nintendo Wii will flop. Who'd a thunk it?? :|

 

[<RJMC>]

"hi,I am work in a developer of a very nice that sony payd tons of cash to add aliens in a call of duty and name whit the original title "resistance" and since sony is giving me a lot of money them I will say that the ps3 is the best thing in the world since the coming of christ and will cure aids,worlwide starvation,and stop the war,whit is respectedly overexagerated price and the great minds behind it,and if I dont say this sony will not give me that money,or maybe I wait till the contract ends and accept the microsoft offer but I cant so I said it,and wii will fail despite being the most sold next gen console right now thanks for listeing"

 

[smwScott]

I guess it is easier to brush him off than address his points isn't it?

Do any of you know why you're all circle jerking each other over the Sony bashing? Do you just do it because everyone else is? It's ****ing stupid.

 

[Cole]

smwScott. Sony was awesome with the Ps2. But the fact is many people around here feel that they ****ed up with the Ps3. They have lost tons of exclusives, made more pain on the developers, put out a super expensive system(especially outside of the U.S. and Japan), and then the whole Rootkit and DRM crap.

I mean hell I see a lot of Microsoft(Windows) bashing all over the place(not just here), few people accurately address the points. I don't see you commenting on that.

Microsoft on the other hand has done well with the 360. They have gained many exclusives, got there system out early, got there system out at a good price. If Microsoft didn't bring out the Xbox I doubt we'd see a hard drive in the Ps3 or a good online system in the Ps3.

smwScott, do you really want that everytime someone bashes the Ps3 we go through again and again on WHY. That every post we go through every single reason and get every single article on things Sony has been doing wrong. Many of us have posted why and gone into detail about Sony. We simply are to lazy to put all that info in every single post that bashes Sony. We now skip right to the "**** sony". Most of us know why we dislike Sony. Just because we don't put our reasons in every single post that bashes Sony doesn't mean that we are bandwagon jumping.

 

[Letters]

According to Retro, the Nintendo Wii will flop. Who'd a thunk it?? :|

Serious? Aren't they doing the Metroid Prime 3 game?

 

[Sebastian]

smwScott. Sony was awesome with the Ps2. But the fact is many people around here feel that they ****ed up with the Ps3. They have lost tons of exclusives, made more pain on the developers, put out a super expensive system(especially outside of the U.S. and Japan), and then the whole Rootkit and DRM crap.

I mean hell I see a lot of Microsoft(Windows) bashing all over the place(not just here), few people accurately address the points. I don't see you commenting on that.

Microsoft on the other hand has done well with the 360. They have gained many exclusives, got there system out early, got there system out at a good price. If Microsoft didn't bring out the Xbox I doubt we'd see a hard drive in the Ps3 or a good online system in the Ps3.

smwScott, do you really want that everytime someone bashes the Ps3 we go through again and again on WHY. That every post we go through every single reason and get every single article on things Sony has been doing wrong. Many of us have posted why and gone into detail about Sony. We simply are to lazy to put all that info in every single post that bashes Sony. We now skip right to the "**** sony". Most of us know why we dislike Sony. Just because we don't put our reasons in every single post that bashes Sony doesn't mean that we are bandwagon jumping.

The only major screw-up Microsoft has done is not having a built in HD-DVD player. I think this will catch up to them in the future, or they will get smart and include them with the system. Just think a year or two, HD-dvd players and what not will be relatively inexpensive (assuming HD-DVD lasts 2 years) and sensible to include with the console.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

All his points are just restatements of stuff we've been hearing for a long time.
"Wii is for kids. PS3 has graphics." etc.

They're the same not-good arguments we've heard before, except now from a company that sells mainly (entirely?) PS-exclusive titles.

 

[Stigmata]

Pretty much what MechaG and Cole said.

 

[destrukt]

1. Home; I won't say 'gimic' but you get the gist of what I'm getting at and comparing it to the Metaverse is an insult & LBP, yes, it looks awesome but a single game like this won't save the PS3.
2. I think it was Gamespot did an analysis of game size vs media vs console and according to that DVD should be sufficient. Also, having 50GB really, really isn't going to make much of a difference for a long time, I doubt even 3 years.
4. Game console, please.
5. Another null point.
6. Games can still take advantage of the HDD (Oblivion, anyone ?) while still catering to those with the Core pacakage. Also, take a look at sales of the 2 SKUs.
7. You can tell they're in bed with Sony and this more or less voids their argument.
8. For games ? Apparently, this guy says 'any programmer' will tell you the Cell is better yet we've seen numerous analysis (Like that ~30 page one) with very, very, very in-depth info on how the 360's CPU is better, for the most part.
9. It's also outselling the PS3, some months, like some months it's outselling the 360. Also, notice how raped the PS3 is in sales by the Wii ?
10. Viva Pinata, sports games, XBLA, etc.


I don't really care too much for the PS3 bashing (But bloody hell, it's an absolutely hideous console, I think it's worse than the Xbox -- how the hell do you come out with something as horribly designed as this ?) but these reasons are mostly clueless / lack much thought.

Also, it's from Insomniac.. next up we'll have Microsoft Game Studios or Bungie saying how the 360 will rock forever. They've made what, Spyro and Ratchet and Clank ? Why are they even considered a high level developer ?

These whole 10 reasons (Unless I'm mistaken or missed some words this is only 1 developer who is in bed with Sony, the title of this thread is very misleading) are just PR for Sony.

 

[Warbie]

I guess it is easier to brush him off than address his points isn't it?

Do any of you know why you're all circle jerking each other over the Sony bashing? Do you just do it because everyone else is? It's ****ing stupid.

'First of all, let me make it clear that Insomniac is a 100% independent development studio. Sony has neither endorsed nor authorized what I'm writing here.'

This pretence at impartiality so early on is quite telling, and one that becomes even more obvious as you continue to read.

(seriously, how is this guy any more reliable than someone from Bungie singing praises to Microsoft?)


1. I think Home & Little Big Planet look great, but seriously doubt they will have much impact on this war. (Very lame for the no.1 spot)

2. I personally think Xbox Live is superb value for money - something you'll find the majority of subscribers agree on. I'd rather pay for something as polished as this than get a lesser service for free. Maybe Sony will catch up, we'll see. (attacking the 360's trump card?)

3. You already know my views on this. I don't think disk size is going to be of much importance this generation. Infact, I think the sole reason it gets mentioned to this extent is because it's the one area the PS3 has an obvious advantage. Nice, but far from essential.

4. straws at clutching

5. My views on this are pretty much echoed in point 3. The amount of fuss over HDMI is silly. Brian talks about 'hardcore audio and videophiles' when he knows the difference between component and HDMI is negligible. Again, it would be nice to have HDMI (and those that are that bothered can get it), but the vast, vast majority of people couldn't give a toss (including many av enthusiasts).

6. A fair point (more so than those above). People with a core system get a lesser experience in certain games. Not a big deal imo - those who want to play Live and care about such things will undoubtedly have a HDD.

7. Predicting the failure of something which so far has been a an huge success smacks of bitterness. The second he mentions '10 years olds' Brian came across as a bit of a twat. The Wii gets more playtime in my house than any other console - and the youngest person who plays it is 27. I don't think the Wii will 'win' this generation. Will it be a contributing factor to Sony winning? of course it won't.

8. Another 'we'll see'. Easy to develop for vs raw power. I don't think anyone is quite sure how this will work out - if Brian was this point would appear far higher in the list.

9. Ah the PS2, where would Sony be without that? Nobody denies how massive the ps2 has been. Few also deny how much of a pig's ear Sony have made of the PS3 over the last year. PS2 sales making this list speaks volumes.

10. This isnt true yet for the PS3 - we'll see over time. There are certainly a crap load of people who get absolutely nothing from the PS2, PS3, 360 etc etc yet enjoy the Wii. Given the small library of games for the PS3, I can quite comfortably say this guy is talking a load of old rubbish at the moment. A rather obvious filler for the 10th spot.


So - a few minor points touched on, hearsay, and a healthy serving of poop.

 

[VictimOfScience]

I think it'll be the games that make it a winner. I know the 360 has some great "exclusives", but most of them will be on the PC too, so those of us that will be upgrading our PCs sometime in the next year or so will likely not have to worry about being able to play these "exclusive" titles. (Mass Effect is the obvious exclusive that will likely rock though, but that will also likely come to PC eventually.) The Wii will continue to do well, and will do even better once the serious Nintendo exclusives come out for it.

They will all do well (this won't be the landslide of the PS2 days), but I think in terms of a game console, the PS3 makes the most sense mostly in part to the games/franchises he lists in number 10 and Blu-ray, but especially if you already have a halfway decent PC.

 

[Warbie]

Above all that - it's brand loyalty that will make the PS3 a success. I know a number of people who had written off the 360 and Wii without researching or playing them once. There are droves off people waiting to upgrade their PS2.

 

[VictimOfScience]

Above all that - it's brand loyalty that will make the PS3 a success. I know a number of people who had written off the 360 and Wii without researching or playing them once. There are droves off people waiting to upgrade their PS2.

Yeah, I said those games because those are the ones I have grown to know and love, so I fall into that loyal category, though not blindly as I can wait to get a PS3 until some great great games drop or the price does--whichever comes first.

That said, I can't wait to get a Wii either, but I can wait easily until some seriously interesting titles (read: traditional point'n'click adventure games) come out, same with the 360 if it gets more exclusives that are not on the PC too.

 

[Warbie]

I hear what you're saying about 360 exclusives appearing on the pc, but of late more and more PS3 'exclusives' have been drifting over to the 360 too. If anything this is something that is likely to increase. Right now I don't feel the PS3 will more exclusives than the 360 (perhaps ones that you prefer, but that's a different discussion). It's also worth noting that the majority of the titles that the 360 will sharing with the PC are more suited to console/big screen gaming (imo anyways). If I had both a high end pc and 360 i'd be playing these games on the 360 out of choice.

 

[CyberPitz]

...
I'm still buying a PS3..;(

 

[IchI]

The Getaway: This game was not very good at all.
God of War: This game rocks
Gran Turismo: This game hasn't changed in 6 years Fonza 2 will change that on the 360.
Hot Shots Golf: LOL!
Jak and Daxter: Play Nintendo or Rare games if you want to play something like this.
Killzone: Killzone 1 sucked... I can't believe how people say Killzone is a killer franchise when there first game was terrible.
Ratchet Clank: Play Nintendo or Rare games if you want to play something like this.
Shadow of the Colossus: Amazing game, simple. But it took them a very long time to make.
Singstar: Huh?
Sly Cooper: Play Nintendo or Rare games if you want to play something like this.
SOCOM: Ghost Recon took them over god knows how long ago, Warfighter 2 rocks.
Twisted Metal: No one made a good car combat game since Vigilante 8 on the n64.

 

[Raxxman]

thing is, I really doubt the PS3 is a bad console.

I really think it'll be all kinds of awesome.

I don't think any console is worth the price the PS3 is

I don't see why the Europeans pay more for a hacked down version.

I think Sonys attitude of 'we're the biggest, and therefore the best, all worship us' is up there with Jacky boy in terms of insult to intelligence.

I think attacking the Wii is stupid, the console is all kinds of awesome and still really hard to get a hold of, unlike the PS3 (Take the fact that Play.com has PS3s in stock but still doesn't have Wiis).

I don't think HDMI is going to win this war, I think by the time significant numbers of HD Tvs are around the next gen will be out.

And from (admittedly short) time playing it, Resistance is not as good as GoW. (Yeah so that's just a low blow)

So yeah, PS3 will do alright despite cost, and Sony is stupid.

 

[Seppo]

I could imagine parents buying the PS3 to their kids instead of Xbox360 just because it's a more familiar name.

 

[Warbie]

Definately. My friends sister refers to all consoles as Playstations - something quite a few people do. It's much like people calling their vacuum cleaner the hoover.

 

[tehsolace]

I heard it was way too difficult to develop games for the PS3 and thats why a lot of developers aren't even releasing their new games for it...

 

[knut]

3 years? What the hell? What console takes 3 years to finally shine through? That's just retarded, it's as if they are thinking ''we'll just create half our consoles strong points over the next few years, theres no rush''

In 3 years, we'll probably be seeing a new Xbox, maybe even the next Nintendo, or possibly a new console altogether. :|

 

[smwScott]

1. I think Home & Little Big Planet look great, but seriously doubt they will have much impact on this war. (Very lame for the no.1 spot)

I would agree. I think Little Big Planet is going to be a GREAT game with endless replay, but unless it picks up and becomes really huge it probably won't rock the boat too much in terms of console sales. Home ... that could really go either way. It's a feature I personally don't care much about but that kind of social networking stuff has taken off in a big way recently, it really could sell consoles.

2. I personally think Xbox Live is superb value for money - something you'll find the majority of subscribers agree on. I'd rather pay for something as polished as this than get a lesser service for free. Maybe Sony will catch up, we'll see. (attacking the 360's trump card?)

Well, I don't, and most people agree with me. When you start accounting for X-BOX live and all this other crap MS nickel and dimes out of you then you realize the 360 isn't cheaper at all, and you're getting an inferior console IMO. Most people who own a 360 CAN'T play games online, they don't have Gold subscriptions. EVERYONE who owns a PS3 can play games online. Hell, I think the PS2 had a better online plan than the 360 simply because it's the difference between me being able to play games online or not. Not to mention the PS Network is more than competent in its' own right.

3. You already know my views on this. I don't think disk size is going to be of much importance this generation. Infact, I think the sole reason it gets mentioned to this extent is because it's the one area the PS3 has an obvious advantage. Nice, but far from essential.

Well ... I think it's pretty obvious that you're wrong. GoW2 couldn't fit on a dual layer DVD (which it filled to the max) and had to put the bonus modes on another disk. That's a PS2 game. But no, you're right, developers won't need more than 9GB for 360 games.

4. straws at clutching

How is the ability to play high definition movies clutching at straws? That was a main factor that made me want to buy a PS3 over a 360.

5. My views on this are pretty much echoed in point 3. The amount of fuss over HDMI is silly. Brian talks about 'hardcore audio and videophiles' when he knows the difference between component and HDMI is negligible. Again, it would be nice to have HDMI (and those that are that bothered can get it), but the vast, vast majority of people couldn't give a toss (including many av enthusiasts).

I agree that right now, HDMI isn't a huge deal. However, it's all about future proofing the console. The PS3 was built to last, the 360 was not. It will be increasingly more important, and it's all but necessary for Blu-Ray (when/if they implement that copy protection). Also, there was a noticeable improvement on my display when switching from component to HDMI.

6. A fair point (more so than those above). People with a core system get a lesser experience in certain games. Not a big deal imo - those who want to play Live and care about such things will undoubtedly have a HDD.

You're missing the point. Developers can't rely on the HDD because not everyone has it. That means the only benefit HDD users will see is some data cached to make load times faster or whatever. There will be no major features utilizing the HDD, ever. A bad mistake for MS.

7. Predicting the failure of something which so far has been a an huge success smacks of bitterness. The second he mentions '10 years olds' Brian came across as a bit of a twat. The Wii gets more playtime in my house than any other console - and the youngest person who plays it is 27. I don't think the Wii will 'win' this generation. Will it be a contributing factor to Sony winning? of course it won't.

I tend to agree with him, but it's only a matter of opinion. I think the thing is pretty overrated and not as much fun as various other "party" products. As for playing single player games ... I think it really sucks here to be honest. We'll see how it does in the long run.

8. Another 'we'll see'. Easy to develop for vs raw power. I don't think anyone is quite sure how this will work out - if Brian was this point would appear far higher in the list.

I'm not going to pretend to know anything about the inner workings of either console, so I can't really comment. Anyone who says they know which one is more powerful/better for an absolute fact and isn't a games developer is a twat regurgitating what they read somewhere else (or making shit up). This isn't directed at you BTW.

10. This isnt true yet for the PS3 - we'll see over time. There are certainly a crap load of people who get absolutely nothing from the PS2, PS3, 360 etc etc yet enjoy the Wii. Given the small library of games for the PS3, I can quite comfortably say this guy is talking a load of old rubbish at the moment. A rather obvious filler for the 10th spot.

It was true for the PS2 and those same franchises are carrying over, so logic stands to reason it'll be true for the PS3 as well.

Another point I'd like to bring up - and this is the BIGGEST reason why I don't like the 360 - is that they ****ing break like eggs. I personally know three people who have had 360s die on them, one of which is my roommate which means I can't play 360 games anymore. These things are made VERY BADLY. I would gladly pay an extra $100-$200 for a product that I can be halfway sure won't up and die on me.

Personally, I just like the PS3 better. There are others out there that prefer 360, and that's fine. What annoys me is the mindless, stupid bandwagon hoppers (of which most people here are). Sony makes an ad ... let's attack it. A bunch of MS reps act like immature douchebags at a launch party ... oh how clever!

That was a waste of 10 minutes, but **** it, was bored anyway. This will probably be my last post on the topic.

 

[knut]

Personally, I just like the PS3 better. There are others out there that prefer 360, and that's fine. What annoys me is the mindless, stupid bandwagon hoppers (of which most people here are). Sony makes an ad ... let's attack it. A bunch of MS reps act like immature douchebags at a launch party ... oh how clever!

It's opinions, people have them. Ask anyone why they dislike this or that and they can easily state their reason for not liking. Why don't I like the PS3? Because none of the games out or coming out intrest me. I'm not going to go into bollocks about power, HDTV or HD space or whatever, that's just it, plain and simple. I like the 360 because it has games I like. Again, plain and simple, but that's not that point; it's still a reason and I stand by it.

As far as I know, theres no proof at all that anyone that posts something negative about the PS3 is a 'mindless, stupid bandwagon hopper' - you have just happened to stumble across 3 or 4 people who offer a different opinion to you. Don't take it to heart, just roll on and ignore it if it bothers you. The way some of your posts come out in a PS3 topic after seeing a few negative opinions makes you come across as someone who can't take a few harmless remarks about something you like over the Internet.

 

[alehm]

This is all PR BS.

10 reason why the PS3 will be number 1 in three years?

Why not publish 10 reasons why the PS3 ISN'T the #1 console Today

Sony would be doing developers and gamers all a favor by focusing on that.

 

[Warbie]

Well, I don't, and most people agree with me. When you start accounting for X-BOX live and all this other crap MS nickel and dimes out of you then you realize the 360 isn't cheaper at all

'Most people', quite a sweeping statement.

Xbox Live is hugely popular. I can't speak for everyone, but i've certainly had more fun using Live over the last few years than playing pc games online, despite the latter being free. I'd actually pay more than the current subscription and not feel ripped off. The other 'nickel and dime' stuff you mention is a none issue. I pay my subscription and that's it. To write off Xbox Live makes really makes no sesne - it's one of the reasons the 360 is so popular, and one of the main reasons sooo many pc gamers have made the leap to consoles with such ease.

The other areas we disagree on are the usual - we've had the same debate a few times now.

I didn't actually enter this thread to debate which console is better, but rather to poke holes into this guys flimsy and biased suggestions - you must admit they were, on the whole, lame. Your point about a HDD as standard is valid, though, and I take back what I wrote.

tbh - all this speculation is rather pointless. The games will do the talking.

 

[CyberPitz]

'Most people', quite a sweeping statement.

Xbox Live is hugely popular. I can't speak for everyone, but i've certainly had more fun using Live over the last few years than playing pc games online, despite the latter being free. I'd actually pay more than the current subscription and not feel ripped off. The other 'nickel and dime' stuff you mention is a none issue. I pay my subscription and that's it. To write off Xbox Live makes really makes no sesne - it's one of the reasons the 360 is so popular, and one of the main reasons sooo many pc gamers have made the leap to consoles with such ease.

The other areas we disagree on are the usual - we've had the same debate a few times now.

I didn't actually enter this thread to debate which console is better, but rather to poke holes into this guys flimsy and biased suggestions - you must admit they were, on the whole, lame. Your point about a HDD as standard is valid, though, and I take back what I wrote.

tbh - all this speculation is rather pointless. The games will do the talking.

Agreed...but the only thing I want for the 360 any time soon is Guitar Hero...\=

 

[VictimOfScience]

Agreed...but the only thing I want for the 360 any time soon is Guitar Hero...\=

Just get a PS2 and save a few monetary units...

 

[smwScott]

'Most people', quite a sweeping statement.

Xbox Live is hugely popular. I can't speak for everyone, but i've certainly had more fun using Live over the last few years than playing pc games online, despite the latter being free. I'd actually pay more than the current subscription and not feel ripped off. The other 'nickel and dime' stuff you mention is a none issue. I pay my subscription and that's it. To write off Xbox Live makes really makes no sesne - it's one of the reasons the 360 is so popular, and one of the main reasons sooo many pc gamers have made the leap to consoles with such ease.

The other areas we disagree on are the usual - we've had the same debate a few times now.

I didn't actually enter this thread to debate which console is better, but rather to poke holes into this guys flimsy and biased suggestions - you must admit they were, on the whole, lame. Your point about a HDD as standard is valid, though, and I take back what I wrote.

tbh - all this speculation is rather pointless. The games will do the talking.

When I say most people I was comparing the number of Gold subscriptions to the number of consoles sold. Remember, the number that MS throws around for X-BOX Live subscriptions includes both the original X-BOX and 360 and still isn't close to the installed base. Whether or not you think it's worth it, these people don't - if I owned a 360 I'd be one of them. They get no online game functionality at all with their 360, wouldn't you at least admit that the PS3 online plan would be a better choice for them (the majority of X-BOX owners)?

I can join up, play games, use a working buddy list, use the headset/mic, instant matchmaking/lobby system, rankings are available for most games ... what am I missing out on that's worth $270? When Home comes out the gap between them will narrow even further ... possibly even pushing the PSN ahead. Even if it doesn't, I can't see how anyone could justify the price difference.

 

[knut]

I can. 360 has games I want to play, the PS3 doesn't. The only game I can think of that offers anything compared to the games I play on the 360, and that's Resistance, and after seeing a 16 min video of the gameplay I'll pass on that offer thank you very much.

 

[Cole]

Well ... I think it's pretty obvious that you're wrong. GoW2 couldn't fit on a dual layer DVD (which it filled to the max) and had to put the bonus modes on another disk. That's a PS2 game. But no, you're right, developers won't need more than 9GB for 360 games.

Because you'd have a faster processor in the 360 you could do some nifty compression methods that you couldn't do on the Ps2 because it would take an hour to load the damn game. This will result in a lower amount of space.

I'd also like to point out that often a multiple file technique are used to increase access times at the cost of disc space. This is unneeded in the upcoming generation due to discs can be read much faster than the last.

It was true for the PS2 and those same franchises are carrying over, so logic stands to reason it'll be true for the PS3 as well.

Quite a few are going multi-console becuase they need to bring in a lot more cash compared to before. The average game on the Ps2 costed around 800 thousand to make? Now try maybe 10 even 40 million.



The Ps3 may have been built to last but by the time Blu-Ray hits big and HD is all around us.. I will be able to go to Wal-Mart and buy a Blu-Ray player for 40 bucks. I can wait for HD content, it really is not that big of a deal to me.

When it comes to HDMI. Thats great. I don't care if the image and audio looks a little clearer when i'm playing the game. I play the game because theres a part of my brain that can't tell the difference between things I do and things I see. When I'm shooting a gun in the game this part of my brain builds up a rush similar to that as if I was shooting a gun. I don't play the game because of how clear it looks. HDMI really wont alter much for me.

I can join up, play games, use a working buddy list, use the headset/mic, instant matchmaking/lobby system, rankings are available for most games ... what am I missing out on that's worth $270? When Home comes out the gap between them will narrow even further ... possibly even pushing the PSN ahead. Even if it doesn't, I can't see how anyone could justify the price difference.

The Games.

Also Live is a more restricted and unified implementation on the developer side compared to Sonys. This is to help insure quality with Live.

 

[Warbie]

wouldn't you at least admit that the PS3 online plan would be a better choice for them (the majority of X-BOX owners)?

I guess it depends on how many of them have access to broadband and also want to play online, but aren't prepared to pay the subsciption. I doubt many fall into that category.

tbh I haven't taken the PS3 online - I know people who have to rate Live as the better service, but won't make any more comments untill i've experienced it first hand. I can say that Xbox Live is (for me anyways) superior to online pc gaming.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

Serious? Aren't they doing the Metroid Prime 3 game?

Sarcasm. Haha.

I'll just add, this is far and away the worst sales start to any Sony console ever. I can remember not being able to find a PS2 for like a year. http://ps2.ign.com/articles/080/080661p1.html ...and that's what it's all about. That's one GD solid launch line-up. Sony rushed and now they are paying for it. The games aren't there. And now their losing exclusives. AND, on top of that, the thing is F***ing expensive. It's obvious they're not giving consumers enough reasons to purchase it.

At the same time, you can't say that the PS3 is a bad console, it's not. But, i don't think it will ever catch what the PS2 accomplished for them....

After 3 years:
1. Wii
2. X360
3. PS3

 

[Steel.Inferno]

I predict the PC will be better than all of them in three years.

Doesn't make me right, but it's about as justified as some of his points equaling later success.

I really hope the PC is better than the PS3 in three years, since it very soon will surpass it graphically and that is pretty much all the console offers.

 

[Warbie]

I actually thought the launch lineup for the PS2 was truly awful - the good games soon cam rolling in but initially I had absolutely nothing worth playing.