Dynamic lighting?

[Gordons_nan]

After playing Max Payne 2 recently, I've come to the conclusion that Half Life 2's lighting effects are a bit poor in comparison...especially when you set a zombie on fire or when you shoot your gun close to a wall....the surrounding area doesn't light up like it should and looks kind of unrealistic. Even Splinter Cell had better lighting IMO.

Any thoughts?

 

[TyrantII]

After playing Max Payne 2 recently, I've come to the conclusion that Half Life 2's lighting effects are a bit poor in comparison...especially when you set a zombie on fire or when you shoot your gun close to a wall....the surrounding area doesn't light up like it should and looks kind of unrealistic. Even Splinter Cell had better lighting IMO.

Any thoughts?

i noticed this too, especially with fire in dark areas. HL2 does support dynamic lighting also, so i have no idea why they didn't add it to weapons and fire from explosions

maybe like HL1 it's just too expensive for the system, but somehow i doubt it. Maybe they looked it over and can put it in, or even as a command later?

 

[Parrot of doom]

I wondered about this too, since you can see such effects in CS:S. Perhaps this will come in a later release?

 

[kingthebadger]

i like the lighting in cs:source when you shoot while in the smoke (nade)

 

[TyrantII]

i just saw a shot from ravenhold with fire from a barrel that light up the area and a zombie on fire doing the same thing... maybe a consol command?

if not it can be done by a small mod or added later

 

[thatdudekevin]

Couldnt dissagree more.
Heres some ss's i picked randomly with some lighting effects
Water ..2 sided
inside 1
inside2

and the flashlight effects are just amazing.

 

[BuBu]

that would own the fps

 

[Asuka]

Doom 3 has the best lighting so far. But trust me Source will catch up to the only gfx part its behind.

 

[Zorrander001]

Lighting and graphics in general is certainly not Source's strong point. It will most likely only be liscensed for RPG games.

 

[Spiffae]

Lighting and graphics in general is certainly not Source's strong point. It will most likely only be liscensed for RPG games.

lol!

yeah, right. You've played hl2, i assume? it's not an RPG, and it's possibly the best action FPS ever made. so why will people only make RPGs with it again?

I don't know about you, but i've seen some really beautiful lighting in hl2 so far. Better than any game i've ever played before.

 

[Gordons_nan]

Couldnt dissagree more.
Heres some ss's i picked randomly with some lighting effects
Water ..2 sided
inside 1
inside2

and the flashlight effects are just amazing.

With all due respect, I don't think you've read my post properly.

I'm certainly not bashing HL2's lighting in general. As you've demonstrated with your screenshots, it does display some amazing lighting effects. But, I'm specifically talking about lighting such as when a zombie is on fire, for instance - the area around him doesn't light up, even if it's pitch dark and it looks very unrealistic.

Sometimes if there's a lot of fire in an area, then the surrounding area does light up as it should, but this is only in scripted sequences, such as setting fire to the floor in Rav' with the gas.

On the whole, the fire effects inparticular aren't as good as say, MP2 or SC as examples.

I just hope they add it somewhere down the line because by today's standards, it's not very impressive.

 

[Gordons_nan]

I'd just like to add that strangely, if you fire your gun right up close to a NPC, they light up with the muzzle flash. But there's no muzzle flash when your simply standing in a dark area (like D3 for instance). :S

 

[EVIL]

Doom 3 has the best lighting so far. But trust me Source will catch up to the only gfx part its behind.

LOL, with all due respect, HL2 has demonstrated the best lighting ever, sure its baked in the map but it looks amazingly realistic.

if you squint your eyes at a screenshot from hl2 you can barely tell its a game, almost looks photorealistic, lighting wise. While if you do the same at a doom3 screenshot then it looks like your squinting at a game screenshot. Sure doom3 has fine lighting for its purpose, and you really can't compare the 2. doom3 goes for non realistic full fynamic lighting and shadowing to make things scary, while HL2 wants to make everything look and feel realistic, and the baked lighting and radiocity makes it reach that goal.

Sure its not state of the art, but its the best solution fot the game and atmosfere. but this is from an artist's point of view who knows 1 or 2 things about lighting and how to set up certain moods. So take it as you like, I prefer HL2's lighting over DOOM3's, thats all. :cheers:

 

[Gordons_nan]

LOL, with all due respect, HL2 has demonstrated the best lighting ever, sure its backed in but its amazingly realistic.

if you squint your eyes at a screenshot from hl2 you can barely tell its a game, almost looks photorealistic lighting wise, while if you do the same at a doom3 screenshot then you won't see a darn thing, sure doom3 has fine lighting for its purpose, and you really cant compare the 2. doom3 goes for non realistic full fynamic lighting and shadowing, while HL2 wants to make everything look and feel realistic. and the baked lighting and radeocity makes it reach that goal.

Sure its not state of the art, but its the best solution fot the game and atmosfere. but this is from an artist's point of view who knows 1 or 2 things about lighting and how to set p certain moods. so take it as you like. I prefer HL2's lighting over DOOM3's. thats all

I can see you're point... Doom3 is technically way more advanced in the lighting department, but the HL2 designers have made much better use of lighting in their game. From an artistic point of view, I don't think anyone can argue with the fact that HL2 is the best out there.

FarCry had some amazing lighting effects too. I used to love shooting the lights hanging from the ceiling and see if I could give myself an epileptic fit. :rolling:

 

[Xeinon]

The source engine dosen´t support dynamic lighting (like doom 3 or Splinter Cell). I thing it just uses shadow buffers like in UT2003-2004.

But dynamic shadows isn´t really a must in a game like HL2 IMO.

 

[mayfer]

there was a bink video where they were showing off with their lighting. it showed the rooves where we were first running awar from the combine. the game looked nothing like the bink. the bink video kicked major ass. but in the game it was nothing more than ordinary.

 

[jacen]

The source engine dosen´t support dynamic lighting (like doom 3 or Splinter Cell). I thing it just uses shadow buffers like in UT2003-2004.

shadows are a completly different thing than lighting
source DOES support dynamic lighting (u can see it in cs:s)

But dynamic shadows isn´t really a must in a game like HL2 IMO.

once again
SHADOWS AND LIGHTING ARE COMPLETLY DIFFERENT FEATURES IN A REALTIME 3d RENDER ENGINE.
and while dynamic shadowing and selfshadowing truly isnt required for a high end game, its nice to have them in.
only 2 of the major engines from 2004-2005 wont feature dynamic shadowing.
wow and source.
farcry, doom3, unreal engine 3 and everquest2 have this feature, and jeez i can tell u it adds SO MUCH diversity to the scene.

 

[jacen]

there was a bink video where they were showing off with their lighting. it showed the rooves where we were first running awar from the combine. the game looked nothing like the bink. the bink video kicked major ass. but in the game it was nothing more than ordinary.

you are referring to hdr lighting and specular lighting.
these things are in the source engine
they just arent enabled (though they will only work in dx9 mode, that y i think they took it out).

 

[DreamWraith]

maybe some of you do not realise this, but Source has all the capabilities of the Doom 3 engine and then some. Simply because they made a decision not to make every light in the game dynamic, doesnt mean they couldnt. They would rather have people able to PLAY the game at a decent framerate. unlike doom 3.

 

[The Dark Elf]

maybe some of you do not realise this, but Source has all the capabilities of the Doom 3 engine and then some. Simply because they made a decision not to make every light in the game dynamic, doesnt mean they couldnt. They would rather have people able to PLAY the game at a decent framerate. unlike doom 3.

The Source engine is not built for dynamic lighting/shadowing (beyond the basics anyway). It's a lot of work to make it optimised for it, involving access to the source code itself and rewriting just about everything to do with how things are lit.

Source and Doom3 are different engines that light their maps differently, while the Doom3 engine "could" do something like HL2's.. Source couldn't do something like Doom3, not without a big rewrite.

 

[jacen]

The Source engine is not built for dynamic lighting/shadowing. It's a lot of work to make it optimised for it, involving access to the source code itself and rewriting just about everything to do with how things are lit.

well you are very right on this one
source has no dynamic shadowing or even self shadowing at all
but:

Source and Doom3 are different engines that light their maps differently, while the Doom3 engine "could" do something like HL2's.. Source couldn't do something like Doom3, not without a big rewrite.

isnt fully true either.
doom3 currently doestn support 3dskys (but that isnt that much modding work .. compare q3a to jk:ja) and hdr lighting effects.
i am not sure if u could include hrd lighting in d3 if u are messing around with high instruction shaders alot ... we will see in q4 as this is a VERY important feature, especially in a dark setting like d3 and q4

 

[TyrantII]

yes, the world lighting in maps is NOT dynamic, but pre-rendered thru the compile tools. SO you don't get all the nice shadows, or even movement. This isn't saying it dosn't look good thou, it looks better then doomIII most of the time

and example is that HL2 maps cannot go from day to dusk, by lighting. a workaround such as lowering gamma mighyt work, but it cannot be changed via the engine lighting.

but HL2 does support individual dynamic lights for mappers to use. One examle is the flashlight, and a few individual hanging lights in some levels.

thats why fire should atleast have a dynamic light fixed to it, so it lights up the surrounding area like the flashlight, but with an amber color.

 

[jacen]

but HL2 does support individual dynamic lights for mappers to use. One examle is the flashlight, and a few individual hanging lights in some levels.

thats why fire should atleast have a dynamic light fixed to it, so it lights up the surrounding area like the flashlight, but with an amber color.

not exactly.
the light only is on or off.
thats not dynamic it doesnt move, does it?
even hl1 had that (it was also possible in q1) remember turning lights on/off?
same thing

 

[diluted]

Yeah, I agree, Doom 3 does have nicer lighting. But that's the only thing Doom3 has on HL2, other than that Doom3 sucks.

 

[jacen]

Yeah, I agree, Doom 3 does have nicer lighting. But that's the only thing Doom3 has on HL2, other than that Doom3 sucks.

d3 also has better shadowing
WAY better shadowing
+
much more usage of normal/specular maps (especially on the characters/enemys)

 

[ThrasherX9]

MMmmmmk. Here's an example of HL2's nice dynamic lighting:

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421450326/6.jpg

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421450326/5.jpg

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421450326/4.jpg

Now that's some nice lighting. I've seen it on various other stuff, including the muzzle flash of other NPCs and enemies. But why all fires don't have that lighting and you can't see your own muzzle flash is beyond me. Maybe there's something in the console you have to activate? I know I had to do that with D3 otherwise I had no dynamic lighting with my muzzle flash or with other enemies. Or perhaps it's because there's no single player model for Gordon? So he's not really carrying a gun? As for the fire, maybe a special lighting entity has to be placed for it before it can cast light?

 

[jacen]

your pics dont worl trasher

 

[Kazuki_Fuse]

I don't understand, the are around you lights up for me when I'm shooting shit in both HL2 and cs:s

 

[ThrasherX9]

your pics dont worl trasher

They work for me... try again.

 

[Gordons_nan]

I don't understand, the are around you lights up for me when I'm shooting shit in both HL2 and cs:s

Screenshots pls.

 

[Kazuki_Fuse]

Here you go. It's obvious in this screenshot that I took that the area lights up when you shoot. I take it that's what everyone means?

 

[jacen]

wtf?
this screenshot doesnt show dynamic lighting at all
only particle effects ...

 

[$niffy]

DreamWraith, did gabe actually say that? ****ing great

 

[jacen]

DreamWraith, did gabe actually say that? ****ing great

of course not
because its not true

 

[Kazuki_Fuse]

wtf?
this screenshot doesnt show dynamic lighting at all
only particle effects ...

fuk man I never said it did, did i? People were complaining that when you shoot your gun the area around you doesn't light up, and I was saying that it does on my computer. Or didn't you read through the rest fo the damn thread?

 

[Kazuki_Fuse]

Here's the same shot without the firing to prove it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/Kazuki_Fuse/HL2lighting_b.jpg

 

[Apos]

Let's see....

Source's lighting is amazing, especially on objects (just move around with a crate in the grav gun and see how it shades from the light). Stunning, and with the bright glares and other soft light effects, it really is teh winnar. But what source doesn't display is a direct lighting solution like those found in Theif3 and Doom3. Basically, static light shades moving objects in HL2, which is pretty much the bulk of "pretty lighting" effects that most games need. However, moving lights do not change shadows the way they do in Doom3. Your flashlight exposes bumpmaps, but it does not cast actual object shadows (then again, it didn't seem to do much of that in Doom3 for some reason).

Object shadows in HL2 are basically just very nice stencil shadows (with some bugs, like showing through solid objects) which for the most part do the job, though have the problem of not changing direction in reaction to lights in the game (you'll see these shadows sometimes pointing TOWARDS the only lightsource in a room, since their direction is apparently set globally for the map)

 

[ruin]

Interesting. I didn't notice while playing but I think you guys are right.

My screenshot clearly shows how the models in the game seem calculate light dynamically while the actually parts of the map don't. Maybe the game designers made the decision to increase fps?

And Apos, with the Doom3 flashlight not seeming to make shadows sometimes, I noticed that too and I think it's because the light is pointing directly away from you so the shadows that are cast are mostly going to be cast directly away from you also which means the things casting the shadows usually get in the way and you can't see them.

 

[Rico]

There's dynamic lighting which can be attached to MOVING objects so that it lights up the area as the object moves. The only thing HL2 doesn't have is dynamic SHADOWS.

Want proof? Make a map and attach the light_dynamic entity to a physical prop parent. Go ingame and move the object around the level, you will see that the light moves and changes as the object is moved.

I know this for a fact because I have several dynamic lights in my level.

 

[scarecrow1]

"not state of the art"!!!! sometimes i think that gamers today are a bit spoilt when it comes to games features. I remember the day when gamers cared more for the content and gameplay of a game, not the graphics as much as now. What i mean to say is: "ARE FRICKIN INSANE??? THE LIGHTING IN HL2 IS ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL..."Not as good as Doom 3's lighting"???? DOOM3 had no lighting!!!!it was frickin pitch black throughout the game, that annoyed me(it was cool and freaky yeah!!) i just cant beleive what im hearing.
Ill give you guys(the newer more spoilt generation of gamers!!) a little advice....forget what you dont like about it or would "like" to see in it, just enjoy and love the things that are GOOD and AWESOME about HL2, otherwise you will never be satisfied by any computer game, PERIOD!!! especially a FPS!!!!!!!!(enough exclamation marks???!!)