Drafted into the war in Iraq what would you do?

[Dynasty]

It's a hypothetical situation set in a dystopian futureworld where you are drafted into the US army, nub!

My action: survive and write a novel of my experiences.

I would call it "Irate in Iraq" and become rich and also famous.

Or just change the name of the Andy McNab books and alter the country names to 'Iraq' in each one?

 

[Solaris]

Bravo two zero?

 

[DEATHMASTER]

The best war machine ever? Counter-strike players remote operating gun wielding robots (I'm sure someone could come up with a non-malfuntioning aimbot too, o that would suck to be the enemy)

 

[CptStern]

If I could pass the medical I'd already be in the military.

So, I think it's obvious that I would quite gladly go.

there's always civilian contractors ...I hear there's always a need for those

 

[Ennui]

Conscientious objection pushed as far as it can go; fleeing to Canada as a last resort.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Tough call. Part of me says I'd do it while another part says FLEE FLEE FLEE, YOU DON'T EVEN BELIEVE IN THE WAR, WHY WOULD YOU EVEN CONSIDER THINKING ABOUT IT.

Probably because I'm indifferent.

I'd probably do something like Sulk did and write a book about my experiences.

 

[Solaris]

I'd rather fight the conscriptors than the insurgents.

 

[Raziaar]

I'd rather fight the conscriptors than the insurgents.

Tell us something we don't already know. :cheese:

 

[repiV]

there's always civilian contractors ...I hear there's always a need for those

Yes, but they generally have to be ex-SAS/SBS or Royal Marines at a stretch.

 

[CptStern]

not really, there's a ton of contracts that dont require military experience: truck driver, gas station attendant, oil baron, collector of money hats

 

[kirovman]

I know someone who flies cargo in and out of Baghdad from Bahrain every night. They're just a civilian pilot, but they get paid enormous amounts.

They can't use landing lights to land though, and they have to do evasive maneuvers as standard. Scary stuff.

 

[repiV]

not really, there's a ton of contracts that dont require military experience: truck driver, gas station attendant, oil baron, collector of money hats

I wanted to join the military, not spend time in Iraq just for the sake of it.

 

[CptStern]

well there's over 3,756 contractors who lost their lives ...I doubt they were there for the hell of it ....besides I thought you didnt support the war

 

[repiV]

I know someone who flies cargo in and out of Baghdad from Bahrain every night. They're just a civilian pilot, but they get paid enormous amounts.

They can't use landing lights to land though, and they have to do evasive maneuvers as standard. Scary stuff.

Yeah. I saw close protection officers are getting paid over £100,000 a month in Iraq.

 

[repiV]

well there's over 600 contractors who lost their lives ...I doubt they were there for the hell of it ....besides I thought you didnt support the war

You're right, I don't. Do you do your job because you believe in the company and what it stands for, or do you do it because you get something out of it and it pays well?

 

[CptStern]

the probability that I'll be killed/maimed doesnt factor into my choice of employment ..so no, company loyalty only goes so far

 

[Solaris]

Theres a difference between working for a boss who's a dick and taking part in the occupation of a country.

 

[repiV]

the probability that I'll be killed/maimed doesnt factor into my choice of employment ..so no, company loyalty only goes so far

Well, no war would stop me wanting to be a fighter pilot. A particularly horrific war like Korea or Vietnam might make me think twice about joining the Marines, though. Although not if I thought the war was just.

 

[kirovman]

My boss is occupying Wales D:

Well, no war would stop me wanting to be a fighter pilot.

Hmm, fighter pilot has been one of my interests a long time ago, but it's a high hurdle to get over.

 

[Solaris]

I don't see how you can think it's okay for me to be a fighter pilot and probably kill alot of civillians in a war I think is unjust, but its okay becuase being a fighter pilot is cool.

Morals > cool factor.

 

[CptStern]

Well, no war would stop me wanting to be a fighter pilot. A particularly horrific war like Korea or Vietnam might make me think twice about joining the Marines, though. Although not if I thought the war was just.

alright Mr Pilot ..gulf war Feb 1991 ..your job is to bomb infractructures from intelligence provided to you by Centcom (US intelligence) the targets are water treatment/sanitation treatment plants

do you follow orders? if the answer is yes ..congratulations you've just killed 500,000 iraqi children

 

[repiV]

I don't see how you can think it's okay for me to be a fighter pilot and probably kill alot of civillians in a war I think is unjust, but its okay becuase being a fighter pilot is cool.

Morals > cool factor.

Oh, so it's okay if it's a war you agree with?
Civilians die in war. This isn't news.

Besides, where did I say anything about a cool factor? I love flying, I love adrenaline, and I strive to be the best.
Furthermore, I also love community, belonging and being part of something greater than myself - you know, something that's majorly lacking in the civilian world these days but not in the military.

alright Mr Pilot ..gulf war Feb 1991 ..your job is to bomb infractructures from intelligence provided to you by Centcom (US intelligence) the targets are water treatment/sanitation treatment plants

do you follow orders? if the answer is yes ..congratulations you've just killed 500,000 iraqi children

What, exactly, is your point?
You insult all servicemen and women by your comments.

 

[Stigmata]

alright Mr Pilot ..gulf war Feb 1991 ..your job is to bomb infractructures from intelligence provided to you by Centcom (US intelligence) the targets are water treatment/sanitation treatment plants

do you follow orders? if the answer is yes ..congratulations you've just killed 500,000 iraqi children

F'ING ROFL

I... I'm sorry. I pictured one plane dropping one bomb on one target, but that target happened to be a building covered by a pile of 500,000 Iraqi children all holding hands and singing "One World"

 

[Solaris]

Oh, so it's okay if it's a war you agree with?
Civilians die in war. This isn't news.

Of course it is okay to fight if the war is just.
The consequences of the Iraqi invasion is 600,000+ lives, when the stakes are so high, you have to absolutely sure that by helping such an invasion you are doing the right thing. You however agree it is an unjust war, so how can you defend wanting to take part in it?

Besides, where did I say anything about a cool factor? I love flying, I love adrenaline, and I strive to be the best.

Is it right that your love of flying is more important than the childrens lives your love of flying will end? Becuase thats what it boils down to,

Furthermore, I also love community, belonging and being part of something greater than myself - you know, something that's majorly lacking in the civilian world these days but not in the military.

You love thoose things? Then why the hell would you want to deny other people that right by killing them.

What, exactly, is your point?
You insult all servicemen and women by your comments.

I stand by Sterns comments. Our servicemen and women, althought thinking perhaps they are doing the right thing, are not. Anyone who signs up to the army now and knows they will get sent to Iraq, well, the blood is on their hands.

 

[CptStern]

What, exactly, is your point?
You insult all servicemen and women by your comments.

because I referred to an actual event as it happened?

..the point is that if you dont believe a war is just and are called upon to make morally questionable decisions doesnt that make you just as culpable as those that sent you there? ...just following orders as an excuse went out with the nuremberg trials

but I digress

 

[repiV]

Of course it is okay to fight if the war is just.

Who gets to define what is and isn't a "just" war?
Iraq will benefit enormously from our presence there, providing we don't cut and run. Despite whether or not we should be there, you make it sound like living under Saddam was great. The worst thing we could possibly do to the Iraqi people now is leave - and yet that's exactly what you want.
It could have been over a long time ago if Rumsfeld wasn't a moron and lots more troops were committed.
You would consider a communist uprising "just". I would consider it a murderous travesty conducted by, to quote Admiral Bosch from Freespace 2, "an army of outlaws - driven by their fears, their prejudices and their insecurities".

The consequences of the Iraqi invasion is 600,000+ lives, when the stakes are so high, you have to absolutely sure that by helping such an invasion you are doing the right thing. You however agree it is an unjust war, so how can you defend wanting to take part in it?

What would change if I wasn't there?

Is it right that your love of flying is more important than the childrens lives your love of flying will end? Becuase thats what it boils down to,
You love thoose things? Then why the hell would you want to deny other people that right by killing them.


I stand by Sterns comments. Our servicemen and women, althought thinking perhaps they are doing the right thing, are not. Anyone who signs up to the army now and knows they will get sent to Iraq, well, the blood is on their hands.

It is only because of the military that your whining arse is allowed to express itself freely. Have some respect.

 

[repiV]

because I referred to an actual event as it happened?

..the point is that if you dont believe a war is just and are called upon to make morally questionable decisions doesnt that make you just as culpable as those that sent you there? ...just following orders as an excuse went out with the nuremberg trials

but I digress

Your comments indicate an obvious disdain for anyone serving in the military.
Iraq doesn't exactly compare to the Nazis, either.

 

[CptStern]

why would you even suggest such a baseless comparison? the nuremberg defense exists

and point out exactly which words led you to believe I have a disdain for the military? ..my comments have nothing to do with individual soldiers

 

[repiV]

why would you even suggest such a baseless comparison? the nuremberg defense exists

and point out exactly which words led you to believe I have a disdain for the military? ..my comments have nothing to do with individual soldiers

These words:

alright Mr Pilot ..gulf war Feb 1991 ..your job is to bomb infractructures from intelligence provided to you by Centcom (US intelligence) the targets are water treatment/sanitation treatment plants

do you follow orders? if the answer is yes ..congratulations you've just killed 500,000 iraqi children

Combined with comments you have made in the past indicating that American soldiers are stupid.

 

[Solaris]

It is only because of the military that your whining arse is allowed to express itself freely. Have some respect.

The British military has a past with very shameful acts commited by it, even in the last 100 years. Indefensable acts that have denied countries their freedom, our army also saved us from the Nazis, but that does not make the modern day army imune from critisism.

 

[Raziaar]

well there's over 3,756 contractors who lost their lives ...I doubt they were there for the hell of it ....besides I thought you didnt support the war

Umm... I thought the number is more like 600-900 and not closer to 4000?

 

[repiV]

The British military has a past with very shameful acts commited by it, even in the last 100 years. Indefensable acts that have denied countries their freedom, our army also saved us from the Nazis, but that does not make the modern day army imune from critisism.

Criticise the government, not the military.

Perhaps you simply don't understand the importance of force in the preservation of the nation-state. Your nation-state, in this case. If you condemn the military, you condemn your country and all its inhabitants and you don't deserve to walk amongst us.
It's got jack shit to do with party politics.

 

[Solaris]

Criticise the government, not the military.

Perhaps you simply don't understand the importance of force in the preservation of the nation-state. Your nation-state, in this case. If you condemn the military, you condemn your country and all its inhabitants and you don't deserve to walk amongst us.
It's got jack shit to do with party politics.

So if I critise the country I don't deserve to live?

WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

 

[repiV]

So if I critise the country I don't deserve to live?

WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

You can criticise the country all you want. I never said anything of the sort. Drop the hysterics.
If you have no concern for the safety of this country's citizenry, and do not care about preserving our identity as a nation, then you do not deserve to live here. You are not one of us.
It's got nothing to do with criticism.

 

[CptStern]

These words:

I dont get it ...because I make a valid point all of the sudden I hate the military?

Combined with comments you have made in the past indicating that American soldiers are stupid.

I dont recall calling them all stupid ..but you digress ..you still didnt answer the moral dilemna

 

[Solaris]

You can criticise the country all you want. I never said anything of the sort. Drop the hysterics.
If you have no concern for the safety of this country's citizenry, and do not care about preserving our identity as a nation, then you do not deserve to live here. You are not one of us.
It's got nothing to do with criticism.

I am all for the safety of the citizenry, however our saftey is not increased by attacking and occupying over nations.

 

[repiV]

I dont get it ...because I make a valid point all of the sudden I hate the military?

You tread a very thin line...

I dont recall calling them all stupid ..but you digress ..you still didnt answer the moral dilemna

Which one are you referring to? If it's the Nuremberg comment - what unlawful orders are you talking about? An RAF dude tried the "I'm not going back to Iraq because it's illegal" recently and got locked up as his orders were not found to be illegal.

 

[repiV]

I am all for the safety of the citizenry, however our saftey is not increased by attacking and occupying over nations.

Like I said, it has nothing to do with party politics. The military exists for defence first and foremost.
And yes, in some cases, attacking and occupying other nations does increase our safety.

 

[DaMaN]

The conscientious objector sounds like fun, but if the US actually instituted a draft I'd imagine they'd have gone more overboard with a Patriot Act 2.0! and I'd get arrested and put in jail for 50 years (dissappeared).

So, yea. Flee to Canada. (heh, already there) Or, better yet, Antartica! No chance of going to war there!

Like I said, it has nothing to do with party politics. The military exists for defence first and foremost.
And yes, in some cases, attacking and occupying other nations does increase our safety.

Wait, what? When has that EVER increased safety? I can only think of one possible case, and that was the Nazi regime. Attacking and occupying a country which the US has completely set-up for the task is NOT increasing safety.

[sarcasm]Sure, invading another country and slaughtering hundreds of thousands of CIVILIANS is really going to make us safe.[/sarcasm]

 

[CptStern]

You tread a very thin line...

how does my comment tread on either side? I'm relating what happened

Which one are you referring to? If it's the Nuremberg comment - what unlawful orders are you talking about? An RAF dude tried the "I'm not going back to Iraq because it's illegal" recently and got locked up as his orders were not found to be illegal.

.. the occupation legalized the invasion but he was essentially correct ..the initial invasion was a war crime, specifically an act of aggression. By participating in the occupation and destruction of iraq you are just as culpable as those that gave the order to invade