Email from Gabe. Re: Pay 2 Play

[Logic]

I'm glad this has been cleared up. I'm not really comfortable paying a monthly fee myself, but then I'm not really pro-steam either. Both are interesting initiatives, but just out of personal preference, I'll be sticking to the good old "buy it once" from the store method of getting my games

I'm sure if I had a faster internet connection though (broadband's so expensive here in Australia) I'd be advocating steam a bit more, but I still prefer to have a physical box\manual\cd\dvd.

As long as there's a version available in the store, which there appears to be, that has everything (HL2 sp, mp, mod capability) I'll be happy :cheese:

 

[Kamakiri]

Thankyou Gabe for confirming the email. But guys just remember I'm going to be around for a while in the community and just remember I'm a Valve fan boy and basically I wouldn't lie about something as big as this.

Gabe keep up the good work and get this baby to gold. We are all dieing here.

 

[mchammer75040]

I emailed gabe just now (3:30 am central time) about the email and he replyed within 10 minutes:

Ok a guy at the halflife2.net forums posted this email sayin its from you
but alot of people are kinda skeptic for various reasons heres the email
could you tell us if this is legit or not?


gabe: that's me

And if you question that your paranoied.

 

[Kamakiri]

Originally posted by mchammer75040
I emailed gabe just now (3:30 am central time) about the email and he replyed within 10 minutes:

Ok a guy at the halflife2.net forums posted this email sayin its from you
but alot of people are kinda skeptic for various reasons heres the email
could you tell us if this is legit or not?


gabe: that's me

And if you question that your paranoied.

Dood the man himself just posted ^^

 

[papa jake]

Okay everyone! Make way for the noob!


Allright. Will someone explain to me what all this means. Tell it to me like I'm a three fingered retard so I understand, because I am completely confused. What on earth is a SKU? If I spend fifty bones at wal-mart (I'm from a small town) will I get a full version of HL2 complete with online compatibility?
I'm confused.
Thank you.

 

[papa jake]

BTW, I was behind my boy Kamakiri from the get go.:thumbs:

 

[Kamakiri]

Yes Papa you were mate you were

Thanks. hehehe.

 

[Spyre]

Again, sorry Kamakiri for doubting your email. I appreciate you giving us this info, and I feel like I over-reacted. Sorry about that, I hope you and Gabe don't hold it against me

My concern for VALVe is how to label the software packages. I'm an intelligent guy, and I've never had a problem figuring out what patches to use with what versions. I do, however, have several friends who aren't as net/'puter savvy as we are.

2 friends of mine bought retail versions of HL1 and then tried to get the free-mod version of CS working. After about a week, they gave up, then bought the retail version of CS. Personally, I thought, "Good! Finally they can play the game they want without the hassle of downloading mod files and patches! (or having me to walk them through upgrading over the phone)" This was a relief to me, since I'm the guy who's always called over to fix their computer problems

However, they still had problems. They *still* couldn't figure out which patch to install for what version. Even I had to take extra time and care to make sure it was downloading the right patch for the right version. Eventually their systems were so mucked up with repeated installs (their fault, not mine, hehehe) that we decided to delete everything and start all over using the retail version of CS.

With Steam I am SURE the patch problems will be resolved and much more stream-lined. I'm looking forward to such a ambitious project making our lives easier. I am, however, concerned about product labeling and such.

To make things clear, are we going to have a box with "multiplayer included" and another box with "single player only" on them? I'd hate to be stuck telling my friends they spent money on the wrong version. Is there going to be a full press release about these different distribution models when they are finalized?

No matter what happens, I'm confident I'll be happy with the product I purchase!

 

[Feath]

I doubt I was the only one confused by this:

SKU
stock-keeping unit

This is very interesting. I guess it also explains what the Valve Premier Pack is.

 

[Gunner]

"Collector's edition with lots of cool bonus stuff for people who like cool bonus stuff"...

What?

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by )[eVo]( Para
"Collector's edition with lots of cool bonus stuff for people who like cool bonus stuff"...

What?

That's the silver box.

I like cool bonus stuff.

 

[anarchy]

This is so lame, we have to pay for tf2 and cs2 now??

GAY!

I will never pay a subscription fee, ever. Way to take advantage of the community valve, I feel another big corporate fist entering my ass. I guess we should all bend over and take it though right? Wrong. Screw that, mods should be free, thats the whole point. With a subscription model I can see valves community withering like a dead flower.

But thats just how I see it. Flame on...

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Who ever said that TF2 was going to be free? Every bit of information about TF2 says that it was going to be a standalone product.

Also, CS2 is Valve-owned. I doubt they're going to shoot themselves in the foot by selling it as a full-price game, but a small $5-$10 charge? The majority will pay that because it's relatively cheap.

Developers have to make money too, you know. If you don't like the idea, don't buy it. You'll be a small, silent minority though.

 

[Tamer17]

dood, TF2 is a game , not a mod . from the start TF2 was ment to be shipped as a game, that you need to buy. Valve never said TF2 is a mod.

and CS2 will probally be a game on it's own too , CS was released as a regular store game too .

 

[mchammer75040]

Ok whoever said dude he just posted about it himself i know i just wanted to post that as well

 

[anarchy]

It was lame for valve to cash in on CS and charge idiots for a free mod, and it would be lame to pay 10 bucks a month hoping they will release decent mods every month.

I know that me and all my friends I lan with will never pay a subscription fee for any game, period.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by anarchy
It was lame for valve to cash in on CS and charge idiots for a free mod, and it would be lame to pay 10 bucks a month hoping they will release decent mods every month.

I know that me and all my friends I lan with will never pay a subscription fee for any game, period.

Counter Strike Retail was stand alone. You only needed to buy it if you didn't have Half Life. That was the point of it.

You don't HAVE to pay the subscription fee. Buy the Multiplayer version of Half Life 2. No subscription fee, and Mods run on it.

EDIT: If Counterstrike 2 is a mod you'll be able to play it. If it's a stand alone game then you'll have to pay for it seperately.

Remember, if you look at it in a certain way, Opposing Force is a Mod.

 

[TAZ]

The only way I would pay 10 bucks a month for a game like this is if the Multiplayer aspect was awesome and they released a few new levels every month to paid subscibers and those who bought retail would have to wait for an expansion pack to play them. But to pay 15 bucks a month (I am Canadian) for playing the same game that is offered at retail would be pointless if nothing new was released within 5 months of it going retail. The mods they speak of would be great as standalone games, but what would that leave for multiplay in the retail version then? DeathMatch? Ricochette 2? Both are boring and dull to play after about a half hour. If Half Life2 doesn't come out with decent MP from retail then buying it in the stores seems only good for those interested in SP, and if we have to wait 5 months for a decent MP mod for HL2 then expect Valve to make a fortune off retail and then Steam versions of the game. A great strategy on their part, but as it again proves, all big corporations are just plain greedy.

 

[anarchy]

Originally posted by Feath
Counter Strike Retail was stand alone. You only needed to buy it if you didn't have Half Life. That was the point of it.

You don't HAVE to pay the subscription fee. Buy the Multiplayer version of Half Life 2. No subscription fee, and Mods run on it.

Its not that simple, from what I understand, select mods will be free (the ones that suck and arent popular), then you can pay for the good mods (like cs2, tf2, or any other ones that become popular that they can $$$ cash in on) by subscription or again in the store. Do I understand this correctly or did I miss something?

 

[Feath]

Don't be so cynical.

Valve are expecting you to get value for money for your $9.95 a month. And anyway, if you don't like the multiplayer and you've finished the single player game, you can cancel it.

So instead of spending $50, you spend $20 and got the same amount of enjoyment.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by anarchy
Its not that simple, from what I understand, select mods will be free (the ones that suck and arent popular), then you can pay for the good mods (like cs2, tf2, or any other ones that become popular that they can $$$ cash in on) by subscription or again in the store. Do I understand this correctly or did I miss something?

TEAM FORTRESS 2 IS NOT A MOD.

This is like complaining that you have to pay for Expansion packs. It's not a big deal.

Third Party mods (like Natural Selection) will either be free or not, it's up to Mod Makers, not Valve. This could be free or not.

Stand alone products like Team Fortress 2, you'll have to pay for, or you get them if you subscribe, without paying any more a month.

Same with developer made expansion packs, you'd either have to buy them, or you'd get them free with the subscription.

You won't get stand alone products or Expansion packs for free because you never had down ever before.

 

[anarchy]

Originally posted by Feath
Don't be so cynical.

Valve are expecting you to get value for money for your $9.95 a month. And anyway, if you don't like the multiplayer and you've finished the single player game, you can cancel it.

So instead of spending $50, you spend $20 and got the same amount of enjoyment.

Once you cancel your subscription you propably wont have a valid key to play that 20 bucks worth of games, so I doubt the 20 dollar deal you suggested would be worth it in the long run... unless you only like to play for 2 months.

Im sorry if it sounds cynical, I was just trying to understand the new "pricing plan".

Sounds like a ripoff to me is all.

 

[anarchy]

Originally posted by Feath
TEAM FORTRESS 2 IS NOT A MOD.

This is like complaining that you have to pay for Expansion packs. It's not a big deal.

Third Party mods (like Natural Selection) will either be free or not, it's up to Mod Makers, not Valve. This could be free or not.

Stand alone products like Team Fortress 2, you'll have to pay for, or you get them if you subscribe, without paying any more a month.

Same with developer made expansion packs, you'd either have to buy them, or you'd get them free with the subscription.

You won't get stand alone products or Expansion packs for free because you never had down ever before.

TFC was a free mod. TF2 is a mod, the reason its called a stand alone product is because they decided to charge for it.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by anarchy
TFC was a free mod. TF2 is a mod, the reason its called a stand alone product is because they decided to charge for it.

No, stand alone means that it runs on it's own. You won't need Half Life 2 to play it.

Team Fortress 2 has always been stand alone. It's being developed seperately. In the same way Half Life wasn't a mod for Quake, Team Fortress 2 won't be a Mod for Half Life 2.

You don't appear to understand this.

 

[DizConnected]

One question I have. If someone buys the single player only version can they in the future if they decide add the multi-player aspect by purchasing it via Steam?

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by DizConnected
One question I have. If someone buys the single player only version can they in the future if they decide add the multi-player aspect by purchasing it via Steam?

You'd probably have to pay the subscription but who knows, maybe a lot of people will want multiplayer later and Valve may add something.

 

[Dagobert]

plus multiplayer SKU that runs MODs

I'm telling you right now. HL2 will not ship with multiplayer. You'll need to download it after the SP is released.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by anarchy
Once you cancel your subscription you propably wont have a valid key to play that 20 bucks worth of games, so I doubt the 20 dollar deal you suggested would be worth it in the long run... unless you only like to play for 2 months.

Im sorry if it sounds cynical, I was just trying to understand the new "pricing plan".

Sounds like a ripoff to me is all.

You don't have to pay the $10 a month if you don't want to.

If you buy the game in a shop, you don't pay the subscription.

If you pay the subscription, you don't have to buy the game in the shop.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by Dagobert
I'm telling you right now. HL2 will not ship with multiplayer. You'll need to download it after the SP is released.

Thank you for clearing that up Mr Make-Stuff-Up.

 

[anarchy]

Originally posted by Feath
No, stand alone means that it runs on it's own. You won't need Half Life 2 to play it.

Team Fortress 2 has always been stand alone. It's being developed seperately. In the same way Half Life wasn't a mod for Quake, Team Fortress 2 won't be a Mod for Half Life 2.

You don't appear to understand this.

What I dont understand is why valve expects me to pay for TF2 when TFC was free. TFC was a mod, but some how TF2 is not a mod, its a seperate game? Umm..okay. I also dont understand why I would be expected to pay for CS2 when CS was free. My conculsion is that these MOD'S got popular and valve wants to cash in on them.

 

[MoJo|Night]

Dagobert did you not read the message from gabe? He said specifically that of the three release packs, two of them will include the multiplayer.

 

[MoJo|Night]

Anarchy. TF2 is a new game, it's a sequel to Team Fotress. It has nothing at all to do with TFC which was an entirely different game. Even if it was do vavle not have a right to charge for software they have spent years making? Or should they give everything away free just because somone did once before?

 

[Logic]

As with any product that has different licences, I'm sure there will be a way to upgrade from one version to another without having to re-purchase.

This whole thing is an interesting move on Valve's part. It will be very interesting to see how successful the whole steam and pay to play thing pans out.. it could represent the future of where the industry is headed.

On the other hand, I don't see subscriptions becoming immensly popular. Think about it - if you subscribe to 4 or 5 of your favourite game companies, you're essentially paying enough to buy a whole game every month, which you certainly wouldn't get, considering development time etc.

I guess it depends on what kind of gamer you are. Many avid gamers, and technically minded people (such as mod developers or other industry people) probably prefer to have control over where their money is going, kind of like the anti-steam arguments of prefering to have complete control over what's being downloaded, when, and where from.

On the other hand, steam and subscriptions may seem, to some people (particularly those financially comfortable enough to not mind paying a bit for convenience) steam and subscriptions may appeal to them in that it takes all the effort out of purchasing and acquiring games. They simply turn on their computer, and they have access to every valve product, old and new.

It will be very interesting to see how gamers react, and which type of gamer makes up the majority. A very bold move on valve's behalf, and potentially a very smart and lucrative one. In the mean time though, no subscription for me :cheese:

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

TF2 was always a commercial product. Valve gave you TFC for free to keep you going until TF2 was ready. However, rather than that giving you a nice warm glow inside, you feel that Valve somehow owe you TF2 for free.

Secondly, there has been no confirmation whatsoever that CS2 is going to cost anything. It's not unreasonable to expect them to charge for it though. As several people have pointed out to you already, CS was ultimately a commercial product. Valve bought it. Now they're paying Gooseman to work on CS2 for them. Why shouldn't they expect some of that investment back?

Here's the bottom line just so you understand it:

Valve owe you nothing

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by anarchy
What I dont understand is why valve expects me to pay for TF2 when TFC was free. TFC was a mod, but some how TF2 is not a mod, its a seperate game? Umm..okay. I also dont understand why I would be expected to pay for CS2 when CS was free. My conculsion is that these MOD'S got popular and valve wants to cash in on them.

TFC came out in order to entertain people until TF2 came out. Team Fortress Classic was announced after Team Fortress 2 was announced.

Team Fortress 2 was, at one point, going to be a mod but Valve decided to make it a stand alone game because they could do more with it by making a new engine. Team Fortress Classic was released so people still had something to play on.

Valve didn't see Team Fortress Classic get popular and then decide to do Team Fortress 2.

Gabe didn't mention anything about CounterStrike 2. It may be a free mod for Half Life 2, it may not.

Can we remember that Valve supports the mod community, and Half Life 2 will probably bring in a new wave of mods, which will be free (because Valve can't really charge for them if they didn't make them).

 

[MoJo|Night]

I can see why they've done the subscription system and as logic says it will be interesting to see what happens. They do have the fall back option of just shipping the normal boxed version if necassary if steam or the licences don't work out. My only worry is that releasing a game as big as half life 2 in a completely new way may be a way of shooting themselves in the foot. From the point of view of not wanting things to end up being a nightmare for people who purchase the game I would think that maybe starting the license system with tf2 or something at a later date might have made more sense.

Look at SWG, the game was fine on release day but the registration and payment system couldn't handle the strain and thousands of gamers were left unable to play the game they had waited years for. Combine this with the steam beta cs1.6 release day catastrophe and I can see a potential for things to go badly wrong. I'm not saying they will but there is a potential for it to happen.

 

[Chicky]

wow is all i have to say

 

[Dagobert]

The second is our traditional single-player plus multiplayer SKU that runs MODs

It runs MODs. That you have to download to have multiplayer.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by Dagobert
It runs MODs. That you have to download to have multiplayer.

Half Life 1 ran mods as well. Did you have to download the multiplayer version then?

 

[anarchy]

Originally posted by PiMuRho
Secondly, there has been no confirmation whatsoever that CS2 is going to cost anything. It's not unreasonable to expect them to charge for it though. As several people have pointed out to you already, CS was ultimately a commercial product. Valve bought it. Now they're paying Gooseman to work on CS2 for them. Why shouldn't they expect some of that investment back?

[/B]

I think its unreasonable to chage for it. And we both know CS was a huge success and THEN valve bought it...$$$
Whats to stop them from doing it to all the other good mods, that is my concern.