Do videogames make kids devoid of any intellectual thought?

[Saturos]

My sister seems to think so. She has decreed that her twin step-daughters and her 2 bio-daughters will never get a video game console under the tree from Santa as it makes them, "devoid of creative thought, imagination, or any willingness to do anything else not related to videogames." She has also said that it causes ADHD and other inattentiveness disorders. This was after one of them asked her if they could have a game console for Christmas next year. Is this prejudice against videogames or what? She said that she wouldn't even get them one if they are pro-athletic and straight A students. It's like she's pushing them to be musically talented so she can exploit them like the Jackson 5 troupe or some shit.

I guess I don't have much room to talk though. I'd be successful by now and own a 28 room palatial mansion and have billions of dollars invested in stock as my career as an actor or musician reaches it's prime. Ok shit I'll admit it, videogames ruined my life. THERE!

 

[Darkside55]

My sister seems to think so.

WELL YOUR SISTER IS AN IDIO--

She has decreed that her twin step-daughters and her 2 bio-daughters will never get a video game

Your sister is a wonderful woman who has prevented creating four new gamer girls and while I do not value her opinion, she has done us all a great service.

 

[Saturos]

Is it because your a pedo or because you genuinely think that they'll end up letting themselves go in the future mentally, physically, and socially because all they'll think about is games?

 

[Mirage]

Videogames aren't the inherent problem. At the very least, I would say there are more important factors to nurturing a child's intellect than ensuring the absence of videogames.

 

[Darkside55]

Is it because your a pedo or because you genuinely think that they'll end up letting themselves go in the future mentally, physically, and socially because all they'll think about is games?

Neither. It's because girl gamers are a fucking blight upon the community. Beyond any other definable group that plays video games, beyond llamas, griefers, cheaters, 12-year-olds on XBL, fanboys, fratboys, achievement kids, casuals, tourneyfags, what-have-you, by far...by far the worst are girl gamers.

Fuck I was in a conversation not four hours ago with a girl gamer who outright admitted she knew that GRRL GAMERS were responsible for the backlash against them in the gaming community and yet despite that she also admitted that she enjoys boasting that she's a girl what plays video games to validate herself in a male-oriented subculture.

So while the argument your sister gives is retarded to the degree that only a concerned parent can reach (read: morans), frankly I'm thankful that she's denying her daughters video games and sparing us all.

 

[Au-heppa]

Videogames might not have made me stupid, but the Internet sure has.

 

[Saturos]

Neither. It's because girl gamers are a fucking blight upon the community. Beyond any other definable group that plays video games, beyond llamas, griefers, cheaters, 12-year-olds on XBL, fanboys, fratboys, achievement kids, casuals, tourneyfags, what-have-you, by far...by far the worst are girl gamers.

Fuck I was in a conversation not four hours ago with a girl gamer who outright admitted she knew that GRRL GAMERS were responsible for the backlash against them in the gaming community and yet despite that she also admitted that she enjoys boasting that she's a girl what plays video games to validate herself in a male-oriented subculture.

So while the argument your sister gives is retarded to the degree that only a concerned parent can reach (read: morans), frankly I'm thankful that she's denying her daughters video games and sparing us all.

So basically your glad she denied them because female gamers are mostly annoying and hypocritical anyways, but regardless you think her motives for denying them are stupid. Correct?

Videogames might not have made me stupid, but the Internet sure has.

D'oh!

Anyways, not just stupid, but unmotivated and lazy too. I told her that particular point is partially moot with the Wii and she still didn't care, so I guess that means it's more important for her kids to be talented and intelligent than physically fit. Still ridiculous though. I guess she just doesn't want to be bothered with one more thing to monitor her kids with, and yes I'll admit kids should be monitored so they don't become vegetables.

 

[Acepilotf14]

Anyways, not just stupid, but unmotivated and lazy too.

Liberal, atheist, and apathetic as well.

 

[15357]

Certain videogames do make me think deeper. Others don't.


It's like this:

OH JESUS CHRIST WHAT IS THAT SHIT SHOOT KILL MOUSE CLICK NAPALM MACHINE GUN KILL KILL KILL

or

This game has a very interesting story - like a movie. I now wonder what went on in this elaborately crafted world that this game is situated in. I wonder what that female chractor's role in the whole storyline is? I wonder why she has such an attitude?

or

Ok, I have 120 minerals, should build an SCV, approximately 20 seconds build another barracks - minimal marine count should be no less than 20. Weak spot of main base are to the 6, should build couple of turrets for AA defence... need to get around to building another multi... Judging by the location of the opponent, ground based attacks would take about 40seconds to get here - get some spiders for early warning... hmm the opponent hasn't attacked me yet - maybe he's going air or building up troops - need to check, get a marine on a suicide mission. Interesting - no activity on empty resource centers, could be conserving minerals...HOLY SHIT HOW'D HE BUILD ULTRALISKS THAT FAST OH **** GG.

or

Ok, I need my population levels up, so I can invade Japan. Let's start by researching biotech. While they're at it, I should make my Infantry Tier 3 or more.


So, Ok, besides wasting time, I doubt videogames have harmed my intellect. Rather, by connecting me to this site, I think it has at the very least improved my English.

 

[Saturos]

Liberal, atheist, and apathetic as well.

D'oh!

Oh well.

Certain videogames do make me think deeper. Others don't.


It's like this:

OH JESUS CHRIST WHAT IS THAT SHIT SHOOT KILL MOUSE CLICK NAPALM MACHINE GUN KILL KILL KILL

or

This game has a very interesting story - like a movie. I now wonder what went on in this elaborately crafted world that this game is situated in. I wonder what that female chractor's role in the whole storyline is? I wonder why she has such an attitude?

or

Ok, I have 120 minerals, should build an SCV, approximately 20 seconds build another barracks - minimal marine count should be no less than 20. Weak spot of main base are to the 6, should build couple of turrets for AA defence... need to get around to building another multi... Judging by the location of the opponent, ground based attacks would take about 40seconds to get here - get some spiders for early warning... hmm the opponent hasn't attacked me yet - maybe he's going air or building up troops - need to check, get a marine on a suicide mission. Interesting - no activity on empty resource centers, could be conserving minerals...HOLY SHIT HOW'D HE BUILD ULTRALISKS THAT FAST OH **** GG.

or

Ok, I need my population levels up, so I can invade Japan. Let's start by researching biotech. While they're at it, I should make my Infantry Tier 3 or more.


So, Ok, besides wasting time, I doubt videogames have harmed my intellect. Rather, by connecting me to this site, I think it has at the very least improved my English.

There are some good things about games other than allowing foreigners to connect and learn new languages. Like uh...... well like uh...... f**k help me out here!

 

[15357]

D'oh!

Oh well.

There are some good things about games other than allowing foreigners to connect and learn new languages. Like uh...... well like uh...... f**k help me out here!

Well, I sure as hell can't think of any.

I love games. But I just can't rationalize. They're purely entertainment - like TV and sub-standard fiction books.

 

[Naph]

Games boost rational thought and hand eye. I haven't seen any tasteful games that would devoid any intelligent use of the brain.

 

[Darkside55]

So basically your glad she denied them because female gamers are mostly annoying and hypocritical anyways, but regardless you think her motives for denying them are stupid. Correct?

Correct.

Regarding the actual argument, what sticks out more than the ideas that video games will render you a thoughtless, unimaginative lump is that she seems to believe that people who play video games are absolutely consumed by video games. You know, I have never met one single person who is completely defined by video games, or has no hobbies or interests outside of video games. It's almost as if you could believe that there's someone out there that so wholly devotes their time to one medium that they completely shut out everything else; very few people in the world are like that. So right away, positing that exposure to video games makes one "unwilling to do anything else not related to videogames" is already off the deep end.

Video games, despite what some people would have you believe, are not soul-sucking electric vampires that completely rob you of your will to do anything but sit in front of a screen all day.

Spoiler

The internet, however, will.

The other worries are just as laughable. ADHD, from video games? Please. If that's true then I would like to know why clinical researchers in Florida use video games to help improve the cognition of ADHD patients. Inattentiveness? I suppose she missed the studies where senior citizens were given Genesis systems and were shown to have vastly improved awareness of their situations in real life after playing video games.

As far as imagination and creativity go, there are sandbox games for creativity, and the entire purpose of video games are to create imaginative escapes. You might not be imagining the worlds yourself, but you're an interactive participant in often complex and involving scenarios.

And this is all presuming that, again, all a person will do with their life once exposed to video games is play video games. Video games will not, in the foreseeable future, be a complete substitute to imagination; I don't believe they ever will be. If ever games even get holodeck real the most we'll be doing is playing out what our imaginations create. Likewise, a person's creativity isn't going to be stifled by video games.

Ultimately these arguments are paper-thin and are easily exposed as ridiculous, baseless, and it's all just knee-jerk worrying about stupid shit.







But at least them girls ain't gettin' vidya gaems.

 

[Saturos]

Correct.

Regarding the actual argument, what sticks out more than the ideas that video games will render you a thoughtless, unimaginative lump is that she seems to believe that people who play video games are absolutely consumed by video games. You know, I have never met one single person who is completely defined by video games, or has no hobbies or interests outside of video games. It's almost as if you could believe that there's someone out there that so wholly devotes their time to one medium that they completely shut out everything else; very few people in the world are like that. So right away, positing that exposure to video games makes one "unwilling to do anything else not related to videogames" is already off the deep end.

Video games, despite what some people would have you believe, are not soul-sucking electric vampires that completely rob you of your will to do anything but sit in front of a screen all day.

Spoiler

The internet, however, will.

The other worries are just as laughable. ADHD, from video games? Please. If that's true then I would like to know why clinical researchers in Florida use video games to help improve the cognition of ADHD patients. Inattentiveness? I suppose she missed the studies where senior citizens were given Genesis systems and were shown to have vastly improved awareness of their situations in real life after playing video games.

As far as imagination and creativity go, there are sandbox games for creativity, and the entire purpose of video games are to create imaginative escapes. You might not be imagining the worlds yourself, but you're an interactive participant in often complex and involving scenarios.

And this is all presuming that, again, all a person will do with their life once exposed to video games is play video games. Video games will not, in the foreseeable future, be a complete substitute to imagination; I don't believe they ever will be. If ever games even get holodeck real the most we'll be doing is playing out what our imaginations create. Likewise, a person's creativity isn't going to be stifled by video games.

Ultimately these arguments are paper-thin and are easily exposed as ridiculous, baseless, and it's all just knee-jerk worrying about stupid shit.







But at least them girls ain't gettin' vidya gaems.

But what about laziness? C'mon every gamer has been guilty of that one time or another when some awesome new sequel came out right?
I'm sure some of you have slacked off in schoolwork before.

Also:

The other worries are just as laughable. ADHD, from video games? Please. If that's true then I would like to know why clinical researchers in Florida use video games to help improve the cognition of ADHD patients.

She claims that kids who sit around all day have, "pent up" energy and are used to the loud noises, fast images, fast paced-music etc. of video games so when they have to sit still and do something quietly, these ADHD symptoms supposedly brought on by gaming distracts them.

Obviously, there does have to be some limits on when and where kids can play games, but is it really much different than a kid addicted to playing with some other medium or activity to the point of neglecting schoolwork?

Like I said though, I think it's just a cop-out really so she has one less thing to monitor her kids with. WHO'S LAZY NOW BITCH?!?! HA HA HA!

 

[Darkside55]

But what about laziness? C'mon every gamer has been guilty of that one time or another when some awesome new sequel came out right?
I'm sure some of you have slacked off in schoolwork before.

This is implying that laziness is a condition brought on by, or exacerbated by, video games. It's not only a generalization but also foolish; I suppose people weren't lazy or slacked off on schoolwork before video games? Really, if someone is going to be a slacker they're going to be a slacker. Video games don't inspire laziness any more than the next hobby.

She claims that kids who sit around all day have, "pent up" energy and are used to the loud noises, fast images, fast paced-music etc. of video games so when they have to sit still and do something quietly, these ADHD symptoms supposedly brought on by gaming distracts them.

That's fucking retarded. That's seriously "I drink out of a sippy cup" retarded. God. It's like this woman has never been around anybody who plays video games. Dragonshirt you play video games; what the hell kind of image are you putting on for your sister?

Obviously, there does have to be some limits on when and where kids can play games, but is it really much different than a kid addicted to playing with some other medium or activity to the point of neglecting schoolwork?

No, it isn't. Obviously if a person doesn't enjoy what they're doing (in this case, schoolwork) they're going to procrastinate with something that they do enjoy doing. This can be anything from going out, watching tv, listening to music, reading a book, or even, yes, video games. The blame doesn't lie with these things, however, so to demonize video games as a case for laziness is just really pathetic.

You should show your sister this thread.

 

[Saturos]

This is implying that laziness is a condition brought on by, or exacerbated by, video games. It's not only a generalization but also foolish; I suppose people weren't lazy or slacked off on schoolwork before video games? Really, if someone is going to be a slacker they're going to be a slacker. Video games don't inspire laziness any more than the next hobby.


That's fucking retarded. That's seriously "I drink out of a sippy cup" retarded. God. It's like this woman has never been around anybody who plays video games. Dragonshirt you play video games; what the hell kind of image are you putting on for your sister?


No, it isn't. Obviously if a person doesn't enjoy what they're doing (in this case, schoolwork) they're going to procrastinate with something that they do enjoy doing. This can be anything from going out, watching tv, listening to music, reading a book, or even, yes, video games. The blame doesn't lie with these things, however, so to demonize video games as a case for laziness is just really pathetic.

You should show your sister this thread.

LMAO. Holy Shit.

Well, there's nothing much I can do even if I do show her this thread. They are her kids after all, and when it comes to her kids, not even your insight is razor sharp Darkseid.

 

[VirusType2]

never get a video game console under the tree from Santa as it makes them, "devoid of creative thought, imagination, or any willingness to do anything else not related to videogames." She has also said that it causes ADHD and other inattentiveness disorders.

Owning a console makes you retarded, yes. But I think it's confined to the current generation of consoles. A 16 Bit system should be fine.

 

[Mirage]

"Owning" a console has nothing to do with a person's intellectual capacity.

 

[VirusType2]

Well, I think that everyone who owns a PS3 is retarded, at least.

Except for Krynn, he... - he doesn't know any better, he's just a dog.

 

[Darkside55]

Well, I think that everyone who owns a PS3 is retarded

But video games are what make you retarded, and the PS3

Spoiler

has no games

 

[Mirage]

Perhaps a little mis-guided, or ridiculously obsessed with one of the PS3's exclusive games.

I had a PS3 for a very short period of time, realized it wasn't worth it, and returned it for a full refund. Uncharted 2 was pretty great, but I didn't feel like waiting for GOW III or whatever and attempting to justify the purchase.

 

[VirusType2]

I'm not saying it's the cause, but merely the proof of retardation.

 

[Saturos]

Dragonshirt you play video games; what the hell kind of image are you putting on for your sister?.

Well, tbh I haven't had much of a social life since I returned home from trade school and I'm only just started working a shitty minimum wage job atm too until I can afford to return to college and finish what I started. Plus I'm paying every f**ing red cent I make to live with my parents for the time being and it pretty much stymed any hope of me starting an online e-business.

Honestly, I'm a bad representation for honest, hard working gamers out there right now but you know what? She's living with her mom right now too so she doesn't have much success herself to compare me with. Besides, it could've happened to anyone or even before the days of gaming just like you pretty much said right?

EDIT> I was lol'ing so hard I overlooked this.

 

[VirusType2]

You should teach your sister's children to shoot cats.

 

[Mirage]

I never said you implied consoles "caused" retardation. I was just saying they aren't proof of it. There might be a certain majority of console owners that can lay claim to a mental deficiency, but perceiving someone as an individual rather than a part of the group, until it can be proven otherwise, is the rational thing to do, IMO at least.

 

[VirusType2]

I never said you implied consoles "caused" retardation. I was just saying they aren't proof of it. There might be a certain majority of console owners that can lay claim to a mental deficiency, but perceiving someone as an individual rather than a part of the group, until it can be proven otherwise, is the rational thing to do, IMO at least.

Actually I had written that before even reading what you said. I realized I wasn't clear.

And, Mirage - you edited your post in the other thread - but I read what you wrote; you claimed everyone was retarded at least to some degree.

 

[Mirage]

Actually I had written that before even reading what you said. I realized I wasn't clear.

And, Mirage - you edited your post in the other thread - but I read what you wrote; you claimed everyone was retarded at least to some degree.

Oh--sorry for the mix up. Yes, I did type that (and I included myself as well), it wasn't meant to be offensive, I just meant that everyone has mental setbacks, whether it be socially, academically, etc, and it is hard for one person to find a solution for every problem. And, even if someone was the epitome of mental capacity, the universe is a very complex thing and mis-perceptions come from all walks of life.

 

[VirusType2]

Oh--sorry for the mix up. Yes, I did type that (and I included myself as well), it wasn't meant to be offensive, I just meant that everyone has mental setbacks, whether it be socially, academically, etc, and it is hard for one person to find a solution for every problem. And, even if someone was the epitome of mental capacity, the universe is a very complex thing and mis-perceptions come from all walks of life.

Let me ask you something. Is everything you say going to be dead serious and politically correct from now on?

That's too bad. I liked you better when your life was tragic and you wanted to disappear.


But anyway, I have long believed that everybody is at least a bit mental, whether they know it or not. So we are in agreement.

 

[Mirage]

Haha, I take that to mean you want me to disappear? Anyway, as far as me being dead serious...well, I don't think my sense of humor would mesh well here, so more than likely I'll be %99.9 serious. And at least we reached a tenuous agreement, you can somewhat see where I am coming from.

 

[Darkside55]

I don't think my sense of humor would mesh well here

Now you've gone and got me all curious.

 

[Viperidae]

Korealovestarcraft

It's interesting how what is essentially nationalistic video game xenophobia has led to the assumption that RTS's make you smart.

Spoiler

They don't.

But it was fun to read anyway.

 

[VirusType2]

Haha, I take that to mean you want me to disappear? Anyway, as far as me being dead serious...well, I don't think my sense of humor would mesh well here, so more than likely I'll be %99.9 serious. And at least we reached a tenuous agreement, you can somewhat see where I am coming from.

I guess I'm pushing your buttons, sorry. I'm just provoking further conversation. I haven't seen you here before.

No, I don't want you to disappear, that was the first post I read from you and I thought it was hilarious. Because your name is Mirage, and you were talking about disappearing, I thought that was you being clever. Plus it was a little pathetic, and we all feel like that from time to time, I think.

Anyway, I would have never guessed you were strictly business. It wouldn't hurt to lighten up, but you know, whatever.

Honestly, I haven't been serious at all so far. I was surprised how seriously you were taking everything I said, so I played along with it.

 

[15357]

It's interesting how what is essentially nationalistic video game xenophobia has led to the assumption that RTS's make you smart.

Spoiler

They don't.

But it was fun to read anyway.

I never did think RTSs made you smart. Rather, it might make you more efficient. But not smart. It's all about repetition, you do it again and again until you have the build order hard-wired into your brain. Anything else is just purely superficial. You'd need to make adjustments from time to time, make some concessions and so on, but the basic skeleton of your strategy doesn't change. You need to have it all planned out, even if you know it won't go that way.

 

[VirusType2]

Lego and Risk made me a genius.

 

[Viperidae]

Rather, it might make you more efficient.

At RTS games.

Isn't Brain Age supposed to make you smart? Saturos should buy DS's, a few copies of it, stick the cartridges in, then load a Mario Kart romon them for the girls to play. Sis would never know the difference.

 

[Shift]

All I ever did was play computer games when growing and I still had a huge amount of friends in school, never went out but still, and I did fine in school also. What did it lead to? I still love computer games but can't play any for a few hours without having to do something else, I started playing the guitar, formed a band and play gigs every week, I write new songs everyday, new riffs everyday, new lyrics everyday. All something that requires a lot of imagination.

I also love going out, watching good tv/films, exercising and running a lot and reading so quite frankly, she's talking out of her arse.

 

[<RJMC>]

just give them a wii whit wii sports and done

 

[StarBob]

The world of gaming, like every facet of human nature, possesses a wide variety of subcultures and extremes. There are those who may play video games to the point that their entire lifestyle dwindles to essential chainsmoking of videogames until there is some sort of intervention, but the majority of gamers will pick up the hobby, continue it, and live fruitful lives possibly with no negligible outcomes to their videogaming.

The problem that we all face in this world, is that we tend to take the seldom-occuring outliers and bring them to the forefront as though it is a common occurence. For instance, 11 million people play World of Warcraft. Of that 11 million, a handful have taken the game to such an extreme that it has cost them their jobs, family, friends, or in some cases their lives. Now, granted, that's a terrible thing, but considering the ratio of the 11 million people (roughly the population of the state of Ohio) it is barely worth considering that the game itself had any bearing on it. More likely, those with addicitive personalities found something that they could become addicted to.

To think that video games stifle creativity is the same situation. I grew up playing video games as a hobby along with the rest of the things I did. I wouldn't call myself the outright most creative individual around, but I in no way believe gaming has had any sort of negative effect on that.

 

[Laivasse]

One thing that hampers the wider acceptance of video games is the response from gamers themselves to the type of attitude described in the OP. Most people (not referring to this thread specifically) seem to resign themselves to the fact that games are essentially devoid of intellectual merit, and that the only argument to be made in their favour is 'yeah but they're fun'.

I don't know whether that's down to a sense of intellectual inadequacy due to the generational gap which typifies this argument, or whether it's because the people called on to defend gaming in most instances are genuinely stupid and know it, but, as Darkside says, the opposition arguments are paper thin and tend to evaporate under scrutiny like morning frost under a warm fart. Video games don't 'rot your brain' any more than songs or books do. They're a medium of expression for their creators and as such can be complex and stimulating or simple and undemanding, just like any other medium.

Not to be offensive about your (dumbass) sister, Saturos, but if she possessed any real insight then what she would do, instead of restricting games altogether, would be to get some personal experience of them so as to be able to discriminate between the worthwhile and the worthless. It's not like they're getting any less popular or prevalent, so how does she propose to keep her kids sheltered from them for any length of time, short of relocating to an Amish community?

 

[Captain M4d]

As far as ADHD goes, I hope she realizes that we live in an attention-deficit world, with much thanks to television. The Internet, as of late, hasn't done much help. Consider the fact that Youtube experts will tell you that the best videos are super-short and to the point.

If anything, many video games have allowed us to be more attentive. Unless you're playing a puzzle game by PopCap or something of the like, you are most likely playing a game that is longterm goal-oriented, demanding your attention for long bouts of time.

There are many other benefits to playing video games, beyond improved hand-eye coordination and better reflexes. The act of tracking hierarchal objectives over a long time span can be a great transferable skill into real life. Steven Johnson calls this activity telescoping, because games like Zelda: Wind Waker make you telescope your objectives into a hierarchal manner in order to know which ones you need to accomplish first.

Here's an example of telescoping from Johnson's book, Everything Bad Is Good For you:

There's much more wisdom to be found in the book mentioned above, such as probing the game's world and forming hypotheses about how it behaves.

You can preview some of the pages here: http://books.google.com/books?id=9_...a steven johnson&pg=PA57#v=onepage&q=&f=false

I definitely recommend buying her that book and see if it changes her mind at all.