Did HL2 feel like a new game rather than a Sequel to you?

[subtlesnake]

OK, that's really stretching it.

It's simply a control limitation.

Obviously it can talk, if the developers give it some lines. It worked in the eighties, it should work now.

I want to be Gordon. Me alone.

It's no fun when somebody else is in control.

Giving Gordon dialogue is not exactly rocket science for game developers.

There are plenty of other games where you get to control an avatar. Half-life is special because you can be yourself.

 

[StAtiC]

It just depends on what you're looking for in a game.

Maybe you all forgot to read that last part.

 

[CriYam]

i dont know if anyones posted this, but theres the story of HL1 and HL2...



http://members.shaw.ca/storage_4/hl2story/ :O

Please, no more of this. It's just creative fantasy, not fact.

 

[KagePrototype]

Please, no more of this. It's just creative fantasy, not fact.

Marc Laidlaw said it was "pretty darn accurate", I'm sure that's enough to justify it.

 

[KoreBolteR]

Please, no more of this. It's just creative fantasy, not fact.

..LOL, the game is a fantasy :farmer:

 

[StAtiC]

Well, I give up. Pure Halo2/Doom3 fanboyism on this thread.

 

[Spartan]

Half-life is special because you can be yourself.

No I can't. I can't talk or make decisions that affect the story. In an RPG, I can make decisions based on my own values and preferences. Half-Life 2 should have been an RPG. Either that or giving us a main character who can talk and ask obvious questions. Or, just reverting back to Half-Life's style.

What's your point?

Point: if you think HL2 requires imagination, you've never played a text adventure.

 

[Spartan]

Well, I give up. Pure Halo2/Doom3 fanboyism on this thread.

Halo 2 has been mentioned maybe once (if at all). Doom 3 hasn't been mentioned once, I think.

So what precisely are you trying to say?

 

[KagePrototype]

Point: if you think HL2 requires imagination, you've never played a text adventure.

What? Just because text adventures requires a lot of imagination, doesn't mean HL2 doesn't, even if text adventures require more. Either you're using some odd form of logic, or I still don't understand your point.

 

[SystemShock2]

I kinda agree. One thing that i think there shoulda been was boss battles. I loved fighting the gargantua, the tentacle, the giant bug and scorpian thing in op force, the gonarch and nahilanth. Those were great battles. I didn't have as much excitement in fighting dropships and the other things in half life 2. I think i didn't think half life 2 was told as well was because it was all over the place. In half life, you learned all about black maesa and how the soldiers took over. In half life 2 there were many different places and you didn't really learn about the combine much. i really don't know. I found the way half life was told much more satifisfying but i don't really know why

 

[StAtiC]

Half-Life 2 should have been an RPG

You mean, More Like an RPG? Was hl an RPG? No. So what made you think it would be different. They say "Your actions effect your sorroundings" as a linear game-style. Your actions (Destroying the Citadel, Liberating the Xen Race) effect the story, and how the characters see you. They see you as a hero/celebirty.

 

[Spartan]

You mean, More Like an RPG? Was hl an RPG? No. So what made you think it would be different. They say "Your actions effect your sorroundings" as a linear game-style. Your actions (Destroying the Citadel, Liberating the Xen Race) effect the story, and how the characters see you. They see you as a hero/celebirty.

Uh, that happens in every game. You do something, and something happens. When you rescue the princess in Super Mario, she's grateful. And so on. It's all scripted, not voluntary.

What? Just because text adventures requires a lot of imagination, doesn't mean HL2 doesn't, even if text adventures require more. Either you're using some odd form of logic, or I still don't understand your point.

It's like pointing at Doom and saying how cool its graphics are, when people are playing Doom 3.

 

[StAtiC]

And that's my point.... what made you think HL2 would be different?

 

[Spartan]

And that's my point.... what made you think HL2 would be different?

I never thought that HL2 would be different. I thought it would be the same, but it wasn't. It used the same narrative style, but this time it didn't work on any level.

 

[StAtiC]

Thank you

 

[subtlesnake]

No I can't. I can't talk or make decisions that affect the story. In an RPG, I can make decisions based on my own values and preferences. Half-Life 2 should have been an RPG. Either that or giving us a main character who can talk and ask obvious questions. Or, just reverting back to Half-Life's style.

If Valve wanted 'Gordon' to know these things they would tell him directly. The 'not being able to speak aspect' isn't the limitation.

Even if the character could speak, I doubt very much Valve would make him particularily inquisitive. And I recognise that my means of expression are limited but it still feels like me that's going through the experience.

Perhaps Valve's method does need to be refined, but we don't need to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Hopefuly in HL3 we'll be given a bit more meat.

 

[KagePrototype]

It's like pointing at Doom and saying how cool its graphics are, when people are playing Doom 3.

No it's not, no one is saying that HL2 requires more imagination than text adventures, only that it requires imagination.

 

[Spartan]

Even if the character could speak, I doubt very much Valve would make him particularily inquisitive. And I recognise that my means of expression are limited but it still feels like me that's going through the experience.

Gordon would be asking a lot of questions.

Perhaps Valve's method does need to be refined, but we don't need to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Hopefuly in HL3 we'll be given a bit more meat.

Valve's method is exactly what needs to be refined.

 

[subtlesnake]

Gordon would be asking a lot of questions.

And if Valve didn't want to give out the answers, they wouldn't. Alyx might say "it's a long story" and Eli might give out a few fairly obvious details about the Combine.

 

[Spartan]

And if Valve didn't want to give out the answers, they wouldn't.

In that case, Valve would be guilty of poor, illogical and unrealistic storytelling.

 

[Narcolepsy]

No it's not, no one is saying that HL2 requires more imagination than text adventures, only that it requires imagination.

Thank God for you Peter, thank God for you. Logic is great.

 

[charleski]

"Story? What story?"

Sorry, but that just about sums up HL2 from my perspective.
The problem starts with the beginning. Ok, we get the G-Man giving his cryptic little speech, uhuh, then we're dumped in City 17. Hmmm, ok... Have a little chat with Barney in which he answers no questions whatsoever, then we're out in the plaza. So by now we know that some nasty force has taken control (but hey, didn't I wipe out the nasties on Xen in HL1, so what gives?) and everyone seems pretty miserable. So, uh, I wander around trying to find out how I can start to shoot stuff (!) until I find that the only place that's not blocked off is a block of flats. Why do I go in there? Because there's nowhere else to go! After a bit the police start chasing me because I'm not supposed to be there. They keep chasing me until Alyx rescues me. Uh, ok, thanks I suppose. We go to Kleiner's and he talks a bit, looks like there's some sort of resistance, but why should I care? Who is Kleiner and why should I care about this resistance? Things happen and again I'm running away from stuff trying to kill me, but why should I care about getting to Eli's place? Who is he apart from a guy with a pretty daughter?

That's the story for the first third of HL2. And it just carries on like that. There's no sense of personal involvement, you're just running because there's nowhere else to go.

Sure, there are hints to things happening under the surface, and you can make up your own story like Half Life Saga does (how is the G-Man an "agent of an interstellar rebel alliance" btw, when one of the few things that's clear in HL2 is that Freeman has been sent back to Earth on some sort of contract which Breen attempted to buy off). But the cold hard fact is - there's really nothing there. When I buy a book I don't expect to find that 3/4 of the pages are blank, but that's the status of the 'story' in HL2.

HL1 was completely different. First it started with the excellent scene-setting of the first 2 chapters. Ok, you don't want to play them again and again, but they left you knowing who you were and why you were there. This was followed up throughout the game - you were running TO places rather than simply moving to the next level because there was nowhere else to go - you had to get to the surface, had to get to the Lambda complex to launch the missile, etc. HL2 just doesn't give you the same sort of motivation.

Whoever wrote the supposed story to HL2 failed to recognise the difference between enigma and obscurity. Sorry, but the fact that people are trying to defend it with lines like "Valve gives you a skeleton, a rough outline of the plot, and you fill it in with your own creativity," just points to the fact that there's nothing there to start with.

The rest of the game was great, and unlike many I had no problems with the ending (possibly because I didn't have to cheat and go into god mode to defeat some OMFG mega-boss which was the part I least liked about HL1). It was the beginning that failed to satisfy.

 

[Narcolepsy]

It's weird, because I thought the beginning was the strongest part of the entire game, and had the most story.

 

[rocklegendfm99]

you want too much

 

[songwriter]

As I said. The first things I said.

For action to be convincing it has to the result of interaction between the characters, their conflicts, their dilemmas. Yes, there is a sketch of a conflict here but that's all it remains, a sketch and so we're left watching a gamer move his characters around as though he's a chess master.

HL1 had it.
HL2 didn't.

 

[Warbie]

As I said. The first things I said.

For action to be convincing it has to the result of interaction between the characters, their conflicts, their dilemmas. Yes, there is a sketch of a conflict here but that's all it remains, a sketch and so we're left watching a gamer move his characters around as though he's a chess master.

HL1 had it.
HL2 didn't.

I fully agree.

But the gameworld, for what it is, is still fantastic.

 

[Wildhound]

I'm utterly in awe at the fact that people are annoyed that it wasn't a re-hash. Amazing!

 

[HadouKen24]

There have been some fair points made about the problems with the Half-Life 2 storyline. It could have been better, I'll admit. It would have been nice to understand things a little better. But the game doesn't focus on them. The question is: why not? How can Gabe Newell stand there with a straight face and say that they're advancing storytelling if Half-Life 2 has these weaknesses?

Well, my answer is that he can because they are.

Half-Life 2 isn't here to hit you with a story, an explanation of a series of events. It's here to drop you in a world you know almost nothing about. It's fully realized, and there's a whole lot more here than meets the eye. Although the way the game pushes you from area to area does seem a bit artificial, it gives this world an expansive feel. You know that there is more to this world created by Valve than you can get to, because you can see glimpses of it all through the game.

I could tell from playing the game that there were two major concerns here: making the world realistic and making the gameplay fun. Sometimes the two didn't mesh as well as they could have. Everything in the game that didn't directly affect gameplay--from the facial expressions and excellent voice acting to the graffiti and bits of trash in the corners--made you feel as if you were really there. That is what Valve was trying to do, and they did it well.

 

[ScRaTcH-A-HoLiC]

I never thought that HL2 would be different. I thought it would be the same, but it wasn't. It used the same narrative style, but this time it didn't work on any level.

I think it worked on every lvl..

 

[Spartan]

Half-Life 2 isn't here to hit you with a story, an explanation of a series of events.

That's precisely what HL2 attempts to do, and fails.

 

[subtlesnake]

HL2 never hits you with the story, nor was that what Laidlaw wanted. He wanted the story to be something that the player can explore on his own. Maybe they didn't give you enough to explore, that's a criticism of the implimentation.

But I think HL2's narrative style is very appealing.

 

[HadouKen24]

That's precisely what HL2 attempts to do, and fails.

How myopic.

It gives you just enough detail to understand that this world is logically coherent. Enough to immerse you and let you know that there's more going on than you know about. That you don't know is a bit frustrating, but if answering those questions was what HL2 was about, then they would have answered them. The Valve team isn't stupid. Laidlaw isn't stupid. They would have done it if that was a priority with them.

That they didn't is a gigantic clue that it wasn't. Instead, we see what they did do: create a world and immerse you in it. You're focusing on what you didn't like about it, but failing to recognize that they succeeded in a major way in another area. The fact that you care so much about the answers to the questions shows that they sucked you in so well that it was invisible to even you that you were sucked in. That's what happened to me, anyway.

Personally, I found that the mild confusion and disorientation that I felt added to the experience. Everyone was treating me as a savior figure, here to pull down the power structure of the Citadel. They thought I was the free man. But at the same time, I was a puppet being controlled by the G-man, who can basically do anything with me that he wants. I found the tension intriguing, and I can't wait to see how it's resolved in HL3.

And I imagine that there are things in that game that even a perceptive player would miss several times that give us more clues about what's going on.

 

[subtlesnake]

Well said.

 

[duckmoose]

BAH! I gave up on this thread after 8 pages so excuse me if this is outdated or whatever.

When they say that Gordon is quiet or, "Let me do all the talking" it's just a JOKE! Ever heard of a little something called tongue-in-cheek???

Anyway, I can understand why some people didn't like the story. I DID like it, and its narrative style, so I'm a lucky one.

You see, I often PREFER to not have things spoon-fed to me. But that tends to happen when you're raised in a Conservative, capitalist society with conservate, capitalist beliefs, unlike a lot of you socialist bastards. I hope the Democratic party chokes on its own filth.

Well that's all I have to say about that.

 

[Kakashi]

Why bring up old threads?

 

[Mannex17]

I don't know if anyone has said this already, but Half-Life 2 reminded me of the Matrix: Reloaded (Not in crappiness, but how it compares to the first Half-Life). I mean, The Matrix had a lot more to it, and it felt perfect (HL1), but Matrix Reloaded had a lot more action, and it had a lot more special effects and looked better. I'm thinking that HL3 will end up like Matrix: Revolutions. Better than the 2nd in the trilogy and almost matching the first. The 3rd matrix had basically all the good special effects from the second one (Source Engine), and summed up the story from the cliffhanger at the end of Reloaded (like the cliffhanger in HL2).

There's my two cents.

 

[Kakashi]

lol this thread should just get burried now..... its been dug up from pages long from here. Don't bring old threads back :dozey:

 

[Sid Burn]

well to stop confusion... you can visit this site for an almost complete info about HL1 and HL2...

http://fragfiles.org/~hlstory//timeline.htm

 

[duckmoose]

Wow. I just looked at the dates. I don't even remember how I found this thread.

Well, my bad, I don't know if I clicked a link in another thread or what. Yes this thread now deserves to be condemned to the abysmal vortex of the long forgotten.

 

[Xune]

Likening Half Life to the Matrix, in terms of delivery raises some interesting questions.

Have Valve deliberately been obtuse in their story telling, or have they merely said "Hay if we leave that out we can spin it off into an expansion pack".

I certainly hope it isn't the latter, although the signs don't look good with two book publications, purported to be "essential to the gaming experience". Anyone remember the Animatrix and the awful Matrix game released with Reloaded?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The story of Half Life has the potential for truely great things, but I sincerely hope that Valve don't pull a Wachowski.