Email from Gabe. Re: Pay 2 Play

[spitcodfry]

Has CS 2 actually been confirmed? I've heard Gabe mention it won't ship with HL 2, but has it been in development all this time? It seems that if thats the case then it'll be pretty silly to release Condition Zero (which I'm sure is a great game in its own right), because if one has to choose between a game based on the same graphics technology that went into normal CS, and a Source engine-powered one, well, its not really that hard, now is it?

 

[Be-vishead]

Wow this thread has spread across the internet very fastly.

 

[spitcodfry]

Originally posted by Logic
I wish! If they want to offer me a job though, I'm all for it! lol

I just wanted to clear things up. There seems to be a lot of unneccissary negative reaction and misunderstanding of how valve are releasing HL2, especially from people who won't be affected negatively at all.

I couldn't agree with you more, and I'm sure the bulk of what you stated is true. It pisses me off that all these supposed HL fanboys are prepared to rip Valve a new a$$hole if they change one little thing about how they distribute.

 

[Mr Neutron]

Let me stick on my professor hat:

Steam is a free tcp/ip program from Valve aquired from the internet or installed when you buy one of their (forthcoming) games. Its functions are: 1) managing your user rights to Valve programs, such as key authentication (replacing Sierra's WON in this regard); 2) multiplayer server browsing (will this exclude 3rd-party programs e.g. Gamespy?); 3) distributing Valve games and content. This last seems to be confusing people.

First its important to be clear about Valve products that are or aren't MOD platforms. While HL is a MOD platform, stand alone retail CS is not [correct me if I'm wrong about this]. HL2 will be a new MOD platform, largely an extension in design from HL, but not interoperable. Concerning TF2, we do not know yet whether it will be its own platform seperate from HL2 or one interoperable with it (meaning, will it be possible to make a MOD that runs on both as long as it doesn't depend on code or content unique to either?).

Second, we must distinguish between Valve MODs and non-Valve MODs where it's important to remember that only Valve MODs can be stand-alone products. Also, 'Valve MODs' pottentially aren't really MODs but in-house engine-reutilizations (though most examples originated out-of-house). In fact, all our current example Valve MODs (CS, DOD, and TFC) originated as non-Valve MODs; the 'upgrade' occured when Valve fostered a MOD team or project with its own resources. With HL2, all Valve MODs will be distributed through Steam (perhaps some for free and others not); maybe some will make it retail as well. Non-Valve MODs will be distributed free as before and possibly also for free through Steam as a centralizing convenience measure.

So concerning HL2 pricing,

1) 'Valve subscription': $10 a month for access over Steam to all Valve distributed content past, present, and future. The versions of HL and HL2 under this plan WILL run non-Valve MODs (but as non-stand-alone products, they will go dark too if you cut off your subscription).

2) 'Boring retail variants':

a) 'What-you're-used-to-in-a-box': HL2 SP + unlimited server-browsing MP + non-Valve MODs + free Valve MODs + ability to buy expansions and non-free Valve MODs (possilby at discount compared to stand-alone/no-HL2-required versions).
PRICE: normal (whether this means 'normal normal' or 'blizzard 60-bucks-AAA-title normal' we will find out.

b) 'Fancy-pants-in-a-box': everything in 'a)' plus tin figurine.
PRICE: 'normal platinum'.

c) 'HL2: Walmart Edition': HL2 SP + plus ability to upgrade to everything in 'a)' via Steam.
PRICE: normal minus x where x is 10-20 american (we're assuming).

3) 'Steam distribution':

a) same as 'a)' for retail
PRICE: either the same or a little less

Now this uncertainty Newell talks about probably surrounds distributing stand-alone Valve pay-MODs (but not HL2 expansions), particularly whether they will offer them as discounted upgrades to HL2 owners or just as stand-alones.

Thus ends the lesson.

 

[Logic]

Originally posted by spitcodfry
I couldn't agree with you more, and I'm sure the bulk of what you stated is true.

Everything I said has already been stated in one way or another by Gabe. If I'm wrong, by all means correct me, but as far as I'm aware I'm simply restating what Gabe has said in a way that I hope will reduce some of the negativity towards Valve and their marketing decisions. Change scares people, so they need it to be pointed out that nothing has changed so long as they stick to the standard retail option.

 

[Ahnteis]

I still want to see where this upgrade rumor came from. I searched for all posts by Gabe Newell and didn't find one stating that there would be an upgrade option.

 

[CommieX]

I don't doubt the validity of the email from Gabe, but why would Gabe send this to one random person instead of making an announcement of some sort? I thought a bunch of people emailed him about the pay-to-play thing, so why did he just respond to one?

 

[Sk00by]

:- (

half life 2 just got screwed good job! :thumbs:

 

[Ahnteis]

Originally posted by CommieX
I don't doubt the validity of the email from Gabe, but why would Gabe send this to one random person instead of making an announcement of some sort? I thought a bunch of people emailed him about the pay-to-play thing, so why did he just respond to one?

No official announcement yet because the final details are UNKNOWN. (Read the email.)

Why email everyone when just emailing one would reach us all? They do have SOME limits on their time you know.

 

[Logic]

Originally posted by Ahnteis
I still want to see where this upgrade rumor came from. I searched for all posts by Gabe Newell and didn't find one stating that there would be an upgrade option.

I stated earlier in the thread that, as with most products with varying licences, there will most likely be an upgrade option. I don't think I was the first to say something like this, but I apologise if anyone took it as fact. I would assume that this option does exist, though. Valve surely wouldn't make people re-purchase the entire product just for a couple of missing features.

Originally posted by CommieX
I don't doubt the validity of the email from Gabe, but why would Gabe send this to one random person instead of making an announcement of some sort? I thought a bunch of people emailed him about the pay-to-play thing, so why did he just respond to one?

There have been very few, if any at all (none that I know of) official press releases from Valve about HL2. Most of the information that we know about HL2 has come from answered e-mails (see the valve info thread). I guess it's just their way of interacting with the community, showing their support for it. As long as the source of information can be confirmed, I see no harm at all in the way they've been releasing information. It has given most of the community a lot of respect for Gabe and Valve.

 

[Lali]

Monthly fees? Ya right

Hi everyone,

Here are my predictions on this whole thing.

1) If this monthly fee setup works for Valve, the next thing that will happen is that all gaming companies will try to find schemes to get us on monthly fees. Guess what? Even though I make an excellent salary, I won't pay multiple monthly fees just for gaming. I prefer to buy and play as I wish.

2) Try and see how easy it will be to buy a retail game at your local store on ship date. The game will be but a download away, while your local videogames store is surprinsingly back-ordered...... People will go on the monthly fee just to get da game right away!....

3) If the monthly fee scenario is successfull, remember guys with Steam this is cold hard cash in Valve's pockets, bypassing all distribution partners (unless they have special agreements). Will they be tempted to continue selling games via retail at 30% (guessing) of the revenue they make selling DIRECT ?

I respect Gabe Newell and his crew and I sincerely hope they will be filthy rich with the good games they've been making & HL2. Let me buy the game once and for all on Steam, bypassing all distribution partners, so that Valve can get all this money, I have no problem with that.

But this monthly fee scenario is just not for me. Enough with the consumerism and the monthly fees! :flame:

Thanks for reading

Frank

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by Logic
I stated earlier in the thread that, as with most products with varying licences, there will most likely be an upgrade option. I don't think I was the first to say something like this, but I apologise if anyone took it as fact. I would assume that this option does exist, though. Valve surely wouldn't make people re-purchase the entire product just for a couple of missing features.

Page 16 has a reply to a rather rude e-mail that confirms that there will be a choice to upgrade to the multiplayer version and this will cost about the difference between the two versions.

 

[Logic]

Re: :- (

Originally posted by Sk00by
half life 2 just got screwed good job! :thumbs:

Read some of the recent posts on this thread. HL2 hasn't been screwed at all, and if you think so, you are misunderstanding what's happening. There's nothing to panic about, you will still be able to go to the store and buy a normal copy of HL2 with multiplayer and mod capability, just as it was with HL1. Don't panic.

 

[Nippy_Kangaroo]

LOL......

I think Kamakiri is pretty famous since he sent his email to gabe..
just like to say thanx to Kamakiri :cheers:

It's spread like wildfire across the net and, if it wasn't for Kamakiri sending the email in the first place we would not know about all this info surrounding steam subscription etc... wonder when gabe/valve would have let us know if Kamakiri had not sent his email ??

wow I'm gettin excited with all this hype surrounding halflife 2.
doesnt matter if its good hype or bad... halflife is sure getting alot of publicity!!

On a completely differant topic..... (cant be bothered to post somewhere else plus most of the halflife community is here reading this post topic)...... If I install steam and old version of halflife, will steam patch and update it for me automatically and install latest mods for halflife?
never used steam u see :dork: :dozey: :cheese::dork:

 

[Feath]

Re: :- (

Originally posted by Sk00by
half life 2 just got screwed good job! :thumbs:

You've mangaged to not pay attention to a word that's been said, good job! :thumbs:

 

[Logic]

Originally posted by Feath
Page 16 has a reply to a rather rude e-mail that confirms that there will be a choice to upgrade to the multiplayer version and this will cost about the difference between the two versions.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by Nippy_Kangaroo
LOL......

I think Kamakiri is pretty famous since he sent his email to gabe..
just like to say thanx to Kamakiri :cheers:

It's spread like wildfire across the net and, if it wasn't for Kamakiri sending the email in the first place we would not know about all this info surrounding steam subscription etc... wonder when gabe/valve would have let us know if Kamakiri had not sent his email ??

On a completely differant topic..... (cant be bothered to post somewhere else plus most of the halflife community is here reading this post topic)...... If I install steam and old version of halflife, will steam patch and update it for me automatically and install latest mods for halflife?
never used steam u see :dork: :dozey: :cheese:

It doesn't at the moment but it will do soon. Erik Johnson said that Steam will make use of existing content after the Beta ends. This is a good thing.

Edit: -

New conversion wizard to make better use of existing content on your drive.

 

[Logic]

Originally posted by Nippy_Kangaroo
On a completely differant topic..... (cant be bothered to post somewhere else plus most of the halflife community is here reading this post topic)...... If I install steam and old version of halflife, will steam patch and update it for me automatically and install latest mods for halflife?

There's plenty of info, and forums, dedicated to steam. Go there. :cheese:

 

[Nippy_Kangaroo]

Originally posted by Feath
It doesn't at the moment but it will do soon. Erik Johnson said that Steam will make use of existing content after the Beta ends. This is a good thing.

I thought the beta had already ended... thats why u need a valid halflife cd key?.... not sure about this though... anyone?

 

[Sk00by]

Re: Re: :- (

Originally posted by Logic
Read some of the recent posts on this thread. HL2 hasn't been screwed at all, and if you think so, you are misunderstanding what's happening. There's nothing to panic about, you will still be able to go to the store and buy a normal copy of HL2 with multiplayer and mod capability, just as it was with HL1. Don't panic.

it shouldn't be pay 2 play there is no server costs for valve i understand the sims and earth and beyond cause thats like 100 at once but ..
half life 2 ?? r-e-t-a-r-t-e-d

 

[crabcakes66]

This whole thread is confusing the shit out of me.....Im still not sure whats real and whats not.

 

[Sk00by]

and no i haven't read the past 23 pages but from what it seems there is 2 versions which is gay.. and iam hearing this 9.95 shit would some 1 like 2 clear it up ?

 

[Ahnteis]

Re: Re: Re: :- (

Originally posted by Sk00by
it shouldn't be pay 2 play there is no server costs for valve i understand the sims and earth and beyond cause thats like 100 at once but ..
half life 2 ?? r-e-t-a-r-t-e-d

You = troll OR moron.
BTW, it's RETARDED.

 

[Logic]

Originally posted by Sk00by
and no i haven't read the past 23 pages but from what it seems there is 2 versions which is gay.. and iam hearing this 9.95 shit would some 1 like 2 clear it up ?

Read page 22 (for a start).

HL2 is NOT pay to play unless you WANT to pay a regular fee instead of purchasing Valve products. If you pay the regular fee, you get all the Valve products available to you. If you don't want to, buy the normal version in the shops. If you want to save some money, and you don't want multiplayer or mods, buy the "lite" version.

 

[Virtuoso]

Basically, valve are confusing people, selling a single player non-mod non-multiplayer game is the stupidest idea i have ever seen in my opinion.

I mean that was the beauty of half-life, as it was one of my first time games i finished the single player, went "wow" and then a few weeks later my mate is like "come play multiplayer there's these really cool mods" and thus the phenomenon (spelling) began. Thats what sold hl so many copies, it sucked in so many people with its extra stuff, and now they are taking this very thing from the next release.

I think its rather silly of valve and dodgy to sell a single player only version of hl2 despite being able to upgrade, as everyone will just buy the proper version. It just generates confusion among the buyers. Why cant they just release a normal computer game ffs.

Pay for content, does this mean we have to pay for patches? What is this "content". If the "content" is the same type of content we got for hl, making us pay for it this time is rather cheap. Who here four years ago bought half-life as a 14-15 year old with saved up cash from weeks of working and played the single player game religously for days on end. Valve are now asking these same kids for the same dedication to pay 9.95 a month, criminal.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by Virtuoso
Basically, valve are confusing people, selling a single player non-mod non-multiplayer game is the stupidest idea i have ever seen in my opinion.

I mean that was the beauty of half-life, as it was one of my first time games i finished the single player, went "wow" and then a few weeks later my mate is like "come play multiplayer there's these really cool mods" and thus the phenomenon (spelling) began. Thats what sold hl so many copies, it sucked in so many people with its extra stuff, and now they are taking this very thing from the next release.

I think its rather silly of valve and dodgy to sell a single player only version of hl2 despite being able to upgrade, as everyone will just buy the proper version. It just generates confusion among the buyers. Why cant they just release a normal computer game ffs.

Pay for content, does this mean we have to pay for patches? What is this "content". If the "content" is the same type of content we got for hl, making us pay for it this time is rather cheap. Who here four years ago bought half-life as a 14-15 year old with saved up cash from weeks of working and played the single player game religously for days on end. Valve are now asking these same kids for the same dedication to pay 9.95 a month, criminal.

You haven't been paying attention.

The content that Gabe was talking about was Expansion Packs and other games. You will get these with your $10 subscription a month.

I'm pretty sure you had to buy Opposing Force when it came out.

You don't buy the game and pay the subscription cost, you do one or the other. You buy the game, it's yours for life. You subscribe, it's yours for $10 a month (along with other content such as expansion packs and stand alone games).

They are doing a single player version for people who don't want to play multiplayer. Despite what you may thing, these people exist. But if they change their mind, they can upgrade and won't end up paying any more money.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by Nippy_Kangaroo
I thought the beta had already ended... thats why u need a valid halflife cd key?.... not sure about this though... anyone?

The beta is ending soonish, it hasn't ended yet. We can still play Half Life for free as long as we have Steam.

 

[Ahnteis]

Originally posted by Virtuoso
Basically, valve are confusing people, selling a single player non-mod non-multiplayer game is the stupidest idea i have ever seen in my opinion.

Valve's mistake was guessing that the majority of their target audience would be smart enough to understand a simple concept like multiple purchasing options.

 

[Virtuoso]

can you say "pointless"

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by Virtuoso
can you say "pointless"

Not at all. Despite your views, some people won't play Half Life 2 Multiplayer. They may not have a net connexion or may just not want to.

Now these people can go and pay for what they get, they'll get a slightly cheaper version, because they are only getting 3/4 of the product. It will encourage people to buy Half Life 2.

 

[IamZombie]

So how long do you pay $10 a month for?

Why couldn't I just buy the regular multiplayer version and download patches and mods online like I normally would do?

Seems pretty stupid to me.
Hopefully sierra won't ruin this like they did with Tribes2.

 

[Logic]

Originally posted by IamZombie

Why couldn't I just buy the regular multiplayer version and download patches and mods online like I normally would do?

You can. Do so. Confusion over.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by IamZombie
So how long do you pay $10 a month for?

Why couldn't I just buy the regular multiplayer version and download patches and mods online like I normally would do?

Seems pretty stupid to me.
Hopefully sierra won't ruin this like they did with Tribes2.

You pay $10 a month for as long as you want the game. If you want the game forever then you should buy it in the store.

I have no idea what Sierra did to Tribes 2 but Valve is in charge of Half Life 2, they are a stand alone company, Sierra/Vivendi only publish the game, put it into boxes and ship it off.

 

[Anwar]

Originally posted by dscowboy
2 packs of underwear, lol.
There's another situation where subscription would make sense: If you didn't have 50 bucks to spend all at once.

Or you could forgo new underwear for hl2.

 

[Tyrion]

(sorry if any of this has been said before,but I got to page ten and just gave up on reading the 14 extra pages..)

I actually like 3 different options for buying. The single player will be cheaper than the full version(and not all have a good enough connecton..some have 56k). The full version will STILL cost the same as it would if there wasnt any single-player version. And you better damn well make sure that you have the correct version,considering you'll be spending 50 dollars. Unless you're the kind that looks at a box that says "Half-life2' and say "oooh! shiney!" and pick it. I hope I'm not naive enough to expect people to see what they're buying.

The steam version is eh,odd to say the least. I can see how they can pull it off(considering they need to get an expansion pack in 5 months to let the subscribers have thiers money's worth. That's what a few are forgetting).

As for the mod, they're being DEVELOPED by valve. They're essentially expansion packs. Why is it that you think that a mod means free? It's a modification. It changed the game, which usually requires developers to work on it. Which cost money. So unless Valve is rolling in money,I'm betting they'll have to pay thier developers,since they joined primarily to make money and not your enjoyment(sad but true). At least you'll be paying for something WORTHWHILE. And you'll still have plenty of other mods, which will still be free. Just not as popular.

There. *sweats&

 

[IamZombie]

Originally posted by Logic
You can. Do so. Confusion over.

so what would the advantage of steam be?

 

[Virtuoso]

^ What zombie said

Here's an idea, lets release one version of the game and give people the choice of whether they want to play multiplayer or not rather than putting a price on that choice. But thats only what the rest of the industry is doing dont worry dont do that.

I'm sorry i just feel for the kids who are going to open up their presents on christmas day and go "AWWWWW MUM YOU GOT THE SINGLE PLAYER ONLY VERSION" and the mother will go "but the man said it was cheaper"

 

[Tyrion]

Steams advantage- never have to worry about going out to a store to check if it's in stock/buy it. Also you can pay over a period of time. 10 bucks a month, as opposed to roughly 50 bucks every 6 monks(with 2 25 dollar expansion pack/free maps).

Edit- Yeah,the only problem about that is the kid would probably make sure that thier parents knew that it was the multiplayer version they wanted. Or else I wouldnt see why that would make a difference, as the parents could buy quake III instead. *shrugs*

 

[Logic]

Originally posted by IamZombie
so what would the advantage of steam be?

Steam is basically something people with extremely fast internet connections may want. It gives them the convenience of not having to go shopping to get Valve games. They simply log into steam, and it's all there, available to them within minutes. People who pay the subscription fee will have this convenience. If you are on a slow connection, or none at all, obviously it's not for you, which is why the boxed store versions exist. If you don't have an internet connection, or aren't interested in mods or multiplayer, you might as well save some money and just get the single player version, which will be cheaper. It's all about giving options to people who want them. There might not be any point in certain options for you, but there's bound to be a lot of other people who will benefit from them.

 

[IamZombie]

Originally posted by Tyrion
Steams advantage- never have to worry about going out to a store to check if it's in stock/buy it. Also you can pay over a period of time. 10 bucks a month, as opposed to roughly 50 bucks every 6 monks(with 2 25 dollar expansion pack/free maps).

$50 every six months is cheaper than $10 a month for 6 months.

$50 vs $60.

do they expect people to pay for mods?
if so, this game will be the most anticipated flop and I'll be buying stalker.