Engines

I have mine reserved, but (like everyone else) release frustration is getting to me :(

but regardless, the only thing I dont like/cant stand about STALKER is the models (both player and weapons) they are horrendous. the environment engine looks incredible, but the models/weapons/creatures/players (that I have seen) are just eyesores. I also find the physics model slightly clumsy looking (from what I have seen) compared to Hl2s.
however those are just personal observations and personal preferences. I will buy both games (more than likely)
 
Originally posted by Sp0ck
The wise Surak teaches where two things have differences, they become greater than the sum of both of them individually. And also, the spear in the other's heart is the spear in your own.
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Don't let him fool you, children, it will only make him stronger!
 
Originally posted by Mr. Redundant
but regardless, the only thing I dont like/cant stand about STALKER is the models (both player and weapons) they are horrendous. the environment engine looks incredible, but the models/weapons/creatures/players (that I have seen) are just eyesores. I also find the physics model slightly clumsy looking (from what I have seen) compared to Hl2s.
however those are just personal observations and personal preferences. I will buy both games (more than likely)
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Yeah, from the 61 meg STALKER trailer, the physics shown were a little wonky. Then again, I'm sure GSC Game World didn't spend half the time tweaking that component that Valve did. But I'm just making an
assumption, so I don't really know.

I'm real excited about Far Cry as well. The draw distance is incredible, especially coupled with the graphics. At www.farcryhq.com I found a really good video I hadn't seen before that really shows this off. Look for FarCry_HighQuality.avi (that's the filename at least). The player uses binoculars and zooms in from afar to a military base on the opposite shore. Nothing short of jaw-dropping.
 
Originally posted by spitcodfry
Yeah, from the 61 meg STALKER trailer, the physics shown were a little wonky. Then again, I'm sure GSC Game World didn't spend half the time tweaking that component that Valve did. But I'm just making an
assumption, so I don't really know.

I'm real excited about Far Cry as well. The draw distance is incredible, especially coupled with the graphics. At www.farcryhq.com I found a really good video I hadn't seen before that really shows this off. Look for FarCry_HighQuality.avi (that's the filename at least). The player uses binoculars and zooms in from afar to a military base on the opposite shore. Nothing short of jaw-dropping.
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yeah I saw that one a while back, then he launches a rocket at em right?
yeah I was so into Far cry till HL2 was announced, I was also following Stalker and Doom3 (I plan to get em all if they are good) I just dont advocate them (even though they all are great games in their own respect) since this is my main love (and a HL2 forum)

All these next gen games look excellent, I just want something to while away the time till HL2 :)
Deus ex2 has some cool concepts, and the gameplay sounds ace... however Im a gfx man :(
and although some would argue it to have good gfx.. it just doesnt look appealing to me.
 
Originally posted by spitcodfry
http://www.gamershell.com/download_2782.shtml

Download and watch that. I haven't seen lighting in Half-Life 2 that is as advanced as what's shown in the latter portion of that trailer. You'll know what I mean when you see it; flashlight scanning over objects in a darkened area: simply breathtaking.

EDIT: I wanted to take note that from all the next-gen shooter preview videos I've seen, which includes STALKER, Deus Ex Invisible War, and Far Cry, they all seem to sport the same style of dynamic lighting found in Doom III, whereas Half-Life 2's present demonstrations on lighting seem to be a bit bland. I'd like to see the generic shoot the swinging lamp in a room (of which all previously mentioned shooters have shown in preview videos) to display Half-Life 2's dynamic lighting capabilities. Anyone else want to see what Half-Life 2's lighting can really do? I know I do.
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That's part of what i try to talk about, but i'm not as good as u to summerize them briefly.

Yeah, we all like hl2 , but we can't deny that some other engine have some really cool feature that source doesn't have. All upcoming engines, except source, have a very advance lighting system. They all can do dynamic lighting and shadowing, image can change in depth, in size and in form according to the light source. Since I like hl2 so much, I wonder why they can't do the same or better lighting system for source engine. I know it will use up cpu, but of course, we are not going to use the same computer for the rest of our life, we should look forward to better and better performance. And i work harder and learn more in order to become so rich , so i can buy all these games and I don't need to mind which is better any more.
 
Originally posted by Sp0ck
Such conflicts between engines exist only inside the minds of confrontational gamers. In truth, each engine is molded to its own purpose, and those functions which are not relevant to its purpose are undeveloped. To say that one engine is better than another is folly, for the two engines being compared were built and molded for two different purposes. This diversity is beneficial to the industry and, ultimately, the gamer as well. Therefore, instead of debating which engine is better, we should rejoice that each engine is so diverse.


The wise Surak teaches where two things have differences, they become greater than the sum of both of them individually. And also, the spear in the other's heart is the spear in your own.



May we continually seek after Wisdom.

Live Long and Prosper.
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You speak the truth, but as people who are interested in making mods, we compare the engines to determine which will excel in a given area, helping us choose which games we want to mod and which ones we don't. It's an in-depth analysis of these engines' capabilities.

Live Long and Prosper
 
Originally posted by ElFuhrer

Live Long and Prosper
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Oh Noes!!!!1!1!@1!!!! He's gotten to ElFuhrer! Snap out of it boy!
/me shakes and slaps ElFuhrer.
 
Originally posted by Sp0ck
...In truth, each engine is molded to its own purpose, and those functions which are not relevant to its purpose are undeveloped...
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I don't agree that a engine is develop specifically for its own game. If they create the doom3 engine, they will license it to other companies to make other kind of games with totally different environment, story, players,etc. It won't be suprise to see SOF3 using doom3 engine, it won't be suprise to see it with source engine either. An engine is created to simulate the world the better. Source engine can be used to make hl2, it can also be used to make world war games, city tactical cs type, aliens games, zombie stuff(like doom3), even strategy mixed with fps(like ns). So an engine should have endless possibilities to stimulate any kind of worlds. And the best engine is the engine that can create all these worlds with the best simulation. And the whole simulation thing rely a lot on the capabilities of the engine.

In short, Source is not for half life 2 only, and Doom3 engine is not for doom3 only.
 
Originally posted by Mr. Redundant
Deus ex2 has some cool concepts, and the gameplay sounds ace... however Im a gfx man :(
and although some would argue it to have good gfx.. it just doesnt look appealing to me.
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I know what you mean. Aside from noticeable modeling/texture improvements and real time lighting it isn't the biggest leap from its predecessor in terms of graphics. Then again, most who seek out Deus Ex Invisible War won't be pursuing it for this purpose. I still can't decide on whether I'll get it for computer or X-BOX. I'm pretty sure it'll run fine on my current rig; Athlon XP 1700 AIW Radeon 9800 Pro 768 MB RAM, but I know it'll look smooth on my TV (cept some graphical features excluded from X-BOX version).
 
Greetings.

I was not suggesting that each engine is developed specifically for its own game. Instead, i was only pointing out that each engine will be molded and tweaked to better suit the demands of the game it is intended to drive.

Also, while many functions are implemented for use by others in the future, these functions will be left in a raw state, so that the developers who decide to use them in the future can mold them to better suit their own needs. For instance, it is quite illogical for Valve to implement functionality for flyable planes, and subsequently tweak it to suit their own preferences. For they don't plan to use that particular functionality. Instead, they will implement the functionality and leave it, in a basic state, for others to mold for their own game.


Live Long and Prosper.
 
Im thinking of grabbing it for the xbox...
mainly because the graphics arent stunning so I dont mind playing it with even less. (my rig is as powerful as modern tech can get)
I figure DX2 is one of those involving RPGs that I can slap in my xbox, lay on my bed and relax while playing it.

hopefully its a game with a decent length to it... (unfortunately my two recent purchases have left me with a slight "I wasted my cash" feeling... MP2, and CoD.. dont get me wrong both are masterpieces in their own right, however its sad after such a dry spell in the gaming market, that 2 heavy hitters were so short lived)
 
Spit, I have been perusing the FarCry videos on that site you linked earlier (thanks for that) and I incorrectly guessed the video you meant.
man that is stunning, I kinda wrote Far-cry off.. I dont really know why.. I just kinda lost interest.
however after seeing the latest build in action I must say Im anticipating this ones release for sure. those lush expanse landscapes, cool team AI (reminiscent of Halo honestly), and of course, the amazing editor.
thanks again for rekindling my interest.

EDIT: (oops, sorry for the double post guys, I dont know what I did there.. thought It was editing my first)
 
Originally posted by Mr. Redundant
Im thinking of grabbing it for the xbox...
mainly because the graphics arent stunning so I dont mind playing it with even less. (my rig is as powerful as modern tech can get)
I figure DX2 is one of those involving RPGs that I can slap in my xbox, lay on my bed and relax while playing it.

hopefully its a game with a decent length to it... (unfortunately my two recent purchases have left me with a slight "I wasted my cash" feeling... MP2, and CoD.. dont get me wrong both are masterpieces in their own right, however its sad after such a dry spell in the gaming market, that 2 heavy hitters were so short lived)
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Length for Deus Ex Invisible War hopefully isn't a factor because of its large replayability. From previews I've read Ion Storm folks said its possible to complete the game without killing anyone. Now won't that be something for an fps. Then again, who isn't gonna take advantage at least once if they come upon a big, shiny flamethrower?

EDIT:
thanks again for rekindling my interest.
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Good to know my link-posting wasn't done in vain.
 
If you can't tell how sophisticated Valve Source Engine is by looking at the HDR tech video then you might want to take a trip to the eye doctor :D. It's more impressive than anything I have seen displayed for Doom3. Just watch the spinning spheres they plopped in the scene.

The G-man video is another example that shows Half-Life2 to be superior to anything that has been show for any other game so far in the character animation, realism area.

The fact that Half-Life2 has to remain scaleable for low end computers will have an effect on how advanced they want to do things graphically. Not an engine limitation but a design decision.

Now here is the problem:
Half-Life2 was supposed to come out in September and had it shipped on that date, you would all be drooling in disbelief. But the game is delayed. Unfortunately the later Half-Life2 ships the less stellar it will look and other games will look better if they do not continue to evovle the Source engine before Half-Life2 ships. This could be why Half-life2 could be delayed as late as April. Let's face it, if Half-Life2 disappoints graphically compared to other games, fans are going to be let down even if it has the best gameplay imaginable. A lot of people will be buying directX9 cards in 2004 especially since all these great looking games will be coming out, and they want to see great graphics. Valve knows the dealy could hurt them big time in this area, but fortunately Half-Life Counter Strike is proof that great graphics is not necessary to extend the playability of a game. Keeping the game scaleable is probably a wise choice and will bring a wider audience but it may place limitations on the game graphically :afro:
 
Originally posted by spitcodfry
Length for Deus Ex Invisible War hopefully isn't a factor because of its large replayability. From previews I've read Ion Storm folks said its possible to complete the game without killing anyone. Now won't that be something for an fps. Then again, who isn't gonna take advantage at least once if they come upon a big, shiny flamethrower?
Click to expand...

I hear you, IM hoping however it doesnt fall in the same hole that Morrowind did.
I was hyped for that one (being a daggerfall fan) and its replayability (on paper at least) was immense.. however that was its downfall.

ONE thing I am LOVING about the DE universe however, is the "syndicate-esque" augmentation system, I havent found too much out about it in DE2, but Im hoping they delve deeper into that side for DE2. (I love syndicate :)
 
Originally posted by Mr. Redundant
ONE thing I am LOVING about the DE universe however, is the "syndicate-esque" augmentation system, I havent found too much out about it in DE2, but Im hoping they delve deeper into that side for DE2. (I love syndicate :)
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You seen the Warren Spector (head guy working on DE) interview? You can find it at www.de2files.com . I believe he broaches what you're talking about. I may have that info confused with the recent preview IGN did for both the PC and X-BOX versions. I do remember hearing/reading somewhere that they've changed the idea of how the skill system works (real world context, not how you allot xp points etc).
 
x-ray(stalker) crytek(farcry) source(hl2)

are three top notch engines, cant wait to see how they perform..


oh ya and whatever d3 is on ;)
 
doom3 is just doom3. Carmack probably thinks he's above silly names.
 
Is the vid u guys were talkin about the one called "Far Cry - PC Action Video (HIGH) "? If not then i'm a tard and can't find it on there.

nm, it's not letting me download anything anyway.
 
i can remember at least 4 games ,diferent than Doom3 ,that right now are under development in the D3 engine..


1)QUake4
http://q4c.planet-multiplayer.de/quake4/

2)X-game (by human head studios) (RUne developers)
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/25891/


3)X-game by (SPlash damage ..Wolfenstein: ET developers)
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/27038/

4)x-game by (nerve software)
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/15471/

is that were no enough ,it seems that ALien vs predator 3 will be done too in the doom3 engine.. :cheers:
http://doom3maps.ngz-network.de/news.php (new D3 screenshot)

it is interesting to know that JCarmack have already told in his latest plann that he has been -playing- with very long intructions shaders beyond the limits of the R300 in the Nv30(for future projects) and with very accurate FP 24/32 reflective surfaces, that he already added code in the engine for vehicles which most probably will not be used in doom3 retail ,but that modders and/or developers will have great use of it and that he already told that Doom3 engine will be enough for at least incoming games in 5 years. :cool:

but to complete the fun ,another game that i love to see also is AMerican MacGee alice in the D3. :cheese: D3 engine will be very popular for many many years ,Doom3 -game- is only the surface of what is possible in that engine . Realtime Unified Per Pixel lightning/bumpmapping and Per-Poly Physics Collisions will be more and more the defacto-standar in first person shooters . :cool:
 
Originally posted by iamironsam
AvP3 on the Doom3 engine would be truly intense.
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AvP3 in any engine would be intense. (if done properly)
honestly.. I recently (like a couple days ago) played it through and enjoyed it just as much as the day I bought it.... even more so on my much more powerful hardware, all the parts that could have scared me before that were marred with fps drops, now shine through.. its a whole new game with my new framerate.

in fact Im going through my entire old games library.. next up its Heavy Gear :)
 
Originally posted by Mr. Redundant
AvP3 in any engine would be intense. (if done properly)
honestly.. I recently (like a couple days ago) played it through and enjoyed it just as much as the day I bought it.... even more so on my much more powerful hardware, all the parts that could have scared me before that were marred with fps drops, now shine through.. its a whole new game with my new framerate.

in fact Im going through my entire old games library.. next up its Heavy Gear :)
Click to expand...

I haven't been particularly impressed with the AvP series thus far. I feel like the Doom3 engine could definitely do it some justice.
 
Originally posted by iamironsam
I haven't been particularly impressed with the AvP series thus far. I feel like the Doom3 engine could definitely do it some justice.
Click to expand...

thats my point, its not the engine... its the developers.
I thought AvP2 was impressive for its time, and the gfx still arent that bad when played again today (at least on my rig maxed out rez, 16aa 6AF blah blah)

the game itself was a nice "concept" but it could have done with some better execution.

but as I said, its up to the developers to take advantage of the engine and technology available to them, not the engine and technology itself.
 
Ok, then let me rephrase.

AvP3 on the Doom 3 engine could be truly intense.

Doom 3 and the Aliens movies (which is where I feel the inspiration for the AvP games came from) have very similar concepts. I feel like the Doom 3 engine could cater perfectly to Alien's eery cramped indoor environments.
 
Originally posted by iamironsam
I feel like the Doom 3 engine could cater perfectly to Alien's eery cramped indoor environments.
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:cheers:
now that you mention it, damn straight.
 
I feel like I should get a computer that can run doom3 perfectly, so that I can run any other games perfectly too.
 
Judging by the benchmarks already released for Doom 3, it may indeed be the game in which to judge the performance of all other games on. But you have to take into account the whole ATi vs. nVidia debate problem. ATi seems to be the choice for HL2, but not for Doom 3 and the opposite goes for nVidia.
 
Originally posted by Mr. Redundant
:cheers:
now that you mention it, damn straight.
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If done right, it'd be fuggin' awesome.
 
Engines are whatever the developers want. There are only a few statements you can say about engines and their motives that encompass all engines being made (and it'll be something stupid like 'it works on a computer').
Source was made around HL2, Crytek was originally a Geforce show-off project, Doom3's engine was decided upon before Doom3 and Carmack has stated that his main goal in the engine is to bring dynamic lights/shadows into mainstream games/software.
 
Personally I've got a Hard-on for most of the upcoming engines, I'm just concerned about the gameplay. Although Doom 3 looks like the daddy of them all graphically, given IDs lacklustre track record regarding the notion of 'plot' I'm not inspired to make it a 'must-have' purchase. I'd rather wait for another developer (like Ion Storm) to utilise the engine and judge it accordingly then.

I think Stalker has the edge over HL2 visually, but HL2 makes up for it with respect to the Character appearance/animation and the material physics that they have introduced (wood acting like wood.....). I don't really have any particular opinion on Farcry, it looks neither worse or better than either stalker or HL2.

I think that the really exciting thing is going to see the next generation of engines that emerge in a few years that bring together the positive elements from all of these engines.
 
I wonder whats the next step.. first it was a side scoller than 3d...right now we are playing about with physics...radiosity? or really really clever AI?...

What is true a descent engine does complement a good game :bounce:
 
Hopefully VR technology will become the norm soon, that would be so cool :)

(P.S. jat, you've spelt Radeon wrong in your sig)
 
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