Discussion on the 7 Hours War.

[madog]

Does it seem right that all the armies of the world surrendered to the combine in 7 hours? Don't you think with all the technology and large forces the big nations of this world have, that we could last longer than 7 hours? The combine are a powerful enemy indeed and they would definitely overrun this planet, but I think they would have more trouble than a 7 hour sweep. If a bunch of thrown together rebels with no combat experience can cause such a blow to the combine as in city 17, how come the American Army or great armies like that did not give the combine much trouble? It seems power is unevenly scaled but please explain to me the answer to this question if you have it.

 

[d00d]

Its because when Gordon wields any weapon it magically gains +infinte in power and firing rate. But other than that, the world could survive more than 7 hours but VALVe decided to throw some sensationalism into the game. :E

 

[XIII]

lol..and those 12 million chinesses all lost to combine in 7 hours..incredable

 

[Jerry_111]

I could see it. We're talking about a vastly superior alien civilization that can travel through DIMENSIONS to entirely new universes, for crying out loud.

 

[Operational]

I could see it. We're talking about a vastly superior alien civilization that can travel through DIMENSIONS to entirely new universes, for crying out loud.

I agree. Its hard to position your forces when the enemy is all around you.

As I understand it once Earth surrendered the bulk of the combine army left.

 

[TheGMan.]

EPM Bombs could've easily destoryed all earth like armies.

 

[function9]

Does it seem right that all the armies of the world surrendered to the combine in 7 hours? Don't you think with all the technology and large forces the big nations of this world have, that we could last longer than 7 hours? The combine are a powerful enemy indeed and they would definitely overrun this planet, but I think they would have more trouble than a 7 hour sweep. If a bunch of thrown together rebels with no combat experience can cause such a blow to the combine as in city 17, how come the American Army or great armies like that did not give the combine much trouble? It seems power is unevenly scaled but please explain to me the answer to this question if you have it.

Really though, what tech? I'm not a military buff or anything so I could be wrong, but probably the most advanced or deadliest weapon we have (or had at the time of the invasion) is nuclear and I think to use enough of that to inflict any damage on the Combine wouldn't be too good for us humans.

Our military strategies and weapons are designed to fight other humans that carry the same or lesser strategy and weaponry. We haven't witnessed firsthand the strength of the Combine yet, yes we have seen the effects of their power but we were absent when they were here in full force. Remember that when we (Gordon) arrive and the uprising begins, the Combine basically have a "skeleton crew" working here on earth I believe. So we're not facing a Combine that's in full force. I expect that to change in one of the coming episodes.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

According to RtB, Eli's presentation origanally showed that nukes didn't even scratch the Citadels, inside or out.

 

[Man|-|unter]

it's the matter of enhanced Power and Technology that Combine have and help them to defeat us in just 7 hours, which is still not shown in Half Life series.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Um, Striders, hunters, gunships, dropships, crab synths, manhacks, scanners 1 and 2, and all kinds of other stuff are shown to us, and they would've been in the 7-hour war (Hunters might not be cause the rebels don't seem to knwo what it is).
But yes, we didn't see the Combine's full might even during the 7-hour war.

 

[Man|-|unter]

yes that what I mean, they still have to show their full power or whatever technology they have.

 

[Tagaziel]

The most important advantege the Combine has over us is mobility. An M1 Abrams can go 70 km/h and that's fast for an MBT. How fast can go a running Strider? I assume at least 100 km/h. The walking pace we see in Half-Lifes are because of the urban setting they fight in, and they can't run, due to space constraints. So, they can easily outmaneuver our armed forces.

Our gunships, namely the AH-64 Apaches, RAH-66 Comanches, Mi-24 Hinds et consortes, are all designed mainly to counter enemy armor, and, given their maneuverability, a pack *might* just take down a single Strider. The Combine has an easy solution to it, taking on the shape of the most powerful air-to-ground combat entity witnessed in games, combining high power Gauss cannon with extreme speed and maneuverability as well as armor.
A single well-placed rocket takes down a human gunship. At least three to five Surface-to-Ground rockets are needed to destroy a Combine Gunship.
Plus, compare the agility of the Gunship to, let's say, RAH-66 Comanche. Compared, the Comanche is like a legless monkey without the sense of touch, while the Gunship is a rabid chimpanzee on steroids.

Last, examine how radically different the logistics are. Humanity requires C-130 Herculeses, Antonovs etc. to ferry large quantities of armor and ordnance, while the Combine utilizes simply Dropships with Containers or simply carrying the Striders in question. The speedof the Dropship makes it possible for it to make the insertion in the middle of a military base, and usually the Combine does not use just a single Strider. As evidenced by the battle at the Citadel's Gates, in high-profile actions there are at least three Striders operating simultaneously.
Aditionally, Strider being a part-organic walking tank, has none of the disadvantages of our human armoured vehicles. It doesn't rust, it doesn't need truckloads of fuel to start up (Abrams gobbles down 50 litres as an aperitif) and it is not restricted by terrain obstacles when moving. Plus, as I mentioned in another thread, it is towering high and can simple stand on top of the Abrams, not to mention punch through it or fire it's singularity cannon at point-blank range vaporizing the crew.

So, all things considered, the Combine cut through us like hot knife through butter.

Last note, did you notice in the traffic tunnels beneath City 17, the relic of the 7 hour war, a rusted APC resting on the debris?

Allright, carry on now.

-- Mikael Grizzly, self-proclaimed Half-Life military analyst

 

[Remus]

This has been discussed many times, and I for one still think that if the Combine only used Striders, Gunships etc. (meaning the things we see in the game) in the 7h war our primitive military would've laid the smack down on them. So I want to see some of those super weapons they have in future episodes.

A question that's been nagging me lately is this: OK the portal storms weakened the military and everyone was forced to retreat within the larger cities and then the citadels materialised in the middle of those cities and began to pore out troops. Fine and dandy but, the milion dolar question is how the heck did they know where to materialize the citadels?! For all they knew they could've teleported a citadel on top of a mountain, or the bottom of the ocean . That is unless they sent some recon teams before the invasion started, or they got their strategic info from someone here ( maybe Breen:O ). I find it irritating that all of you assume that they just "knew" where to put them. How could they? They've never been here before.

 

[0mar]

I'm sure the bulk of the Combine invasion force was moved off-world after Earth was pacified. Striders seem more like urban pacification than actual battlefield deployments (although seeing that new Ep2 trailer makes me think otherwise). Gunships make great anti-infantry weapons, plus they can take a massive amount of punishment (3-7 rockets, not to mention the ability to shoot rockets down). We also haven't seen any real Combine artillery outside of the headcrab rockets (very effective biological and psychological weapons).

 

[Remus]

Our gunships, namely the AH-64 Apaches, RAH-66 Comanches, Mi-24 Hinds et consortes, are all designed mainly to counter enemy armor, and, given their maneuverability, a pack *might* just take down a single Strider

Are you insane?! One Apache has enough firepower to obliterate 12 tanks! So how the hell can you say a pack of gunships "maybe" could take down one Strider? In the game it takes 6 or 7 RPG shots to destroy a Strider, well rocket propelled grenades are relatively weak, Apaches shoot long range missiles designed to rip apart even the most thick armor, not to mention they also have depleted uranium chain guns. My point is this: you said Striders are very agile, yes they are but even if by some miracle it managed to dodge 6 missiles fired at him it would still be ripped to shreds by the chain guns.

The Combine has an easy solution to it, taking on the shape of the most powerful air-to-ground combat entity witnessed in games, combining high power Gauss cannon with extreme speed and maneuverability as well as armor.
A single well-placed rocket takes down a human gunship. At least three to five Surface-to-Ground rockets are needed to destroy a Combine Gunship.

Hmm... what exactly is the range of those automatic gauss cannons eh? Maybe 1 or 2 Km, our gunships don't have to get that close to take out a target. It's true most gunships can be taken out by one rocket, but in the game (like I said in the case of the strider) you shoot rocket propelled grenades which are much weaker then the missiles that our gunships use.
Take this scenario: A Combie gunship is patrolling an area, an incoming Apache detects it on radar and fires a burst of 12 missiles at it from well over 100 km. The gunship notices the missiles and tries to take evasive action and shoot them down, but they have much more speed then those rocket propelled grenades, it manages to shoot 4 of them at long range, it dodges few but is obliterated by the rest.

 

[Man|-|unter]

Whatever weapon or Gunship, Strider, Manhack, Dropship etc., Combine have doesn't matter, We have Gravity Gun the only one weapon will let Combine down. Amen!

 

[Shift]

Oh man not this topic again, this has been discussed too many times now, and you are going to attrack all the military experts here which we dont want lol.

Basically, as piggy said, when we arrive in City 17 we are merely fighting an occupation force, we have not even witnessed the Combine strength at full force. When the Combine attacked, literally overnight, the Citadels were teleported in an dug into the major cities, these were used as mobolization zones for the Combine armies to be teleported in, in their millions. They achieved complete suprise, using the Portal Storms as a smoke screen; the worlds armies would have been fully focused on dealing with these wierd alien creatures that just seem to appear everywhere randomly. Then all of a sudden, all the worlds major cities are captured overnight and the Combine move out in the open, apart from the fact that with the continous teleportation of Combine forces, the Combine's technology would have outmatched those of the worlds armies. We are talking about thousands of Combine Gunships and Striders and all matter of impressive arsenal, not to mention the millions of highly developed and alien soldiers, the worlds armies wouldn't have stood a chance. Thats when what remained of the world's population feld to the cities, and what is now known as the Outland is a very dangerous area. Once Earth was defeated, the Combine would teleported their main attacking force back to their universe and left a occupation force, so we are no way fighting a fully strength Combine army at all.

 

[Tagaziel]

...while the 20+ other Gunships in the area find that Apache and the chopper goes boom-boom.

Seriously, the Seven Hour War lasted seven hours for a *reason*, that reason being overwhelming Combine forces. As I can see, you can't free yourself from the human vs. human mindset. The Combine ain't human, and it is a multi-planet empire, with an unimaginable military potential. We are just a single planet, with technology that can be considered medieval to the Combine.

They would not deploy a single gunship. As it can be seen during the run through City 17 rooftops, in urban setting they are deployed in pairs, in my opinion a "buddy system". A similiar situation occurs on top of the Citadel. Two flying monstrosities, protecting each other. You might ask, why is it that at the coast we encounter one Gunship at a time. It's simple, the coastline is a large space to cover, and, seeing how the Combine maintains a skeleton crew, the synths have to be deployed separately in order to cover the coast more effectively. However, once we reach Nova Prospekt's inner courtyard, they are deployed in a buddy system, and the fight is *immensely* hard.

Another point in favour of the Gunship is it's construction. The cannon is linked directly to it's brain, and can be fired independently of the flight path. All weapons of human choppers are crude compared to this, as they need to be fired manually through a "workaround", not directly like the Gunship does. Plus, thanks to this they have a pin-point accuracy, more than enough to take down 12 missiles, just look at the ease they take down RPGs fired head on. While Apache missiles have a much greater velocity, they are just as delicate, and can't execute the corkscrew maneuver to my knowledge, which is the basis of taking down a Gunship.

As for the Striders, I've mentioned them, because unlike human tanks, they can crudely protect them from an air assault, but the bulk of air defence would go to Gunships, who would have to protect the invading Striders.

Back on-topic, the Apache would have to find a safe spot 100 km away from the fight, and given the swarming Combine military, that can be tough. Or even impossible. The Combine has immense military power, so why can't it have advanced radars or even sensors to find military hardware, and chopper isn't a small thing, easy to hide. The rotors, noise, heat emission... the disturbance of air... finally, a non-stealth construction won't allow the gunship to hide for long, until the 20+ Gunships find them and destroy the attacker.

Of course, there are also the Crab and Mortar synths, but given that they are yet to demonstrate their combat performance, I've left them out of the calculation.

Lastly, I do not believe that the Citadel's arrived first, first they would quite propably send a heavy insertion squad to set up a... well... let's name it beacon, that would mark the teleportation destination, all within the first hour. Charged teleporters, wham, the second hour a Citadel arrives, and as was said, the onslaught begins.

Side-note: All military experts here are experts on human vs. human warfare, not human vs. evil multi-dimension empire with limitless resources and military warfare. Just a note.

 

[Asknoone]

The main Combine offensive (and that means pretty much all) was moved off-world once was order was restored. Synth soldiers, synth tanks and a whole load of other alien monstrosities. Not to mention thousands and thousands of Striders and Gunships. Earth had already endured weeks, maybe months of portal storms. We didn't stand a chance.

 

[Shift]

Not to mention that the Citadels could make literally unlimited Gunships, Striders and arnaments. All in all, they were fighting weakened armies from the Portal Storms, and just kept sending in wave upon wave of forces. Thats why the only way the resistance on earth will gain a victory, is by cutting off the link way from Earth to the Combine universe completely, then destroying the the occupation forces which they can do if all of the cities rebel and form up into an army.

 

[Man|-|unter]

Not to mention that the Citadels could make literally unlimited Gunships, Striders and arnaments. All in all, they were fighting weakened armies from the Portal Storms, and just kept sending in wave upon wave of forces. Thats why the only way the resistance on earth will gain a victory, is by cutting off the link way from Earth to the Combine universe completely, then destroying the the occupation forces which they can do if all of the cities rebel and form up into an army.

Amen!

 

[Mesz]

Human armed forces are not trained to fight aliens, as in HL1 the vortigaunts usually kicked the Marine's sorry asses, (exception with Shepherd), that's why we failed so badly, plus it would have gone on longer if Dr.Breen hadn't managed Earth's surrender. The Black Mesa incident was the first encounter with alien lifeforms on Earth. I reckon we should have just shot the entire planet's worth of nukes into the portals when they opened, and maybe Earth's scientists should have developed an atomic/nuclear/OMGROFLMAOWTFBBQ/headcrab missile that would have brought complete hell to the Combine homeworld, overunning it with Xen wildlife. Just like Earth. Imagine a headcrabbed Combine slug, there'd be no moaning just the slug limping about with a headcrab attached to it's face

EDIT: I do hope people realize that they could only send through synths, as the troops we fight are bio-engineered humans and that the real Combine race are giant slugs and they aren't really fit for combat, so no troops just synths

 

[Asknoone]

Haha, nice Mesz. But I don't think the Combine opened the portals from their own homeworld - rather planets they'd conquered and industrialized to create their war machines.

 

[d00d]

Haha, nice Mesz. But I don't think the Combine opened the portals from their own homeworld - rather planets they'd conquered and industrialized to create their war machines.

The Combine, the entrepreneurs of the universe and dimensions.
Want to see my tag? *slug is carrying a briefcase with GMans photo with a heart on it*

But back to topic, I could imagine in my head striders and gunships outmaneuvering all types of tanks, choppers and aircraft fighters and all forces getting pwnt, but I still go with the idea that it lasted more than 7 hours.

 

[Costin]

Again and again this subject:
Do you think that the Combine Soldiers that conquered our world were the soldiers that we saw in HL2?They were the Earth's Overwatch.I still belive that the war lasted 7 hours,if the Combine wanted to conquer our world they sended the best of they soldiers(some sort of Super Combine Soldier) .In HL2 as I said in some other thread we are in post-war almost two decades after the war.So the the tehnology the Combine threw at us was far more better that we saw in the game.
A pack of striders could easily destroy a tank,two words :singularity canon.

 

[ríomhaire]

Don't compare apachies to gunships because that isn't how the 7 Hour War happened. Humanity where crowded into cities from the Xen animals ruling the outside world. Most of the military forces would have been defending the cities. Then suddenly the citadels appear right in the middle of the cities and charge outwards. The only places that would have had any chance to fight back would be military bases outside cities which
A: The Combine probably targeted too
B: Where undermanned due to defending the cities

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Pretty much, and that, as pointed out by Shift, the Citadel can make an unlimimted amount of synths (prima offcial guide) and builds them *extremly* quickly. Apart from the speed their built, they build hundreds at a time, the citadel is *massive*.

 

[TheGMan.]

Combine can conquer earth in 7 hours, but cannot manage to stop Gordon Freeman.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Lol true.

 

[Shift]

Yep thats the strange thing, and whats really good is that Breen is even baffled by this concept. In Nova Prospect in one of the control rooms he is obviously sending out a broadcast to all troops saying how in hell can they not stop one man who has literally cut through all Combine defences, and the fact that this man is not some highly trained commando, its a theorectical physist. But really like said in a previous post. The attacking force we basically a bunch of synths, Gordon is mainly fighting a bunch of beefed up humans fighting with the sort of tactics you see today, and Freeman already has great experiance against these sort of people, even better soldiers than that of the Overwatch, with all his encounters with the Spec Ops troops in Black Mesa. Plus he only ever encounters no more than three Striders at a time, and one Combine Gunship at a time so I think he is one brave but very lucky guy, having survived all the crap that he has been through.

 

[Costin]

Shift,one word HEV.
Gordon is a ****ing walking tank,the perfect war machine:sniper: .
And some of the the breencast should be like this:
"Gordon isn't human,it doesn't fell pain ,it can be reason with!!!!!!!!!!!!! To all Overwatch Soldiers in Nova Prospekt-you're dead."

 

[Shift]

Yeah true, the HEV suite when fully charged up is extremely powerful. In fact, according to Prima Guide, well from somewhere anyway, when the HEV suite is fully charged up it could take a rocket squarely on. But when its get to the firepower of Striders, well thats a different matter.

 

[d00d]

Shift,one word HEV.
Gordon is a ****ing walking tank,the perfect war machine:sniper: .
And some of the the breencast should be like this:
"Gordon isn't human,it doesn't fell pain ,it can be reason with!!!!!!!!!!!!! To all Overwatch Soldiers in Nova Prospekt-you're dead."

Gordon is a walking battle tank to put it bluntly . When he is caught by a barnacle he does not die, compared to other beings that just go limp when caught. And he can't leave his HEV suit since it administers morphine, Gordon is a junky!

 

[Costin]

Details,details...who needs them?well a barnacle could kill him,but if you're killed by a barnacle...try play on easy.

 

[Jester2000]

Does it seem right that all the armies of the world surrendered to the combine in 7 hours? Don't you think with all the technology and large forces the big nations of this world have, that we could last longer than 7 hours? The combine are a powerful enemy indeed and they would definitely overrun this planet, but I think they would have more trouble than a 7 hour sweep. If a bunch of thrown together rebels with no combat experience can cause such a blow to the combine as in city 17, how come the American Army or great armies like that did not give the combine much trouble? It seems power is unevenly scaled but please explain to me the answer to this question if you have it.

The thing about is that the 7 hour war didn't actually start untill the sattelite the gordon launched in the first game triangulated with the thousands of other military satelites to project a MASSIVE xen relay, which we now know to be the portal storms, from which came most of the Xenian creatures, then the combines on a scale greater than any nation could muster, additionaly, the citadels did not materialize on the spot, rather, they materialized and dropped into posistion, which is why there is such a massive crater where a citadel stands. Also, the combine had the capability of transporting vast numbers of their army around the world in a matter of seconds, possibly seizing control of major population centers and political districts. Also, remember that the combine also fired canister artillery into smaller towns to passify if not whipe out the populations. In the lowest term possible, it was "total base rape" on a global scale, I do see that the combine could pasify an entire planet in under 7 hours.

 

[ríomhaire]

"I have been asked to say a few words to the transhuman arm of Sector 17 Overwatch. I regret having to inform you that Doctor Gordon Freeman is on the premisis. Doctor Freeman is not human, he is a walking tank, you are all about to die, that is all"

 

[Asknoone]

I love that broadcast. He can't quite get his head round it.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

If the resistence goes to large, wont the combine just as easily 'uber-rape' them again with their 'instant transmission' army? Of course since the resistence has science members (Eli, Kleiner) that know about things like 'the project', they could as easily stop them from coming...or something, hmmm...

 

[Asknoone]

They have to get the Citadel portals on Earth working first.

 

[Apocalypse89]

I'd be kind of disappointed if the Combine's "big guns" are shown in a future Episode, but it turns out that they are only slightly more powerful than Striders or gunships. I want to fight something that truly looks like it could defeat Earth's militaries in 7 hours. Hell, I'd prefer it that you never defeat one of them, maybe only slightly damage/injure it or slow it down.