Do you think 9/11 was an inside job? A count

[Vegeta897]

 

[Minister]

So then they say well thermite was used. This is what thermite does:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdCsbZf1_Ng

It would take 100 pounds of that stuff per steel column. So none of these crazy theories ever stand up to any kind of logical test. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Not to mention it follows its gravitational path, ie, it only works going downwards.

 

[Viperidae]

No, but I do think it was an inside jerb.

 

[lame-o]

Steel does not have to melt for it to lose its structural integrity. In fact, the strength of steel begins to deteriorate at approximately 350 °C. You also state the burning temperatures of separate materials without taking into consideration that when different fuels are mixed, different and often greater burning temperatures are obtained.

Study done by University of Manchester highlighting how a normal fire can reach over 1000°C:

°http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/pr...e/fireModelling/nominalFireCurves/default.htm

Ah yeah, that's true.

It still doesn't explain why it fell so fast and without crumbling at all, however.

 

[Minister]

It didn't really fall particularly fast. If you watch the videos you can see the debris falling faster than the the building itself, which is the simplest way to disprove it fell at free-fall speed.

What do you mean by crumbling?

 

[VirusType2]

After breaking and bending everything all to shit and burning up when it struck at like hundreds of miles per hour...


How much would a 747 with fuel and passengers weigh? The weight can't be discounted as a variable, either.

 

[Tagaziel]

Im not sure about the WTC hits.

But I am still absolutely, 100% convinced that it wasnt a plane that hit the Pentagon.

Theres too much coincidence around that crash site to suggest it wasnt a plane.

It was a plane.

I was of your persuasion too, until I was supplied with photographic evidence of jet plane debris on site.

And the lack of damage? Keep in mind that the Pentagon was built to withstand a direct nuclear attack.

 

[VirusType2]

OK, I will add fuel to the fire.

I'm not sure if this is common knowledge, but I have it on good authority (brother works there) that the part of the Pentagon that was struck was the only section not yet reinforced recently.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

I thought it was the opposite. That it was the first part to have been (then) recently reinforced.

 

[lame-o]

It was a plane.

I was of your persuasion too, until I was supplied with photographic evidence of jet plane debris on site.

And the lack of damage? Keep in mind that the Pentagon was built to withstand a direct nuclear attack.

All the pieces were small enough to be picked up by hand however, and the surveillance footage directed at the damaged section don't show anything hitting (it was low fps), just a fireball. Planes don't move that fast. Or disappear that fast.

 

[Vegeta897]

Planes move pretty fast.

 

[VirusType2]

I thought it was the opposite. That it was the first part to have been (then) recently reinforced.

I'll have to double check tomorrow at Thanksgiving. I may be remembering it wrong; it's been a long time. Actually, I'm sure this could be found on... the internet.

 

[RidleyRockets]

All the pieces were small enough to be picked up by hand however

Crashes don't always leave large debris. The energies involved at impact are simply enormous.

and the surveillance footage directed at the damaged section don't show anything hitting (it was low fps), just a fireball. Planes don't move that fast. Or disappear that fast.

The plane was moving at over 500mph.

What do you honestly expect with a camera that records at a low fps pointing at an object moving at 500mph?

Also i will ask you again to apologize for implying that the film Time Cop was anything but a accurate documentary of real events.

 

[Viperidae]

All the pieces were small enough to be picked up by hand however, and the surveillance footage directed at the damaged section don't show anything hitting (it was low fps), just a fireball. Planes don't move that fast. Or disappear that fast.

Hello person who watched that lame conspiracy flash video from years ago.

Good music in it, though.

Also: have you never watched high speed impacts on concrete? It ain't pretty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgjk24_5qe8
Roughly same speed 747 would be going, 747 would weigh more and thus be a larger force, concrete was also less thick, all resulting in: the damage to the building. How is any of what was reported at odds? Against planes that crash-land on the ground? Where the pilots tried to land them as safely as possible?

Why am I even posting here god the forums are slow today.

 

[Planetary]

This might be relevant: pretty creep stuff too!

http://911.wikileaks.org/

 

[Raziaar]

Roughly same speed 747 would be going, 747 would weigh more and thus be a larger force, concrete was also less thick, all resulting in: the damage to the building. How is any of what was reported at odds? Against planes that crash-land on the ground? Where the pilots tried to land them as safely as possible?

Why am I even posting here god the forums are slow today.

Yup. Complete disintegration. God, it's like people expect to be able to recover the same kind of debris as you might find if a plane was shot out of the sky or something... big chunks everywhere. No... that's not how it works.

 

[VirusType2]

But, but Raz.. in the movies the plane is almost fully intact in a tree or somewhere in the jungle. And you can just clean it up and fly away. I want to believe.

 

[Sir Phoenixx]

Roughly same speed 747 would be going, 747 would weigh more and thus be a larger force, concrete was also less thick, all resulting in: the damage to the building. How is any of what was reported at odds? Against planes that crash-land on the ground? Where the pilots tried to land them as safely as possible?

Why am I even posting here god the forums are slow today.

757, actually.

 

[Kadayi]

For me personally the main issue of contention with 9/11 is over what exactly it achieved for the Islamic Fundamentalists? If having the US invade a country they were in full political control of was the intention, then job done I guess. However it seems like a fairly stupid idea to needlessly provoke the US government for no good strategic reason. There didn't seem to be any benefit to it for them. Overall the act was universally condemned and the invasion of Afghanistan supported, it was only really with the concocted invasion of Iraq that world approval began to wane.

One realises that Al-Qaeda aren't exactly straight thinking, but at the same time I don't believe they operate outside of a sense of consequence, and to my mind the gains just aren't there, or haven't been explained satisfactorily.

 

[Shyam]

One realises that Al-Qaeda aren't exactly straight thinking, but at the same time I don't believe they operate outside of a sense of consequence, and to my mind the gains just aren't there, or haven't been explained satisfactorily.

Maybe it is as you said, they were not thinking straight. Maybe to Al Qaeda 9/11 was one spectacular attack to raise their organisation's profile in the world stage. Maybe the higher echelon of Al Qaeda may have hoped the Taleban would have put up more of a fight initially (this resistance came much later on) I think Al Qaeda as an organisation have weakened some what and attempted terrorist attacks or successful ones are increasingly taking on the capitalist model of individual initiative.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

I think Al Qaeda is really more of an idea now, a name that people can associate themselves with. Obviously the attacks on the USA required a lot of planning and resources though, and it was, I suppose, clever. But people can be clever and just appalling when it comes to strategic thinking.

 

[Mr Stabby]

If the plan was to get America stuck in an expensive and bloody quagmire, like vietnam that would turn public opinion against a US presence in the middle east, then it was a good one.

 

[[Dragoon]]

No, I don't think it was. I doubt the government could pull off such a complex hoax, involving so many people, and manage to keep it silent this long.

However, I do think they did everything they could to take advantage of the situation for their own gain, including using it as a pretense to start 2 wars.

 

[Gargantou]

Considering that Osama Bin Laden used to work for the CIA, you'd think that if the US wanted to orchestrate a terrorist attack it would just pay off some terrorists rather than conduct an elaborate scheme whereby planes are crashed into a building AND the building is bombed (again, why not just bomb the building and say terrorists did that?).

Just a lil FYI hun, Osama Bin Laden never worked for the CIA, yes, he was part of an organization that received aid from the CIA(the Mujahedeen), but they also received aid from several other Western nations covertly.

One could argue that CIA helped Osama establish himself on the international terrorist scene, but there is NO proof whatsoever that he was actually ever directly employed by them, nor him ever being given direct orders or finances by them.

Personally I'm somewhere in the middle, I do not think 9/11 was an inside job, but I do feel like Bush and company ignored a substantial amount of warning signs, and thus do have an indirect responsibility for the attack as the leaders of the nation.

 

[Apocalypse89]

If the plan was to get America stuck in an expensive and bloody quagmire, like vietnam that would turn public opinion against a US presence in the middle east, then it was a good one.

I believe this too, although I think the focus was more on the Middle-Eastern public than the American public. Bin Laden knew that after 9/11, the US would fly into a blind rage and declare war on any Muslim country that looked at it wrong. More importantly, he knew that American wars in the Middle East would inflame many Muslims against the USA and the west in general, and cause support and recruitment for Al Qaeda and other fundamentalist groups to skyrocket.

And if the seemingly neverending supply of insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan are anything to go by, that plan's been going pretty well so far.

 

[VirusType2]

A lot of people are going to have to die. And that will never change, as far as I can tell.

 

[Shyam]

One could argue that CIA helped Osama establish himself on the international terrorist scene, but there is NO proof whatsoever that he was actually ever directly employed by them, nor him ever being given direct orders or finances by them.

P

I think western intelligence provided the funds, and the Pakistani intelligence agency, the ISI usually got involved in the day to day affairs of the Mujahideen.
I could be wrong however. But in my opinion U.S.A has got some bad allies. I mean Saudi Arabia where pretty much a lot of the money for Jihadist organizations originate from and Pakistan, where a lot of the Jihadists got their training from. With friends like that, who needs enemies.

 

[VirusType2]

I think western intelligence provided the funds, and the Pakistani intelligence agency, the ISI usually got involved in the day to day affairs of the Mujahideen.
I could be wrong however. But in my opinion U.S.A has got some bad allies. I mean Saudi Arabia where pretty much a lot of the money for Jihadist organizations originate from and Pakistan, where a lot of the Jihadists got their training from. With friends like that, who needs enemies.

TO DO: Keep friends close, enemies closer.

 

[Gargantou]

TO DO: Keep friends close, enemies closer.

Though at that time they weren't enemies.

It's more of the classic saying "The enemy of my enemy is my friend", same reason the Western governments initialy supported Slobodan Milosevic.

 

[bbson john]

There should be a sub-forum called "ID vs Evolution, Global warming and 9/11 conspiracy forum".

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Or we could just ban everyone starting that kind of thread. It's easier.

 

[Vegeta897]

When I saw that Pi posted last in the thread I knew he would say exactly that. If he didn't, I was going to post it.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Looks like Vegeta had...

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