e3 2k3 scripted?

W

Wraith

Guest
i read on steampowered.com that the E3 footage was scripted, is this true? if so where is the evidence? have they fixed this or what? i want true AI man not scriped shits!

:devil:
 
yea it was scripted. it was done to show what the final game will be like. i guess when they made the video they wernt far enough into the ai development to use real ai

the final game will have no scripted ai, or so they say

apart from stuff that needs to happen like conversations and preset events
 
do you really think the AI will live up to those scripted events?
 
to me, this completely nullifies everything that made me fall in love with this game. sure the graphics are nice and all, but now. i really feel.


alienated.

i sure hope this game isnt shite
 
You feel "alienated?" The only thing you're alienated from is the ability to use words in context.
 
personally i hope it IS scripted. just leaving it to AI always leads to problems, at least with scripting somebody has used thier imagination.
 
HL2 will have scripted scenes , though , you can interfere their progress.

The AI in hl2 is very good , so it's safe to say that most of the stuff won't be scripted but I assume they will use SS in some points.
 
The street fight (with barney) was probably using real AI (don't ask why :p) but the combine knocking off the door was probably scripted. and so was the "oh, do be carefull" thing when gordon touched the monitor in the lab.
I think the strider wasn't scripted, but the hydra was.
 
If it makes you feel better, most of the stuff in the 2004 videos was unscripted.

In any case, AI isn't going to make or break the game for me.
 
It was scripted to show off a unique situation they wanted to show the audience.

The AI will react on hints given through the engine. (Of course they will have to have access to the specific hints, a hint saying that the target is right over there, won't be accessed unless he can actually see the target).
 
Well it was only to show off best case scenarios with the AI so you get the "wow" feeling.

In the leak(i have heard) that the map editing tools actually had all the equipment to setup an unscripted sequence like that.
 
technically Half-Life2 won't be using very many scripts at all. (just the kind to move the story along, like the scene where teh strider blasts into kleiners lab)

however the AI will have a vast amount of "hints" available to them, informing them what is breakable, what isnt, available cover.

for example, in the e3 2k3 video when the strider blows apart the walk-bridge that he can't get past it was an 'unscripted event'. the strider wanted to get to the tasty humans, but the bridge was blocking him. now, the strider was "expected" by valve to simply duck underneath the bridge and continue attacking but the strider "decided" to try and blow away the obstacle in its path (bridge), and after finding its path still blocked it came to the conclusion to duck underneath it.

just an example ^^
 
Wraith said:
i read on steampowered.com that the E3 footage was scripted, is this true? if so where is the evidence? have they fixed this or what? i want true AI man not scriped shits!

:devil:
Click to expand...

omg noob

best games are scripted !

HL1 is the best games ever....because.....its scripted

Doom3 100% scripted
 
I'd say parts of E3 2003 were scripted for the simple reason that they wanted the watchers to see specific occurances. They wanted to control what the demo showed, and they might not have gotten what they wanted if they'd allowed the AI to proceed semi-randomly...
 
I honestly thought we saw the last of this topic. I thought it died a horrible death a long time ago. :x

Anyways, scripting or not, it doesn't matter. I only care about the end result - how fun the game is. Who honestly cares about scripting or dynamic AI if both can get the job done.
 
Personally I think that the whole trailers we see are scripted. Every single part of them, except for the enemies reacting in combat situations. This means that I think (I'm 95% sure) that these things are scripted:
- strider shooting the bridge, no doubt
- strider ducking under the bridge, scripted and 'hinted'
- the people running from said strider shouting STRIDER!!, this is scripted without any doubt
- combine soldier appearing in front of hydra and getting stung, no doubt here
- combine soldiers kicking in the door on traptown, this is scripted but you could call it 'hinted' since it will happen multiple times
- combine pushing the person over in the trainstation, no doubt here
- big antlion appearing at the end of bugbait and kicking over those three guys, then running at Gordon, scripted no doubt
- strider shooting at the pillar of that big building in one of the videos, where you hear the high pitched noise, since it explodes two times in the same way, same place and same time

It's not bad though, it's just troublesome that people seem to have such high hopes for HL2 that they don't think anything will be scripted. As one writer earlier said in this thread, you need scripting for a compelling story and environment. You can't put some soldiers in a map, add a strider and have it all work out naturally.

Of course it means you'll see the same things over and over each time you play it, but it'll be really fun the first time!

Sorry for my bad english but it's not my native language :)
 
According to Valve, Source doesn't even have a scripting language. Half-Life 2 uses "hints" and "triggers", but it's not scripted.

For instance, at the end of Bugbait, the ant lion queen attacked the combine first because the AI is programmed to prioritize the most dangerous threats, which in this case were the two combine soldiers (two soldiers pose a greater threat than a single man, i.e. Gordan). You could call it "scripting" since it's canned behavior for all intents and purposes, but it's not scripting the way it is traditionally understood.
 
if valve says there aren't too many scriped events i'm gonna be pissed.
not because of the lack of scriped events but because the most of us can TELL what is scripted and what isn't.

Striders appearing on the strider video. They come once you reach a certain spot to trigger them, i'm pretty sure if you went afk, the striders wouldn't simply appear while you were still on that elevator thingy.

The combine guard getting impaled by the tentacle thingy. That's scriped.
 
hasan said:
The street fight (with barney) was probably using real AI (don't ask why :p) but the combine knocking off the door was probably scripted. and so was the "oh, do be carefull" thing when gordon touched the monitor in the lab.
I think the strider wasn't scripted, but the hydra was.
Click to expand...

I believe the street fight was real AI, and I do believe the Combine breaking the door down was as well. Think about it, if they could script it in, why can't they put that action in the AI? Oh, and the, "Oh, do be careful," line was not scripted. I'm pretty sure that's just one of the fun things you could do. Like, if you ran away to a different part of a room while they were talking, I'd expect Alyx and Kliener to get mad, not just continue their convo like nothing happened in every other game.
 
Does it really matter if it's scripted or not?

All of HL1 was scripted. So what?


- strider shooting the bridge, no doubt
- strider ducking under the bridge, scripted and 'hinted'
- the people running from said strider shouting STRIDER!!, this is scripted without any doubt
- combine soldier appearing in front of hydra and getting stung, no doubt here
- combine soldiers kicking in the door on traptown, this is scripted but you could call it 'hinted' since it will happen multiple times
- combine pushing the person over in the trainstation, no doubt here
- big antlion appearing at the end of bugbait and kicking over those three guys, then running at Gordon, scripted no doubt
- strider shooting at the pillar of that big building in one of the videos, where you hear the high pitched noise, since it explodes two times in the same way, same place and same time
Click to expand...

Gabe said the strider shooting the bridge was hinted, not scripted, as was the strider crouching under it. The antlion appearing was scripted, however the way it killed the combine was not.
 
I think people ought to learn what a scripted sequence is before talking about it.

Half-Life 2 follows the same route as its predecessor. There will be sequences that are 100% scripted meaning Valve has gone in and hand crafted a very specific event to happen when a certain trigger is reached. This could be a story sequence. For example, you as Gordon walk into a room. When you cross the doorway an invisible trigger is flipped signaling the beginning of a scripted sequence. You loose control of movement first. After that is done, the script continues moving forward with the g-man model moving out from his place in the shadows. Once he reaches a certain point that particular action is finished, the script continues, and he moves on to dialog. In the meantime other things could be going on in the environment. It's all timed carefully, and created by Valve. These sequences follow an internal “script” set in place by the level designer. It has nothing to do with a scripting language or anything like that. You will see these in Half-Life 2 because there is simply no other way to tell a compelling story without them.

The other sorts of "scripted sequences" occur to add a bit of flavor to the game. The hydra impaling the combine soldier for example was a scripted sequence. Gordon set off a trigger when he dropped down from the tunnel, which sent Alyx into a speech and started a timer. When enough time had passed the combine soldier began his descent, and started to speak, which in turn set off the hydra and so on. You will see these in Half-Life 2 because you don't want to leave the little touches to chance. They are part of what set the mood.

The AI in Half-Life 2 is NOT scripted. They make use of in level hints placed by designers, and are capable of making decisions on their own based upon routines in their code. Valve is a very intelligent company, and they know that the purpose of the AI is not to kick the players ass. It's their to provide just enough challenge to have the player come out of a fight gasping for breath, in desperate need of health, but still alive. They also know how important it is to have dynamic events in a scene. So for example, if a combine soldier knows you're behind a crate and that he can't get you with his gun, he'll do everything in his power to keep you on edge nonetheless. If he spots paint cans or buckets sitting atop the crate he'll take shots at those because he knows they will react violently to his fire and keep you, the player, on edge. In the E3 2003 traptown video when the dumpster fell onto the combine soldiers, they were reacting to hints placed by level designers which said "If the player blows out the supports to that garbage bin it might be cool if you put yourself underneath it and got crushed". It's all about making you, the player, feel empowered. They have worked hard to make sure every fire-fight has the ability to be a full blown adrenaline rush.

Scripted Sequences are NOT bad things. They are good things. In Half-Life 2 they will 1) Provide you with all the cool storyline bits and 2) Provide you with a variety of nice little scenes to set the mood. The Artificial Intelligence is not "scripted". An NPC looks to it's code, and perhaps to level hints, which tell it what to do for any given situation.
 
In the 2004 e3 vid, I think part of why they had the strider video twice was to show that it wasn't the same and therefore, not scripted.
In one the strider impales a guy, another time he doesn't,
The order of guys killed is different. etc.
 
Obviously, the whole game cannot be 0% or 100% scripted, it's impossible.

If there was 0% scripting, there'd be no cool set-pieces, no story events happening, for example.

If it was 100% scripted, the game would be daft. Every single NPC would do *exactly* the same thing every time you play. It probably would even barely react to your presence.

Valve are going somewhere in between. Sure, there are scripted events, like the dialogue with Eli and Mossman. But at the same time, the scripted dialogue can be influenced by the player, and the AI can take decisions based on the world, especially using hints.

Like, if there's a door preventing the AI from getting to a player, kick it down. If the AI can hurt you by launching something heavy at you, it can do that too. The resistance run away from Striders, and shout when they see or hear a new one coming. No doubt the other resistance AIs switch into a state of awareness if they hear such a warning.

Now, this hinting system may sound a bit like scripting, but it's really not. The basic way to do AI is to work out what goal is most important at the current time, then work out how to acheive that goal. There has to be code driving all this eventually, it's still AI, not I.
 
FoB_Ed said:
Does it really matter if it's scripted or not?

All of HL1 was scripted. So what?
Click to expand...

Hl1 is no longer a game on par with those we have today, anybody saying otherwise is a blatant fanboy in every sence of the word.


you might as well just ask..

"Does it realy matter if its a girl?

Your still gonna be humping it. So what?"
 
Wraith said:
i sure hope this game isnt shite
Click to expand...

After all the time we givin to this game, that would be a huge disappointment to all fans/non fans.

100% sure it will be ground breaking game. ;)
 
Deltablast, thats a broken link :(

and, well, looks like my previous statement is pretty much confirmed... albiet with a little clarification.


:D
 
Malfunction said:
I believe the street fight was real AI, and I do believe the Combine breaking the door down was as well. Think about it, if they could script it in, why can't they put that action in the AI? Oh, and the, "Oh, do be careful," line was not scripted. I'm pretty sure that's just one of the fun things you could do. Like, if you ran away to a different part of a room while they were talking, I'd expect Alyx and Kliener to get mad, not just continue their convo like nothing happened in every other game.
Click to expand...
uuum .. dude, we played the leak.
althu I admit the way the soldiers were kicking the door could have been modified by the hacker to make the AI look stupid.
what happens is, once oyu close the door and place the table infront of it, the door shakes and you hear a sound "FREEMAN!" .. this always happens whether there are combines or not. but the sound is not in the E3 movie, so it could just be hacked.

strider shooting the bridge, no doubt
Click to expand...
on the contrary, there is no doubt it was pure AI.

guys, you don't know how AI works? AI is not intellegent, it's pretty dumb. It's called AI because it gives you a false impression that the enemies are smart, but infact they are very stupid.
and to add to the stupidity, the striders are not supposed to be intellegent (I think .. ), so if you shoot it, it'll shoot back, like animals (it doesn't make tactics)
The AI can only do what it's programmed to do. If you are hiding behind a pillar, it will shoot the pillar and shoot you.

so, you are hiding in the front of the building behind the pillars, it's gonna shoot you.

As for the way it brakes, this is anengine limitation.

THE WORLD IS NOT DESTRUCTABLE!!

All objects in the game get broken the same way no matter how many times you breake them. that's all.
 
qckbeam, that was an excellent post. I hope it cleared things up for a lot of people, I couldn't have said it better myself.
 
qckbeam said:
When you cross the doorway an invisible trigger is flipped signaling the beginning of a scripted sequence. You loose control of movement first. After that is done, the script continues moving forward with the g-man model moving out from his place in the shadows.
Click to expand...

You will never lose control of movement in HL2. This is one of the things which make HL and HL2 so good.
 
qckbeam said:
I think people ought to learn what a scripted sequence is before talking about it.

Half-Life 2 follows the same route as its predecessor. There will be sequences that are 100% scripted meaning Valve has gone in and hand crafted a very specific event to happen when a certain trigger is reached. This could be a story sequence. For example, you as Gordon walk into a room. When you cross the doorway an invisible trigger is flipped signaling the beginning of a scripted sequence. You loose control of movement first. After that is done, the script continues moving forward with the g-man model moving out from his place in the shadows. Once he reaches a certain point that particular action is finished, the script continues, and he moves on to dialog. In the meantime other things could be going on in the environment. It's all timed carefully, and created by Valve. These sequences follow an internal “script” set in place by the level designer. It has nothing to do with a scripting language or anything like that. You will see these in Half-Life 2 because there is simply no other way to tell a compelling story without them.

The other sorts of "scripted sequences" occur to add a bit of flavor to the game. The hydra impaling the combine soldier for example was a scripted sequence. Gordon set off a trigger when he dropped down from the tunnel, which sent Alyx into a speech and started a timer. When enough time had passed the combine soldier began his descent, and started to speak, which in turn set off the hydra and so on. You will see these in Half-Life 2 because you don't want to leave the little touches to chance. They are part of what set the mood.

The AI in Half-Life 2 is NOT scripted. They make use of in level hints placed by designers, and are capable of making decisions on their own based upon routines in their code. Valve is a very intelligent company, and they know that the purpose of the AI is not to kick the players ass. It's their to provide just enough challenge to have the player come out of a fight gasping for breath, in desperate need of health, but still alive. They also know how important it is to have dynamic events in a scene. So for example, if a combine soldier knows you're behind a crate and that he can't get you with his gun, he'll do everything in his power to keep you on edge nonetheless. If he spots paint cans or buckets sitting atop the crate he'll take shots at those because he knows they will react violently to his fire and keep you, the player, on edge. In the E3 2003 traptown video when the dumpster fell onto the combine soldiers, they were reacting to hints placed by level designers which said "If the player blows out the supports to that garbage bin it might be cool if you put yourself underneath it and got crushed". It's all about making you, the player, feel empowered. They have worked hard to make sure every fire-fight has the ability to be a full blown adrenaline rush.

Scripted Sequences are NOT bad things. They are good things. In Half-Life 2 they will 1) Provide you with all the cool storyline bits and 2) Provide you with a variety of nice little scenes to set the mood. The Artificial Intelligence is not "scripted". An NPC looks to it's code, and perhaps to level hints, which tell it what to do for any given situation.
Click to expand...

this was what i was trying to say, it was just to much typey typey for me :)
 
Scripted sequences ARE essential. No game can have a storyline without scripted scenes!

If no scripted scenes existed, then alyx wouldn`t give you a weapon and told you to run when she saw those "scanners" coming in Dr. Kleiners lab.

in fact, only gabe is scripted. he says all the time "this is not supported, but it could be easily modded in"
 
The word "scripted" is not defined well enough in this aspect.

You could say it's scripted like a tv show is scripted.
They have main points they have to get accross, but there's room for improvising.
 
Wraith said:
i read on steampowered.com that the E3 footage was scripted, is this true? if so where is the evidence? have they fixed this or what? i want true AI man not scriped shits!

:devil:
Click to expand...

The e32k3 was filmed in a joint-venture of the Malaysian puppeteers who won the olympics in Sydney in 2000. These extremely talented and hard working people made the whole setting puppets with built-in ragdoll physics, which took those last three years to film what you've seen in e32k3 vid. Oh, and the G-man from e32k3 was made from clay filmed with stop-motion technique, but the lip-synched voice of the G-man you hear in the vid was coming from a ventriloquist in a front row of the VALVe booth on E3. That's why he's talking so weird. :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :farmer:

BTW qckbeam: that post should go sticky somewhere, to show people what's scripting a game all about.
 
th1nk said:
You will never lose control of movement in HL2. This is one of the things which make HL and HL2 so good.
Click to expand...

Sure you will. There are never any moments where the camera actually pulls out of your body, but I can recall two moments in Half-Life that took movement away from the player. The one soldiers, only to wake up as they were dragging you along and overhear part of their conversation. The other was at the end with the G-Man. I may be mixing this up with Opposing Force, but I don't believe you were able to move while he spoke to you on the tram. They never break immersion by pulling the camera out of your body, but they have taken away movement and control for brief periods. I know for a fact that Half-Life 2 will employ the same tactics from time to time.
 
You could move about on the train at the end but you're right about the soldier bit.
 
The door kick in was scripted yes I know this from people who have played the leak.
 
I only call scripted sequences when for example the hydra get eats the soldier and stuff, I like that, but I still want some control over them. The rest is just part of the game and story.

How-ever , to much scrypted get boring, like Call of Duty, great game, but wayyy to much scrypted, it sometimes looked like a tram ride.
 
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