"Episode 3 is hard to make; let's make L4D2"

Darkside55

Darkside55

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There's a thread going on about L4D2 vs. HL2: Ep3, but I figure this news warrants its own thread:

Valve's Doug Lombardi says that the company decided to make Left 4 Dead 2 rather than Half-Life 2 because, among other reasons, it's actually simpler to develop.
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Doug Lombardi said:
I mean, we tried [Half-life 2] with episodes, we said we were gong to go smaller, and we were going to get quicker, and we got a little bit quicker, but we didn't get that much quicker.

...

And with Left 4 Dead 2, with the AI Director, a lot of that is handed over to the controls, and then you can say, 'Okay, we can just start building new content now, checking it in and start play-testing immediately'.
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More here. The interview was by G4 during Comic-Con. No other mention of HL2: Ep3 at all.
 
Wow that's some seriously shit reporting :LOL:

Edit: though thinking about it maybe it lends a tiny bit more credence to the idea of a modified AID in Ep3.
Oh and I have only one post less than you right now darkside, woooo spooky and stuff
 
Considering how Doug was talking about how much it takes to fine-tune everything for Episode 3 I think it actually takes away from the 'AID in Ep3' idea. He makes it sound unfeasible for them to randomize things.
 
Yes, this is just what we need, everyone on this board bitching at eachother over who's game is ruining who's...
 
Darkside55 said:
Considering how Doug was talking about how much it takes to fine-tune everything for Episode 3 I think it actually takes away from the 'AID in Ep3' idea. He makes it sound unfeasible for them to randomize things.
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Well as was discussed in the other thread there could be ways to combine the two approaches nicely.
 
I think its kinda daft making a Left 4 Dead 2 when the first is still in its prime imo, its turning into the CoD franchise. Also confirms another 20 years before EP3 is finally released.
 
It is worth pointing out that they have said before about 45 people of the 200 odd employees at Valve work on Left 4 Dead, now thats not to say that everyone else works on Half-Life, I mean they have a small TF2 team still plugging away on content, and steam is a big part of their buissness now, but he does not say "We stopped half-life to make L4D2" he says its simpler to make content for L4D at a faster rate than what they originaly hoped for with the episodes.

I find it interesting that whenever they are asked about Episode 3 they say somthing like "Half-Life is not over" or "Freemans journey isnt over" they are very keen not to address the name Episode 3 directly. I would not be surprised if Episode 3 doesnt happen, but we get a new Half-Life game that continues the story from Episode 2, but in the traditional sense of being a major title release rather than an Episode.

They may see their new multiplayer release schedules in TF2 and L4D/L4D2 as better examples of releasing content faster, rather than using their singleplayer franchise to do it. I mean the original idea behind episodes was to avoid a 5 year gap between games, like with the silence between Half-Life 1 and Half-Life 2. But if they can stay in touch with the community via Multiplayer content, then it allows them to sit back and make the big releases with their singleplayer games.
 
Lobster said:
I find it interesting that whenever they are asked about Episode 3 they say somthing like "Half-Life is not over" or "Freemans journey isnt over" they are very keen not to address the name Episode 3 directly. I would not be surprised if Episode 3 doesnt happen, but we get a new Half-Life game that continues the story from Episode 2, but in the traditional sense of being a major title release rather than an Episode.
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I agree with everything else you said in your post, but I wanted to point out that they have been giving us some information about Episode Three; I can't remember who said this from VALVe Corporation, probably Gabe Newell, but someone said in an interview that Episode Three was going nicely. I can't remember the exact interview though, but I still remember those words. Also, I can't see Episode Three being made into a major title release for some reason; I think if VALVe ever decides to continue the Half-Life franchise after Episode Three, then "Half-Life 3" would be the major title release.
 
swan_song1973 said:
valve is lazy. plain and simple.
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Valve?

No no, not yet. Unless they're consumed by EA. Valve works like Blizzard, they focus on quality and take their time doing it and only announces anything "when it is ready".

If Valve is considered lazy, I don't know what EA is. I'm assuming you've never heard of EA's hostile takeovers or licensing whenever they're threatened? They don't win by being better, they beat you up if you're better. EA steals from consumers, charging every single thing they can milk out of. If a content was fun this time, they'll take it out next time and make you pay additional to have it. This is also a major reason why Blizzard merged with Activision, in order to take down the evil empire and to protect themselves. Valve is vulnerable to EA right now unfortunately, and Valve is a major threat to EA. If Valve is ever consumed by EA, then your statement is 100% correct.

Anyways, sounds to me like the Half Life team is stuck. I guess whenever you're stuck on something, you do something else first. I'm not surprised they're stuck. Afterall, so many questions have built up from Half Life till now, not to mention the addition of portal.
 
flamingdts said:
Valve?

This is also a major reason why Blizzard merged with Activision, in order to take down the evil empire and to protect themselves. Valve is vulnerable to EA right now unfortunately, and Valve is a major threat to EA. If Valve is ever consumed by EA, then your statement is 100% correct.
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Activision are just as bad as EA. Ripping of customers with extortionate prices they set the price of Modern Warfare 2 at £55. Activision are exactly like EA as soon as they see something is popular they hike up the prices and they are also guilty of milking their franchises such as Guitar Heroes. EA is not a threat to Valve and Valve are not a threat to EA. EA's success comes from licensing, only EA can get away with releasing a new football game every year with minimal changes and sell millions and only EA can get away with releasing cut content from The Sims 3 on the store and ridicules prices. Valve games are in a different market to EA's and even then EA get's a slice as they publish the retail version and even build the PS3 versions. Valve will never be consumed, they make more than enough to fund their games, Steam has proven to be a very valuable asset and Valve have no shareholders. Gabe owns Valve and he's in it to make good games not profit, he dug into it own money to fund Half-Life and even Half-Life 2.
 
PimpinPenguin said:
Activision are just as bad as EA. Ripping of customers with extortionate prices they set the price of Modern Warfare 2 at £55. Activision are exactly like EA as soon as they see something is popular they hike up the prices and they are also guilty of milking their franchises such as Guitar Heroes. EA is not a threat to Valve and Valve are not a threat to EA. EA's success comes from licensing, only EA can get away with releasing a new football game every year with minimal changes and sell millions and only EA can get away with releasing cut content from The Sims 3 on the store and ridicules prices. Valve games are in a different market to EA's and even then EA get's a slice as they publish the retail version and even build the PS3 versions. Valve will never be consumed, they make more than enough to fund their games, Steam has proven to be a very valuable asset and Valve have no shareholders. Gabe owns Valve and he's in it to make good games not profit, he dug into it own money to fund Half-Life and even Half-Life 2.
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Well as long as Valve is immune to EA's hostile takeovers (like what they did to other developers), I'm happy.

I agree with you on the activision bit. I hate Call of Duty. Only idiots will release a new game every year when the previous one was a major hit and still being played. That being said, this is why Blizzard and Activision are still pretty much seperate. They publish their games with their own name (Blizzard, not activision blizzard. Not too sure about activision though) and their logo is still just Blizzard Entertainment. In fact, Activision won't be telling Blizzard to run their games anytime soon, especially not with the amount of money Blizzard makes with one game alone, and the upcoming games Blizzard has.

If it is true that Valve is safe from EA's takeover strategies, then I'm relieved. However, Valve is and always will be a threat to EA. Every game company is a threat to another, and EA's downfall is only the beginning. All the big name games are coming out in the next couple of years (Assassin's creed 2, Diablo 3, Starcraft II, Half Life Ep 3) and it is only natural if EA gets a major drop in profits because Episode 3 or Portal 2 was released.

By the way, shame on Gabe for praising EA :hmph:.
 
They're Valve's distributor.
 
Played left 4 dead 2 at comic con (review in the left 4 dead 2 section of this forum).


Doug Lombardi stayed around for like 30 seconds, and left us with some young valve rookies.

When I asked them what's up with Half-life 2: Episode 3, they looked like I had just murdered a puppy.

"We're not talking about episode 3 here" is the quote I got. It sounded like a recording.

Meh. I tried.
 
JCLFJanet said:
Played left 4 dead 2 at comic con (review in the left 4 dead 2 section of this forum).


Doug Lombardi stayed around for like 30 seconds, and left us with some young valve rookies.

When I asked them what's up with Half-life 2: Episode 3, they looked like I had just murdered a puppy.

"We're not talking about episode 3 here" is the quote I got. It sounded like a recording.

Meh. I tried.
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LOL. thats not a good sign.

Anyone else got some experiences from comic con?
 
JCLFJanet said:
When I asked them what's up with Half-life 2: Episode 3, they looked like I had just murdered a puppy.
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Valve offices, prior to Comic-Con 2009

Gabe Newell: "For every intern who lets slip news of Episode 3, I WILL BUY THEM A PUPPY AND THEN EAT IT."
 
Gotta love the mentality of "Oh, they are making l4d2? oh, that means no EP3... because valve simply cant work on more than one game at once... tis not possible..."
 
*claps ever so slowly*

Well ain't this ****ing peachy? I'll say it is far from being lazyness, its more along the lines of putting HL2: Ep3 to the side (well, for the moment anyway). Personally in my opinion, they are putting aside the franchise on what made them great. With this quote from Doug Lombardi, they are more concentrated with the L4D franchise... being that it is casual friendly for the most part. With Half-Life, not as many people play it... despite it being on the consoles. That is the reality.
 
Fiberawptic said:
Gotta love the mentality of "Oh, they are making l4d2? oh, that means no EP3... because valve simply cant work on more than one game at once... tis not possible..."
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Bacons said:
*claps ever so slowly*

Well ain't this ****ing peachy? I'll say it is far from being lazyness, its more along the lines of putting HL2: Ep3 to the side (well, for the moment anyway). Personally in my opinion, they are putting aside the franchise on what made them great. With this quote from Doug Lombardi, they are more concentrated with the L4D franchise... being that it is casual friendly for the most part. With Half-Life, not as many people play it... despite it being on the consoles. That is the reality.
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I agree with Fiberawptic completely.
 
Can anyone think of a realistic reason why they would be so silent about Ep 3, apart from the likely fact that they're just not working on it?
 
pomegranate said:
Can anyone think of a realistic reason why they would be so silent about Ep 3, apart from the likely fact that they're just not working on it?
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Maybe because it's the finale to the Half-Life 2 story arc they want it to be a surprise. Don't forget that EP1 and EP2 trailers both were wrong and had loads of stuff that were cut.
Valve have a lot of pressure with EP3 as it has go to live up to all build up from the prevoius games.
I think Valve are working on it and are making good progress as Gabe almost spilt the beans by thinking he was there to speak about L4D2 and EP3 at an interview before Doug corrected him. I'm sure that L4D2 may have taken focus in the mean time but's that's only because it's almost ready to ship and Valve always focus there attention onto the game that ready to go.
L4D is popular but i can't see L4D2 doing better than EP3.
 
Fiberawptic said:
Gotta love the mentality of "Oh, they are making l4d2? oh, that means no EP3... because valve simply cant work on more than one game at once... tis not possible..."
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That and the idea that because Valve are entirely unwilling to discuss Half-Life 2: Episode Three at organised press-events for a completely unrelated game, that it must have been cut adrift and forgotten about. Especially in JCLFJanet's case. How unoriginal must that question have sounded at comic-con, when the entire gaming press and every looker on was asking the exact same question at E3?

The thread title is a pretty reductive view of the situation. Yes, we're getting Left 4 Dead 2 first because Half-Life 2: Episode Three is a tougher title to make, but there is no suggestion that both aren't being tackled at the same time.
 
pomegranate said:
Can anyone think of a realistic reason why they would be so silent about Ep 3, apart from the likely fact that they're just not working on it?
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Valve has always been like this not telling you or the media the full aspects of the game. nothing has changed but the fans. I visit many sites and the forums have the same topics and the steam forums have threads like this on a daily basis. We gamers expect to be told what is going on when we put time and energy into a developer. After L4D2 valve has to make something right. They will not just sit around and get bored. So they will talk about the next game they will be making or they will discuss HL2 Ep 3. Enjoy the rest of your time till Nov 17 and play L4D2 cause many will. This boycott crap is just a fad.
 
pomegranate said:
Can anyone think of a realistic reason why they would be so silent about Ep 3, apart from the likely fact that they're just not working on it?
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Hmm, I don't know. Maybe because they're busily promoting L4D2 perhaps?
 
Pomegranate]Can anyone think of a realistic reason why they would be so silent about Ep 3[/quote] [QUOTE=Pi Mu Rho said:
Maybe because they're busily promoting L4D2 perhaps?
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Oh. OH. I GET IT. I get it, Valve! It was right there all along!

Look, they can't talk about Episode 3, right? Because it's the last part of this arc, because they don't want to reveal anything only to have it cut, because delays, right? It's really hard to hype a game you can't talk about. So how do you keep interest going?

YOU MAKE A SEQUEL THAT GENERATES CONTROVERSY AND HAS PEOPLE QUESTION "WHERE IS EPISODE 3?"

L4D2 is nothing more than a ploy to keep people hyped for Episode 3.

Valve are marketing geniuses.
 
Because as everyone remembers, we all received press bundles detailing Half-Life 2's development progress mailed directly to our doors from November 1998 through April 2003. Also, Gabe Newell himself flew to my house to show me in progress builds of Team Fortress 2 every Easter Monday for the best part of a decade of development.

There has been a clear and apparent drop in standards.
 
BlueWolf72 said:
Valve has always been like this not telling you or the media the full aspects of the game. nothing has changed but the fans. I visit many sites and the forums have the same topics and the steam forums have threads like this on a daily basis. We gamers expect to be told what is going on when we put time and energy into a developer. After L4D2 valve has to make something right. They will not just sit around and get bored. So they will talk about the next game they will be making or they will discuss HL2 Ep 3. Enjoy the rest of your time till Nov 17 and play L4D2 cause many will. This boycott crap is just a fad.
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Stop talking about the boycott, Jesus.
 
pomegranate said:
That's not a reason not to release any details about Ep 3 for over a year, so my question remains valid.
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Not really. They've never been big on releasing any details until they're ready to, for which there is lots of precedent. Couple that with the fact that they're marketing L4D2's (fairly) imminent release and it seems to explain it quite well.
 
Pi Mu Rho said:
Not really. They've never been big on releasing any details until they're ready to, for which there is lots of precedent.
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That's true to an extent, but compare to the release timeline and the amount of media and info that came out for Ep 1 and Ep 2, it's quite different this time. All we've had in two years have been a couple of concept pics, that's a big drop-off in comparison. Makes me think something is up besides secrecy.

Eh, it's just a thought.
 
I still think they're working on some feature which is obscenely buggy and hard to show off.

Likely it's just wishful thinking though.
 
Have you guys heard about this perhaps deaf character they might be implementing lol Heard it on the Steamcast.
 
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