Do you think that the US should change the constitution to ban firearms?

[Steve]

Who made you judge and jury? maybe they are just drunk and confused about where they live and stumbled onto your porch by accindent. Now your scared and shoot them claiming self defense, happens all the time.

Let me rephrase it. They are NOT drunk, they are NOT confused, and they are pointing a gun at my face.

 

[Tr0n]

Gun owners are deluded

...and who made you the person that could rightfully judge others, because of what they have?

 

[Nickcpus]

Let me rephrase it. They are NOT drunk, they are NOT confused, and they are pointing a gun at my face.

Ok, under those circumstances...BAN GUNS and they wont be able to point them at you. Then wack-em over the head with something.

Why would they be pointing a gun at you any ways? What you do to them?

 

[Steve]

Ok, under those circumstances...BAN GUNS and they wont be able to point them at you. Then wack-em over the head with something.

No, they're criminals. Guns are banned, but they get theirs on the black market, so the law doesn't affect them.

Why would they be pointing a gun at you any ways? What you do to them?

Does it really matter WHY? Let's just say I have a videotape in my possession of their grandmother raping a ten-year-old boy and that I intend to turn it into the police. They obviously do not want this. Does that satisfy you?

 

[Iapetus]

"I'm from outside the US and I think the shouldn't."


The Nazis murdered 6m Jews, and about 5m others.

As in genocides since, huge numbers of people seemed content to go along quietly in the hope that compliance will delay their fate, even up to the point of digging their own graves and lining up peacefully to be shot. (Or even lining up to be shot after you have seen the previous batch suffer the same fate).

But what if a large proportion of the victims had been armed and willing to fight back?

If just 1 in 10 Jews had managed to shoot and kill a Nazi before they themselves were killed, that would be 600,000 dead Nazis. That's comparable to the total battle casualties for an Allied army. Assuming the Nazis could actually find enough people willing to carry out their plans in the face of such casualties.


"Ordinary civilians" MUST have the means and the will to resist such tyranny.


If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when victory will be sure and not so costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no chance of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. -- Winston Churchill

Never surrender to tyranny.
Never surrender your means to resist tyranny.

Molon Labe! :sniper:

 

[Recoil]

I'm like... pro civillian gun possession... but that 'The-Jews-got-killed-because-Hitler-didn't-allow-them-to-own-guns' is pure b/s...

(Heard that one before, btw)

 

[The Monkey]

Well, it works in Europe, so I don't see why it wouldn't work in the US.

 

[Steve]

Well, it works in Europe, so I don't see why it wouldn't work in the US.

Man, we tried this thing called Prohibition once here...yeah...It increased organized crime like a mother****er. We learned our lesson.

 

[burner69]

Not from the US.
Ban guns.
Crime would go down.
Less people would die.
And yes those are facts.
The only reason I can see that they're not banned is pride. "I should be able to defend my house, it's my right to have a gun."

Here's a fun fact; If you have a gun in your house you're more likely to be shot during a break in, and if you fire the weapon yourself you're more likely to shoot a member of your own family, or yourself, than the intruder.

 

[The Monkey]

Man, we tried this thing called Prohibition once here...yeah...It increased organized crime like a mother****er. We learned our lesson.

My english is not the best. Can you explain what that means?

 

[Iapetus]

but that 'The-Jews-got-killed-because-Hitler-didn't-allow-them-to-own-guns' is pure b/s...
QUOTE]

Why do you say that?

What do you think would have happened if there was a extensive gun-ownership and a strong culture of resistance?

 

[Steve]

My english is not the best. Can you explain what that means?

Back in the early 20th century, we passed a law that completely banned alcohol. In short, it didn't work.

 

[f|uke]

As California liberal as I am, I cant rightly justify banning all firearms.

But I do think we should have far more serious restrictions, regulations, and records.

 

[Tr0n]

Back in the early 20th century, we passed a law that completely banned alcohol. In short, it didn't work.

Exactly.

Go look up the guy called Al Capone and you would know.

 

[The Monkey]

Back in the early 20th century, we passed a law that completely banned alcohol. In short, it didn't work.

To ban alcohol and to ban firearms is not the same thing. We nearly banned alcohol too, but 51% of the people thought that wouldn't. But I guess that you are so used to have weapons, so it would be very hard to ban it, but in the length, I think it would be good for all of you.

 

[Recoil]

What do you think would have happened if there was a extensive gun-ownership and a strong culture of resistance?

Violence like that only'd create more counter-violence. The SS (or whoever 'gathered' them) would've shot them directly.

What you said (quoted?) up there is way too naive...

"...and if the cat was a horse it would ride up the tree."

Don't tell me you are pro-civillian possession b/c you're afraid of the government :|

 

[Nickcpus]

Well, it works in Europe, so I don't see why it wouldn't work in the US.

Read this

WEAPONS OF CHOICE
Russia backs U.S. gun-control advocates
Claims firearm manufacturers profit from Americans' fears

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Toby Westerman
© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com

Making a link between U.S. gun sales and "global instability," Moscow has lent its support to American gun-control advocates.

Russia supports restrictions on U.S. gun ownership, according to official sources, pointing out that after the events of Sept. 11 gun sales in the United States increased.

The blame for increased gun sales, according to Moscow and anti-gun activists, lies with gun manufacturers.

"American firearms manufacturers saw their chance at profiting from the tragedy of people scared of threats from international terrorists," Moscow declared. Asserting that "a nationwide campaign has been launched to advertise pistols and guns," Moscow referred to a recent press conference held to "draw attention to gun makers' marketing efforts." The event included participation by Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., and Nan Aron, president of the Alliance for Justice.

The statements were reported by the Voice of Russia World Service, the official broadcasting service of the Russian government.

The broadcast referred to two instances of the criminal use of firearms in the U.S. – a shooting in Indiana and the arrest of an individual for illegal possession of weapons near the White House – and declared that the crimes were "facts testifying to the spread of small arms in the country."

Moscow also constructed a strained connection between terrorists and gun-sales campaigns following 9-11. After noting that the U.S. State Department has threatened to deport aliens connected with some 39 organizations suspected of assisting terrorist groups, the link was made to gun sales.

"There are still a large number of people in the United States who could use the gun-sales campaign for criminal purposes," Moscow reasoned, and then called for "certain measures inside the United States, which would obstruct the terrorist activity."

Observers note that, since using weapons for criminal purposes is – by definition – illegal, Moscow's reference to "certain measures inside the United States" translates into restrictions on gun ownership for U.S. citizens.

The sale of a "United We Stand" 9-millimeter pistol – patterned after those used by U.S. military personnel – by the U.S. division of the Italian arms maker Beretta irked both Moscow and participants in the anti-gun news conference.

Beretta's promise to pay a portion of the sale of each pistol to survivors and relatives of the Sept. 11 attacks was particularly irritating to the gun-control advocates.

Moscow cited remarks from firearms opponent Aron who condemned Beretta's contribution offer, stating that "we shouldn't seek to help the victims of one senseless tragedy by increasing the likelihood of more senseless tragedies."

Moscow added that "the spread of small arms causes concern in many countries," and referred to a recent conference in the Russian capital linking "global instability with the spread of small arms."

The anti-gun activists with whom Moscow found close agreement are strengthening their efforts and are attempting to make the anti-gun movement into a youth crusade.

Aron's group, the Alliance for Justice, has opened a new website, Gun Industry Watch, dedicated to monitoring the "gun industry and the National Rifle Association."

The new anti-gun group proclaims itself to be "a new student watchdog network" that will examine "the manufacturing, marketing and sale of guns." The group promises to "take direct action aimed at gun makers and the gun lobby," including "exposing and boycotting corporate partners and sponsors of the gun lobby."

Gun Industry Watch claims that it is the "fastest growing student network in the country."

Moscow's connection of U.S. gun sales to problems of "global stability" are not new. In late July, the U.N. Conference on the Illicit Trade in Small Arms and Light Weapons concluded its deliberations.

Due to substantial U.S. pressure, the conference refrained from issuing a global call for "regulation on the ownership of small arms."

Observers note that many of the nations at the conference have placed severe small arms restrictions on their populations, and many of these same governments – as well as the leaders of these governments themselves – are regularly accused of murder, fraud and intimidation of their defenseless citizens

No, they're criminals. Guns are banned, but they get theirs on the black market, so the law doesn't affect them…..Does it really matter WHY? Let's just say I have a videotape in my possession of their grandmother raping a ten-year-old boy and that I intend to turn it into the police. They obviously do not want this. Does that satisfy you?.

Well first of all we don’t have guns where I live, so the criminals don’t have them. Secondly where is this so called black market, and why would you have a market if guns were illegal? We don’t have them. Video tape-grandmothers raping ten year olds sounds like you watch to much American tv, all that sex and violence goes to your head. If that happens where you live, it very very sad place, you could always move.





Like I said gun owners are scared and deluded.

 

[Recoil]

Like I said gun owners are scared and deluded.

That's not a very intelligent attitude...

...and you do know that there are gun owners, that shoot for sporting-purposes only, don't you?

 

[Steve]

Well first of all we don’t have guns where I live, so the criminals don’t have them. Secondly where is this so called black market, and why would you have a market if guns were illegal? We don’t have them.

I'm guessing English isn't your first language, sorry. Okay, the black market isn't an actual market. It's a term given to any underground or illegal sales of controlled goods.

Video tape-grandmothers raping ten year olds sounds like you watch to much American tv, all that sex and violence goes to your head. If that happens where you live, it very very sad place, you could always move.

Don't insult me. You asked a pointless question, so I gave you a stupid answer.


I don't own a gun.

 

[Desertrat]

With an armed citizenry: If politicians knew they could die, the odds are they would not pass laws enabling such as an SS. If would-be employees knew they could be shot by armed citizens in resistance to draconian law, they might well not join something like an SS.

I note that some people are willing to die in the name of Allah. Is it somehow totally irrational to be willing to die in the name of Liberty? Or, is it better to just "go with the flow"? Is there no cause at all to be worth dying for?

As far as defense of one's person, it is without exception that the data from law enforcement agencies concludes that the individual has proven to be effective in self-defense when not prohibited by law from doing so.

'Rat

 

[The Monkey]

Well first of all we don’t have guns where I live, so the criminals don’t have them. Secondly where is this so called black market, and why would you have a market if guns were illegal? We don’t have them. Video tape-grandmothers raping ten year olds sounds like you watch to much American tv, all that sex and violence goes to your head. If that happens where you live, it very very sad place, you could always move.


Like I said gun owners are scared and deluded.

You're not getting anywhere with that attitude.

 

[Tr0n]

Take it easy on Nickcpus guys...he's new to the politics forum.

 

[The Monkey]

Take it easy on Nickcpus guys...he's new to the politics forum.

That doesn't give him the right to insult other people, does it?

 

[Tr0n]

That doesn't give him the right to insult other people, does it?

Oh...didn't read his posts...

Since he done that...sure release hell on him.

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

Let 'em all kill each other. That's what I say.

 

[Nickcpus]

That's not a very intelligent attitude...
...and you do know that there are gun owners, that shoot for sporting-purposes only, don't you?

Sorry about that but you must realize that not all guns are used for that purpose. Its best just to ban them, you could still use air rifles for sporting purposes.

Don't insult me. You asked a pointless question, so I gave you a stupid answer.

I don’t mean to insult you, its just that we don’t have that much crime. I can’t understand why people in America are so afraid, why they believe they have to arm themselves to be safe.

You're not getting anywhere with that attitude.

So you don’t think all that sex and violence on American tv effects how the youth perceives their environment?

Take it easy on Nickcpus guys...he's new to the politics forum.

Thanks for the word

 

[firemachine69]

Who made you judge and jury? maybe they are just drunk and confused about where they live and stumbled onto your porch by accindent. Now your scared and shoot them claiming self defense, happens all the time.



Gun owners are deluded

Tough shit for them. A bullet wound or two will remind them that public intoxication is illegal in pretty much any city in the world.


All the "fears" people have of guns are simply myths. THERE'S NEVER BEEN A SINGLE STUDY THAT CAN SUCCESSFULLY CONCLUDE IT'S DANGEROUS FOR HOME OWNERS TO HAVE GUNS.

There are mishaps, but it could happen with anything, even a butter knife (don't ask). Truth be told, if the criminal really wants a gun, he can get one. That statement resounds so truly in my town, it's easier to get an illegal gun then a job... Sad really... So the home owner is defenceless.

"But those mishaps, let's make sure they can't happen!" some would say.

On that same basis, let's give capital punishement to parents who smoke in their houses, hey, it kills the kids, right? Something like 60000 people in my province alone die in a year from smoking or second-hand smoke. That's more then the ENTIRE amount of people that die in the United States from shootings.

Yet people STILL accept smoking twelve folds over guns... You gun opposers disgust me... Burn in hell.

 

[Steve]

I don’t mean to insult you, its just that we don’t have that much crime. I can’t understand why people in America are so afraid, why they believe they have to arm themselves to be safe.

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to judge one country's fears on another's crime rate.

 

[The Monkey]

So you don’t think all that sex and violence on American tv effects how the youth perceives their environment?

From what I've hears/seen, the americans are very modest when it comes to sex and violence on TV. They censur a lot of thing. In that case, I think europe is worse. But I have never lived in the US , so I don't know for sure.

 

[Steve]

From what I've hears/seen, the americans are very modest when it comes to sex and violence on TV. They censur a lot of thing. In that case, I think europe is worse. But I have never lived in the US , so I don't know for sure.

Yep. Everybody got their panties in a wad last year over the Superbowl halftime show where Janet Jackson's tit popped out. There's nothing too gory on TV, either.

Movies are another story.

 

[Nickcpus]

Tough shit for them. A bullet wound or two will remind them that being drunk in public is illegal in pretty much any city in the world.

You don't mean that...not really....I hope you don't.

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to judge one country's fears on another's crime rate.

It does if the two are conected. It sounds like your more affraid of what might happen instead of being affraid of what is happening. Guns are killing inocent people I know you don't want that to happen.

 

[firemachine69]

I do, 100%.

If they die, well f**k they deserved to anyways, too much of that stupid scum on this planet, think of it as taking out the garbage.

See my edit BTW.

 

[Steve]

It does if the two are conected. It sounds like your more affraid of what might happen instead of being affraid of what is happening. Guns are killing inocent people I know you don't want that to happen.

Yes, guns are killing innocent people. But that's not because they walk into the home of a gun owner.

Okay, so you're in Mexico? No, no it doesn't make sense. Explain to me how two different countries with two (admit it) compeletely different cultures can be judged by each other's crime rates. By your logic, you guys are all ridiculous optimists.

 

[CptStern]

51 to 9!?!, there's just no hope for you people

 

[Tr0n]

Man I love watching/reading these types of debates.

 

[Steve]

51 to 9!?!, there's just no hope for you people

I dunno...with those kind of numbers, looks like we'd do pretty well in a war against all you pussies. (kidding...)

 

[Tr0n]

51 to 9!?!, there's just no hope for you people

Hey...we are americans whatcha expect?

 

[Tr0n]

I dunno...with those kind of numbers, looks like we'd do pretty well in a war against all you pussies. (kidding...)

Ok...found my new sig.

 

[Steve]

Ok...found my new sig.

Perhaps you should give it context.

 

[Tr0n]

Perhaps you should give it context.

Well tell me what context or whatever to put.