Episode 2 - what it does/doesn't need.
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eber
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rofl, good one... anyway.. to answer your guys questions..
you might not have noticed yet what the characters actually are.. here we go:
dr kleiner - the somewhat perplexed genius doctor. no comment .
eli vance - the sympathetic old guy. very cliche like, nothing more to say about it!
alyx - the hot quote bitch. some hot girl thats just there to charm the guys. and see whats happening.. ppl build up a cult about her because shes so "sweet" :| , you also find this character in alot of bad movies, note that no good movie can have such a character.
dr breen - the crazy maniac who wants to take over the world, or in this case already did. he could actually be any evil character from a super hero comic, or even manga..
dr mossman - covered spy working for the evil side. you will also find this in about any movie which is about science fiction and all that stuff.. this character type appears in alot of movies, yet in movies its pulled off well mostly
.barney - the cool guy. :smoking: although its never that bad to have a cool guy there, i think hes ok.
in conclusion: a cliche character is not necessarily bad as long as its well done, so dr kleiner and barney are somewhat well done. there would be ways to improve their credibility but they are good as they are... the other characters are so badly done that the *CLICHE* literally jumps into your ****ing face!
you cannot deny this for it is true. if you cannot sense it then your perceptions must be tainted from all the bad movies and games out there.
its not important to know what is happening to alyx or mossman or whoever, the real story are the happenings in the world - the struggle - the victories - the failures and whatever. its really of no relevance if someone tells you that alyx is in a save place c'mon.
blck_prod
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OMG he keeps going on....
about your idea that HL-characters are cliché: Most game characters are black and white. In the HL-universe they are grey. They range from dark gray to light but they are not straight forward. They have the broadest range of facial-emotions ever seen in a game and the voice-acting is top notch. If this doesn't wor for you then you'd better stop playing games at all. Hell to me the HL-characters look more human than some actors in a movie.
to me:
Dr Breen is Evil, yet human...
Alex is a independent yet insecure girl...she seems tough but ain't that tough. I know lots of girls with such an attitude. Mostly 'hot' girls in games have big boobs and almost no clothes on. With Alex none of this is the case...
Eli: Is the I've seen it all, wise and to be trusted leader...a little cliché but a good counterweight towars Alex
G-man: Good or Bad we still don't know it...How gray can a character be...
Kleiner: Is a little bit cliché I must conquer but he's there for the humor.
Barney: The old trusted friend...also a little bit cliché
Mossman: The traitor or allie...
So okay...some of these characters are based on archetypes, but they work and they are more than just that a cliché. Like with all things HL-related...We never know everything. There's always speculation and 2 sides of the story. That's one of the reasons I love this franchise so much and then you say it's cliché...OMG Have you ever played Doom, prey, Fear, COD, and all the rest of those go straight forward and shoot everything-shooters?
Go troll somewhere else...no explanation can validate your opinion
bye bye :imu:
about your idea that HL-characters are cliché: Most game characters are black and white. In the HL-universe they are grey. They range from dark gray to light but they are not straight forward. They have the broadest range of facial-emotions ever seen in a game and the voice-acting is top notch. If this doesn't wor for you then you'd better stop playing games at all. Hell to me the HL-characters look more human than some actors in a movie.
to me:
Dr Breen is Evil, yet human...
Alex is a independent yet insecure girl...she seems tough but ain't that tough. I know lots of girls with such an attitude. Mostly 'hot' girls in games have big boobs and almost no clothes on. With Alex none of this is the case...
Eli: Is the I've seen it all, wise and to be trusted leader...a little cliché but a good counterweight towars Alex
G-man: Good or Bad we still don't know it...How gray can a character be...
Kleiner: Is a little bit cliché I must conquer but he's there for the humor.
Barney: The old trusted friend...also a little bit cliché
Mossman: The traitor or allie...
So okay...some of these characters are based on archetypes, but they work and they are more than just that a cliché. Like with all things HL-related...We never know everything. There's always speculation and 2 sides of the story. That's one of the reasons I love this franchise so much and then you say it's cliché...OMG Have you ever played Doom, prey, Fear, COD, and all the rest of those go straight forward and shoot everything-shooters?
Go troll somewhere else...no explanation can validate your opinion
bye bye :imu:
Shift
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What I dont get Eber, is that you love Half-Life 1 and therefore you have to have to have liked the characters, Kleiner, Eli, Barney and Breen all come from Half-Life 1, and all of a sudden they are cliched characters? You really are not picking up on the story and what the characters are representing. First of all, Kleiner, Eli and Mossman are all the brains behind the resistance, not just Kliener.
Eli is not just some sympathetic old guy, if you followed the story you will find out he is actually leader of the resistance and is the man who practically keep the resistance going. A
lyx is miles off the cliched girls you get normally, sure she is made to be hot but we dont want some ugly fat bird running about do we, she is not some little lost injured animal who we have to save all the time, she is a strong fighter and can definately handle herself in any situation, however, she has been seeing all this death and fighting practically all her life and her dad is the only person she has to cling to to keep going, the warmth her dad has given her has made her driven by her emotions however there is only so much she can take, how you dont find her personality and traits original is beyond words. Also she has feelings for Gordon because of a) she has never been with a man in her entire life, b) Gordon risking his life and doing the impossible for the resistance, he practically kick started everything and c) he has saved both his and her life on countless occasions, the cliched birds just for no apparant reason fall for the hero, but in this case, Gordon is no hero, he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and he is trying to correct his mistakes.
Breen is not an evil genious trying to take over the world, if you followed the story you will realise that Breen is disillusioned into thinking that he is helping mankind and that he stopped the Combine from exterminating the human race which he did, he thinks doing the things he does is for the good of mankind, there is no reference ANYWHERE that he wants to control the world, the Combine control the world, he just sees himself as a representative for them.
Mossman was a traitor but it was for a new and original reason, unlike with your cliched characters, they find a mole and it just turns out that that person is actually a bad guy, end of. Mossman is not a bad guy as people would call them, she is just very ambitious with her research and im not too sure but I think she believes that working for Breen on the Combine teleporters using Eli's information will help her create what she wants quicker, at the end she finally realises her mistake.
Barney is not just the cool guy, he leads the resistance fighters against the Combine for an entire week whilst Gordon and Alyx teleoprted back from Nova Prospect, Barney is one of the main resistance leaders and does his job just as well as Gordon, he aint just the cool guy.
Its your own opinions but I and a lot of people believe that you are so wrong in many ways.
Eli is not just some sympathetic old guy, if you followed the story you will find out he is actually leader of the resistance and is the man who practically keep the resistance going. A
lyx is miles off the cliched girls you get normally, sure she is made to be hot but we dont want some ugly fat bird running about do we, she is not some little lost injured animal who we have to save all the time, she is a strong fighter and can definately handle herself in any situation, however, she has been seeing all this death and fighting practically all her life and her dad is the only person she has to cling to to keep going, the warmth her dad has given her has made her driven by her emotions however there is only so much she can take, how you dont find her personality and traits original is beyond words. Also she has feelings for Gordon because of a) she has never been with a man in her entire life, b) Gordon risking his life and doing the impossible for the resistance, he practically kick started everything and c) he has saved both his and her life on countless occasions, the cliched birds just for no apparant reason fall for the hero, but in this case, Gordon is no hero, he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and he is trying to correct his mistakes.
Breen is not an evil genious trying to take over the world, if you followed the story you will realise that Breen is disillusioned into thinking that he is helping mankind and that he stopped the Combine from exterminating the human race which he did, he thinks doing the things he does is for the good of mankind, there is no reference ANYWHERE that he wants to control the world, the Combine control the world, he just sees himself as a representative for them.
Mossman was a traitor but it was for a new and original reason, unlike with your cliched characters, they find a mole and it just turns out that that person is actually a bad guy, end of. Mossman is not a bad guy as people would call them, she is just very ambitious with her research and im not too sure but I think she believes that working for Breen on the Combine teleporters using Eli's information will help her create what she wants quicker, at the end she finally realises her mistake.
Barney is not just the cool guy, he leads the resistance fighters against the Combine for an entire week whilst Gordon and Alyx teleoprted back from Nova Prospect, Barney is one of the main resistance leaders and does his job just as well as Gordon, he aint just the cool guy.
Its your own opinions but I and a lot of people believe that you are so wrong in many ways.
Shift
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agree with everything, but CoD was far from a mindless shooter, it was the first world war 2 shooter that actually taught the players that the fighting in world war 2 was done by millions of men, not just some lone rambo soldier, it was actually a very well thought out and moving game, in my opinion.
Zephos
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And that is why the sequel struck me as odd, as it felt completely sterile...devoid of personality compared to the first CoD.
eber
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you find those boring characters in all kinds of movies, that for yes they are black and white. the fact that they have facial expressions and talk and even behave like real humans doesnt matter here, because they are still cliche.. and it doesnt fit to the half-life franchise.
actually, those "cliche" characters destroy the whole tension and mystery that was build up during half-life(1). so when they revealed breens character they kind of destroyed all the mystery about the administration and its goals in hl1. now you know what crappy bastard was behind all that and it really makes me want to kill someone.. such a character doesnt fit in the least, and i just have to repeat that they destroyed the mystery about it by revealing it. they dont have to introduce a character at all to make you understand what is or was going on there.. there are other ways to savely do it without destroying anything.
now i ask you, have you ever played Half-Life ?
if you actually understand why half-life was so good then you WILL have a problem with half-life 2.the reason why half life was so good was not only because of the top graphics for its time or the very good story and all the great action scenes with the music. it was the overall atmosphere that made half-life to what it was.the claustrophobic feeling, the mystery, they were created by the good leveldesign and the voice actors which did a great job. the speeches of the actors were great, it was perfectly made and created a feeling like in a serious science fiction thriller.
you either forgot about all these qualities or you never noticed or even did not apreciate them, however it seems like you guys only find half life 2 so good because of its good graphics and the good physics, the characters that act like real humans... you get so impressed by it that you dont even notice that it doesnt fit at all.
my explanations are quite valid though.
no ur wrong there, none of those characters you listed there was ever introduced in half-life. kleiners,elis and barneys names were mentioned somewhere yet not in the actual game itself.. those names were only referred to the models, in barneys case at least.
so it came very surprisingly what they made out of that concept..
dr breen however never was even mentioned by anyone. breen was a not existent character at all. in hl1 there was the talk about the administration, so it was totally anonymous and open for anything.
so what? i dont get your point, those are still badly made cliche characters whatever they do. anyway just what they are doing makes them even more cliche-like and bad.
again, you did not get my point, she is a cliche because she is all that what you just described.
what also remains absurd to me is the fact that you always meet her during the game, what ****ing coincidence is that, that she always exactly knows where you are. and why does a young girl run around in a holiday dress during a bloody and brutal civil war and never getting shot by anything, she doesnt even wear a damn suit or something... isnt that a cliche dude ?
all those facts are totally irrelevant and i still dont get the point of what you want to tell me here..
why this stuff doesnt fit to half-life you might ask now? because half-life is not sims or some society game...
your way of thinking is incredible , you keep putting obstacles in your own way
..actually, yes. those points you came up with there are the reason why breen is a crazy maniac who wants to take over the world.. so hes a cliche character and nothing else.. the fact that he only wants best for mankind makes it even worse :rolling: !
same thing..... :bonce:
same thing again ....
i dont think that this argument has anything to do with opinions, it is about wether you like it or not.
so obviously i keep proving you wrong and still you deny the truth because you are so influenced by your own point of view, incredible.
Shift
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Yes it was badly stated argument because I cant really be bothered to take my time with it so I will say it in a much more bottom line way. We are in the year 2006, proper films have been running since the early 1930s, not to mention the amount of games out their already that influence a good storyline with characters, so yes, the characters that have been implemented into Half-Life 2 have all been seen before in other contexts so you could call them cliched, but each character has the perfect motive which implements them perfectly into Half-Life 2, as well as the fact that each character are almost perfectly act like normal human beings, but each one is original, not because those sort of characters have not been used before, but because of the way the characters are used in the story and the way they fit in and interact with the player. How you say that the characters dont fit baffles me, and how you can even compare the characters we see in Half-Life 2 to the characters in Half-Life 1 is unbelievable.
Oh and I think you will find that 'my point of view' matches the point of view of practically every user of this forum and I dare say the majority of the people who have played Half-Life 2 in the world. Its you who is so influenced by their own point of view. Just for the record, imo your point of view is laughable.
Oh and I think you will find that 'my point of view' matches the point of view of practically every user of this forum and I dare say the majority of the people who have played Half-Life 2 in the world. Its you who is so influenced by their own point of view. Just for the record, imo your point of view is laughable.
eber
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the problem with the characters is not that they have been used before, it is that they are so obviously being used for certain reasons that it creates a feeling like you are standing above all of it. you can just predict what they are gonna do or how they act or what will happen at all concerning those characters... it is just badly made and thats all.. those characters just dont fit to half-life..
its incredible actually how you keep twisting the words in my mouth...look what you sayd in your former post ...
do you see what i mean? you are the one who was comparing characters from hl1 and hl2, yet you didnt even understand that those characters you listed were no real characters in hl1 but only in hl2...
well only because the majority of people has something in common doesnt mean that their point of view is the ultimate truth.. right?
that you find my point of view laughable doesnt matter to me for i find your whole personality laughable :imu:
SpotEnemyBoats
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I actually didn't like CoD that much, it wasn't very historically accurate imo. The weapons were arcadey, & not very realistic. NO ITALIANS, NO JAPANESE, NO CANADIANS, NO FRENCH, NO POLISH, NO FINNISH, NO HUN'S!!!!!!!!! WTF
I wanted to see some early/late war weapons like the:
The Vehicles of WW2:
Try out FH, where a World War II game is "Historically accurate".
http://forgottenhope.bf1942files.com/index.php
I apologize for going off-topic, I just wanted to get somethings stair here.
CoD isn't no FH
I wanted to see some early/late war weapons like the:
- Fallschirmjägergewehr 42(FG-42)
- Maschinengewehr 34 (MG34)
- Geballte Ladung
- nzerbüchse 35 (PzB35)
- Bündelladung
- M1 Garand Sniper
Thompson M1928A1 (Tommygun)
Boys Mk I AT Rifle
Degtyarev DP-1928
The Vehicles of WW2:
PzKpfw IV Ausf. F2
PzKpfw 747
IS-2 heavy tank
IS-3 heavy tank
King Tiger heavy tank
PzKpfw V "Panther" Ausf. G medium tank
Jagdpanther
Sturmpanzer IV "Brummbär"
StuG III Ausf. G
SdKfz 184 "Elefant/Ferdinand"
Jagdpanzer IV/70 (V)
- M4A3E2 Sherman Jumbo
M36 Jackson
M4A3 Sherman IV 105mm
Valentine Mk.III
Churchill IV
Cromwell Mk. IV
Sherman VC Firefly
T-34/85
T-34/76
KV-2
Try out FH, where a World War II game is "Historically accurate".
http://forgottenhope.bf1942files.com/index.php
I apologize for going off-topic, I just wanted to get somethings stair here.
CoD isn't no FH
Shift
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I actually didn't like CoD that much, it wasn't very historically accurate imo. The weapons were arcadey, & not very realistic. NO ITALIANS, NO JAPANESE, NO CANADIANS, NO FRENCH, NO POLISH, NO FINNISH, NO HUN'S!!!!!!!!! WTF
I wanted to see some early/late war weapons like the:
- Fallschirmjägergewehr 42(FG-42)
- Maschinengewehr 34 (MG34)
- Geballte Ladung
- nzerbüchse 35 (PzB35)
- Bündelladung
- M1 Garand Sniper
Thompson M1928A1 (Tommygun)
Boys Mk I AT Rifle
Degtyarev DP-1928
The Vehicles of WW2:
PzKpfw IV Ausf. F2
PzKpfw 747
IS-2 heavy tank
IS-3 heavy tank
King Tiger heavy tank
PzKpfw V "Panther" Ausf. G medium tank
Jagdpanther
Sturmpanzer IV "Brummbär"
StuG III Ausf. G
SdKfz 184 "Elefant/Ferdinand"
Jagdpanzer IV/70 (V)
- M4A3E2 Sherman Jumbo
M36 Jackson
M4A3 Sherman IV 105mm
Valentine Mk.III
Churchill IV
Cromwell Mk. IV
Sherman VC Firefly
T-34/85
T-34/76
KV-2
Try out FH, where a World War II game is "Historically accurate".
http://forgottenhope.bf1942files.com/index.php
I apologize for going off-topic, I just wanted to get somethings stair here.
CoD isn't no FH
Why would they go out of their time just to include every single piece of equipment used towards the end of the war, I am pretty sure in the scenerios that were played everything was historically accurate, yeah the guns do feel a bit acardey but its a game right, its a fast paced action game so it needs to be that way.
and eber, no it doesn't mean that their point of view is the ultimate truth, thats why its a point of view, its the OPINION of myself and the majority of Half-Life 2 players which was my point so really what you said was irrelevant. Oh and look up the word personality, I dont think you understand it, because I merely stating my point of view on a subject, my personality is not conveyed and is of no relevance in it:imu:
Wanted Bob
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I actually didn't like CoD that much, it wasn't very historically accurate imo. The weapons were arcadey, & not very realistic. NO ITALIANS, NO JAPANESE, NO CANADIANS, NO FRENCH, NO POLISH, NO FINNISH, NO HUN'S!!!!!!!!! WTF
I wanted to see some early/late war weapons like the:
- Fallschirmjägergewehr 42(FG-42)
- Maschinengewehr 34 (MG34)
- Geballte Ladung
- nzerbüchse 35 (PzB35)
- Bündelladung
- M1 Garand Sniper
Thompson M1928A1 (Tommygun)
Boys Mk I AT Rifle
Degtyarev DP-1928
The Vehicles of WW2:
PzKpfw IV Ausf. F2
PzKpfw 747
IS-2 heavy tank
IS-3 heavy tank
King Tiger heavy tank
PzKpfw V "Panther" Ausf. G medium tank
Jagdpanther
Sturmpanzer IV "Brummbär"
StuG III Ausf. G
SdKfz 184 "Elefant/Ferdinand"
Jagdpanzer IV/70 (V)
- M4A3E2 Sherman Jumbo
M36 Jackson
M4A3 Sherman IV 105mm
Valentine Mk.III
Churchill IV
Cromwell Mk. IV
Sherman VC Firefly
T-34/85
T-34/76
KV-2
Try out FH, where a World War II game is "Historically accurate".
http://forgottenhope.bf1942files.com/index.php
I apologize for going off-topic, I just wanted to get somethings stair here.
CoD isn't no FH
Nah, I don't like the idea of WWII weapons/vehicles in Half Life 2 Episode 2, there are way too many WWII shooters going around now. If any new weapons should be added, I reckon they need to be a bit on the wild side :rolling:
SpotEnemyBoats
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Because it makes the game more realistic, thats why it should've been implemented. It should be like how it is according to history, there is not such think as too much realism; There always room for more realism.
I was pissed when there was no King Tiger tank, the Allies feared that massive beast. The tank I saw in CoD2 was a pitiful Panzer II light tank.
Away from that, a WWII game needs not to be "arcadey" like that; If I wanted to play a arcadey WW2 FPS, I would play 'Medal of Honor: Allied Assault'. CoD was allright, it wasn't "OMFGZ this is great!!!!!!1111oneone "; There wasn't a wow factor, but it was decent.
Becides CoD2 was far too short for my taste,(EP1 thats different because I payed $20) but CoD2 was $50 & I expect more from that.
Where was Battle for the city of Berlin? Where was Battle of Britain? Where was El Alamien? Where was Tobruk? Where was Battle of the Bulge? Where was Omaha beach, Utah, Gold, & Juno beach? Where was Wake Island? Where was Midway? Where was Karkov? Where was Kursk? Where was Operation Barborosa? Where is Operation Market Garden? Where is Battle of Foy? What about Bocage?
There is alot missing in CoD. This is what you can get in FH mod.
I wasn't talking about Half-Life 2, sadly. I was talking about CoD 2.
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So you would like to have to stop to piss and eat stale bread every once in a while? And have to sit in trenches for in-game days? How about a big boot attacked to your PC that kicks you in the crotch when you get shot?
So you want ALL of World War 2 for £50? Jesus, the developers need to spend time and money on it, they can't just pop out gigantic games that cost insane amounts of money with no garantee of return, they need financial security.
SpotEnemyBoats
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Well there is mod that does that, its called Forgotten Hope. its adds 60+ new levels & 100 authentic WW2 weapons to the Game Battlefield 1942, & Forgotten Hope is coming to Battlefield 2 as well, using Bf2's graphics n' such; named FH-2.
It is possible
http://forgottenhope.bf1942files.com/index.php?flash=yes
sorry again for going off course.
Shift
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Battle of Berlin is done at the end of CoD, Battle of Britain was a fight between the RAF and the luffwaffe so i dont the games engine supports flying a plane, El Alamien is done, or a section of it, is done in CoD2, Tobruk I dont think is done yet, the battle of the bulge was done CoD: United Offensive, CoD couldn't do the assault on beachheads since it had already been done by two Medal of Honor games but the assault on Pointe Du Hoc in CoD2 was apart of the Gold beach assault I think, wake island and midway were apart of the pacific theatre of operations and CoD mainly sticks within Europe and Africa for the time being, not sure about Karkov, Kursk was done in CoD as apart of the tank driving missions, Barborosa would be a rubbish scenerio since the Germans pretty much walked over the Russians in that operation, Market Garden has already been done superbly on Medal of Honor: Allied Assault: Spearhead, battle of Foy is done on CoD: UO, battle of bocage was pretty much apart of first missions of the allies on CoD.
We did not see the King Tiger because hardly were made and historically they weren't there when we play the certain scenerios, either because it was too early in he war or we are towards the end of the war when German supplies were pretty much in tatters.
CoD is realistic in giving you a feel of what it was like to fight in World War 2, and I think it accomplishes this very well, making it incredibly realistic means substituting its primary gameplay focus which fast-paced adredaline rushing action, I still feel it does this and still acheived a good degree of realism.
Animontius
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OK, I'll freely admit, I didn't read this whole thread yet, because frankly its pretty big, so I don't know if this has already been mentioned or not, but I would love to see more threeway fighting like in the hospital chapter from episode one. Episode two definitely has the potential for this, seeing as the combine has lost its defenses and since the setting is in the wilderness anyway. Thats my two cents, and if it's been mentioned already, well, I'm just seconding it.
SpotEnemyBoats
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Meh, I wasn't too found of CoD2. It felt like I was playing MoH:AA imo
. It just didn't deliver, There was things missing. 50 & 30 round Tommy gun, DP-1928 Russian LMG, the rare Johnson LMG(that didn't see too much action), FG-42 I love that thing..so freakin' powerful, G43 sniper rifle, M1 Garand with Sniper scope, PPS-43.I think IW's CoD2 was only a hair more historically accurate than MoH:AA, I think they intended to make it balanced because the StG-44 didn't feel very powerful even though it fires 7.92x33mm it was more powerful than SMG rounds.
Well its hard to explain, but I will show you a familiar person who wasn't too happy with the CoD games; Someone that you & I both know from another forum, his name is: Pvt. Allen from halflife2files.com Gaming forums.
here is that post to try to interpret what I am trying to say, because I am studdering right now lol..well anyways here it is:
http://forums.filefront.com/showpost.php?p=3286373&postcount=15
Shift
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Uff cheap shot there when he said dont compare it to FH, well we have are own opinions, and personally thought CoD had an amazing singleplayer, I haven't felt so involved in a single player game as if I was there myself excluding Half-Life 2, sure it isn't 100% realistic and there are weapons, vehicles and various equipment that have not been included, but the game is big enough as it is and Im pretty sure in the scenerios we play, its accurate to a large degree. Plus CoD contained one of the one the most popular multiplayers, especially the rifle only scene and at a time had a very large clanning community centralized around each other to which I was apart of until I no more free time for clans, plus it was the 2003 Game of the Year and has won over awards. Plus I found the hardest difficulty it contains to be harder than any other game, I couldn't even complete the first level on it, and had an extremely hard time on quite a few levels with the difficulty before the hardest. Its my opinion on the game but i think you are critizing it over small issues, I think the pro's of this game far surpass the cons.
