Does Kojima suck?

Is Kojima a good writer?

  • Total voters
    72
Gray Fox said:
In his defense, real life is far wierder then fiction, fiction actually has to make sense atleast on a certain level, which mgs2 does.
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No, MGS2 makes no sense whatsoever. C'mon, vampires, chicks who can't die, a group of 12 DEAD guys ruling the world? None of the MGS games are really frontrunners for the most realestic games in the industry, but MGS2 is just outtt there.
 
The disk with the Patriots probably wasn't real. Fortune not dying was apart of the Patriots plan. And Vamp...well, I'm sure he'll be explained in MGS4.
 
DeusExMachina said:
The disk with the Patriots probably wasn't real. Fortune not dying was apart of the Patriots plan. And Vamp...well, I'm sure he'll be explained in MGS4.
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-Ok

-Still, her being able to dodge bullets and have rockets fly at her at the end was total bullshit.

-Vamp got shot three times in the torso and fell into the ocean, and he still lived. Not to mention he's faster than Sonic the Freakin' Hedgehog.
 
But all those things have a purpose within the context of the game and it's design. A large part of metal gear is spent toying with the player. He does this on purpose so his message comes of clearer, and to raise queations. You have to understand that in mgs2 the characters and most of the rest of the game serve the message not the other way around, and since the message is abstract so is the rest of the story.
 
Gray Fox said:
But all those things have a purpose within the context of the game and it's design. A large part of metal gear is spent toying with the player. He does this on purpose so his message comes of clearer, and to raise queations. You have to understand that in mgs2 the characters and most of the rest of the game serve the message not the other way around, and since the message is abstract so is the rest of the story.
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Yeah, I get that, but that doens't make it "realestic"
 
Metal Gear Solid is okay.

The dialouge is very droning, and every little "nuance" in the story is more like a truck ramming you in the face then a suddle hint.

The story for the MGS series is okay (cept for MGS 2, major acid trip.) My only problem with Metal Gear is that its so serious.
In Metal Gear Solid 3 you have a minigame where you chase monkeys, a movie gallery filled with what appears to be saturday night live sketches, yet in the actual game I never see anyone even crack a smile.
Its one of those stories that takes itself so seriously you can't help but make fun of it.
 
i don't like MGS simply because i find it to be the usual assortment of stupid anime crap dressed up slightly in a military theme.

Used to be a big anime fan, but now i abhor it. go figure.
 
Samon said:
None. Though I'd say HL2s dialogue is as close to perfect as you can get.
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I agree with you on that. No dialogue is ever perfect but Half-Life 2's dialogue is the best I've heard ever in a video game.

Anyway about Kojima, his writing is far from perferct and needs a lot of work. He needs himself an editor or needs to start writing better (yeah, I also think that MGS2's dialogue really got screwed up in Arsenal Gear). Also, I enjoy the MGS series and hope that the dialogue will improve in MGS4.

Sorry for double post, delete the post above this one.
 
There was nothing wrong with the dialogue at the end, that's just how GW talks, in a sophisticated and thought out manner.
 
Well I know that, I'm mainly talking about the part when Colonel says a bunch of random things like turn the game console off (they did make me laugh though).
 
Well I think that was supposed to be ironic and awkward. And of course, it was intentional.
 
My friend had been playing for 8 hours staight when he got to that point, he thought it was a measure to stop people playing the game for too long and straining their eyes :LOL:
 
Oh my god, and here I was thinking all of you were creaming your shorts over that twat face. I strongly dislike Kojima and his masturbatory attitude. Everything is about him and his retarded video game, that is, if you ask him.

I mean, people talk about how cool, and militarily realistic it is, but at the end of the day, you have idiots running around with trenchcoats and sunglasses who call them things like "revolver ocelot" and spin their guns around in the air while talking about their secret plan for world domination.

If a real operative came across an enemy like this, he would neutralize him with probably two upper chest shots and a face/heat shot before and of that anime bullshit could come out of his retarded mouth.
 
The turn of your console part was part joke, but mostly a very important tool to raise questions in your mind, and reveal an important aspect of the story. The story in mgs2 deals a lot of social sanity controll, and how the patriots want to test if they can create the context and the means to controll your behavior, now if you think about it a game does exactly that, it creates a context for you in which to act, and gives you the illusion of free will while it's actually guiding you trough, constatntly manipulating your emotion to make you do certain things.

Now an important part of mgs2 is kojima's message to think for yourself, thats why at the end Raiden is a blank slate and you realise the hero's yourney is done in reverse.

The turn of your console part and stop playing is in part an early hint of one of it's main theme's which is stop letting yourself be so easly manipulated.

It's not subtle, it's in your face kojimastyle that totally wakes you up, and thats what it's supposed to do. Otherwise it wouldn't have the same effect, now you can find it more annoying then fun since it killes the immersion, and the fact that it's so in your face. But you can't honestly say it's simply stupid, different people have different tastes, and this just doesn't suit you.
 
I never thought MGS was that great.
 
I like to think a lot of the silly dialogue is down to translation problems more than anything; he might actually be a very talented writer. He does incorporate interesting ideas and debate into his stories, and I don't mind him having fun with the format, but I do think he needs someone to slap him every now and then and remind him that he's creating video games and not a book or mini-series. With video games you simply can't afford to have half hour long cut scenes, especially when you can repeat what was said in a much shorter time without losing any real dramatic impact or even taking away control from the player.

That said, MGS is an awesome series and I love it to bits. :D
 
Xenosaga games do it quite well :D

Though, I'm sure everyone here who has problems with the MGS series would find the same problems with Xenosaga.
 
ríomhaire said:
My friend had been playing for 8 hours staight when he got to that point, he thought it was a measure to stop people playing the game for too long and straining their eyes :LOL:
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lol same with me, it weirded me out, i was like ''wtf? maybe i have been playing too long'':p
 
Glo-Boy said:
Oh my god, and here I was thinking all of you were creaming your shorts over that twat face. I strongly dislike Kojima and his masturbatory attitude. Everything is about him and his retarded video game, that is, if you ask him.

I mean, people talk about how cool, and militarily realistic it is, but at the end of the day, you have idiots running around with trenchcoats and sunglasses who call them things like "revolver ocelot" and spin their guns around in the air while talking about their secret plan for world domination.

If a real operative came across an enemy like this, he would neutralize him with probably two upper chest shots and a face/heat shot before and of that anime bullshit could come out of his retarded mouth.
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Yeah, that's what I hate about those kind of games. There's the bad guy, the guy you've been hunting down trying to kill for your entire mission. But instead of shooting him in the head you get to watch a cutscene with some stupid witty banter or a long speech. (another good example of this is C&C: Renegade)
 
DeusExMachina said:
Xenosaga games do it quite well :D

Though, I'm sure everyone here who has problems with the MGS series would find the same problems with Xenosaga.
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Thnks for bringing that up, xenogears is the prequel on the psx to xenosaga for the ps2. For everyone who hates MGS you have to read this:
http://lotusreaver.com/reviews/index.php?section=xenogears
And this from the same person that wrote this: http://lotusreaver.com/articles/index.php?section=raiden_vs_gamer
So he obviously does not mind mgs, if even he thinks xgears is annoying.
 
He doesn't suck, but he's extremely overrated. He is in serious need of an editor.

The dialogue in his games go to an excess, and it's often boring, pretentious, and overly drawn out. He seems like a person who would be better suited to film, because the dramatic and overused cutscenes often cast a shadow on the actual thin gameplay.

And as for his "messages"? Tripe. Look, I'm all up for political/philosophical discourse in my entertainment... if it's done right. Kojima, however, beats it into the player's face with all the subtlety of a brick. Moments of gold are flooded in a sea of muddled garbage.

There's also his questionable design decisions. Yes, yes, let's fool everybody into thinking they'll be playing as Snake in MGS2. But when they've finally bought the game, they'll realize too late that they'll be playing Raiden for 80% of the damn experience! Thank you, Kojima. But I'd prefer not to shell out fifty dollars for your stupid psych experiment. And the amount of twists and turns that take place in his "plots" amount to meandering around piles of mumbo jumbo. Guess who doesn't give a shit by the end of the ordeal? Me.

Basically, he needs some kind control that allows him to get his core ideas into the games, but stop him from diving straight into bullshit worthless indulgence.
 
Absinthe said:
He doesn't suck, but he's extremely overrated.

There's also his questionable design decisions. Yes, yes, let's fool everybody into thinking they'll be playing as Snake in MGS2. But when they've finally bought the game, they'll realize too late that they'll be playing Raiden for 80% of the damn experience! Thank you, Kojima. But I'd prefer not to shell out fifty dollars for your stupid psych experiment.
.
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See, I didn't mind the whole "haha, play Snake for an hour, then play as Raiden for the next 12!" I think MGS2 would have sucked just as badly if Snake was the main character. I LIKED MGS2's story up until the ending where it started to feel like a bad David Lynch flick, I just hated how slow the gameplay was, it was like you were going in a circle the whole time. Plus, the boss battles sucked.
 
I thought the conversation with Colonel at the end was interesting and worthwhile, if I considered it a separete entity unto itself. But that was one of the few redeeming aspects of that game.
 
Absinthe said:
He doesn't suck, but he's extremely overrated. He is in serious need of an editor.

The dialogue in his games go to an excess, and it's often boring, pretentious, and overly drawn out. He seems like a person who would be better suited to film, because the dramatic and overused cutscenes often cast a shadow on the actual thin gameplay.

And as for his "messages"? Tripe. Look, I'm all up for political/philosophical discourse in my entertainment... if it's done right. Kojima, however, beats it into the player's face with all the subtlety of a brick. Moments of gold are flooded in a sea of muddled garbage.

There's also his questionable design decisions. Yes, yes, let's fool everybody into thinking they'll be playing as Snake in MGS2. But when they've finally bought the game, they'll realize too late that they'll be playing Raiden for 80% of the damn experience! Thank you, Kojima. But I'd prefer not to shell out fifty dollars for your stupid psych experiment. And the amount of twists and turns that take place in his "plots" amount to meandering around piles of mumbo jumbo. Guess who doesn't give a shit by the end of the ordeal? Me.

Basically, he needs some kind control that allows him to get his core ideas into the games, but stop him from diving straight into bullshit worthless indulgence.
Click to expand...


God you've so grown on me.
 
You guys are just making me want to play everything after Twin Snakes even more.

It sounds so twisted and strange, and fun.
 
If I wanted to play through the first 3 MGS games I'd have to buy a console, right?
 
Murray_H said:
If I wanted to play through the first 3 MGS games I'd have to buy a console, right?
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MGS 1 and 2 are on the PC, but I'm guessing it's next to impossible to find them. Plus, I can't imagine playing those games on a keyboard...
 
I've only experienced the stories for MGS 1 and 2, but from those I'd have to say that Kojima is terrible. The plots tend towards the typical ridiculously muddled, nebulous and pretentious kind of thing that the Japanese seem to love so much but which only ever hits the mark by accident. Towards the end of MGS2 the plot disappears so far up its own arse that it's peering out through its teeth. MGS1 appeared to shamelessly lift small story elements from Snow Crash (Raven & the gubbins about Aleutians) but without managing to appear half as cool as that book. Story aside, the games were good, but when it comes to plot my thresholds for aimlessness, pretentiousness and cheese are set pretty low. Not my style.
 
I just read every wikipedia article on MGS and I must say the Patriots now intrige me.
 
Well, my post might have seemed a little biased. IMO he is terrible, but I don't like MGS. Which proboaly doesn't help me think highly of him. I'm not saying he's good, I'm just saying I don't like MGS in the first place.
 
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