Do you think 9/11 was an inside job? A count

9/11 INSIDE JOB OR NO?

  • Yes, definitely.

    Votes: 7 7.3%
  • No, definitely.

    Votes: 61 63.5%
  • I'm not sure.

    Votes: 18 18.8%
  • Dinosaurs

    Votes: 10 10.4%

  • Total voters
    96
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lame-o

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I know a lot of you guys have talked about this before and stated your opinions on this matter, but I'd just like to get a general idea of how many people disagree with the official story.

Everybody knows the official story well enough, so I'll list some basic problems with it:

- The Bush administration had a lot to gain from it.
Without 9/11 the U.S. wouldn't have invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. The war has been highly profitable for oil companies and military corporations.


- It was impossible for cell phones to have reception at cruising altitude in 2001.

However there is this quote: "Wireless communications networks weren't designed for ground-to-air communication. Cellular experts privately admit that they're surprised the calls were able to be placed from the hijacked planes, and that they lasted as long as they did. They speculate that the only reason that the calls went through in the first place is that the aircraft were flying so close to the ground..."

- The airplanes weren't intercepted by the FAA or NORAD.
Here's what Popular Mechanics had to say on this matter:

"In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999. With passengers and crew unconscious from cabin decompression, the plane lost radio contact but remained in transponder contact until it crashed. Even so, it took an F-16 1 hour and 22 minutes to reach the stricken jet. Rules in effect back then, and on 9/11, prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts. Prior to 9/11, all other NORAD interceptions were limited to offshore Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ). "Until 9/11 there was no domestic ADIZ," FAA spokesman Bill Schumann tells PM. After 9/11, NORAD and the FAA increased cooperation, setting up hotlines between ATCs and NORAD command centers, according to officials from both agencies. NORAD has also increased its fighter coverage and has installed radar to monitor airspace over the continent."

http://www.911myths.com/html/67_intercepts.html

Not everyone buys this story however, and common sense suggests that there should be some kind of defense or emergency system put in place for commercial airliners. There is alleged evidence of an active airway defense system. Besides what about Washington D.C.? Did they really leave airways completely defenseless over the White House?

- A jet plane shouldn't have been able to level the Twin Towers.
The people who designed the WTC claim this.

- The Twin Towers both dropped at near free-fall speed, in a pancake fashion.
Historically, this has only happened during demolitions. Furthermore, the theory that they collapsed due to the intense heat of the jet fuel melting the steel is supposedly impossible. Here's a quote: "...people (including engineers) often confuse temperature and heat. While they are related, they are not the same. Thermodynamically, the heat contained in a material is related to the temperature through the heat capacity and the density (or mass). Temperature is defined as an intensive property, meaning that it does not vary with the quantity of material, while the heat is an extensive property, which does vary with the amount of material. One way to distinguish the two is to note that if a second log is added to the fireplace, the temperature does not double; it stays roughly the same, but the size of the fire or the length of time the fire burns, or a combination of the two, doubles. Thus, the fact that there were 90,000 L of jet fuel on a few floors of the WTC does not mean that this was an unusually hot fire. The temperature of the fire at the WTC was not unusual, and it was most definitely not capable of melting steel."

The official experts however, completely disagree.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/09/0917_disasterbuildings.html

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/eagar-0112.html

- There was evidence of thermite pyrotechnics being used (which is the kind of substance used to cut steel during demolitions).
There's a famous picture of a steel column amidst the WTC rubble that was cut diagonally in such a fashion that the steel melted along the edges of the cut.

- Many survivors have said that they witnessed explosions in the lower levels of the Twin Towers, suggesting demolition explosives.
Others say that the downward implosion of the buildings just pushed smoke and plume downwards, and the explosions were simply the sounds of the structural failure.

- The attack on the WTC was completely successful. The attack on the pentagon was only partially successful (managed to hit, but didn't do any kind of damage that would disrupt the pentagon's efficiency). Finally, the attack on the White House didn't come close to being successful (no official explanation why).
The result of the attacks coincidentally didn't hurt the government very much at all. This has been officially attributed to the intervention of passengers on the other planes, and luck in regard to the pentagon.


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There are way more in-depth and researched accusations at http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4582.htm for those who want to take a look.
 
For an inside job you think they would have come up with something less mind numbingly elaborate and ball shrinkingly risky to get what they wanted.

It would have been slightly easier to plan and execute a mission to mars.
 
Well I wouldn't really say it would be all that complicated. The general gist of it would be to blow up a couple of buildings, shift blame onto a scape goat, then do what you want with anyone connected to that scape goat. It's really about as complex as any strategic act on paper.

High level politicians are a different type of people than you and I, and I don't think this is out of any government's scope.
 
Oh good, another one of these threads. Because all the previous ones have gone so well.
 
Considering that Osama Bin Laden used to work for the CIA, you'd think that if the US wanted to orchestrate a terrorist attack it would just pay off some terrorists rather than conduct an elaborate scheme whereby planes are crashed into a building AND the building is bombed (again, why not just bomb the building and say terrorists did that?).
 
The only thing I don't understand is how WTC 7 fell the way it did. I would have been scared shitless had I worked in that building and seen it in freefall after fires and debris (but no plane). The twin towers -- not so much. No conspiracy. You should add the insurance policy to the list if you wanna go full tinfoil hat though.
 
Well I wouldn't really say it would be all that complicated. The general gist of it would be to blow up a couple of buildings, shift blame onto a scape goat, then do what you want with anyone connected to that scape goat.
In that case i think it's plausible that the film Time Cop was a documentary. The General gist of it is you make a couple of time machines, send some cops back in time and arrest anyone messing with the time line.

Very complicated things often seem simple when you over simplify them to hell and back.
 
Considering that Osama Bin Laden used to work for the CIA, you'd think that if the US wanted to orchestrate a terrorist attack it would just pay off some terrorists rather than conduct an elaborate scheme whereby planes are crashed into a building AND the building is bombed (again, why not just bomb the building and say terrorists did that?).

The whole blame of the buildings going down is on the airplanes. No-one would believe that terrorists physically walked into the buildings for weeks beforehand and somehow hid enough explosives in just the right places to bring the towers down with surgical precision. They could have blown up a bomb in there and killed a hundred or so people without much structural damage, but that wouldn't tug at people's emotions enough to justify a war.
 
Time Cop? Documentary? Jesus christ man, just shut up... Look this really isn't my argument for the conspiracy theories, I just want to hear everyone's opinions and so I'm not going to comment on anyone's idea of what happened from now on.

Therefore, I expect you guys to not treat the opinions of thousands of other people like shit (or ****ing Time Cop, olol nice one) regardless of which side you're on.

Just state what you think.
 
Time Cop? Documentary? Jesus christ man, just shut up... Look this really isn't my argument for the conspiracy theories, I just want to hear everyone's opinions and so I'm not going to comment on anyone's idea of what happened from now on.

Therefore, I expect you guys to not treat the opinions of thousands of other people like shit (or ****ing Time Cop, olol nice one) regardless of which side you're on.

Just state what you think.
If we are going to start respecting opinions regardless of how retarded they are i demand you apologize for implying that the film Time Cop was a work of fiction.
 
If they really wanted an excuse, they'd just have published the reports they had that suggested that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. These reports were real by the way. They were wrong, but not fake (even intelligence agencies make mistakes), as many conspiracy theorists suggest.
 
My god amazing!

Protip: the forum doesn't support HTML code outside of the news section.
 
All the September 11th conspiracies sound like a Metal Gear Solid plot.
 
Therefore, I expect you guys to not treat the opinions of thousands of other people like shit (or ****ing Time Cop, olol nice one) regardless of which side you're on.

Just state what you think.

I'm not gonna respect someone that believes the earth is flat. Why would I respect someone that has just as insane of a theory about how the world trade centers came down?

You are asking for opinions on these bullshit points. If you bothered to critically think about those bullshit points, or spend some time researching them, this discussion wouldn't be taking place.
 
If they really wanted an excuse, they'd just have published the reports they had that suggested that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. These reports were real by the way. They were wrong, but not fake (even intelligence agencies make mistakes), as many conspiracy theorists suggest.

Actually a lot of the pre-war intelligence was down right fake.

One example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries
 
All the September 11th conspiracies sound like a Metal Gear Solid plot.
hiimdaisyshagohod.png


This thread is already off to a great start. From the poll it looks like most of the conspiracy theorists have changed their minds, or else there are just a lot of realists on this forum.
 
considering the illegal scheming behind the vietnam and iraq wars were leaked, then any 9/11 plot would also probably be leaked.

The Bush administration proved itself far too incompetant to pull off the most elaboratly complicated conspiracy in history without any evidence they did it.
 
If they really wanted an excuse, they'd just have published the reports they had that suggested that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. These reports were real by the way. They were wrong, but not fake (even intelligence agencies make mistakes), as many conspiracy theorists suggest.

it's not a mistake when you purposefully ignore intelligence that says your source is wrong

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant)


anyways, 9/11 conspiracies fall apart once you actually look at the evidence. there's a reason why they're still "conspiracies"
 
I wouldn't put it past a few nutty 'patriots' to be in favour of false flag attacks of some kind, I just don't think they'd be able to pull one off and get away with it.
 
All I know is that Pearl Harbor was investigated over 6 times and 911 was only investigated once and we went to war immediately after that like it was drawn up on a white board. We made too many fast moves for it to have been a legit strike. But still too many unknowns are out there and unless more information comes to light I'm still on the fence with this issue. And I believe many people still don't have a 100% certainty that 911 was an inside job
 
I just can't believe that the building would collapse like that. I would expect the building to fall up into the sky.

Very suspicious.
 
I honestly can't say for sure, and I consistently take a lot of flak for my opinions on the matter. The fact that the Saudis who conducted the attack had so much in common with the Bush family doesn't help my skepticism, either. There's a long and complicated history between some of the architects of the 9/11 attacks and some of the most affluent and powerful politicians and businesspeople in the U.S.--It'd hard to swear anything off altogether.

Also the fact that most surveillance tapes were confiscated, a huge chunk of the reports were blacked out that specifically dealt with Saudi involvement, and the fact that we had (most) all Saudi royals flown via private jet out of the country in a time when any and all commercial flying was outright banned in the days following the attacks should be enough to make anyone suspicious. The FBI was furious when they weren't able to question any of those people. There's some amazing reading on the subject that I suggest for anyone, regardless of your personal beliefs on the matter. It's worth knowing the history of U.S. ties to Saudi Arabia if you have even a passing interest in politics or economics, and the author doesn't try to force any crackrock conspiracies--it's straight facts. He's not a conspiracy theorist.
 
The building rolling on the ground that video keeps referring to is much smaller and appears to be solid concrete, but the point about the fires illustrates the problem I had with WTC 7. I know there probably won't be an answer I'll be satisfied with, but I'll stick with my statement that if that building fell due to the damage and fires caused by neighboring tower's fallout (provided that there wasn't more damage hidden from camera view), I sure as hell wouldn't feel safe in another building built by that architect.
 
I just can't believe that the building would collapse like that. I would expect the building to fall up into the sky.

Very suspicious.

I must be reading this wrong, but, how does a building fall up?
 
Even if it wasn't an "inside job" it's clear that it would not have happened without a history of reckless relationships with tyrants U.S. leaders have been making behind the back of a discerning public. Not to mention the negligence of the Bush administration before the attacks and the failure to investigate legitimate leads in the aftermath.

Regardless of any U.S. involvement, knowledgeable and responsible citizens are aware that it was enabled by careless diplomacy and dependency on unstable powers who would be willing to pay for and organize something like the 9/11 attacks. More than likely conducted with money and resources provided by the United States government as well.
 
But why would the government even bother to rig WTC 7 when they already did WTC 1 and 2? Don't you think they would've thought two building knocked down to be enough?
 
The building rolling on the ground that video keeps referring to is much smaller and appears to be solid concrete, but the point about the fires illustrates the problem I had with WTC 7. I know there probably won't be an answer I'll be satisfied with, but I'll stick with my statement that if that building fell due to the damage and fires caused by neighboring tower's fallout (provided that there wasn't more damage hidden from camera view), I sure as hell wouldn't feel safe in another building built by that architect.

It's interesting how no-one knows why WTC 7 fell and very little effort was made to find out.
 
If it had been planned, I doubt they would have done it in such an obvious collapse form.
 
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