Do you think this is just?

[Llama]

Thus, the world was pleased when it realised Hydrometer would never be in a position of political power.

On topic, life in prison seems fitting.

 

[CptStern]

They should be automatically executed one day after the verdict and death sentence by hanging or firing squad.

so in other wordss ... "no, I dont understand the appeals process"

That's a contemporary definition of justice, but torture can be justice nonetheless.

meaningless gibberish and completely contradictory

Not really.

ok then provide proof that it's informed opinion ..present your sources

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Hydrometeor, you still haven't answered sterns questions - where is your evidence that execution would reduce prison costs?
With torture and execution, what would happen if the person is innocent? "Oh ,we're sorry suspect 1 is scard for the rest of his life, which y'know, he didn't do anything to deserve. Oh yeah, and we executed suspect 2, though new evidence shows he was also innocent. Aw well, you can't win em all"

 

[hydrometeor]

so in other wordss ... "no, I dont understand the appeals process"

I do understand the appeals process. I don't think the state should pay for the cost. I guess it would be acceptable if the defendant pays all the court fees to appeal a guilty verdict.

ok then provide proof that it's informed opinion ..present your sources

A long appeals process is extremely costly. Do I really need to prove this to you?

 

[hydrometeor]

Hydrometeor, you still haven't answered sterns questions - where is your evidence that execution would reduce prison costs?
With torture and execution, what would happen if the person is innocent? "Oh ,we're sorry suspect 1 is scard for the rest of his life, which y'know, he didn't do anything to deserve. Oh yeah, and we executed suspect 2, though new evidence shows he was also innocent. Aw well, you can't win em all"

It costs thousands of dollars to keep a person alive every year in a clean prison, and to monitor them, etc. It's extremely expensive. Killing the person gets rid of this cost. Do I need to quote sources on this or do you believe me?

Also, I don't care if an innocent person gets executed for every 10 guilty people. It's an acceptable risk. They were all given fair trials through a jury. The chances of dying in a car accident are much higher than a faulty court killing you.

 

[No Limit]

hydrometeor so you are saying we as citizens don't deserve an appeals process unless we pay the millions of dollars that it costs?

Do I have to point out to you the hundreds if not thousands of cases where people spent most of their life in prison only to be found not guilty later on? I guess **** them if it saves us a few bucks.

I don't get why people advocate the death penalty. Not only is it sad these people get a joy from seeing someone die but they simply don't understand what kind of mental torture prison is. And this applies to an american prison, I can't imagine how much worse prisons are in certain other countries. I would much rather have a person that did something like this spend the rest of their lives in prison with a bunch of other thug assholes to think about what they did than enjoy a quick death which in reality isn't really quick, in most cases it takes 15-25 years for a person to be put to death (in this country). So really, whats the point?

 

[hydrometeor]

hydrometeor so you are saying we as citizens don't deserve an appeals process unless we pay the millions of dollars that it costs?

Exactly.

Do I have to point out to you the hundreds if not thousands of cases where people spent most of their life in prison only to be found not guilty later on? I guess **** them if it saves us a few bucks.

IIRC, this has happened to less than 200 people. This is a much lower number than the amount of people who've been struck by lightning. Every government makes mistakes. You might as well be an anarchist if you expect a criminal justice system to be perfect. Jailing not guilty people is also a terrible thing, and yet you only focus on the death penalty.

I don't get why people advocate the death penalty. Not only is it sad these people get a joy from seeing someone die but they simply don't understand what kind of mental torture prison is. And this applies to an american prison, I can't imagine how much worse prisons are in certain other countries. I would much rather have a person that did something like this spend the rest of their lives in prison with a bunch of other thug assholes to think about what they did than enjoy a quick death which in reality isn't really quick, in most cases it takes 15-25 years for a person to be put to death (in this country).

It decreases prison costs if it's used correctly.

edit:

If you aren't guilty after the appeals process that you paid for (under my system), then the government should refund your money.

 

[CptStern]

I do understand the appeals process. I don't think the state should pay for the cost. I guess it would be acceptable if the defendant pays all the court fees to appeal a guilty verdict.

your personal opinion is meaningless ..trial by jury automatically entitles the accused to an appeal ..the judge can waive that right but all accused have a right to appeal their sentence

A long appeals process is extremely costly. Do I really need to prove this to you?

so the only impedence to the meting out of justice should whether it's expensive or not? money is more important than life? ..again your personal opinion is completely meaningless

 

[hydrometeor]

your personal opinion is meaningless ..trial by jury automatically entitles the accused to an appeal ..the judge can waive that right but all accused have a right to appeal their sentence

It's not meaningless - I want things to be a certain way. Are you saying that the status quo is the only thing that matters?

so the only impedence to the meting out of justice should whether it's expensive or not? money is more important than life? ..again your personal opinion is completely meaningless

Rich people are more valuable to society than the poor. My opinion here is not meaningless. And the cost is very important. Would you be fine if the government paid 5 billion dollars for a trial?

 

[CptStern]

It's not meaningless - I want things to be a certain way. Are you saying that the status quo is the only thing that matters?

twisting my words to mean something completely idiotic, quelle surprise (this seems to be the tactic favoured these days) ..the point is that YES it is meaningless because the LAW doesnt care what you think ..people are entitled to rights, whether you agree with them or not is completely meaningless

Rich people are more valuable to society than the poor. My opinion here is not meaningless.

giberish, what do rich people have to do with anything, your statements are idiotic

 

[No Limit]

IIRC, this has happened to less than 200 people. This is a much lower number than the amount of people who've been struck by lightning.

Where did you get that "less than 200" number, out of your ass?

The innocence project lists over 250 cases that they alone contributed to. Certain states actually exonarated more people on death row than they have executed.

And you say its okay for government to execute innocent people because shit happens, and at the same time say there should be no safety check to make sure shit doesnt happen. How can you say something that idiotic. Its terrible but sometimes I wish shit like this would happen to people like you. At least then these government mistakes would contribute something to society.

 

[No Limit]

And another thing on that "rich people contribute more to soceity" bullshit. I would love to see a country without poor people to produce your food. A country with no workforce to ship, assemble, and test things like your computer or build the house you are living in. See how long that country lasts.

You are a work of art, I have never ran into anyone as arrogant and as close minded as you. I'm honestly sitting here in shock.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Rich people are more valuable to society than the poor.

Where the hell did that come from? Just completely random and out of place. And your wrong. As has been stated, if the lower classes weren't around all countries would collapse. The rich are the least important because they don't have to do anything.

 

[JNightshade]

Lock him up for good.

 

[Operational]

Lock him up for good.

Who? The rapist or hydrometeor?

 

[Kula Meenur]

Jesus Christ the mother ****ing Shaolin Monk. He needs to die.

Seconded

 

[Darkside55]

I find it kind of disturbing that people get satisfaction from someone dying, even more disturbing that people like Darkside even advocate torture to satisfy their bloodlust. But then again, at least he is consistent, because it's impossible to be pro death penalty but against torture. Satisfaction of barbaric emotions is all it has to offer, other than that there is no reason to kill someone who no longer poses a threat.

"It's impossible to be pro death penalty but against torture."

"...there is no reason to kill someone who no longer poses a threat."

Not true on either account. I'm generally against torture. TBH, if they handed this guy the death sentence and didn't torture him in the least, I'd still say justice was served. If you ever hear me talk about torture, it's only as an expression of my anger, but never as the thought of an actual, viable solution. Because torture for a crime is, of itself, nothing but self-serving gratification for the victims. And I have said countless times that the law is not about appeasing victims.

I have also said countless times that there are reasons to execute criminals. Hydrometeor's already brought up the cost aspect, which, although he hasn't really elaborated in-depth on how it would cut down costs, I have, somewhere. I just woke up, so I apologize that I can't be arsed to go digging around the forums for it right now...suffice to say it was something about calculating the amount of money it takes for someone to be placed into death row and the cost of all procedures to get them to an execution chamber, versus the cost of a single lead bullet and the subsequent cleanup cost of said bullet. And that's just one way to do it. There's always rope.

Speaking of which, I'm getting roped into another death penalty discussion. Oh lord, how many times have I argued this one? I'm sure Stern's got the count. We've debated this point in at least three threads. Maybe closer to five. Ah well, unavoidable topic.

Also...holy shit, Hydro's like a little version of me. Not completely the same but the fundamentals are there. Some things you're off on, Hydro:

Rich people aren't more important than the poor. That's a very wild generalization that, simply because of how large the gap is and the number of people who exist in those classes (many, many, many more poor and middle class people than there are rich people), your statement cannot be true even based on that. No Limit's right...these people form the backbone of the economy.

Second thing you're wrong on, 200 cases of false imprisonment? Try thousands every year. So, you're wrong on that. It is a SERIOUS problem with the legal system and the number of people it affects isn't one you can just write off. Were it only 200 cases, even 200 cases per year, perhaps I could say, "Can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs." The way it is in the real world, you'd be making an omlette by smashing all the eggs in your local grocery store save for the two you use to make your omlette.

You're not the only one who's wrong in here though. No Limit, life in prison isn't so terrible as movies and television would have you believe. "Mental torture?" Pfft. Do you even know anybody who's ever lived in prison for a long time? Ask them about "mental torture."

 

[Geogaddi]

:|

 

[15357]

umm was it over 100 women raped or over 100 instances of rape of a few victems ..more than 100 separate women sounds a little far fetched as that would mean the police are completely incompetent ...anyways I'd like to see the details before I pass judgement, where is your source Numbers? ..but in any event how is death payment for his crimes? life imprisonment sounds a lot worse than a quick death ..especially since SK prisons are not the same as western prisons ..I mean if they routinely infringe on citizens rights what rights can criminals hope for? oh and before you vehemently deny criminals of rights I'd like to remind you that as a signatory to the UN charter you are bound by it's laws; therefore criminals are afford basic human rights, regardless if you agree or not

Saw it over the news. Anyway, this guy did it over a period of 10 years. All over the country.

He was sentenced to execution, because "It is most certain that he will commit these heinious crimes again, considering his nature, and it is nescesary to quarantine him from society forever."

But the sentence was reduced, because "Any harm that he has done was mostly psychological, and he seems to deeply regret his actions."


Also, our prisons are much better than western ones, as we have no cases of rape. :/

No criminal ever in jail has complained about human rights abuses since the 80s, and that was political prisoners in education centers..

 

[Mr-Fusion]

He needs to suffer in a Korean rape prison.

Sir, i must ask a question.

How does a rape prison differ to a regular prison?

 

[Jintor]

Also, our prisons are much better than western ones, as we have no cases of rape. :/

No criminal ever in jail has complained about human rights abuses since the 80s, and that was political prisoners in education centers..

I'd think the correct statement would be 'No criminals complaining of rape have been reported... we have no reported cases of rape'... etc.

 

[The Monkey]

"What are you talking about, rape is just penetration!"

Does anyone remember that guy?

 

[Instinct]

Meh, kill him. I don't want him around the normal prisoners who have only raped a few people.

 

[.Wolf.]

slowly feed him to hobo's.

 

[MTGunNut]

Kill the bastard.

.22lr to various sensitive locations, then the head.

 

[15357]

Kill the bastard.

.22lr to various sensitive locations, then the head.

Not enough sensitive locations.... ears maybe, but if you shoot him in the leg, it shatters his bones and punctures the arteries and he dies in just 5 minutes or so. :/

 

[DEATH eVADER]

He needs his bollocks permenently clamped with gator-teeth and electrodes

That would be 30 minutes of pure, agonising death